Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

beggars_bush

Irish politicians haven't really had to do anything during Brexit except turn up to EU meetings an emphasise the GFA and Irish Border

the EU were doing all the negotiating.

BobbyBobberson

The more Leo and Coveney hold the line, the more they look stable. The only thing that has happened since they held their line is the Brexiteers have become more and more rabid. Even more recent events show this. They have a PM that refuses to ring the Irish leader? Bizarre.

MrMusician18

Sam Russell wrote: »

He cannot call a GE without the approval of two thirds of the HoC.

Of course, if Labour sniff a win, they will go for it, but that would be risky and a folly. Better to keep Johnson in place and let him flounder.

An election is automatic afaik if the 14 days allowed to attempt to build an alternate fails.

BobbyBobberson

beggars_bush wrote: »

Irish politicians haven't really had to do anything during Brexit except turn up to EU meetings an emphasise the GFA and Irish Border

the EU were doing all the negotiating.

They have managed to stay on message, something the new government in the UK managed to break after a couple of days. Boris and Gove contradicting themselves on No Deal.

Peregrinus

beggars_bush wrote: »

Irish politicians haven't really had to do anything during Brexit except turn up to EU meetings an emphasise the GFA and Irish Border

the EU were doing all the negotiating.

They've had to ensure that, when doing the negotiationg, the EU put the issue of avoiding a hard border in Ireland front and centre.

Remember, if the EU's only concern were to protect the integrity of the Single Market, erecting a hard border in Ireland would be a no-brainer. The EU's steadfast opposition to a hard border, and their prioritising of that as a first-order issue that the UK must deal with before virtually all else, is almost entirely down to the efforts of Irish officials and politicians.

FrancieBrady

Peregrinus wrote: »

I think we have to start by recognising that Irish diplomatic efforts played a large role in ensuring that that is the EU line in the first place. You could argue that Charlie Flanagan and Simon Coveney were the Ministers immediately responsible, but think both of the taoisigh involved are also deserving of credit.

IMO they had a captive and already convinced audience in Europe. The SM had to be protected and it was a no brainer to pursue the strategy they did.
Remember too that when Enda was Taoiseach, he ruled out looking for Special Status for NI.

Disgraceful, certainly. Don't know whether this is FF, or Dooley on a solo run doing a bit of grandstanding. If the latter, Martin should give him a good clip around the ear, but it's possible that will be done privately.

He seems to be getting it well and truly clipped on the Tweet machine. If FF don't see the writing on the wall, they'll pay for it later.

Christy42

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Meanwhile, Raab tweeted (and quickly deleted) that they would get a good deal for all regions of England, including Scotland.

This wasn't well received in Scotland.

It is like a parody sketch.

Raab has denied the tweet was his and said it was a fake (though it had the verified check so I wonder if that has been compromised).

Not sure how to go about confirming it but at least one paper (daily record, no idea what it is like but could not find the story elsewhere) mentioned he was in transit when it was meant to have been sent.


I would say it got a good few retweets. Wonder how many were agreeing with it...

J Mysterio

One of the benefits of t'internet is that it is a record. As the Brexiteers are now insisting NDB was always on the cards, Google search terms can show that NDB was really only first searched for in mid 2018.

https://twitter.com/mikebutcher/status/1155830876963528706

Headshot

Christy42 wrote: »

Raab has denied the tweet was his and said it was a fake (though it had the verified check so I wonder if that has been compromised).

Not sure how to go about confirming it but at least one paper (daily record, no idea what it is like but could not find the story elsewhere) mentioned he was in transit when it was meant to have been sent.


I would say it got a good few retweets. Wonder how many were agreeing with it...

Another quote for the SNP bus

VinLieger

Christy42 wrote: »

Raab has denied the tweet was his and said it was a fake (though it had the verified check so I wonder if that has been compromised).

Not sure how to go about confirming it but at least one paper (daily record, no idea what it is like but could not find the story elsewhere) mentioned he was in transit when it was meant to have been sent.


I would say it got a good few retweets. Wonder how many were agreeing with it...

He also still called Scotland a region of the United Kingdom during an interview though so he cant exactly claim that was faked too.


Many Scots rightfully a bit pisses at their Country being refereed to as a region but it does give insight into this cabinets mindset

woejus

lawred2 wrote: »

paywalled

https://www.newscabal.co.uk/brexit-has-become-the-enemy-of-the-uk-union/

VinLieger

Good to see Fianna Fail being torn to shreds on twitter for Dooleys comments

Enzokk

Sam Russell wrote: »

He cannot call a GE without the approval of two thirds of the HoC.

Of course, if Labour sniff a win, they will go for it, but that would be risky and a folly. Better to keep Johnson in place and let him flounder.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

An election is automatic afaik if the 14 days allowed to attempt to build an alternate fails.

You are both right and discussing the only 2 ways an election can happen outside of the time specified in the Fixed-term Parliaments Act. If the house votes by 2/3rds majority it could happen if Johnson requests it.

I don't think this will happen and he will try to force a vote of no-confidence by forcing no-deal and having some of hos own MPs vote against the government. This would mean then there is 14 days for another party to try and reach consensus in the house to form a government. If this fails then a general election will happen. This is risky for the UK as it will take time for all of this to play out and if Corbyn takes too long to act the UK could fall out of the EU without a deal while they are in preparation for the election.

