Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

MrMusician18

First Up wrote: »

Interesting pictures but the thought occurs; many of these structures, roads etc. pre-date the GFA and EU membership so how was the border administered in previous times?

In fact, many of those businesses that are literally on the border are located there because of the border. Those locations were specifically chosen in order to play the differentials in the tax regimes for commercial advantage.

The border running down the centre of a petrol forecourt or timber yard didn't happen by accident.

FrancieBrady

First Up wrote: »

Interesting pictures but the thought occurs; many of these structures, roads etc. pre-date the GFA and EU membership so how was the border administered in previous times?

Many roads were blown up, simply impassable in a vehicle. Then you had 'unapproved' roads that crossed, where if caught transporting livestock or goods they were confiscated/you were fined etc. Then you had the approved roads with checkpoints and border posts.

That hardware business was a farm before the the GFA and has appeared since.

FrancieBrady

MrMusician18 wrote: »

In fact, many of those businesses that are literally on the border are located there because of the border. Those locations were specifically chosen in order to play the differentials in the tax regimes for commercial advantage.

The border running down the centre of a petrol forecourt or timber yard didn't happen by accident.

Absolutely.

Bigus

First Up wrote: »

Interesting pictures but the thought occurs; many of these structures, roads etc. pre-date the GFA and EU membership so how was the border administered in previous times?

Many people made a good living out of maximising movement of goods in both direction to avoid tax ,pocketing a 23% vat margin instead of handing it over to the tax man is a good example . And when the authorities tried to enforce collection , guns explosions and fire were used to discourage enforcement . Lawlessness ensues and the heavies take over , often using sectarian nicknames as cover .

First Up

MrMusician18 wrote:

In fact, many of those businesses that are literally on the border are located there because of the border. Those locations were specifically chosen in order to play the differentials in the tax regimes for commercial advantage.

The border running down the centre of a petrol forecourt or timber yard didn't happen by accident.

So the owners could exploit tax differences etc but were exempt from border procedures - customs and security related?

briany

Enzokk wrote: »

James O'Brien is talking about the Irish border right now, link here to their player, not much of interest at the moment as yet. But he has shared this tweet about the Irish border with NI. I am not sure if this has been shared already.

https://twitter.com/marksugruek/status/1155957402312663041?s=20

There is a few tweets in that thread with pictures of the border, some very interesting areas where cows will be moving between the EU and outside of the EU within a barn.

And Johnson promised there would not be a border but they will leave the single market and customs union. As others have pointed out, we are back to the beginning where the UK wants to square that circle without any detail.

The problem with tweets like this is that they seem to be saying that no technology can solve the border question, but that would imply that it is impossible for the UK to make a full break from the EU, and if you say that's impossible then the Brexit grassroots can ask why they're even bothering with the charade of respecting the Good Friday Agreement. In other words, they're playing into Brexiteers' hands. I mean, if these people are willing to endure a nosedive into recession, they're probably willing to endure a destabilised Northern Ireland.

Larbre34

What previously pertained, prior to Ireland and the UK entering the Common Market with businesses whose premises straddled the border, as they surely did?

Zubeneschamali

Larbre34 wrote: »

What previously pertained, prior to Ireland and the UK entering the Common Market with businesses whose premises straddled the border, as they surely did?

Look up Slab Murphy.

FrancieBrady

Larbre34 wrote: »

What previously pertained, prior to Ireland and the UK entering the Common Market with businesses whose premises straddled the border, as they surely did?

Same system of approved and un-approved roads. Customs on approved roads.

FrancieBrady

Larbre34 wrote: »

What previously pertained, prior to Ireland and the UK entering the Common Market with businesses whose premises straddled the border, as they surely did?

Getting documents in order at 50's customs post.

VinLieger

Wasnt someone looking for evidence to show Boris has no mandate for No Deal?


https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson_MP/status/1155808844024602624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1155808844024602624&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thelondoneconomic.com%2Fpolitics%2Fvideo-of-boris-johnson-saying-no-government-would-bring-uk-out-of-single-market-goes-viral%2F30%2F07%2F

Leroy42

briany wrote: »

The problem with tweets like this is that they seem to be saying that no technology can solve the border question, but that would imply that it is impossible for the UK to make a full break from the EU, and if you say that's impossible then the Brexit grassroots can ask why they're even bothering with the charade of respecting the Good Friday Agreement. In other words, they're playing into Brexiteers' hands. I mean, if these people are willing to endure a nosedive into recession, they're probably willing to endure a destabilised Northern Ireland.

