Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

eire4

brickster69 wrote: »

I never knew the US did hormone free beef. The guy said that the EU will be importing hormone free Beef

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1157354257689059331

I am not sure that they do at least on any kind of serious scale. The quality and health of their beef is horrible. They are the fast food nation and their beef is about as high in quality taste and health as any of their junk fast food outlets.

54and56

eagle eye wrote: »

You are limping people in there as calm, consistent and professional who don't deserve it, I'm talking about Leo and Neale.

I obviously disagree. Relative to BoJo, Steve Baker, Francois, Bridgen etc I think they have been exemplary.

prawnsambo

brickster69 wrote: »

I never knew the US did hormone free beef. The guy said that the EU will be importing hormone free Beef

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1157354257689059331

"Donald Trump has announced" should have you running for the fact checker. Probably strolling to it these days. I know it's RTE, but I think at best that this is some sort of interim agreement. And he doesn't have authority to conclude trade deals either.

Water John

These are the views of Philip Lee Tory MP former Minister;
One former cabinet minister said they believed swathes of seats were now at risk, including Cheltenham, Chippenham, Guildford and even Surrey Heath, the seat of Michael Gove.

“Threatening no deal essentially hands our core seats across the South West, South East and South Coast to the Lib Dems,” the ex-minister said. “We’ll lose tonnes of decent MPs. The Lib Dems will pick off lots of the big beasts in Surrey and have some spectacular gains. Worst of all the new Northern core will never materialise – the Labour vote is tribal. It’s a suicidal vote strategy. I’m beginning to think Dominic Cummings is a Lib Dem sleeper agent.”

BTW, yes US farmers do hormone free beef. Saw a docu on a farmer with four feedlots. Three were for the US market and the fourth, operated to EU Standards was going to The Netherlands.

prawnsambo

54&56 wrote: »

I obviously disagree. Relative to BoJo, Steve Baker, Francois, Bridgen etc I think they have been exemplary.

Some of those aren't in government. However you have the brains trust of Liz Truss, Dominic Raab, Priti (£1,000/hr) Patel, Nicky Morgan, Andrea Leadsom (shudder) and Steve Barclay to name but a few, I think it's worse than you are suggesting.

Inquitus

54&56 wrote: »

I obviously disagree. Relative to BoJo, Steve Baker, Francois, Bridgen etc I think they have been exemplary.

I agree, they have done us proud against an army of numptees!

WomanSkirtFan8

Inquitus wrote: »

I agree, they have done us proud against an army of numptees!

Agreed. They've been exceptional so far.

firemansam4

I've been keeping an eye on this thread for a while now, more as just a lurker.

I notice many here are hoping that if an election is called it may bring about another referendum.
But I don't think that another referendum would solve this brexit mess at all.
I just can't see any other outcome other than another majority for brexit.

The brexit crowd over there are treating this like a religion at this stage and you can guarantee that the vast majority of them would be out voting again on force in a 2nd referendum, its almost militant to them at this stage.

Where is all the opposition to brexit over there from remainers? I get the feeling that the turnout for remain voters would be a lot less. And it will end up just being a bigger margin for brexit in a second referendum leaving us all in the same mess we are at now.

FrancieBrady

firemansam4 wrote: »

I've been keeping an eye on this thread for a while now, more as just a lurker.

I notice many here are hoping that if an election is called it may bring about another referendum.
But I don't think that another referendum would solve this brexit mess at all.
I just can't see any other outcome other than another majority for brexit.

The brexit crowd over there are treating this like a religion at this stage and you can guarantee that the vast majority of them would be out voting again on force in a 2nd referendum, its almost militant to them at this stage.

Where is all the opposition to brexit over there from remainers? I get the feeling that the turnout for remain voters would be a lot less. And it will end up just being a bigger margin for brexit in a second referendum leaving us all in the same mess we are at now.

I agree here, the wider picture of history will show the mess wasn't Brexit, the mess was the UK itself.
It is paralysed because the core problem has been exposed, the England centric nature of the whole.

