Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

jm08

lufties wrote: »

PMs not voted for democratically, like in Ireland varadkar was not voted in by the public.

Unlike the British system, the Taoiseach has to be voted in by the Dail, which isn't a given in the present situation, since Fine Gael do not have an overall majority in the Dail.

Immigration? The EU proposed fines for countries not taking their 'fair share' or so called refugees.

The UK got an opt out of that one. And they are not so-called refugees. In the case of the Irish authorities recently, Irish officials travelled to Greece to interview them and they were selected to come to Ireland because they are genuine refugees. I presume the British use a similar system.

EU nation waters are centrally controlled by the EU. Individual nations dont have a say. Hence the influx of Spanish trawlers in Irish waters. I'd give individual control of their surrounding waters.

They can influx all they like, but they can't take out more than their quota. You may have seen recently Irish navy arresting Northern Ireland fishermen boats who were illegally fishing in the ROI's waters.

Kermit.de.frog

Varadkar has just been speaking and says Withdrawal Agreement is closed. Only political declaration can be added to.

https://twitter.com/RedboxWire/status/1158703949551038464

https://twitter.com/WilliamsJon/status/1158705466937135104

Imreoir2

lufties wrote: »

So a troll is someone with a differing opinion. Would you prefer an echo chamber?

No, a troll is someone who posts in a needlessly provocative style with the intention of disrupting discussion.

I could go around fatuously shouting about Brexit being an ABOMINATION, promoted by a CABAL OF CONMEN. I could insist on refering to Johnson as the BLOND BIMBO. I could make pointless statements ad nasueam about the UK being LUCKY that the EU is willing to give their failed state a backstop deal so that they might limp on for another few years before their country DISENTEGRATES.

It might agree with the general anti-Brexit tone of the thread, but it would still be trolling becasue it would really add nothing to the descussion and is only done with the hope of rileing up the opposing point of view.

trellheim

Imreoir2 wrote: »

No, a troll is someone who posts in a needlessly provocative style with the intention of disrupting discussion.

I could go around fatuously shouting about Brexit being an ABOMINATION, promoted by a CABAL OF CONMEN. I could insist on refering to Johnson as the BLOND BIMBO. I could make pointless statements ad nasueam about the UK being LUCKY that the EU is willing to give their failed state a backstop deal so that they might limp on for another few years before their country DISENTEGRATES.

It might agree with the general anti-Brexit tone of the thread, but it would still be trolling becasue it would really add nothing to the descussion and is only done with the hope of rileing up the opposing point of view.

I chuckled at DISENTEGRATES , we need some light humour.

In other news Gove is 'saddened' by EU refusing to negotiate https://twitter.com/RedboxWire/status/1158703198569283585

I have to tell you my emotions are not the same as Michael Gove's

jobeenfitz

Brexit won't happen in October unless Boris is really mad!

We had a period of pretend and extend because the European and probably the worlds financial markets were a basket case. Now things have improved but it is not secure and stable.

Britain and Europe do not know exactly what wil happen after brexit, unknown unknowns.

So if they can't prevent a brexit without a deal, an orderly brexit, we will continue the pretend and extend mode.

Gerry Adams grandson could be Prime Minister of Great Britain and all of Ireland by the time the 2nd referendum is called on withdrawal:

trellheim

Brexit won't happen in October unless Boris is really mad!

You are going to have to tell us what will happen

1. Revoke A50
2. Ask for extension
3. Accept WA
4. Unicorns/some other BS

Pick 1-4 or tell us what else is out there

Imreoir2

golfball37 wrote: »

3 years on and it still boils down to resentment in Ireland and the Eu for the UK having the temerity to upset their little world domination project by seeking to go it alone. For it to be this difficult to leave a so called trade organisation should set off alarms, or failing that at the very least sensible debate. The groupthink in Ireland is staggering towards the British people wishing to assert their democratic right to Independence. Leo overplayed his hand here and I wish it would be called out by some at home instead of the cheerleading.

It's not dificult to leave. All it took was a letter from the British PM. The UK could have forgone the entire process and left with no deal three years ago. That the UK choose not to do so, and is convulsed by the decision to leave is not evidence that the EU makes it impossible to leave, it is evidence that membership of the EU is hugely beneficial and that the UK has utterly failed to figure out how to leave without causng massive damage to itself.

If anyone is overplaying their hand, it is the UK. If you think they will do great outside the EU, then what the hell is taking them so long? Why did they ask for an extension in March? Off they go now, and good luck, let's see how long it takes before they come back looking for a deal.

Imreoir2

brickster69 wrote: »

It just keeps getting better.

