Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Shelga

Gintonious wrote: »

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/brexit-caller-james-obrien-fish-and-chips/

I usually like listening to James O'Brien, but this is one really hard listen.

It probably sums up so many people that voted to leave, but the helpless nature that he tired to reason with her...god bless.

I don’t feel sorry for her. People owe it to themselves and others to educate themselves properly about what this means.

I don’t feel sorry for people who would rather the UK economy tanks than admit they were wrong.

I don’t feel sorry for people who wash their hands of what the Leave vote is going to do to the island of Ireland.

I don’t feel sorry for people who feel no guilt about inflicting this lunacy on small business owners, whose companies will fold.

I don’t feel sorry for people who blame all of their problems on immigration.

At this stage I really couldn’t care less what happens to Christine and her type. I feel sorry for people who voted Remain or people who voted Leave and regret it. I don’t care about Christine. I care about minimising the damage to Ireland, a country that had no say in this mess whatsoever.

Stop moaning ffs

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Good point. They will definitely try to use that to scare them but I doubt even that will work at this stage. Could be close enough if it came down to it probably.

Someone today in the independent saying the choice is between Johnson’s delusions and a Corbyn government.

They actually are more in fear of Corbyn and labour taking over than a no deal.

The whole country is being held ransom to ongoing fear nonsense than reality.

A Shropshire Lad

For those who are adament that nothing can stop a no-deal Brexit:

'MPs have easily passed a backbench amendment seeking to block any attempt by a future government to prorogue parliament to ensure a no-deal Brexit, in what is likely to be seen as a pre-emptive strike against Boris Johnson’s authority.

The amendment, tabled by a cross-party group led by Labour’s Hilary Benn and the Conservatives’ Alistair Burt, passed by an unexpectedly large margin of 41 votes, with 315 MPs backing it and 274 opposed'

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/18/mps-pass-amendment-seeking-to-thwart-no-deal-prorogation

Nody

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

For those who are adament that nothing can stop a no-deal Brexit:

'MPs have easily passed a backbench amendment seeking to block any attempt by a future government to prorogue parliament to ensure a no-deal Brexit, in what is likely to be seen as a pre-emptive strike against Boris Johnson’s authority.

The amendment, tabled by a cross-party group led by Labour’s Hilary Benn and the Conservatives’ Alistair Burt, passed by an unexpectedly large margin of 41 votes, with 315 MPs backing it and 274 opposed'

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/18/mps-pass-amendment-seeking-to-thwart-no-deal-prorogation

And it still does not stop Brexit; Brexit happens automatically 31st Oct. unless UK government somehow asks for an extension and gives a good enough reason for EU to accept it.

FrancieBrady

Nody wrote: »

And it still does not stop Brexit; Brexit happens automatically 31st Oct. unless UK government somehow asks for an extension and gives a good enough reason for EU to accept it.

Exactly, they can faff about with voting for whatever they want...but unless they present something it is No Deal by default.
The EU could finish this now by refusing an extension. Parliament would either have to vote for the deal or suspend Art 50/revoke the whole shambles.

Joe_ Public

The surest bet of stopping no deal is convincing the new PM that he will be taken down if he persists in ticking the clock down to halloween. The numbers would appear to be there to achieve that. Reality is setting in, the bluff and bluster is wearing thinner and thinner by the day.

Larbre34

Parliament stopping the proroguing of Parliament and Parliament actively stopping a no-deal Brexit (either by the Government of the day or by default) are entirely separate and distinct exercises.

Joe_ Public

Larbre34 wrote: »

Parliament stopping the proroguing of Parliament and Parliament actively stopping a no-deal Brexit (either by the Government of the day or by default) are entirely separate and distinct exercises.

Technically, but the point of one is that it hopefully leads to the other so there is a clear link. Not every MP who broke ranks and voted for the amendment today will necessarily vote to stop a no deal exit or to take down their PM in a vote of confidence but i would be quite confident enough of them would. Only need a handful anyway.

Joe_ Public

This Panorama doc is very good. Phillip Hammond says, and i paraphrase, "with the benefit of hindsight i think it would have been better if we had a plan before we triggered A50". I know its all old news at this stage, but it's still quite shocking to hear how they played it. The ineptness is so staggering, it's hard to comprehend.

Leroy42

He shouldn't need the benefit of hindsight.

That is an extraordinary admission for the Chancellor, and should see TM lambasted for ever more.

Beechwoodspark

Timmermans is taking no prisoners. He’s one step away from laughing.

Says the Uk approach was akin to sitcom dads army “don’t panic don’t panic”

Call me Al

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Timmermans is taking no prisoners. He’s one step away from laughing.

Says the Uk approach was akin to sitcom dads army “don’t panic don’t panic”

I must admit the candour is refreshing.
And its quite reassuring to see the strength of conviction and unity they have.
As for David Davis, well there are no words really.

Joe_ Public

Leroy42 wrote: »

He shouldn't need the benefit of hindsight.

That is an extraordinary admission for the Chancellor, and should see TM lambasted for ever more.

I'm sure it was said at the time, how ludicrous they were being to trigger A50 without any clear notion of where they were going, other than "brexit means brexit". They were so locked into the "easiest trade deals ever" and "just get it done" mentality that they proceeded with this extraordinary complacency and arrogance. Remember, at one of their first informal gatherings, May spoke about sorting out the specifics of a free trade deal BEFORE they had even mentioned the divorce. It was incompetence of spectacular proportions.

