Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Seth Brundle

peterofthebr wrote: »

hi just wondering .. i was thinking of maybe buying 2nd tractor from the uk (with the sterling reaching party)- but does anyone know what tarrifs might need to be paid on top of the current cost of machinery - in event of a no deal...looking to spend about €22,000 thanks

We don't know what tariffs the UK will apply as they previously mentioned how they would also have zero percent tariffs to encourage trade (although this won't incentivise any trade deals so is pretty much unworkable).
Not sure what the WTO standard tarrif for agricultural machinery would be but if you buy second hand (which I assume is the case) then would tariffs be applicable so soon after leaving (on something that was originally sold within the EU)?

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

^^^
I want to move to Berlin!!

I am a very exposed to this, I have a job interview next week for a pretty good job in Dublin but any savings I had hoped to use is getting decimated by the Sterling loss

I'd actually recommend converting your savings into something more stable (at this point possibly even bitcoin!) to be honest.

murphaph

lawred2 wrote: »

Interesting. A lot in that that would appeal to me and my wife with our three kids.

How is your German? Were you fluent before going over?

I speak fluent German after being here 10 years but I could not speak it when I moved over.

briany

robinph wrote: »

Not if there was a big sign and barriers around that object saying "don't go here, you'll trip up and hurt yourself". If you insist on pulling down the sign, climbing over the barriers and hurling yourself at the object that that is entirely your own fault.

Those signs and barriers were just project fear.

fly_agaric

peterofthebr wrote: »

hi just wondering .. i was thinking of maybe buying 2nd tractor from the uk (with the sterling reaching party)- but does anyone know what tarrifs might need to be paid on top of the current cost of machinery - in event of a no deal...looking to spend about €22,000 thanks

Very small chance of a customs expert seeing that post and answering:pac:
It gets very complicated as there's a load of classification codes for everything under the sun that (combined with origin of the goods) set tariff & the customs procedures needed to be followed etc.

Anyway if you want to read about it they have a fair bit of information on Revenue website here (because of Brexit):

https://revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/brexit/trade-with-the-uk/index.aspx

and in this document about import procedures ("importing" in this context being getting something brought in from a non EU state):

https://revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/documents/import-procedures-guide.pdf

Am definitely no expert so take what follows with a very large grain of salt as always on the internet:
I did look up the EU TARIC classifcation code database https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/taric_consultation.jsp?Lang=en#

From what I could see it was code

• 8701201000 for a new tractor
• 8701209000 for a used tractor

and it is 16 % for import from 3rd country. Maybe do it before Brexit? (or get it from EU state if after a "no deal" crash out?)

edit: only spent a little while on that; they may well call "tractors" something else in there and have it under a different code...as said it is complicated.

road_high

golfball37 wrote: »

3 years on and it still boils down to resentment in Ireland and the Eu for the UK having the temerity to upset their little world domination project by seeking to go it alone. For it to be this difficult to leave a so called trade organisation should set off alarms, or failing that at the very least sensible debate. The groupthink in Ireland is staggering towards the British people wishing to assert their democratic right to Independence. Leo overplayed his hand here and I wish it would be called out by some at home instead of the cheerleading.

The more the English write and champion tripe like this the more the Irish people will support the (completely logical) govt position. No one is stopping you leaving tmoro but you’ll have to deal with all the consequences- which you are absolutely unwilling to do

Irish Praetorian

peterofthebr wrote: »

hi just wondering .. i was thinking of maybe buying 2nd tractor from the uk (with the sterling reaching party)- but does anyone know what tarrifs might need to be paid on top of the current cost of machinery - in event of a no deal...looking to spend about €22,000 thanks

Are you VAT registered? The tarriffs might be a bit unclear at this point but you could potentially be better off buying sooner rather than later.

Nody

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Not sure what the WTO standard tarrif for agricultural machinery would be but if you buy second hand (which I assume is the case) then would tariffs be applicable so soon after leaving (on something that was originally sold within the EU)?

