Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

listermint

Theanswers wrote: »

I sell on Amazon FBA throughout the UK, Europe and the USA from my UK company. What most people don't realise is that a huge amount of EU 'listings' are fulfilled from the UK with UK companies using Fulfilment by Amazon.

After Brexit, this will continue with additional taxes etc for non UK sales if fulfilled from the UK Fulfilment Centres. Irish customers will be at the biggest disadvantages due to electrical sockets, slower deliver times etc.

Business will go on however not as good as currently, but there is nothing I can do about it apart from redirect some additional stock to EU fulfilment centres (none in ROI) and therefore not bring that EU stock into the UK.

Reality is simple,

irish people will stop using Amazon UK, lets see if Amazon changes tack.

Lackadaisical

Am I hearing things or did the DUP quote Boris Johnson as "never being neutral on the union" and against any form of border poll.

Is that not the end of the GFA? The whole basis of that was a neutrality by the two governments on the constitutional issues and parity of esteem.

That's a real departure and it's not a minor internal UK issue or even Scottish or Welsh devolution he's talking about here. It's a whole basis of the NI peace process.

Water John

Frost is just an advisor, no political ranking. Wonder who from the EU side will meet him?

Stop moaning ffs

Amazon have data centres larger than football fields all over Dublin.
Don’t think It would cost them all that much to relocate. If they aren’t working on it already.

VinLieger

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Amazon have data centres larger than football fields all over Dublin.
Don’t think It would cost them all that much to relocate. If they aren’t working on it already.

Theyve said before its not economically viable to setup a fulfillment centre in Ireland, were too small a market.

briany

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is not saying it is not possible for the UK to leave the EU, just not to do so without any impact on one party of another. Be that the GFA, Ireland, EU, NI or whatever. They nned to stick with the GFA because not do so is incredibly irresponsible to UK citizens living and working in NI.

This is something that seems to have totally bypassed the Brexiteers who even now are of the opinion that something should be done to fix the whole thing, but they don't seem to know what.

After 3 years we are back at the point we all started at, in a way Davis was right in terms of the fight of the summer. But instead of having the fight directly, the UK simply lied that they accepted the conditions and then spent 3 years complaining about the conditions.

But at the end of the day, none of this (problem with GFA) shou;d be a surprise to anyone and certainly not the UK government. That they have gone s far down a cul de sac is a problem of their making but instead of stopping and turning around they want the wall and houses at the end of the road torn down so they can continue on without having to stop.

Edit: I am pretty fed up with this line from the UK that Brexit is terribly hard and everyone should really help make it easier on them. As Brexiteers are so fond of telling everyone, people know what they were voting for, thus hey must have known the complications of the GFA and the NI. So why all this supposed angst that it is all so very difficult.

Even Johnson, only recently made PM, only policy seems to be that the EU need to sort out a solution. He can only say what he doesn't want, but has nothing to offer. Apparently this passes as leadership these days

Brexiteers on the mainland do not care about Northern Ireland. On other UK-based forums, where the arguments are less one-sided than here (understandably), and you have a fair few 'gammons' questioning whether the GFA is really a binding agreement. Here's one for you,

"I think people are imbuing the Good Friday Agreement with a lot more kudos than it deserves. For example..... The agreement acknowledged that the majority of the people of Northern Ireland wished to remain a part of the United Kingdom but that a substantial section of the people of Northern Ireland, and the majority of the people of the island of Ireland, wished to bring about a united Ireland...… that's about as open ended as you can get. The vague wording of some of the provisions, described as "constructive ambiguity", helped ensure acceptance of the agreement and served to postpone debate on some of the more contentious issues. Also, of course, don't forget that the DUP didn't sign the agreement.
It was an agreement that was overwhelmingly all about the cessation of hostilities, and since then, its assumed in people's minds an importance that isn't warranted by its content. Most certainly, it left the question of sovereignty completely open ended. It was an agreement that was supposed to be the starting point for more detailed discussion and agreement. This never happened, therefore it could be argued that The Good Friday Agreement, isn't an agreement at all, only a letter of intent, which has no legal standing. The maintenance of the accord is only by the wishes of successive governments. The tacit agreement is that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, and will remain so until a majority of the people both of Northern Ireland and of the Republic of Ireland wish otherwise. Should that happen, then the British and Irish governments are under "a binding obligation" to implement that choice. Although whether you can have a binding agreement within a letter of intent could provide lawyers with a stupendous income for a great many years.
To top it all, of course, and making a mockery of the "agreement", some elected MPs from Northern Ireland refuse to take their seats at Westminster as they refuse to recognise the British Governemnt ……… so much for the Good Friday AGREEMENT, eh??"