City of London has hit record highs in the trading of Chinese currency

Up 45% on last year to £74 Billion / day

https://news.cityoflondon.gov.uk/london-retains-its-rmb-crown-in-face-of-brexit-uncertainty/

Great to see what the UK can do as a member of the EU, is'nt it?

Russman

golfball37 wrote: »

3 years on and it still boils down to resentment in Ireland and the Eu for the UK having the temerity to upset their little world domination project by seeking to go it alone. For it to be this difficult to leave a so called trade organisation should set off alarms, or failing that at the very least sensible debate. The groupthink in Ireland is staggering towards the British people wishing to assert their democratic right to Independence. Leo overplayed his hand here and I wish it would be called out by some at home instead of the cheerleading.

Nobody is stopping the UK going it alone, but they don't get to keep all the benefits of being in a club after they leave. I think its the temerity of leaving and wanting to dictate the terms they'd like to leave under that has poeples' goat up tbh.

Also, what's the nonsense about Leo overplaying his hand though ? I see that a lot and have no idea what it means in the real world. His hand in what ? Negotiations are over.

As for the world domination thing - its more survival against the likes of the US, China, India. World domination wasn't such a problem for the UK in the days of the empire when they were the ones doing the dominating.

Seth Brundle

trellheim wrote: »

You are going to have to tell us what will happen

1. Revoke A50
2. Ask for extension
3. Accept WA
4. Unicorns/some other BS

Pick 1-4 or tell us what else is out there

In terms of #2, this has to be approved by the other 27 states and I'm wondering if they would get 27 votes!

VinLieger

Seth Brundle wrote: »

In terms of #2, this has to be approved by the other 27 states and I'm wondering if they would get 27 votes!

Macron has pretty much said no more extensions unless something changes like an election or 2nd referendum

brickster69

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Great to see what the UK can do as a member of the EU, is'nt it?

There is no borders or tariffs for financial services. Business go where it is best for them.
Take Switzerland for example, they have a FS market bigger than all of the EU put together. EU blocks FS Swiss trade in Europe and the Swiss do likewise.

Same with London. in the end they will become like China were

murphaph

lufties wrote: »

Being able to make your own laws and policies and borders, and not be dictated to by unelected dictators who worship marxist ideology.

I'm Irish and living in England. Life is better here for me as there is more opportunities, diversity of thought, and salaries are better (in my industry). Ireland is being used as a weapon by the EU, and in my opinion Varadkar couldn't give a monkeys about Ireland. SNIP. No insults please.

The UK has great potential outside the EU, Ireland will be left behind as the EU lap dog. I've lived in Germany, and trust me they are ruthless. Germany is a cold, soulless place where wages are terrible. I've seen co workers search through bins to get plastic bottles to exchange. People are on the bread line there. The elites in Brussels want a new age, sophisticated version of communism. No thanks.

What a load of rubbish (my bold). I think you just worked for an awful company.

Shelga

Is it worth moving a UK pension across to Ireland now, before the UK leaves with (likely) no deal?

Or is now the worst time, and if you’re not due to retire for several decades you should just leave it where it is?

ambro25

brickster69 wrote: »

There is no borders or tariffs for financial services. Business go where it is best for them.
Take Switzerland for example, they have a FS market bigger than all of the EU put together. EU blocks FS Swiss trade in Europe and the Swiss do likewise.

Same with London. in the end they will become like China were

Are you familiar with the expression 'non-tarriff barriers'?

They do for cross-border services, what tarriffs do for goods, and are *not* covered by WTO provisions and FTAs (but by multilateral and bilateral sectorial international agreements).

You might want to check out where Swiss traders had for years and years routed their EU instruments-based deals (4 letters, begins with C, ends in y, UK location)...until they started to prefer Frankfurt and Paris over the past 18 months.

Do we really have to go through and debunk the whole battery of Leave fallacies again?

peterofthebr

hi just wondering .. i was thinking of maybe buying 2nd tractor from the uk (with the sterling reaching party)- but does anyone know what tarrifs might need to be paid on top of the current cost of machinery - in event of a no deal...looking to spend about €22,000 thanks

LuckyLloyd

First Up wrote: »

You are a bit late.

Late, but never too late to salvage something. As the political situation continues to deteriorate Sterling will continue to fall. We’ve still got tailbacks at Dover, public panic, essential goods / service shortages and eventually troops on the streets ahead assuming they stay on their current course.

If you have significant assets in the UK, get rid of them now.

ambro25

Shelga wrote: »

Is it worth moving a UK pension across to Ireland now, before the UK leaves with (likely) no deal?

Or is now the worst time, and if you’re not due to retire for several decades you should just leave it where it is?