If it was bought and paid in an EU country (excl. UK obviously) and imported I think they can possibly get it back tariff free but under all other circumstances I think it would end up hit with a tariff. Obviously final tariff type, size and requirements would only be known by the Customs office at the time and there could potentially be other non tariff issues such as certification of exhaust etc. as well coming into play as well and I'd highly recommend having a conversation with Customs before any such big import.

road_high

abff wrote: »

Resentment has nothing to do with it. It's the difficulties that will be caused for everyone that people are concerned about.

I'm surprised that you are buying into the British rhetoric and the propaganda that they are throwing out.

People believe what they want to believe. Brexit is like a strange cult where nothing is questioned and logic goes out the window

road_high

serfboard wrote: »

Well it spooked Timmy Dooley - the feckin eejit.

He embarrassed himself majorly with that. Failed political point scoring was all that was

lawred2

murphaph wrote: »

I speak fluent German after being here 10 years but I could not speak it when I moved over.

any jobs going?

Bit cynical

jobeenfitz wrote: »

Brexit won't happen in October unless Boris is really mad!

We had a period of pretend and extend because the European and probably the worlds financial markets were a basket case. Now things have improved but it is not secure and stable.

Britain and Europe do not know exactly what wil happen after brexit, unknown unknowns.

So if they can't prevent a brexit without a deal, an orderly brexit, we will continue the pretend and extend mode.

Gerry Adams grandson could be Prime Minister of Great Britain and all of Ireland by the time the 2nd referendum is called on withdrawal:

I don't think Johnson will ask to extend A50. He's staked too much on leaving on the stated date.

Nor will the WA be accepted before that date. Johnson does not have the power to push it through parliament.

Nor will the EU blink and accept a renegotiation.

This means Brexit of some sort in October unless Johnson and his government is removed. I think, however, Johnson will pull a fast one at the last minute. Something that no one is expecting.

VinLieger

murphaph wrote: »

Well I can say with certainty that in my job (developer) I could not possibly enjoy the same standard of living in Dublin or London as I do in Berlin.

Nice big (new build) house (250m² including basement) in suburban town on 1500m² site with 29 minute train ride to central Berlin and my office.

My children have free Kindergarten care. They get a free travel pass in school (kids up to 6 travel free). Free after school care which also operates in place of school during the holidays. In school the class sizes are limited. My son started in Primary (age 6 as is the norm here) just yesterday. 21/22 kids in his class and the other 4 1st classes. There's the teacher and also a teaching assistant for each of the 4 classes. School meals are nourishing (no fried crap like in UK schools).

You can't compare the NHS to our healthcare system, sorry. We have no waiting times for surgical procedures. We have specialist doctors in the community. I can get an MRI in the next town over. Don't need to go to hospital for a huge range of things you can only be treated in hospital for in the UK/Ireland.

Children don't go to a GP. They go to a pediatrician in the community. They assess not just their physical well-being but also their development.

If you call an ambulance here you will usually have both the ambulance crew and an emergency doctor. In the case of calls for children this is standard practice in fact. Waiting times for ambulances are regulated by law. The Bundesländer are responsible for adherence and are obliged to provide additional ambulance bases/vehicles as necessary.

We have our own ambulance station in our small suburban town of ca. 10k. This is not unusual.

I pay €900 a year for my travel pass, valid on all regional trains, metros, trams, buses and even ferries in the whole greater Berlin area. I can even take another adult and up to 3 children along after 8pm weekdays and all day weekends and public holidays.

How much is an Oyster card again?

If the result of a future federalised Europe is all of the above existing in Ireland sign me up

ancapailldorcha

murphaph wrote: »

Well I can say with certainty that in my job (developer) I could not possibly enjoy the same standard of living in Dublin or London as I do in Berlin.

Nice big (new build) house (250m² including basement) in suburban town on 1500m² site with 29 minute train ride to central Berlin and my office.