It is not saying it is not possible for the UK to leave the EU, just not to do so without any impact on one party of another. Be that the GFA, Ireland, EU, NI or whatever. They nned to stick with the GFA because not do so is incredibly irresponsible to UK citizens living and working in NI.

This is something that seems to have totally bypassed the Brexiteers who even now are of the opinion that something should be done to fix the whole thing, but they don't seem to know what.

After 3 years we are back at the point we all started at, in a way Davis was right in terms of the fight of the summer. But instead of having the fight directly, the UK simply lied that they accepted the conditions and then spent 3 years complaining about the conditions.

But at the end of the day, none of this (problem with GFA) shou;d be a surprise to anyone and certainly not the UK government. That they have gone s far down a cul de sac is a problem of their making but instead of stopping and turning around they want the wall and houses at the end of the road torn down so they can continue on without having to stop.

Edit: I am pretty fed up with this line from the UK that Brexit is terribly hard and everyone should really help make it easier on them. As Brexiteers are so fond of telling everyone, people know what they were voting for, thus hey must have known the complications of the GFA and the NI. So why all this supposed angst that it is all so very difficult.

Even Johnson, only recently made PM, only policy seems to be that the EU need to sort out a solution. He can only say what he doesn't want, but has nothing to offer. Apparently this passes as leadership these days

Jim2007

Sam Russell wrote: »

Currently, if a purchase is made from Ireland on Amazon, the price is hiked by the extra 3% on the VAT charged here compared with the UK. That will not happen after Brexit, but VAT will be charged by the the shipper, plus admin charges. So expect an Amazon.ie to begin shipping from European fulfillment centres.

No they will continue to ship from where ever suits them. However when you go to pay you will be redirected to amazon.de most likely as it is already setup to handle this since the beginning of this year and is available in English.

Amazon has been testing this since the beginning of the year here in Switzerland. If I go to a non Euro amazon site and place an order I will be redirected back to amazon.de for payment, where I can either switch the language to English or switch to another euro based site.

abff

Leroy42 wrote: »

That they have gone so far down a cul de sac is a problem of their making but instead of stopping and turning around they want the wall and houses at the end of the road torn down so they can continue on withut having to stop.

Very nicely put!

darem93

Arlene still doesn't get it. Until you reach out and make sure every community in the North feels content, Northern Ireland as an entity will always be at risk. Before this whole Brexit fiasco, the Union was probably safer than it ever was. However her party pulled the rug under 20 years of peace and stability in hopes of ripping up the very thing that made the union with GB work for everyone. Now that the EU are trying to reach a compromise that recognises NI's special status while also guaranteeing its place in the UK, they're being the "belligerent" ones. Arlene can blame Brussels or Dublin all she wants, but the fact is that no one has done more damage to the Union than her and her party have.

Dytalus

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is not saying it is not possible for the UK to leave the EU, just not to do so without any impact on one party of another. Be that the GFA, Ireland, EU, NI or whatever. They nned to stick with the GFA because not do so is incredibly irresponsible to UK citizens living and working in NI.

The reason so few Tory politicians (and, arguably, so few British citizens) care about their citizens in Northern Ireland is because they don't see them as fellow citizens in the UK.

Northern Ireland is "over there". It's not really part of the UK like England is, or Wales is, or that 'region' Scotland is. No, Northern Ireland is filled with Irish citizens. Not UK citizens and certainly not British citizens. They're practically outsiders, troublemakers, a heavy chain around the leg of the Union. Look at how much online discourse paints the potential for violence as an 'Irish' problem, completely ignoring the fact that the Troubles was a civil war inside the United Kingdom. The innocent Catholics gunned down while having their evening pints were UK citizens, the Protestant families displaced by IRA aggression were UK citizens. The protesters shot in the back by the British Army were UK citizens. But nope, no, far too difficult to admit that good and proper UK citizens could ever do that to each other. That was the Irish.

And if you look at how the backstop gets discussed, if you look at the tone of online discourse (or the tone coming out of some MPs) when Northern Ireland gets brought up, if you look at how easily the concerns of the Northern Irish are dismissed you'll see how those in power view their fellows in Northern Ireland. The people of Northern Ireland don't really count as citizens of the UK.

They're not British after all.

I may be a little bitter over how the people of NI have been treated and ignored and derisively insulted since the referendum, and I don't even have any family or friends there.

A Dub in Glasgo

The UK need to be reminded time and again that they gave a commitment not to retrun to the border of old and that commitment is encapsulated in the backstop. If they want rid of the backstop, they no longer want to give that commitment - they should be called out on it

rossie1977

Yeah you constantly hear people from Northern Ireland being described as 'Irish' by the British media or British sportscasters.