As noted a monent ago, you're a bit late about asking yourself this, I'm afraid. Especially if we're talking a 'proper' private pension, rather than a savings account or some other quickly-windable/cashable product.

Done it last year myself and it can take a good while (to the point I doubt you have enough time left if they leave on H'ween).

I seem to recall that QROPs will not survive Brexit day, meaning that post-Brexit, your UK pension pot gets UK-taxed 25% before leaving for Ireland (or elsewhere in EU27).

Not something you should consider without solid + independent financial advice. It's complex, and rules+forms -heavy.

Water John

Grieve putting a Govn't of national unity out there is interesting. It probably would be only for one job, to extend Art 50 and have a GE.
Could see Lb and SNP buying into that.

Enzokk

You have to wonder if these types of warnings will ever reach the intended targets.

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1158620998243102721?s=20

Former US Trade Secretary calling into question the UK's tactics and also saying that they will not replace the EU trade with a US trade deal. I could quote Gove here in experts, but it really is beyond funny by now.

murphaph

lufties wrote: »

What benefits exactly? Health cover? Yes, up to a point. The same as the NHS in the UK, which is also covered by taxation. Your sound goes further in the UK also.

Well I can say with certainty that in my job (developer) I could not possibly enjoy the same standard of living in Dublin or London as I do in Berlin.

Nice big (new build) house (250m² including basement) in suburban town on 1500m² site with 29 minute train ride to central Berlin and my office.

My children have free Kindergarten care. They get a free travel pass in school (kids up to 6 travel free). Free after school care which also operates in place of school during the holidays. In school the class sizes are limited. My son started in Primary (age 6 as is the norm here) just yesterday. 21/22 kids in his class and the other 4 1st classes. There's the teacher and also a teaching assistant for each of the 4 classes. School meals are nourishing (no fried crap like in UK schools).

You can't compare the NHS to our healthcare system, sorry. We have no waiting times for surgical procedures. We have specialist doctors in the community. I can get an MRI in the next town over. Don't need to go to hospital for a huge range of things you can only be treated in hospital for in the UK/Ireland.

Children don't go to a GP. They go to a pediatrician in the community. They assess not just their physical well-being but also their development.

If you call an ambulance here you will usually have both the ambulance crew and an emergency doctor. In the case of calls for children this is standard practice in fact. Waiting times for ambulances are regulated by law. The Bundesländer are responsible for adherence and are obliged to provide additional ambulance bases/vehicles as necessary.

We have our own ambulance station in our small suburban town of ca. 10k. This is not unusual.

I pay €900 a year for my travel pass, valid on all regional trains, metros, trams, buses and even ferries in the whole greater Berlin area. I can even take another adult and up to 3 children along after 8pm weekdays and all day weekends and public holidays.

How much is an Oyster card again?

A Dub in Glasgo

^^^
I want to move to Berlin!!

I am a very exposed to this, I have a job interview next week for a pretty good job in Dublin but any savings I had hoped to use is getting decimated by the Sterling loss

storker

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Aside there's definitely an organised campaign against Ireland in media and Internet.

Thankfully, I don't see any evidence of it working, perhaps because the claims it makes are so feeble e.g. Leo "overplaying his hand" and needing to "dial back the rhetoric", or Ireland having "sold itself to the EU", when all that is happening is that Ireland is acting to look after its own interests as nation states tend to do, and just as the the UK is doing (or imagines it is).

Enzokk

Talking of Gove, here he is in 2016 claiming the UK will be able to dictate the terms of a deal with the EU. And just today I believe, being sad that the EU seems unwilling to cede to the terms of the UK negotiating position.

https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1158720819364806659?s=20

MrMusician18

Enzokk wrote: »

You have to wonder if these types of warnings will ever reach the intended targets.

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1158620998243102721?s=20

Former US Trade Secretary calling into question the UK's tactics and also saying that they will not replace the EU trade with a US trade deal. I could quote Gove here in experts, but it really is beyond funny by now.

There is no wondering at this stage. Warnings have been given for the past 3 years and roundly ignored, nothing has changed so this warning will be treated similarly.

lawred2

murphaph wrote: »

Well I can say with certainty that in my job (developer) I could not possibly enjoy the same standard of living in Dublin or London as I do in Berlin.

Nice big (new build) house (250m² including basement) in suburban town on 1500m² site with 29 minute train ride to central Berlin and my office.

My children have free Kindergarten care. They get a free travel pass in school (kids up to 6 travel free). Free after school care which also operates in place of school during the holidays. In school the class sizes are limited. My son started in Primary (age 6 as is the norm here) just yesterday. 21/22 kids in his class and the other 4 1st classes. There's the teacher and also a teaching assistant for each of the 4 classes. School meals are nourishing (no fried crap like in UK schools).