My children have free Kindergarten care. They get a free travel pass in school (kids up to 6 travel free). Free after school care which also operates in place of school during the holidays. In school the class sizes are limited. My son started in Primary (age 6 as is the norm here) just yesterday. 21/22 kids in his class and the other 4 1st classes. There's the teacher and also a teaching assistant for each of the 4 classes. School meals are nourishing (no fried crap like in UK schools).

You can't compare the NHS to our healthcare system, sorry. We have no waiting times for surgical procedures. We have specialist doctors in the community. I can get an MRI in the next town over. Don't need to go to hospital for a huge range of things you can only be treated in hospital for in the UK/Ireland.

Children don't go to a GP. They go to a pediatrician in the community. They assess not just their physical well-being but also their development.

If you call an ambulance here you will usually have both the ambulance crew and an emergency doctor. In the case of calls for children this is standard practice in fact. Waiting times for ambulances are regulated by law. The Bundesländer are responsible for adherence and are obliged to provide additional ambulance bases/vehicles as necessary.

We have our own ambulance station in our small suburban town of ca. 10k. This is not unusual.

I pay €900 a year for my travel pass, valid on all regional trains, metros, trams, buses and even ferries in the whole greater Berlin area. I can even take another adult and up to 3 children along after 8pm weekdays and all day weekends and public holidays.

How much is an Oyster card again?

That all sounds too good to be true to be honest. Well done!

I've started widening my job search outside the UK/Ireland but my area doesn't really exist outside Southern England irritatingly.

peterofthebr

..just another one i have gold+ silver position with bullionvault there a uk company but have global clients/customers in and outside the EU...but just wondering if anyone else had gold/silver on their books..

storker

Bit cynical wrote: »

I don't think Johnson will ask to extend A50. He's staked too much on leaving on the stated date.

Nor will the WA be accepted before that date. Johnson does not have the power to push it through parliament.

Nor will the EU blink and accept a renegotiation.

This means Brexit of some sort in October unless Johnson and his government is removed. I think, however, Johnson will pull a fast one at the last minute. Something that no one is expecting.

If I was a betting man I'd be putting my money on Johnson accepting the backstop but for Northern Ireland only. The trouble is, with the DUP dead-set against it (another case of "f*** business"), he would need support from Labour and the Liberal Democrats to get it through, so a general election would be needed first.

Strazdas

murphaph wrote: »

Well I can say with certainty that in my job (developer) I could not possibly enjoy the same standard of living in Dublin or London as I do in Berlin.

Nice big (new build) house (250m² including basement) in suburban town on 1500m² site with 29 minute train ride to central Berlin and my office.

My children have free Kindergarten care. They get a free travel pass in school (kids up to 6 travel free). Free after school care which also operates in place of school during the holidays. In school the class sizes are limited. My son started in Primary (age 6 as is the norm here) just yesterday. 21/22 kids in his class and the other 4 1st classes. There's the teacher and also a teaching assistant for each of the 4 classes. School meals are nourishing (no fried crap like in UK schools).

You can't compare the NHS to our healthcare system, sorry. We have no waiting times for surgical procedures. We have specialist doctors in the community. I can get an MRI in the next town over. Don't need to go to hospital for a huge range of things you can only be treated in hospital for in the UK/Ireland.

Children don't go to a GP. They go to a pediatrician in the community. They assess not just their physical well-being but also their development.

If you call an ambulance here you will usually have both the ambulance crew and an emergency doctor. In the case of calls for children this is standard practice in fact. Waiting times for ambulances are regulated by law. The Bundesländer are responsible for adherence and are obliged to provide additional ambulance bases/vehicles as necessary.

We have our own ambulance station in our small suburban town of ca. 10k. This is not unusual.

I pay €900 a year for my travel pass, valid on all regional trains, metros, trams, buses and even ferries in the whole greater Berlin area. I can even take another adult and up to 3 children along after 8pm weekdays and all day weekends and public holidays.