And I don't see how they are going to fix that tbh.

jm08

brickster69 wrote: »

I never knew the US did hormone free beef. The guy said that the EU will be importing hormone free Beef

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1157354257689059331

Its not really a trade deal as such. The agreement is that the EU which accept 45,000 tons of hormone-free beef from 3rd countries each year, will give the US 35,000 tons of that quota. There won't be extra beef coming into the EU.

President Donald Trump just announced a new deal under which the EU will accept a high number of American beef exports, a move that will surely increase profits for US farmers and related industries. The EU will accept 45,000 tons of hormone-free beef from foreign countries every year, and America will be allowed to fulfill 35,000 tons of that quota after seven years — roughly 80 percent of the total.
The agreement was originally reached in June and approved by EU members in July. On Friday, US Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer and his European counterpart made the deal official.

https://www.vox.com/2019/8/2/20751769/us-eu-beef-trade-deal-trump

Bit cynical

firemansam4 wrote: »

Where is all the opposition to brexit over there from remainers? I get the feeling that the turnout for remain voters would be a lot less. And it will end up just being a bigger margin for brexit in a second referendum leaving us all in the same mess we are at now.

I think it is important to remember that the Brexit side did win the referendum. Consequently there are not many that openly advocate a revocation of A50. Rather their tactic is to oppose any deal that might be done and then oppose leaving with no deal.

Enzokk

jm08 wrote: »

Its not really a trade deal as such. The agreement is that the EU which accept 45,000 tons of hormone-free beef from 3rd countries each year, will give the US 35,000 tons of that quota. There won't be extra beef coming into the EU.






https://www.vox.com/2019/8/2/20751769/us-eu-beef-trade-deal-trump

Does this exclude the amount allowed in from previous trade deals with, e.g. Canada?

BonnieSituation

J Mysterio wrote: »

Wow, it's an absolute disaster. Ignorance abounds.

My favourite [sic] one was the fellow who stressed that "partition was done for pragmatic" reasons.

Strazdas

Bit cynical wrote: »

I think it is important to remember that the Brexit side did win the referendum. Consequently there are not many that openly advocate a revocation of A50. Rather their tactic is to oppose any deal that might be done and then oppose leaving with no deal.

The UK has spent three years trying to implement the referendum result without success.

One wonders what it would take for the Brexit crowd to admit the thing they voted for was a disaster.

Water John

Well Raab was fact checked yesterday on his claim that a No Deal Brexit had often been mentioned by him in 2016. Largely a porkie.
What people thought they voted for and what they are getting now are very different.

reslfj

Enzokk wrote: »

Does this exclude the amount allowed in from previous trade deals with, e.g. Canada?

The 45.000 tons is a very small amount into a post Brexit - 450mill Single Market

Its 100 gram of beef per EU citizen per year.

The US has now 35.000 tons reserved out of the 45.000 tons.

Canada and Mercosur/Mercosul are no longer 3. countries after CETA and the new EU-Mercosur trade agreement has been signed.

Mercosur should get a 100.000 tons quota for beef (comments earlier in this thread)

But the history of the size of the 45.000 3. country quota or e.g. whether AR/BR/UY had their own quota or was included, is unknown to me.

I think, it is more interesting, who will have to share the just 10.000 tons beef, that remains of the 3. country quota.

Lars

Bit cynical

Strazdas wrote: »

The UK has spent three years trying to implement the referendum result without success.

One wonders what it would take for the Brexit crowd to admit the thing they voted for was a disaster.

Yes of course Brexit, particularly the no deal one it looks like we're heading towards, is going to be a disaster: a hard border in Ireland, problems exporting to the UK etc.

However, not really relevant to the question at hand though, in which a poster was wondering why remainers tended to be out of sight in the UK. The reason for this, I was suggesting, was that the referendum result, despite criticisms of Brexiteer methods, still carries a lot of political weight.

Remainer MPs in Westminster therefore tend to say that they are not going against the will of the people, but rather want to prevent a no deal brexit. These are usually the same ones that voted against the deal when it was presented to them.