Stop moaning ffs

VinLieger wrote: »

Theyve said before its not economically viable to setup a fulfillment centre in Ireland, were too small a market.

Well I meant relocate here to replace fulfilment to distribution centres over there. They wouldn’t only be selling to us I don’t think.?

Last I heard they were testing drone delivery in one of their centers in cork. Bit bizarre.

VinLieger

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Well I meant relocate here to replace fulfilment to distribution centres over there. They wouldn’t only be selling to us I don’t think.?

Last I heard they were testing drone delivery in one of their centers in cork. Bit bizarre.

I know but they aren't gonna get rid UK fulfillment centres cus they still wanna sell within the UK, but again since we are such a small market they will likely move us to French or German fulfillment instead of setting up our own dedicated one for the same reasons they never have before.

Maybe in the case of a UI we might then be big enough.

Nody

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Well I meant relocate here to replace fulfilment to distribution centres over there. They wouldn’t only be selling to us I don’t think.?

Last I heard they were testing drone delivery in one of their centers in cork. Bit bizarre.

They are not going to set up a center in Ireland; they will use their existing once for Germany or France instead to ship out from instead to serve the Irish market. There are simply due to country size and geography no reason to have a dedicated Irish center; it would make more sense to open one in let's say Belgium if they were to open a new one.

Stop moaning ffs

Nody wrote: »

They are not going to set up a center in Ireland; they will use their existing once for Germany or France instead to ship out from instead most likely to serve the Irish market.

Not sure I’d want them here if the appalling pay and conditions workers have is to be believed.

First Up

I'm sure Amazon's UK base will continue but they might switch their coverage of Ireland to their base in Holland or Belgium. I know Japanese companies that are doing that.

Water John

A bit easier, trading in euro. Won't sweat if it takes a day or two longer.

First Up

Water John wrote:

A bit easier, trading in euro. Won't sweat if it takes a day or two longer.

Its more about items crossing customs frontiers. They already deal in multiple currencies.

maynooth_rules

darem93 wrote: »

Arlene still doesn't get it. Until you reach out and make sure every community in the North feels content, Northern Ireland as an entity will always be at risk. Before this whole Brexit fiasco, the Union was probably safer than it ever was. However her party pulled the rug under 20 years of peace and stability in hopes of ripping up the very thing that made the union with GB work for everyone. Now that the EU are trying to reach a compromise that recognises NI's special status while also guaranteeing its place in the UK, they're being the "belligerent" ones. Arlene can blame Brussels or Dublin all she wants, but the fact is that no one has done more damage to the Union than her and her party have.

And good ould Sammy continously saying little old Ireland has 'overplayed it's hand'. No Sammy, you just have not realised how fragile your bigoted hand is.

Kermit.de.frog

A despicable article by Bruce Arnold in the Telegraph.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/31/bought-brussels-little-irelands-ridiculous-leaders-have-landed/

Didn't Haughey once call Arnold "a guest here"? Indeed.

Theanswers

listermint wrote: »

Reality is simple,

irish people will stop using Amazon UK, lets see if Amazon changes tack.

I'm sure they might. But again it doesn't solve the point I raised which is that Amazon UK is about 3.5 times the size of the nearest Amazon EU marketplace (Germany) of which the majority of Amazon Germanys products are sold by UK companies using UK Fulfillment Centers. The product choice of Amazon Germany, France, Italy and Spain will reduce after brexit and have increased prices.

This coupled with the fact Irish consumers will have longer delivery times and incorrect EU plug sockets.

I really see both traditional and online shopping in Ireland become extremely uncompetitive coupled with poor consumer choices if brexit goes ahead.

fash

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Not sure I’d want them here if the appalling pay and conditions workers have is to be believed.

There was an interesting article in Quillette from a worker who disagreed with the picture painted of bad pay and conditions. Well worth a read - the worker is a part-time journalist and the writing is good.
Edit: forgot the link

https://quillette.com/2019/07/19/the-problem-with-tourist-journalism/

Mr.Wemmick

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

A despicable article by Bruce Arnold in the Telegraph.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/31/bought-brussels-little-irelands-ridiculous-leaders-have-landed/

Didn't Haughey once call Arnold "a guest here"? Indeed.

Paywalled, unfortunately.

fash

First Up wrote: »

I'm sure Amazon's UK base will continue but they might switch their coverage of Ireland to their base in Holland or Belgium. I know Japanese companies that are doing that.