How much is an Oyster card again?

The public transport in Berlin is out of this world. I was there last September and one day ticket covers you on everything for the day. I was even able to head down to Potsdam on the same ticket.

We should introduce the same system in Dublin : one ticket for Dublin Bus, the Luas and the DART (and the airport bus too)

Bit cynical

storker wrote: »

If I was a betting man I'd be putting my money on Johnson accepting the backstop but for Northern Ireland only. The trouble is, with the DUP dead-set against it (another case of "f*** business"), he would need support from Labour and the Liberal Democrats to get it through, so a general election would be needed first.

Plus he's still got to get the overall WA through parliament and with Labour against it and a significant minority in his own party against it, that is very unlikely. And although he voted for it in the last vote, I think he did so knowing it would lose. I don't think he's a big fan of the WA either. What he's doing is making a virtue out of something he's more or less forced into.

Therefore if it is not a hard brexit, it will be something that no one is expecting.

ambro25

lawred2 wrote: »

any jobs going?

Well if it's devs, Luxembourg is crying out for them and paying through the nose for good ones.

All the good bits of Germany highlighted by murphaph, but then higher cost of living than Germany (still nowhere near Paris/London, that said: housing is expensive, maybe Dublin-expensive, but not London or Paris-expensive; rest of things is comparable to Midlands/North Notts: more than neighbouring France or Belgium, but other advantages (no land or council taxes in Lux) and then that's what FoM gives you: live in Lux, shop in Be, dine in Fra).

Fluent English spoken everywhere, incl. public services and their websites.

Top level public services, healthcare and free (international) schooling. My daughter's been in the system since last year, Lux official curriculum (learning Lux/French/German), English-language stream, class size 15-18.

Top continental destinations all within 1 hour (plane) to 2 hours (high speed train) away.

As of March next year, free multimodal public transport everywhere nationally up to country border.

About 49% of residents are non-Luxembourg born (and aside from a lot of Portuguese & Brazilians in south west of country, it's a pretty heterogeneous mix of EU & non-EU).

Then you need to check the family social care levels (not means-tested), the state pension levels and provisions.

And if Brits or German think that they're *the* reigning european petrolheads...they've never travelled here.

The Brits can keep asking: we're keeping all the unicorns.

PS: alright, the flipside. It's kinda quiet, don't come here for Paris- or Berlin-level partying/nightlife.

ancapailldorcha

ambro25 wrote: »

Well if it's devs, Luxembourg is crying out for them and paying through the nose for good ones.

All the good bits of Germany highlighted by murphaph, higher cost of living than Germany but nowhere near Paris/London, fluent English spoken everywhere, top level public services, healthcare and free (international) schooling. Top continental destinations all within 1 hour (plane) to 2 hours (high speed train) away. As of March next year, free public transport everywhere nationally up to country border. About 49% of residents are non-Luxembourg born (and aside from Portuguese, it's a pretty heterogeneous mix of EU & non-EU). Then you need to check the family social care levels (not means-tested), the state pension levels and provisions. And if Brits or German think that they're *the* reigning european petrolheads...they've never travelled here.

The Brits can keep asking: we're keeping all the unicorns.

Would there be much for people who are not in development or IT in general d'you reckon?

Lackadaisical

I'd love to know what exactly the UK thinks it's offering the EU. So far it's been openly nasty, hostile and utterly duplicitous and underhand in how it's dealt with the EU. It's been about pulling a fast one and doing maximum damage to Europe (which is us).

They talk about wanting negotiations but they've already agreed things and then turned those things they've agreed to and even designed into yet more political attacks on the EU.

Why exactly would the EU want to enter some kind of binding trade deal with a 3rd party that is this hostile to us? The EU isn't desperate for this deal and if it is done it will be done in a way that has to be beneficial to the 27 members. We don't owe the UK a free lunch and we certainly don't need to undermine the entire EU to enter some kind of weird structural arrangements either.