Strazdas

Bit cynical wrote: »

Yes of course Brexit, particularly the no deal one it looks like we're heading towards, is going to be a disaster: a hard border in Ireland, problems exporting to the UK etc.

However, not really relevant to the question at hand though, in which a poster was wondering why remainers tended to be out of sight in the UK. The reason for this, I was suggesting, was that the referendum result, despite criticisms of Brexiteer methods, still carries a lot of political weight.

Remainer MPs in Westminster therefore tend to say that they are not going against the will of the people, but rather want to prevent a no deal brexit. These are usually the same ones that voted against the deal when it was presented to them.

There is a huge amount of denial and dishonesty going on. Nobody can admit that the voters might have made a mistake in 2016 or even allude to this. The mantra seems to be that if the electorate voted for it, then it must be a good idea as the public cannot possibly be wrong.

The fear seems to be of a voter backlash if they even dare go down this route. That is why all talk of revoking A50 has been banished : not because it would be a bad idea but the British public cannot be told they messed up.

Bit cynical

Strazdas wrote: »

There is a huge amount of denial and dishonesty going on. Nobody can admit that the voters might have made a mistake in 2016 or even allude to this. The mantra seems to be that if the electorate voted for it, then it must be a good idea as the public cannot possibly be wrong.

The fear seems to be of a voter backlash if they even dare go down this route. That is why all talk of revoking A50 has been banished : not because it would be a bad idea but the British public cannot be told they messed up.

Farage's Brexit party would love for, say, Corbyn to come out and say that he doesn't respect the referendum result, the people got it wrong and, if made PM, he Corbyn would revoke A50.

That is why it is not realistic to expect that to happen. We here in Ireland must deal with what is realistically going to happen and act accordingly in our interests.

eire4

jm08 wrote: »

Its not really a trade deal as such. The agreement is that the EU which accept 45,000 tons of hormone-free beef from 3rd countries each year, will give the US 35,000 tons of that quota. There won't be extra beef coming into the EU.






https://www.vox.com/2019/8/2/20751769/us-eu-beef-trade-deal-trump

Ahh ok that makes more sense now. Thanks for explaining that.

Panrich

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-ireland-can-stop-a-no-deal-brexit-here-s-how-1.3972121?mode=amp

Some out of the box thinking here. It would be delicious to see the angst this would cause in Westminster

Stop moaning ffs

BobbyBobberson wrote: »

https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1157287550714884096

This is the type muck bandied around by Tories. It is Brexit it all costs. And when it does go tits up, there will be two parties to blame. The EU and The Irish.

I can’t get over this tweet.
It should be shown to every DUP member and hardcore loyalist. This is what they think of you. They don’t care about you or the peace in the north at all.
When bombs start going off in Belfast and London, brexit fanatics like this guy should be held directly accountable.

It is truly a cult fanaticism at this stage

Stop moaning ffs

Panrich wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-ireland-can-stop-a-no-deal-brexit-here-s-how-1.3972121?mode=amp

Some out of the box thinking here. It would be delicious to see the angst this would cause in Westminster

I think Fintans great but this is a bit mad.
Maybe borne out of Mary Lou being asked on Marr a few months back why SF don’t take their seats.
She replied nobody in her party has any business taking seats in the Parliament of another country. Which opens up the ‘well then...why run in the elections?’

It is out of the box thinking but as others have said, the way things are and are headed suits SF completely.

No way they’ll agree to anything like this.


Oh. Then this. He has a point.

https://twitter.com/fotoole/status/1157547812269240320?s=21

lawred2

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I can’t get over this tweet.
It should be shown to every DUP member and hardcore loyalist. This is what they think of you. They don’t care about you or the peace in the north at all.
When bombs start going off in Belfast and London, brexit fanatics like this guy should be held directly accountable.

It is truly a cult fanaticism at this stage

Do the DUP care about peace? They stood against the GFA. Their words and actions in general aren't those of a peace loving party. They stand for Brexit against the wishes of NI as a whole.