It could be a great use of the proposed free ports- correct?

Shelga

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

A despicable article by Bruce Arnold in the Telegraph.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/31/bought-brussels-little-irelands-ridiculous-leaders-have-landed/

Didn't Haughey once call Arnold "a guest here"? Indeed.

Article is behind a paywall but I got this far: "Whatever faults the British may have, they understand independence and freedom."

What a joke. Tell that to any countries of the empire that were colonised and brutalised by Britain.

This entire Brexit fiasco has prompted me to brush up on my history recently, actually. Britain really did some heinous and horrific damage in the world. You would think they would be ashamed of a lot of their history. Their entire mindset around Brexit, however, shows that the opposite is true.

They really think they are something special. Ireland better not budge an inch.

Sam Russell

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

Paywalled, unfortunately.

Thank goodness it is paywalled. Anyone who refers to 'Little Old Ireland' and claims to be British but has lived here for sixty years - well, that says it all. Truly a guest in this country - but an unwelcome and ungrateful one.

I think that kind of trash is par for the course in the Daily Telegraph - the anti Irish propaganda is in full flow.

prawnsambo

Sam Russell wrote: »

Thank goodness it is paywalled. Anyone who refers to 'Little Old Ireland' and claims to be British but has lived here for sixty years - well, that says it all. Truly a guest in this country - but an unwelcome and ungrateful one.

I think that kind of trash is par for the course in the Daily Telegraph - the anti Irish propaganda is in full flow.

Interesting fact about Bruce Arnold is that he was the subject of illegal telephone tapping in 1982 instigated by then Justice Minister Sean Doherty because he was considered 'anti-national'. The ensuing scandal cost Doherty his cabinet position and about ten years later, Charlie Haughey his job as Taoiseach when Doherty admitted that he'd shared transcripts with him.

Enzokk

brickster69 wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/31/johnson-sends-ditch-the-backstop-message-to-eu-via-brexit-adviser

I wonder what his reception will be. If he goes there demanding that the UK leave the single market and the customs union and that the backstop be dropped his reception will surely be a cold one.

As for Labour, Thornberry has just come out with an interesting statement.

We'd be ‘off our rockers’ not to back remain in poll, says Thornberry

Labour’s Emily Thornberry has said the party would be “off our bloody rockers” not to seize the chance to remain in the EU via a second referendum, in an interview which put her at odds with comments from Jeremy Corbyn over the weekend.

Speaking in Australia, the shadow foreign secretary said all her meetings in the country had underlined how much better off the UK would be inside the EU.

“People that I’ve spoken to here appreciate that, and I have to say practically all of them … have said if we get an opportunity to remain in the European Union, we should take it. Because if we don’t, we’re off our bloody rockers,” she said.

On Sunday Corbyn said Labour would campaign for a second referendum and to remain in the EU if Johnson was proposing a no-deal Brexit but said the party would “reopen talks with the EU” about a Brexit deal if it won an election.

So now Thornberry is also against Corbyn. I wonder if she will get the same treatment from the Corbynites as they have given to Tom Watson. She is a Corbyn supporter and she has seen the light. Not even a Labour deal will be good for the country.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: When pasting a link, please add a reasonable summary of what's in it in your own words. Thanks.

serfboard

Sam Russell wrote: »

Thank goodness it is paywalled.

Exactly my sentiment - but let's just show what is visible so people here know what we're talking about:

Bruce Arnold wrote:

This is tough right now, being a proud and loyal British subject who has lived in, and loved, Ireland for more than 60 years. What is tough is watching the ridiculous behaviour of the Taoiseach Leo Varadkar and his foreign minister, Simon Coveney, trying to destroy, like wilful children, relations with an ancient and friendly neighbour.

Whatever faults the British may have, they understand independence and freedom. I can understand why they mock the ridiculous behaviour of these two men. Varadkar and Coveney are both members of Fine Gael, a party that has its roots in the fight 100 years ago to secure independence and freedom for Ireland. Yet now here they are trying to block the UK’s path to...

... and thankfully the rest is unavailable - unless you pay for it. And who would want to pay to read that muck?

serfboard

Dytalus wrote: »

The reason so few Tory politicians (and, arguably, so few British citizens) care about their citizens in Northern Ireland is because they don't see them as fellow citizens in the UK.

Northern Ireland is "over there". It's not really part of the UK like England is, or Wales is, or that 'region' Scotland is. No, Northern Ireland is filled with Irish citizens. Not UK citizens and certainly not British citizens. They're practically outsiders, troublemakers, a heavy chain around the leg of the Union ...

