Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

20silkcut

Strazdas wrote: »

It's very possible that Johnson doesn't even give a toss about Brexit and wouldn't even care if it was cancelled. If that is the case, the Brexiteers would be mortified.....they probably think from his rhetoric he is an ideological EU hating nut like they are.

Boris is definitely not an idealist that’s for sure.

Shelga

Shelga wrote: »

How can the Brexit Party enter into any kind of coalition with the Tories, they have no MPs!

There is always the possibility of a by election due to an MP dying or resigning somewhere in the UK, Brexiteer Conservative could be supported by Brexit party supporters in the campaign.

J Mysterio

Enzokk wrote: »

Another Vote Leave appointment to take note of. I suspect nothing will happen with the investigations as those at the heart of it is now in charge of the country. Let the UK never laugh at another countries corruption when it is so open in front of them.

https://twitter.com/shahmiruk/status/1154370540502691841?s=20

https://twitter.com/shahmiruk/status/1154371914808406016?s=20

The failure of the press will be looked back on with dismay I hope. That journalists have become celebrities themselves in a way instead of just reporting the story is a sad indictment of our world.

Kuennsburg as Political Editor of the BBC has certainly been a failure. She doesnt offer much in the way of any real analysis and rarely if ever challenges authority or speaks truth to power. Instead she prefers to just blandly regurgitate what she is spoonfed by dodgy PR men and report about 'sightings' of various figures.

I've seen her reports and read her articles but the worst is Brexitcast, which she contributes to (i'm not a fan of it having listened to a few episodes). While it is a little more personal and relaxed, Laura just comes across as a bit silly to be honest. Getting giggly and excited about 'what might happen' as if it were all a big game. She is too 'into' the characters and personalities, as if she were a reporter for Tatler.

The BBC Political Editor has to be shrewd, tough and aggressive in getting to the facts of a matter and holding people to account. They set the tone from the top down. She will be leading teams. The UK needs the media to scrutinise their politics for the public's benefit.

I notice that Sky's new political editor Beth Rigby is very soft on May and her legacy, admiring her 'sense of duty'.

J Mysterio

Parliament off now for a six week holiday.
Returning September 3rd.
Brexit deadline still October 31st.
Sure dont they deserve the break!

Jamie2k9

J Mysterio wrote: »

Parliament off now for a six week holiday.
Returning September 3rd.
Brexit deadline still October 31st.
Sure dont they deserve the break!

EU off as well...

Joe_ Public

J Mysterio wrote: »

Kuennsburg as Political Editor of the BBC has certainly been a failure. She doesnt offer much in the way of any real analysis and rarely if ever challenges authority or speaks truth to power. Instead she prefers to just blandly regurgitate what she is spoonfed by dodgy PR men and report about 'sightings' of various figures.

I've seen her reports and read her articles but the worst is Brexitcast, which she contributes to (i'm not a fan of it having listened to a few episodes). While it is a little more personal and relaxed, Laura just comes across as a bit silly to be honest. Getting giggly and excited about 'what might happen' as if it were all a big game. She is too 'into' the characters and personalities, as if she were a reporter for Tatler.

The BBC Political Editor has to be shrewd, tough and aggressive in getting to the facts of a matter and holding people to account. They set the tone from the top down. She will be leading teams. The UK needs the media to scrutinise their politics for the public's benefit.

I notice that Sky's new political editor Beth Rigby is very soft on May and her legacy, admiring her 'sense of duty'.

I'd add Katya Adler to that list of shame, her "wiggle room" tweet about the position of the backstop a few months back was pounced upon by the tory brexiteers for weeks afterwards and was almost certainly spurious or based on tenuous sources at best.

Also, the treatment of Carole Cadwalladr, the way she's basically being shut out by the two main news organisations is nothing short of disgraceful.

gooch2k9

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

EU off as well...

Europeans have their position nailed down.

An extension was granted so that the UK could decide on what they actually want, and come up with workable solutions to issues with the current/proposed agreement. They haven't done any of that.

Only one side deserves a break.

cml387

First Up wrote: »

Says who?

The EU have always said that an extension would be allowed in the event of a GE.

Call me Al

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Interesting theory on UK Gov tactics:

https://twitter.com/syrpis/status/1154286327699005440

Its obvious. If he wants to survive as, at the very least, Tory leader, its the only way he can do so. This is not about brexit for boris johnson, its about his power and leadership and the reinforcement and extension of same.