I don't think British army regiments on the streets of NI would upset them too much. Given that they see them as being on 'their' side after all.

Brendan Filone

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Full interview with Jonathan Powell on newsnight. It’s so sad they don’t have even one among them who can compare with him.


‪ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPIGq_eiRBU‬

I sent this to a pro-Brexit colleague, his response:

"Powell is wrong and is simply regurgitating the Remain tactic of insisting there has to be hard border. Emily failed to challenge him on ROI/EU No Deal planning that already has theoretical discreet checks well away from the border, yep, no hard border. Someone will build hard border infrastructure when all sides say they won't? This is the kind of bollocks that has to be challenged, Maitlis swerved it, as she would. Her role was to facilitate Powell, not to rip him a new one."

Stop moaning ffs

Brendan Filone wrote: »

I sent this to a pro-Brexit colleague, his response:

"Powell is wrong and is simply regurgitating the Remain tactic of insisting there has to be hard border. Emily failed to challenge him on ROI/EU No Deal planning that already has theoretical discreet checks well away from the border, yep, no hard border. Someone will build hard border infrastructure when all sides say they won't? This is the kind of bollocks that has to be challenged, Maitlis swerved it, as she would. Her role was to facilitate Powell, not to rip him a new one."

There’s no getting through to that sort of hard headed brexiter

Enzokk

reslfj wrote: »

The 45.000 tons is a very small amount into a post Brexit - 450mill Single Market

Its 100 gram of beef per EU citizen per year.

The US has now 35.000 tons reserved out of the 45.000 tons.

Canada and Mercosur/Mercosul are no longer 3. countries after CETA and the new EU-Mercosur trade agreement has been signed.

Mercosur should get a 100.000 tons quota for beef (comments earlier in this thread)

But the history of the size of the 45.000 3. country quota or e.g. whether AR/BR/UY had their own quota or was included, is unknown to me.

I think, it is more interesting, who will have to share the just 10.000 tons beef, that remains of the 3. country quota.

Lars

Yeah, I thought that the meaning of 3rd country would mean any country that doesn't have a trade deal with the EU that would have quotas of goods included already.

So it could be that the US increase is more to do with other countries concluding their deals with the EU and allowing more space for the US to take up the existing quota that is spread among fewer countries.

As for the origin and quality of the beef, as long as the checks are done properly on the beef coming in, the same with the South American beef, it will be safe.

54and56

prawnsambo wrote: »

Some of those aren't in government. However you have the brains trust of Liz Truss, Dominic Raab, Priti (£1,000/hr) Patel, Nicky Morgan, Andrea Leadsom (shudder) and Steve Barclay to name but a few, I think it's worse than you are suggesting.

Yes, correct. Your list of actual govt participants is a better like for like comparison than mine. There are so many of them to choose from!!

Sam Russell

Brendan Filone wrote: »

I sent this to a pro-Brexit colleague, his response:

"Powell is wrong and is simply regurgitating the Remain tactic of insisting there has to be hard border. Emily failed to challenge him on ROI/EU No Deal planning that already has theoretical discreet checks well away from the border, yep, no hard border. Someone will build hard border infrastructure when all sides say they won't? This is the kind of bollocks that has to be challenged, Maitlis swerved it, as she would. Her role was to facilitate Powell, not to rip him a new one."

This just reflects Napoleon's view that England is a nation of shopkeepers. To the Little Englanders, everything is about trade.

In my view, the GFA can be summed up by this short maxim:

'Those that wish to look South see no border, while those that look East also see no border.'

The GFA is all about equality - equality of respect, equality of identity, equality of opportunity, etc. It is not about trade.

To the Brexiteers, Brexit is not about trade either, it is much more important than that - (whatever it is really about, if only they knew what is was really about).

Stop moaning ffs

Great read on the inevitable outcome of brexit for us.

https://twitter.com/johndurkan1/status/1157576476495101953?s=21