And if you look at how the backstop gets discussed, if you look at the tone of online discourse (or the tone coming out of some MPs) when Northern Ireland gets brought up, if you look at how easily the concerns of the Northern Irish are dismissed you'll see how those in power view their fellows in Northern Ireland. The people of Northern Ireland don't really count as citizens of the UK.

The thing is, the above is true to the extent that the British think about Northern Ireland at all. The problem is - they don't. Witness the extent that the foreseeable problem that the border was going to be was discussed before the referendum - not at all, and not even raised by journalists who should have known better. They simply "forgot" about NI during the referendum - and for a long time beforehand.

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Someone from GB (England + Scotland + Wales) is British.
Someone from NI is not British (as they're not from the three aformentioned countries).
Nor are they United Kingdom-ish.
They are Irish.

Reminding me of that great interview of Sammy Wilson conducted by Ali G in Belfast:

Ali G: Is you Irish?
Sammy: No, I'm British.
Ali G: So is you 'ere on 'oliday?

ambro25

VinLieger wrote: »

I know but they aren't gonna get rid UK fulfillment centres cus they still wanna sell within the UK, but again since we are such a small market they will likely move us to French or German fulfillment instead of setting up our own dedicated one for the same reasons they never have before.

Maybe in the case of a UI we might then be big enough.

Anecdotally, but perhaps topically still, there's a pretty large Amazon logistics centre (185k sqm) scheduled to be set up in north east France, just over the border from us, on what used to be a large NATO airbase until decomm'd by the French Ministère des Armées.

We're fresh still in Luxembourg, but already well used to 'small country syndrome' for bricks and e-tail: Amazon is either .fr or .de (mostly .de for the locals), same story with eBay, IKEA etc.

E.g. we're sandwiched between a 'standard'-sized IKEA in Arlon just over the Belgian border to the west, and a 'supersized' (regional logistics centre) IKEA in Metz just over the French border to the south. As it happens, that new large Amazon logistics unit in Frescaty would be in the southern suburbs of Metz.

murphaph

Theanswers wrote: »

I'm sure they might. But again it doesn't solve the point I raised which is that Amazon UK is about 3.5 times the size of the nearest Amazon EU marketplace (Germany) of which the majority of Amazon Germanys products are sold by UK companies using UK Fulfillment Centers. The product choice of Amazon Germany, France, Italy and Spain will reduce after brexit and have increased prices.

I must say I've never noticed this in practice but maybe I buy the wrong stuff to see it. I live in Germany and it's really rare that something comes from the UK in my experience. In fact a large amount of stuff comes from the warehouse 10 minutes away. I can often order Prime stuff with same day delivery by Amazon Logistics.

Sam Russell

Just to parse what BA says:

Originally Posted by Bruce Arnold
This is tough right now, being a proud and loyal British subject who has lived in, and loved, Ireland for more than 60 years. What is tough is watching the ridiculous behaviour of the Taoiseach Leo Varadkar and his foreign minister, Simon Coveney, trying to destroy, like wilful children, relations with an ancient and friendly neighbour.

To use terms like that is pejorative to say the least and reduces the article to propaganda - which it obviously is. The 'friendly neighbour' that clearly assisted the bombers that caused the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. They also were part of a campaign of murders and bombings against Catholics (who may or may not have been subversives. That kind of behaviour is not that of a friend.

Whatever faults the British may have, they understand independence and freedom. I can understand why they mock the ridiculous behaviour of these two men. Varadkar and Coveney are both members of Fine Gael, a party that has its roots in the fight 100 years ago to secure independence and freedom for Ireland. Yet now here they are trying to block the UK’s path to...

They surely do understand independence. That is why they shelled Dublin in 1916 - the second city of the Empire. That is why they burned down the centre on Cork in 1921. That is why the fought the Boor Way, That is why they fought Ghandi in India using force against a pacifist. And that is why they opposed every attempt at movements looking for independence from the British Empire

Yes they do understand independence. (Just enough not to allow subjugated people to achieve it).

I must go and lie down somewhere dark and quiet.

Stop moaning ffs

‘Britain is a country that understands freedom and independence’ says a man from a country that is and will continue to block Scottish freedom and independence.

The British are incurably appalling quite often but the ramping up of the anti Irish can sentiment is growing daily and obviously orchestrated but it is probably only going to get worse on a lot more fronts than the awful telegraph after the 31st and the fate they’ve sealed for themselves starts bearing terrible results.