Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Enzokk

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Brexit secretary claims EU will start trade talks very quickly after no-deal because of UK's 'size and importance'


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/no-deal-brexit-eu-trade-talks-stephen-barclay-a9008136.html

Here is a link to the evidence he was giving in that story if anyone is interested.

Parliament TV link


I don't know what the purpose of this hustings is. Surely most of the Conservative Party members have voted already so both can say what they want as it will not matter much. Either way I haven't really seen any evidence that Hunt was making any ground on Johnson and his performance has not been great to move the momentum in his direction.

Foghladh

Gerry T wrote: »

Now back to the election of the next UK prime minister, a vote of the people, well 260,000 of them anyway, a true democracy.

Well to be fair the current Taoiseach received the direct mandate of about 3700 people, being Fine Gael members.

Tell me how

Enzokk wrote: »

Here is a link to the evidence he was giving in that story if anyone is interested.

Parliament TV link


I don't know what the purpose of this hustings is. Surely most of the Conservative Party members have voted already so both can say what they want as it will not matter much. Either way I haven't really seen any evidence that Hunt was making any ground on Johnson and his performance has not been great to move the momentum in his direction.

The only purpose all the hustings have served to do is to highlight the lack of knowledge/strategy Johnson and Hunt have. I know they have to have their process but given the gap at the outset, the 3 weeks of Johnson being found to only be interested in saying anything which will get him through an interview and Hunt to wax lyric knowing it doesn't matter a whit has been damaging to the UK.

All this after the EU granted the last extension saying it was not to be wasted. You could be forgiven for thinking that the Tories did this just to give 2 fingers to the EU.

And in the meantime, Labour are trying to steal the headlines with their anti-semitism are they/aren't they shenanigans.
If I worked for a company whose management behaved like this, I'd have handed in my notice.

Joe_ Public

Hunts coming across as a right try-hard tonight, but he really is a dull, dull man whose only strategy now is to play his way onto Johnson's A team.

BluePlanet

Government opposes moves to end seasonal clock changes for Ireland

Mr Flanagan said the principal reason for not supporting the change was the situation that would arise after Brexit where the UK, including Northern Ireland, would be in a different time zone for seven months of the year.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-opposes-moves-to-end-seasonal-clock-changes-for-ireland-1.3959638

Oh ok, so in this case we allow the UK to cause us to drift from EU harmonization.

Capt'n Midnight

MrMusician18 wrote: »

That is all conjecture on behalf of person quoted. No evidence is offered. The fall in house prices could also be attributed to a slowing global economy either as the business cycle ends.

Every bad news story cannot be pinned on Brexit, at least not without evidence. In fact this fall in process should've been seen earlier as Brexit was already meant to have happened.

Houses don't change hands overnight , especially if there's a Chain involved.

It's London. House prices in most other UK regions went up by 3% in comparison.

And the biggest fall in London was for detached houses so more likely to be at the richer end.

This is made up of the 6.1% fall for detached homes, as well as drops of 5% for flats and maisonettes, 4% for semi-detached houses, and 2.9% for terraced homes.

gimli2112

BluePlanet wrote: »

Government opposes moves to end seasonal clock changes for Ireland

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-opposes-moves-to-end-seasonal-clock-changes-for-ireland-1.3959638

Oh ok, so in this case we allow the UK to cause us to drift from EU harmonization.

I find it really difficult to believe that almost 70% of those surveyed favour the switch but not if it puts us an hour ahead of the UK. That has little relevance for most of the country.

BluePlanet

gimli2112 wrote: »

I find it really difficult to believe that almost 70% of those surveyed favour the switch but not if it puts us an hour ahead of the UK. That has little relevance for most of the country.

I interpreted that as 70% support the switch, however the government are over-ruling anyway due to Brexit.

Irish Praetorian

BluePlanet wrote: »

Government opposes moves to end seasonal clock changes for Ireland

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-opposes-moves-to-end-seasonal-clock-changes-for-ireland-1.3959638

Oh ok, so in this case we allow the UK to cause us to drift from EU harmonization.

I think its a reasonable enough move to try and avoid having a different time for seven months of the year between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

One might hope that more eagle eyed Brexiteer might be able to appreciate the motives in a smaller nation having to cut its coat by its cloth when it comes to policy decisions made by the economic giant next door, but that might be too optimistic of me.

Joe_ Public

In other news an amendment on the Northern Ireland executive bill was debated and passed in the Lords today by 272 to 169. Crucially, this rules out any PM being able to prorogue parliament as it ensures there will have to be sitting days in order for the Commons to debate legislation relating to the bill (something like that anyway!) Seems to suggest there were 169 peers of the realm quite ok with the idea of prorogation, but not entirely certain it was as simple as that.

Capt'n Midnight

irishash wrote: »

Sterling has lost value to all other major traded currencies in the last year.

Not according to BBC news. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49015116

The Post Office says it has seen a surge in sales of Turkish lira, which has been hit by political turmoil.

Compared to last summer, the pound is up around 14% against the lira. Iceland is also better value than last year, the pound is up 12% against the Icelandic krona.

Iceland is better value ?

Not unless all their prices stayed the same which sounds unlikely for an island nation that imports lots of stuff.

Harry Palmr

The invention of Boris Johnson on Channel 4 is full confirmation of what we know or suspect. An opportunist blank canvas upon which the beguiled cast thier dreams. What is clear is that he is not ideologically against the EU at all but scepticism is the way to power.

Foghladh

marno21 wrote: »

With that level of unfounded arrogance you would depressingly accept the relatively high chance of no deal happening. Comical stuff.

