Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Stop moaning ffs

Seth Brundle wrote: »

...and nothing significant has changed the political landscape since 2014?

Best ignoring that one. Contrarian and non contributory of any substance across several forums.

eagle eye

Seth Brundle wrote:

...and nothing significant has changed the political landscape since 2014?

That's the spoiled child syndrome demanding action when they don't get their way. Are you Scottish? If you are and voted last time then you voted yes I'd bet.
Referendums shouldn't happen very often. 2024 at the earliest is the next time Scotland should be given the opportunity.

Seth Brundle

It feels good when you have powerful friends watching your back...

Guy Verhofstadt has said Ireland will receive unstinting support from the rest of the EU in the event of pressure from the UK to concede ground on the backstop.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/eu-brexit-negotiator-pressuring-ireland-will-prompt-waves-of-solidarity-from-rest-of-eu-940811.html

eagle eye

Seth Brundle wrote:

It feels good when you have powerful friends watching your back...

What does that mean? What is he going to do?
If the Brits say they are out and send nobody to the border what are the EU going to do about it?

BobbyBobberson

Don't feed the troll. This is one of the best threads on here, love the Brexit chat.

KildareP

weemcd wrote: »

This. I don't know much about Wales in all the turmoil of Brexit as they are rarely mentioned compared to Northern Ireland and Scotland. They (Wales) did vote to leave after all. But I do know this, Scotland want many of the provisions offered to Northern Ireland for themselves. You couldn't offer NI their own vote without Scotland demanding their own.

Noises coming from Wales this week seems like they may be having second thoughts... but at the end of the day as you say they did vote to leave! Maybe reality setting in.

briany

KildareP wrote: »

Can't see that happening as it would cause ruptions in Scotland, possibly Wales also.

Except the backstop wasn't offered because a majority of NI voted to remain or to keep it in the UK. It's offered in order to help preserve a long-standing peace. Never mind the fact that NI has no government to legislate on the backstop. It's a special set of circumstances that Scotland or Wales have no call to use as a precedent.

Seth Brundle

eagle eye wrote: »

What does that mean?

Having noticed the slant of your posts, I'm not surprised to see you ask the above.
November will be interesting indeed!

Christy42

eagle eye wrote: »

What does that mean? What is he going to do?
If the Brits say they are out and send nobody to the border what are the EU going to do about it?

Supply evidence of the open border to the Canadian lawyers bringing a WTO case vs the British? (Unless the UK just charges 0% tariffs for everything in which case probably prepare aid packages as UK industry collapses from a lack of protection vs the world).

Stop moaning ffs

Option A is most likely. DUP and unionists on radio all day screaming that Johnson hasn’t said anything about protecting them and the Union.

Dogs in the street know he’s going to agree to a Northern Ireland only backstop that puts a border in the sea.

He then has an election and sails through as a hero that got to deliver brexit with a deal.

The Eu are open to that too remember.

This is the only sensible option.

Problem is Cummings and Bannon are involved. So sensible might not be the agenda. Chaos and breaking up the EU definitely is their agenda.

Seth Brundle

eagle eye wrote: »

If the Brits say they are out and send nobody to the border what are the EU going to do about it?

What about taking back control of the borders and all that?

KildareP

briany wrote: »

Except the backstop wasn't offered because a majority of NI voted to remain or to keep it in the UK. It's offered in order to help preserve a long-standing peace. Never mind the fact that NI has no government to legislate on the backstop. It's a special set of circumstances that Scotland or Wales have no call to use as a precedent.

Which is why it cannot be seen to be voted on by the public. It's part of a peace agreement, not an option.

ancapailldorcha

eagle eye wrote: »

What does that mean? What is he going to do?
If the Brits say they are out and send nobody to the border what are the EU going to do about it?

What would be the point of Brexit then? There'd be no screening people entering Northern Ireland. There'd be no need for other countries to negotiate a trade deal as they can just export across the border with no problems. The Irish customs officers won't be bothering to check, that's for sure.