This would in some crazy way suit both Corbyn and Johnson as Corbyn will not have Brexit to deal with and can create his socialist utopia and Johnson would have kept his promise of leaving the EU. The Brexit Party would be stunted as they are a one issue party at the same time.

The downside is for the 95% of people not ready for Brexit, but its not like they are supposed to look out for them.

fash

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Meanwhile, Raab tweeted (and quickly deleted) that they would get a good deal for all regions of England, including Scotland.

This wasn't well received in Scotland.

It is like a parody sketch.

he's a details guy. "I hadn't realised that the UK is an island... I hadn't realised that Scotland is a country..."

lawred2

VinLieger wrote: »

Good to see Fianna Fail being torn to shreds on twitter for Dooleys comments

I missed Dimmy Tooley's comments... can you share a link to the twitter thread?

edit... https://twitter.com/timmydooley/status/1156099441197273088

pedrozeno

lawred2 wrote: »

I missed Dimmy Tooley's comments... can you share a link to the twitter thread?

https://twitter.com/timmydooley/status/1156099441197273088?s=21

lawred2

What an absolutely ridiculous intervention. I'm surprised FF head office haven't been in touch to tell him to delete that tweet.

FFers ultimately will never change their spots.

This is the type of tweet in support of Timmy's 'position'

https://twitter.com/NigelFinlay5/status/1156142720655724545

J Mysterio

He is rightly getting pilloried on Twitter for that tweet. Massively stupid.

quokula

J Mysterio wrote: »

One of the benefits of t'internet is that it is a record. As the Brexiteers are now insisting NDB was always on the cards, Google search terms can show that NDB was really only first searched for in mid 2018.

https://twitter.com/mikebutcher/status/1155830876963528706

In fairness that graph doesn't mean much because the terminology "no deal Brexit" didn't really exist. It's become a shorthand for not ratifying the withdrawal agreement.

That's not to say that the voters were in favour of no deal at the time. Those sorts of details were just not even considered.

lawred2

quokula wrote: »

In fairness that graph doesn't mean much because the terminology "no deal Brexit" didn't really exist. It's become a shorthand for not ratifying the withdrawal agreement.

That's not to say that the voters were in favour of no deal at the time. Those sorts of details were just not even considered.

I think you're wrong there. No-one voted Britain to leave the EU without any arrangements whatsoever.

In fact they were given tale after tale of "not leaving the single market" - "easiest trade deals" etc etc

The spin now is that No Deal Brexit was the will of the people and Boris et al have a mandate for it. They patently do not.

Dytalus

J Mysterio wrote: »

He is rightly getting pilloried on Twitter for that tweet. Massively stupid.

He's so widely getting called out for it that "Timmy" is the top trending item for Ireland on Twitter.

Methinks he's going to be called into the head office at some point.

Tell me how

I'm probably going to be voting for Dooley at next GE. But that tweet was off the charts stupid.
I'd say only reason he hasn't deleted is it would be admitting he made a mistake.

Call me Al

quokula wrote: »

In fairness that graph doesn't mean much because the terminology "no deal Brexit" didn't really exist. It's become a shorthand for not ratifying the withdrawal agreement.

That's not to say that the voters were in favour of no deal at the time. Those sorts of details were just not even considered.

Because the voters were told by brexiteers that these worst case scenarios, we are now seeing emerging on the horizon,weren't going to happen.
Apparently the UK government were going to be able to dictate their terms, and it would be the easiest deal in history.
And they believed all this.

mikep

FF need to come out asap and distance themselves from this as the Bojo team will jump on this as apparent disunity in the Irish government over the backstop..

Could have very serious implications and FF will have to take the blame if things go arseways because of this..

Tell me how

mikep wrote: »

FF need to come out asap and distance themselves from this as the Bojo team will jump on this as apparent disunity in the Irish government over the backstop..

Could have very serious implications and FF will have to take the blame if things go arseways because of this..

I'd say they're ok there. UK media already focusing on only 43% of Irish people being happy with Varadkar Brexit approach. Thats a stat they can run with rather than an 'opposition' td.

strawdog

Tell me how wrote: »

I'd say they're ok there. UK media already focusing on only 43% of Irish people being happy with Varadkar Brexit approach. Thats a stat they can run with rather than an 'opposition' td.

Not so sure, some picked up on it straight away. This is from political editor of spectator. They are defo watching for any wobbling

https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/1156145767054270464

BobbyBobberson

https://twitter.com/denisstaunton/status/1156163199709974529

Interesting to see what leaks come from this.

mikep

I'm not so sure about that...with Cummings on board every trick in the book will be used to get them out by the 31st if possible..

I'm wondering is the plan to make Bojo and co. look like the hardest brexiteers in order to win a snap election in a few weeks, dump the DUP and revert to the NI only backstop when suddenly it will become a non issue, according to them, as they will soon do a great deal with the EU therefore no need to worry....

eagle eye

lawred2 wrote:

The spin now is that No Deal Brexit was the will of the people and Boris et al have a mandate for it. They patently do not.

Have you proof of this?

BobbyBobberson

eagle eye wrote: »

Have you proof of this?

The foreign secretary was on the BBC saying this yesterday.