What exactly was arrogant about it?

brickster69

Foghladh wrote: »

Well to be fair the current Taoiseach received the direct mandate of about 3700 people, being Fine Gael members.

How many candidates were in that race? Don't say one. :eek:

BonnieSituation

Foghladh wrote: »

Well to be fair the current Taoiseach received the direct mandate of about 3700 people, being Fine Gael members.

Eh...

That was to become FG leader.

The Taoiseach is elected by the Dáil.

This is nothing like that situation!

Foghladh

brickster69 wrote: »

How many candidates were in that race? Don't say one. :eek:

I believe it was two in that particular race and the winner didn't even win the popular vote. My point is that we tend to criticise the UK system but fail to recognise that our own is similar. The leader of the party in power is the Head of Government, usually, if they receive the backing in parliament. If elected Johnsons mandate would be no less than Varadkars

BonnieSituation

Foghladh wrote: »

I believe it was two in that particular race and the winner didn't even win the popular vote. My point is that we tend to criticise the UK system but fail to recognise that our own is similar. The leader of the party in power is the Head of Government, usually, if they receive the backing in parliament. If elected Johnsons mandate would be no less than Varadkars

It would be exactly less!

The Dáil elected the Taoiseach who receives his seal of office from our elected President.

In the case of the UK it's just a nod and a wink from the outgoing PM to a hereditary monarch as to who the outgoing PM thinks might have a command of parliament.

If the HOC even voted for the PM after they are nominated, you may have an iota of a point. But they don't, so you don't.

The UK system deserves all the criticism it gets.

Professor Moriarty

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It would be exactly less!

The Dáil elected the Taoiseach who receives his seal of office from our elected President.

In the case of the UK it's just a nod and a wink from the outgoing PM to a hereditary monarch.

The UK system deserves all the criticism it gets.

FPTP. Enough said.

trellheim

In the case of the UK it's just a nod and a wink from the outgoing PM to a hereditary monarch.

The UK system deserves all the criticism it gets.

The opposition can run a vote of confidence at any time in the PM or the Government and you will see the majority of the elected MPs vote for the PM.... or not as the case may be

BonnieSituation

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

FPTP. Enough said.

We're talking about what happens after the anachronism of FPTP.

God the Brits love anachronistic procedures.

BonnieSituation

trellheim wrote: »

The opposition can run a vote of confidence at any time in the PM or the Government and you will see the majority of the elected MPs vote for the PM.... or not as the case may be

We can do that here too. I don't get your point.

But the Taoiseach is still elected by the Dáil.

The PM is assumed to have a majority/command. They are not similar. Maybe after an election you could argue it, but not now, when you're on a bare majority during a crisis!

BluePlanet

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

I think its a reasonable enough move to try and avoid having a different time for seven months of the year between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

One might hope that more eagle eyed Brexiteer might be able to appreciate the motives in a smaller nation having to cut its coat by its cloth when it comes to policy decisions made by the economic giant next door, but that might be too optimistic of me.

Why wouldn't it be the other way around?
By harmonizing with Europe the size of the Republic vs NI will force NI to sync wit us?

Professor Moriarty

BonnieSituation wrote: »

We're talking about what happens after the anachronism of FPTP.

God the Brits love anachronistic procedures.

If they had PR they wouldn't have a Tory government or a Johnson PM. They wouldn't have had a Brexit referendum either. Everything stems from FPTP.

Kermit.de.frog

I'm increasingly coming to the view that a no deal is inevitable.

Neither of the leadership candidates will now be able to row back on comments they have made on the border in recent days.

They want the backstop gone and that's that.

BonnieSituation

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm increasingly coming to the view that a no deal is inevitable.

Neither of the leadership candidates will now be able to row back on comments they have made on the border in recent days.

They want the backstop gone and that's that.

And where does Ireland come in? That's usually the follow up from your good self?

Professor Moriarty

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm increasingly coming to the view that a no deal is inevitable.

Neither of the leadership candidates will now be able to row back on comments they have made on the border in recent days.

They want the backstop gone and that's that.

It's only a straw in the wind, but the odds on No Deal haven't changed for weeks despite the rhetoric.

Foghladh

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It would be exactly less!

The Dáil elected the Taoiseach who receives his seal of office from our elected President.

In the case of the UK it's just a nod and a wink from the outgoing PM to a hereditary monarch as to who the outgoing PM thinks might have a command of parliament.

If the HOC even voted for the PM after they are nominated, you may have an iota of a point. But they don't, so you don't.

The UK system deserves all the criticism it gets.

I don't think it works that way. If the person nominated doesn't have the confidence of the House they can be voted out pretty swiftly. If the nominated person has the parliamentary support they will retain the position. No different to the Irish situation. Varadkar won his appointment with 57 out of 163 in the Dail. Does this invalidate his position?

LeinsterDub

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm increasingly coming to the view that a no deal is inevitable.

Neither of the leadership candidates will now be able to row back on comments they have made on the border in recent days.

They want the backstop gone and that's that.

And how do you think this happens? There is no majority in parliament for it. A general election is the most likely outcome in my opinion

coastwatch

LeinsterDub wrote: »

And how do you think this happens? There is no majority in parliament for it. A general election is the most likely outcome in my opinion

Possibly, but based on current sentiment, a general election, followed by a No Deal.

Professor Moriarty

coastwatch wrote: »

Possibly, but based on current sentiment, a general election, followed by a No Deal.

If Corbyn is still in situ, I reckon you're right.