You can't compare the NHS to our healthcare system, sorry. We have no waiting times for surgical procedures. We have specialist doctors in the community. I can get an MRI in the next town over. Don't need to go to hospital for a huge range of things you can only be treated in hospital for in the UK/Ireland.

Children don't go to a GP. They go to a pediatrician in the community. They assess not just their physical well-being but also their development.

If you call an ambulance here you will usually have both the ambulance crew and an emergency doctor. In the case of calls for children this is standard practice in fact. Waiting times for ambulances are regulated by law. The Bundesländer are responsible for adherence and are obliged to provide additional ambulance bases/vehicles as necessary.

We have our own ambulance station in our small suburban town of ca. 10k. This is not unusual.

I pay €900 a year for my travel pass, valid on all regional trains, metros, trams, buses and even ferries in the whole greater Berlin area. I can even take another adult and up to 3 children along after 8pm weekdays and all day weekends and public holidays.

How much is an Oyster card again?

Interesting. A lot in that that would appeal to me and my wife with our three kids.

How is your German? Were you fluent before going over?

Nody

peterofthebr wrote: »

hi just wondering .. i was thinking of maybe buying 2nd tractor from the uk (with the sterling reaching party)- but does anyone know what tarrifs might need to be paid on top of the current cost of machinery - in event of a no deal...looking to spend about €22,000 thanks

Hard to say exactly but this is from the EU WTO tariffs on tractors to give an idea at least with rates between 0 and 16% but don't take that as truth because the actual classification is what will matter:

Reporter Year HS-code level HS version HS code Average of AV Duties Minimum AV Duty Maximum AV Duty % HS code description
European Union 2018 4 HS17 8701 4,6 0 16 Tractors (other than tractors of heading 87.09).
European Union 2018 6 HS17 870110 3,0 3 3 Pedestrian-controlled agricultural tractors and similar tractors for industry (excl. tractor units for articulated lorries)
European Union 2018 6 HS17 870120 16,0 16 16 Road tractors for semi-trailers
European Union 2018 6 HS17 870130 0,0 0 0 Track-laying tractors (excl. pedestrian-controlled)
European Union 2018 6 HS17 870191 3,5 0 7 Tractors, of an engine power <= 18 kW (excl. those of heading 8709, pedestrian-controlled tractors, road tractors for semi-trailers and track-laying tractors)
European Union 2018 6 HS17 870192 3,5 0 7 Tractors, of an engine power > 18 kW but <= 37 kW (excl. those of heading 8709, pedestrian-controlled tractors, road tractors for semi-trailers and track-laying tractors)
European Union 2018 6 HS17 870193 3,5 0 7 Tractors, of an engine power > 37 kW but <= 75 kW (excl. those of heading 8709, pedestrian-controlled tractors, road tractors for semi-trailers and track-laying tractors)
European Union 2018 6 HS17 870194 3,5 0 7 Tractors, of an engine power > 75 kW but <= 130 kW (excl. those of heading 8709, pedestrian-controlled tractors, road tractors for semi-trailers and track-laying tractors)
European Union 2018 6 HS17 870195 3,5 0 7 Tractors, of an engine power > 130 kW (excl. those of heading 8709, pedestrian-controlled tractors, road tractors for semi-trailers and track-laying tractors)

abff

golfball37 wrote: »

3 years on and it still boils down to resentment in Ireland and the Eu for the UK having the temerity to upset their little world domination project by seeking to go it alone. For it to be this difficult to leave a so called trade organisation should set off alarms, or failing that at the very least sensible debate. The groupthink in Ireland is staggering towards the British people wishing to assert their democratic right to Independence. Leo overplayed his hand here and I wish it would be called out by some at home instead of the cheerleading.

Resentment has nothing to do with it. It's the difficulties that will be caused for everyone that people are concerned about.

I'm surprised that you are buying into the British rhetoric and the propaganda that they are throwing out.

BobbyBobberson

I imagine the people that have overplayed their hand is the country which is about to crash out of the largest, richest trading bloc.

road_high

storker wrote: »

Thankfully, I don't see any evidence of it working, perhaps because the claims it makes are so feeble e.g. Leo "overplaying his hand" and needing to "dial back the rhetoric", or Ireland having "sold itself to the EU", when all that is happening is that Ireland is acting to look after its own interests as nation states tend to do, and just as the the UK is doing (or imagines it is).

If anything it’s having the opposite effect. Making people more resolute and supportive of the govt position. Same for the EU colleagues.
It’s only idiots like Eoin Harris going along with this rubbish, loons with an axe to grind against the EU