For Forks Sake

BobbyBobberson wrote: »

Chloe Westley in at No10. Utterly crazy stuff.

May as well transplant the lot of them across from Tufton St at the rate they're going :rolleyes:

Firefox11

J Mysterio wrote: »

Parliament off now for a six week holiday.
Returning September 3rd.
Brexit deadline still October 31st.
Sure dont they deserve the break!

So we will have to wait until september/october for the christmas day episode!!:)

lawred2

J Mysterio wrote: »

Kuennsburg as Political Editor of the BBC has certainly been a failure. She doesnt offer much in the way of any real analysis and rarely if ever challenges authority or speaks truth to power. Instead she prefers to just blandly regurgitate what she is spoonfed by dodgy PR men and report about 'sightings' of various figures.

I've seen her reports and read her articles but the worst is Brexitcast, which she contributes to (i'm not a fan of it having listened to a few episodes). While it is a little more personal and relaxed, Laura just comes across as a bit silly to be honest. Getting giggly and excited about 'what might happen' as if it were all a big game. She is too 'into' the characters and personalities, as if she were a reporter for Tatler.

The BBC Political Editor has to be shrewd, tough and aggressive in getting to the facts of a matter and holding people to account. They set the tone from the top down. She will be leading teams. The UK needs the media to scrutinise their politics for the public's benefit.

I notice that Sky's new political editor Beth Rigby is very soft on May and her legacy, admiring her 'sense of duty'.

Maybe the BBC didn't want any of those things

First Up

cml387 wrote:

The EU have always said that an extension would be allowed in the event of a GE.

An extension may be allowed if all 27 member states agree there is good reason for one. But they are not "duty bound" and the good reason needs to apply to the EU, not just to accomodate the UK's internal convolutions.

Stop moaning ffs

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Darren Grimes was in the news again last week, claiming untruthfully that he had been "completely exonerated" on charges of fraud by the electoral commission. Not that the bbc challenged it.

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1153270498689597441

Have any background on this please?
I’ve seen his name but generally have ignored him

He lied on bbc and got away with I take?

Foghladh

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Yes, he was absolutely lying through his teeth. If you click on the twitter link above itself the thread explains it quite well. Basically, Grimes won his appeal against the fine imposed upon him, but NOT the conviction. The conviction by the electoral commission remains. He won the appeal on a technicality, basically arguing that the organisation he was working for, BeLeave, bore responsibility and not him personally and all down to the fact he had simply filled a form in wrong!

The Electoral Commission can't hand down convictions. He was fined and the fine was overturned on appeal

Enzokk

This is a very interesting thread on the WA and what was achieved with the backstop and why the EU is baffled why the UK is so against it. I am only going to link the first tweet in the thread, it is interesting and shows that if Johnson gets rid of Olly Robbins it would be a massive mistake.

https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/status/1154450105933545473?s=20

Capt'n Midnight

Enzokk wrote: »

Only reporting what he said. He has a magic money forest, not just a tree. There will be money for everything, health and police and social services and investments. Either the previous governments were holding back, of which he was part of, or he is going to borrow money to pay for these. Looking back at his record, £40m wasted on the garden bridge, if he stays as PM for a while it is going to hurt the UK.

The magic money tree will need to cough up about £9Bn just to pay or the tax cuts Boris bribed the voters with.

Hammond said a no deal will cost £90Bn more than the current deal.

How much would the current deal cost ?

The limbo of extensions is costing the UK economy about £40Bn a year and that's while they remain in the EU.


So yeah the £33Bn let of the £39Bn will go a long way :rolleyes:

Joe_ Public

Foghladh wrote: »

The Electoral Commission can't hand down convictions. He was fined and the fine was overturned on appeal

Ok fair enough, i probably overstepped the mark on that, so will withdraw what i posted. Still a chance they will appeal it, have to wait and see.

Beechwoodspark

“Kuennsberg as Political Editor of the BBC has certainly been a failure. She doesnt offer much in the way of any real analysis and rarely if ever challenges authority or speaks truth to power. Instead she prefers to just blandly regurgitate what she is spoonfed by dodgy PR men and report about 'sightings' of various figures.”



1000 times true

Her obsession with idle gossip about political figures has been embarrassing to watch and also does a dire disservice to the UK at this time.