BobbyBobberson

So what do people think will happen. Johnson says he wont approach the EU unless they change the WA. EU says they wont, so what happens? Both sides sit it out until a No Deal?

A Dub in Glasgo

BobbyBobberson wrote: »

So what do people think will happen. Johnson says he wont approach the EU unless they change the WA. EU says they wont, so what happens? Both sides sit it out until a No Deal?

Pretty much, the EU in granting the extension were quite clear and they would be crazy to roll back

Tell me how

BobbyBobberson wrote: »

So what do people think will happen. Johnson says he wont approach the EU unless they change the WA. EU says they wont, so what happens? Both sides sit it out until a No Deal?

I think Johnson has to approach the EU eventually otherwise they can just shrug their shoulders and say last we heard, they were trying to pass the negotiated deal.

Seth Brundle

rossie1977 wrote: »

Yeah you constantly hear people from Northern Ireland being described as 'Irish' by the British media or British sportscasters.

Well they are!
Leaving Irish nationalism aside, the UK =GB (England + Scotland + Wales) + NI
Britain = GB (England + Scotland + Wales)

Someone from GB (England + Scotland + Wales) is British.
Someone from NI is not British (as they're not from the three aformentioned countries).
Nor are they United Kingdom-ish.
They are Irish.

BonnieSituation

rossie1977 wrote: »

Yeah you constantly hear people from Northern Ireland being described as 'Irish' by the British media or British sportscasters.

You rarely do.

But, they are and always have been.

Stop moaning ffs

Just heard in the news on LBC UK is meeting Eu negotiators in Brussels today?
I’ll try catch who they sent next bulletin

robinph

Seth Brundle wrote: »

rossie1977 wrote: »

Yeah you constantly hear people from Northern Ireland being described as 'Irish' by the British media or British sportscasters.

Well they are!
Leaving Irish nationalism aside, the UK =GB (England + Scotland + Wales) + NI
Britain = GB (England + Scotland + Wales)

Someone from GB (England + Scotland + Wales) is British.
Someone from NI is not British (as they're not from the three aformentioned countries).
Nor are they United Kingdom-ish.
They are Irish.

But you have the added confusion that the UK teams for various international sports is called Team GB.

Water John

US politicians from both sides quite clearly letting the UK know that if they mess with the GFA in any way, there is no chance of a trade deal.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/31/brexit-mess-with-good-friday-and-well-block-uk-trade-deal-us-politicians-warn

Quin_Dub

Water John wrote: »

US politicians from both sides quite clearly letting the UK know that if they mess with the GFA in any way, there is no chance of a trade deal.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/31/brexit-mess-with-good-friday-and-well-block-uk-trade-deal-us-politicians-warn

Absolutely - Certainly not in the next 18 months or so at least.

Even if Trump was to quickly bodge together some kind of a deal in the immediate aftermath of Brexit , the Democrats in the house will block it - Just as they continue to do with his "NAFTA in all but name" trade deal.

As other have pointed out , it remains to be seen if the Democrat opposition to a Brexit deal that impacts the GFA is genuine or not , but for as long as Trump is in the White house and they control the House or Senate there will be no deal signed with the UK if the WA isn't agreed to.

lawred2

robinph wrote: »

But you have the added confusion that the UK teams for various international sports is called Team GB.

well yes but athletes in the North generally represent the IOC

brickster69

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Just heard in the news on LBC UK is meeting Eu negotiators in Brussels today?
I’ll try catch who they sent next bulletin

Here you go

https://www.forexlive.com/news/!/frost-reportedly-to-reiterate-that-uk-is-leaving-on-31-october-during-20190731

Theanswers

Jim2007 wrote: »

No they will continue to ship from where ever suits them. However when you go to pay you will be redirected to amazon.de most likely as it is already setup to handle this since the beginning of this year and is available in English.

Amazon has been testing this since the beginning of the year here in Switzerland. If I go to a non Euro amazon site and place an order I will be redirected back to amazon.de for payment, where I can either switch the language to English or switch to another euro based site.

I sell on Amazon FBA throughout the UK, Europe and the USA from my UK company. What most people don't realise is that a huge amount of EU 'listings' are fulfilled from the UK with UK companies using Fulfilment by Amazon.

After Brexit, this will continue with additional taxes etc for non UK sales if fulfilled from the UK Fulfilment Centres. Irish customers will be at the biggest disadvantages due to electrical sockets, slower deliver times etc.

Business will go on however not as good as currently, but there is nothing I can do about it apart from redirect some additional stock to EU fulfilment centres (none in ROI) and therefore not bring that EU stock into the UK.