Beechwoodspark

David Davis is his usual underwhelming blustering self.

He comes across as a dim, conceited and very lazy politician.

Beechwoodspark

Rabb amazed that the EU didn’t swallow his rubbish ! Going on about how it could be win win.

Rabb and his type still don’t realise they are very much the weaker partner in this negotiation.

Call me Al

I dont know if I'm on my own here but I cringe everytime I hear that 'bloody difficult woman" line trotted out.
Speak with some value, gravitas, and relevance if you want to be taken seriously. Scowling at the camera doesn't equate with those things and never will.

Call me Al

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Rabb amazed that the EU didn’t swallow his rubbish ! Going on about how it could be win win.

Rabb and his type still don’t realise they are very much the weaker partner in this negotiation.

Oh I think he is fully aware of exactly where they stand right now.
I feel that the bluster they come out with these days is for domestic consumption at this point.

FrancieBrady

Anyone know how soon Panorama goes up on the iPlayer...missed it.

Beechwoodspark

It’s like these ppl think the EU is not aware of what has been said and done in UK politics over the last few years.

Mr.Nice Guy

Amazed that Davis still thinks that the UK could have got its way if it had only been "confident" enough to threaten No Deal. You don't need to bluff if you have a strong hand. The strategy which he laments wasn't used was one of weakness.

Beechwoodspark

Davis thinks swagger and bullsh1t would have worked...

They believe to their core that they can “get one over” the continentals

Mr.Nice Guy

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Davis thinks swagger and bullsh1t would have worked...

They believe to their core that they can “get one over” the continentals

Yeah we saw that in the documentary about having Barnier sit in that old chair in London. Davis memorised his lines whereas Barnier read from his papers. They thought this made Davis look the more accomplished performer. All about style over substance.

In reality Barnier is ten times the operator Davis is and you get the feeling watching that documentary that deep down Davis knows it.

Nody

Joe_ Public wrote: »

The surest bet of stopping no deal is convincing the new PM that he will be taken down if he persists in ticking the clock down to halloween. The numbers would appear to be there to achieve that. Reality is setting in, the bluff and bluster is wearing thinner and thinner by the day.

But here's the counterpoint to that; if he fails to deliver Brexit there are several Tories ready to back stab him for the PM position as the party members who will vote would make Farage blush in joy. Hence fail to deliver Brexit and a party member back stabs you and promise to deliver Brexit and the voter base will lick it up; or deliver Brexit and hope you can BS your way through it. First scenario is pretty much a 100% likelihood; the second one has that sliver of chance to succeed...

trashcan

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Timmermans is taking no prisoners. He’s one step away from laughing.

Says the Uk approach was akin to sitcom dads army “don’t panic don’t panic”

Indeed, not to mention of course "They don't like it up em"

On a separate note, will Boris's "Kippergate" moment last night have any impact, or are people just so immune to him talking rubbish at this point that it doesn't even matter anymore ?

boggerman1

David Davis just comes across as Swiss Tony from the fast show.timmermans can spot a bull**** merchant a mile off in Johnson.

First Up

trashcan wrote:

On a separate note, will Boris's "Kippergate" moment last night have any impact, or are people just so immune to him talking rubbish at this point that it doesn't even matter anymore ?

The fact that the front runner for PM - who has based his entire strategy on Brexit - could make such a blunder tells you all you need to know about the state of the Tory party. Not only was he able to make this hilarious mistake, there was nobody advising him who knew enough to know that he had it ars*ways.

And yet there are saps who believe this idiot can rescue the UK from a disaster created by people just like him.

Water John

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Someone today in the independent saying the choice is between Johnson’s delusions and a Corbyn government.

They actually are more in fear of Corbyn and labour taking over than a no deal.

The whole country is being held ransom to ongoing fear nonsense than reality.

Grieve making it quite clear that they will bring down the Govn't if Johnson tries to take UK out with No Deal.

Tell me how

Water John wrote: »

Grieve making it quite clear that they will bring down the Govn't if Johnson tries to take UK out with No Deal.

Could we see a GE fought via some sort of a Brexit Party/Tory 'Alliance' versus Greens/Lib Dems and the 64k dollar question..... where do Labour position themselves?

Shelga

Just catching up with the Panorama programme now. My god, David Davis is a complete embarrassment to his nation.

He sits there chuckling away nostalgically, when he should be utterly ashamed of his role in all of this, and the humiliation he brought upon the UK.

Headshot

Tell me how wrote: »

Could we see a GE fought via some sort of a Brexit Party/Tory 'Alliance' versus Greens/Lib Dems and the 64k dollar question..... where do Labour position themselves?

You would expect Labour to be in the Greens/Lib Dems coalition, specially as most of Labour party members want to say in Europe.

I'm currently watching Britains Brexit Crisis, it's a fascinating watch. I hatred for Brexiters such as Raab continue to grow though, the man is up there with Boris in talking out of his ass.

I wonder though should've May threaten to call another GE when Foster and her cohorts said No to the backstop, it could of been the perfect opportunity to force the DUP to stand down.

You could say the DUP are the main reason why England are still in Europe which in itself is quite funny