How does giving up so much control do the UK any good? And that's before we get to the violation of WTO rules that leaving the border unstaffed would constitute. Who wants to negotiate with a capricious rule breaker?

Ben Done

Seth Brundle wrote: »

It feels good when you have powerful friends watching your back...

I love this point at the end of Verhofstat"s Guardian piece:

Johnson repeatedly declares that Britain must leave the EU “do or die” by 31 October, but he misquotes the Charge of the Light Brigade by Alfred, Lord Tennyson:

“Theirs not to make reply / Theirs not to reason why / Theirs but to do and die. / Into the valley of death / Rode the six hundred.”

It is telling that these three words, do or die, misrepresent a poem about a famous British military catastrophe. We must not allow an injurious Brexit strategy, wrongly wrapped up in an English flag, to harm us all.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/31/boris-johnson-eu-no-deal-brexit-uk-government-backstop?

briany

Seth Brundle wrote: »

What about taking back control of the borders and all that?

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

What would be the point of Brexit then? There'd be no screening people entering Northern Ireland. There'd be no need for other countries to negotiate a trade deal as they can just export across the border with no problems. The Irish customs officers won't be bothering to check, that's for sure.

How does giving up so much control do the UK any good? And that's before we get to the violation of WTO rules that leaving the border unstaffed would constitute. Who wants to negotiate with a capricious rule breaker?

Brexit's about keeping Eastern Europeans and the Calais massive out, truth be told. Controlling borders is a dog whistle.

Does no-one remember the Breaking Point poster?

FrancieBrady

Anyone got a link to Farage suggesting a border poll?

ancapailldorcha

briany wrote: »

Brexit's about keeping Eastern Europeans and the Calais massive out, truth be told. Controlling borders is a dog whistle.

Does no-one remember the Breaking Point poster?

The same Eastern Europeans who have full rights regarding living and working in Ireland who will face no obstacles crossing the border in the scenario posed by eagle eye?

Kermit.de.frog

Former editor of the Sun more than hinting at an organised press campaign against Ireland and suggests it will ramp up further.

https://twitter.com/davidyelland/status/1156607348477169664


This is Cummings work I imagine. Everyone on song.

LionelNashe

Do you all reckon that the following could happen:

Parliament won't let Boris do a no-deal Brexit, so he calls an election, and the parliament that is returned has a majority of hard-brexiters (made up of Tories and Brexit Party), and they then vote to leave without a deal.

LionelNashe

LionelNashe wrote: »

Do you all reckon that the following could happen:

Parliament won't let Boris do a no-deal Brexit, so he calls an election, and the parliament that is returned has a majority of hard-brexiters (made up of Tories and Brexit Party), and they then vote to leave without a deal.

They're more likely to vote for a deal that dumps NI out of the union, Brexit being the bigger prize.

Christy42

LionelNashe wrote: »

Do you all reckon that the following could happen:

Parliament won't let Boris do a no-deal Brexit, so he calls an election, and the parliament that is returned has a majority of hard-brexiters (made up of Tories and Brexit Party), and they then vote to leave without a deal.

Hey if the UK votes them in they deserve it.

Will the conservatives risk Corbyn by calling an election though. Even to stop No deal?

ancapailldorcha

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This is Cummings work I imagine. Everyone on song.

Outdated publications who never realized that Britain is simply a middling state in today's world. This won't make a difference to anyone. The Tory Brexiters will love it while anyone who is anti-Brexit just has their view reinforced that little bit more.

LionelNashe wrote: »

Do you all reckon that the following could happen:

Parliament won't let Boris do a no-deal Brexit, so he calls an election, and the parliament that is returned has a majority of hard-brexiters (made up of Tories and Brexit Party), and they then vote to leave without a deal.

I think Parliament will send Johnson to Brussels to request an extension so they can hold either a GE or a People's Vote. Failing that, they'll revoke Article 50. Parliament really does not want no deal.

briany

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The same Eastern Europeans who have full rights regarding living and working in Ireland who will face no obstacles crossing the border in the scenario posed by eagle eye?