Foghladh

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Ok fair enough, i probably overstepped the mark on that, so will withdraw what i posted. Still a chance they will appeal it, have to wait and see.

I think that they probably will. However the BBC reported the judge in the appeal as saying that "He said Mr Grimes had tried to meet his obligations to the commission in filling out the forms, and that his actions were not dishonest or lacking transparency"

Water John

I think Beth Rigby being soft on May, is just a bit of innate goodness. Not point in ditching on someone who basically failed at her job. Now Cameron would be a different matter.

VinLieger

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

“Kuennsberg as Political Editor of the BBC has certainly been a failure. She doesnt offer much in the way of any real analysis and rarely if ever challenges authority or speaks truth to power. Instead she prefers to just blandly regurgitate what she is spoonfed by dodgy PR men and report about 'sightings' of various figures.”



1000 times true

Her obsession with idle gossip about political figures has been embarrassing to watch and also does a dire disservice to the UK at this time.

Where was this from? Its bang on the money about her!

Beechwoodspark

VinLieger wrote: »

Where was this from? Its bang on the money about her!

It’s a post from earlier on this thread

fash

Enzokk wrote: »

This is a very interesting thread on the WA and what was achieved with the backstop and why the EU is baffled why the UK is so against it. I am only going to link the first tweet in the thread, it is interesting and shows that if Johnson gets rid of Olly Robbins it would be a massive mistake.

https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/status/1154450105933545473?s=20

Said it before. It was Teresa May's awful salesmanship that made an amazing UK victory into an apparent terrible deal.

cml387

First Up wrote: »

An extension may be allowed if all 27 member states agree there is good reason for one. But they are not "duty bound" and the good reason needs to apply to the EU, not just to accomodate the UK's internal convolutions.

Yes but do you really think the EU would force an exit on October 31 with a general election called in the UK? It would play straight into the hands of the Brextremists. Like all of us they would maintain the hope that it might turn out to the EU's advantage.

Joe_ Public

Foghladh wrote: »

I think that they probably will. However the BBC reported the judge in the appeal as saying that "He said Mr Grimes had tried to meet his obligations to the commission in filling out the forms, and that his actions were not dishonest or lacking transparency"

Must go and see if i can find that judges' summary, looks like it would make for interesting reading.

Joe_ Public

Have to admit on the basis of reading Tim Shipmans books and on Benedict Cumberbatchs portrait, i deemed Dominic Cummings to be a somewhat brilliant but clearly unhinged individual. Reading a bit more today, i feel i am discovering a much more balanced and nuanced individual. This bit in particular caught my eye:

https://www.economist.com/bagehots-notebook/2016/01/21/an-interview-with-dominic-cummings

BAGEHOT: In the event of an Out vote do you think the government would seek to hold another referendum, on the terms of Brexit?

DOMINIC CUMMINGS: I think that is a distinct possibility, yes. It’s obviously not something that we can force. We’re a campaign group. But I think it is perfectly possible that leadership candidates to replace David Cameron will say that they think there are good grounds for a new government team to offer the public a voice on what the deal looks like. And we obviously wouldn’t oppose that, if that’s what senior politicians want to offer. I think there’s a strong democratic case for it. There’s also the issue of the profound loss of trust that the establishment has suffered over the past 20-30 years. All parties have told lies about this subject, whether it’s John Major and David Cameron or Gordon Brown, Tony Blair and Nick Clegg. People have repeatedly promised referendums then not held referendums. So given that, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if leadership candidates to replace Cameron said: we need a mechanism so people can have confidence in what we say.

Stop moaning ffs

cml387 wrote: »

Yes but do you really think the EU would force an exit on October 31 with a general election called in the UK? It would play straight into the hands of the Brextremists. Like all of us they would maintain the hope that it might turn out to the EU's advantage.

Wondered about this earlier.

Boris is saying leave 31st but clearly he’s geared up for election.

So is the request for extension happening before that date owing to election?

Or is it out in the 31st and election after?

First Up

Stop moaning ffs wrote:

Or is it out in the 31st and election after?

Even if its election first, you think Boris could ask for an extension, having based his entire run to #10 on leaving on Oct 31?

BonnieSituation

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

EU off as well...

And?

Are the EU careering off a cliff on a unicorn after wasting the last 3 years fighting amongst themselves over some cake?