Yes. Couple of things: I think Brexiters don't believe anywhere near the numbers will come that route, and it is a longer, more complicated route, I suppose. Also, I think they feel the UK will have more powers to deport such people when found (not that the UK didn't already have these powers in many cases).

Strazdas

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Former editor of the Sun more than hinting at an organised press campaign against Ireland and suggests it will ramp up further.

https://twitter.com/davidyelland/status/1156607348477169664


This is Cummings work I imagine. Everyone on song.

He makes the interesting point that the hard right press are attempting to deflect from their own involvement in the Brexit fiasco.

It would be interesting to hear the dynamics behind this : who has authorised the anti-Irish campaign, how involved are Cummings and Johnson, what do they hope to achieve by this etc

Strazdas

briany wrote: »

Yes. Couple of things: I think Brexiters don't believe anywhere near the numbers will come that route, and it is a longer, more complicated route, I suppose. Also, I think they feel the UK will have more powers to deport such people when found (not that the UK didn't already have these powers in many cases).

Don't forget Eastern European people will be perfectly free to travel to UK airports even after No Deal. Freedom of movement laws refer only to the right to work : there would be no need for such people to enter Britain via the ROI (waste of a plane ticket)

Stop moaning ffs

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Anyone got a link to Farage suggesting a border poll?

He didn’t suggest it. He held a phone in on it on his show on LBC. You can listen back to it on the LBC app. Might not be up til tomorrow

Capt'n Midnight

trashcan wrote: »

What’s clear from the BBC interview this morning is that the journalists simply don’t seem well enough informed to call them on it. All the interviewer this morning was really interested in was whether they were going to ask Boris for more money.

They should watch the video clip here to see the issues
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-49179805

Shipyard protesters joined with Irish language group An Dream Dearg for a bi-lingual demonstration. Can you imagine that happening a few years ago ? Times they are a changing.

Sábháil ar gclós !


There were also protests from other groups over the Irish language, Brexit and legacy. And the Ballymurphy Massacre.

RHI hasn't gone away either


Some good news for the North, a lot of people will sleep sounder tonight.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-49172186

Air France is to buy 60 Airbus A220s, the wings of which are made in Northern Ireland.

The airline has also taken options which could see its order rise to 120.

Laois_Man

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Anyone got a link to Farage suggesting a border poll?

It was all the usual......

ignorant statements about Sinn Fein

ignorant statements about what a border poll is and the fact that the Republic actually have to agree

And swatting away the hypocrisy of campaigning for "taking back control" and then saying they should leave a 300+ mile border open by ranting on about the two sides of the border having a different currency, different VAT and other tax rates, etc. and also how WTO allows no border in places of political sensitivity (he's said that a few times, I have yet to find it in any documentation)

briany

Strazdas wrote: »

Don't forget Eastern European people will be perfectly free to travel to UK airports even after No Deal. Freedom of movement laws refer only to the right to work : there would be no need for such people to enter Britain via the ROI (waste of a plane ticket)

Less reason to be worried about coming in via the unguarded NI border, if they're just going to take a direct flight. I think Brexiteers can be pretty easily convinced that Eastern Europeans who are rich enough to take a short holiday in the UK are perfectly fine, since they're contributing to the economy in a lawful way. They can also be convinced that the ones who intend on sticking around to pick spuds for 4p an hour or whatever will be swiftly dealt with in this new UK that will be a cold(er) house for all the undocumented.

But even then, the feeling I get is that when Brexiteers say Eastern European, they are mainly referring to Roma. That's first on the list under that umbrella.

An Claidheamh

Any chance RTÉ could get Bruce Arnold on air seeing as he lives in Ireland?

Also, there was some dope on Liveline today, an English man who lives here, claiming border is "Ireland’s problem" - callers had to remind him it's all their doing.

British generally don't integrate well to other cultures á la Spain, seems they are way too loyal to their backward media and its propaganda machine.