Nobody sane wants to walk into a big trading mess and everyone's very keen to resolve Northern Ireland's exposure but there's only so much that can be done.

I honestly think that the current UK government isn't negotiable with. It's way too jingoistic and agresssive. It's capable of being utterly two-faced, spinning and lying to attempt to manipulate rather than be facts and reason based and to make matters worse it has an incredibly weak mandate.

It's already been seen that when you negotiate with a prime minister, they don't have a true majority in Westminster so they were unable to get any deal over the line.

Unless there's a major change in the UK political world, and I'm not seeing that happening before Halloween, I think we're into a no deal scenario and at best some kind of belt and braces and hoc temporary mess to try and mitigate an economic shock, but that's all it will be.

Joe_ Public

Talking of public transport, i read an article about Vienna recently in which it was mentioned that residents pay E1 per day for their travel pass, or E365 for an annual pass. The prices for tourists or other day trippers are fairly steep, which helps subsidize it. As far as i know their public transport systems dont run huge deficits like those here or across the pond. Go figure.

ambro25

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Would there be much for people who are not in development or IT in general d'you reckon?

If you're not IT or finance (assets management/insurance trader/corpo.banking) not that much.

But they're crying out for good teachers, and the (very young & very well funded) University seems to always have requirements for good/experienced staff.

ancapailldorcha

ambro25 wrote: »

If you're not IT or finance (assets management/insurance trader/corpo.banking) not that much.

But they're crying out for good teachers, and the (very young & very well funded) University seems to always have requirements for good/experienced staff.

Yeah, figured. My background is biological sciences research which is unfortunately not terribly sought after or lucrative.

maynooth_rules

Bit cynical wrote: »

I don't think Johnson will ask to extend A50. He's staked too much on leaving on the stated date.

Nor will the WA be accepted before that date. Johnson does not have the power to push it through parliament.

Nor will the EU blink and accept a renegotiation.

This means Brexit of some sort in October unless Johnson and his government is removed. I think, however, Johnson will pull a fast one at the last minute. Something that no one is expecting.

Backstop confined completly to Northern Ireland. Essentially the WA other than that. DUP thrown under the bus but may get brexit through with enough support from Labour MPs worried about their seats in leave areas. Then election in November with Borris saying he had delivered brexit. Sammy Wilson to turn an all new colour of red

Joe_ Public

I suspect people are overstating the likelihood of Johnson ploughing down a NI only backstop furrow. For every stray Labour vote he'd pick up, he'd alienate at least two of his own party's and pick an almighty fight with the likes of Gove which would spell trouble for him. I agree on the surface it looks an attractive enough option in a field with so few of them, but ultimately i dont think it leads to anywhere productive. The lesser risk for Johnson is doing absolutely nothing and seeing what happens.

Bit cynical

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Backstop confined completly to Northern Ireland. Essentially the WA other than that. DUP thrown under the bus but may get brexit through with enough support from Labour MPs worried about their seats in leave areas. Then election in November with Borris saying he had delivered brexit. Sammy Wilson to turn an all new colour of red

Possibly. I think Johnson would be better than May at getting such a deal through. The ERG would still be against it but as you say, with enough Labour MPs, it might get through.

On the other hand, he's also said that the WA is dead and putting a piece of territory into a special zone is still problematic for any country even without the complexities of the North.

I've still got a feeling it will be something else entirely if it is not going to be a hard brexit. I could be wrong but we'll see. Hard brexit still most likely outcome imo.

Mr.Wemmick

The UK need to continue on this road now and have their brexit mess delivered to them by their own hand.

All the advice, the honest realistic upfront views presented to all from business heads and experts to ex-politicians with oodles of experience has fallen on deaf ears.

They do not want to know.. they need to fail, big time. Or this will never fully go away.

Simply put: how can they have an overblown imaginary fight with the EU bloc and fail to see that their largest trading partner is there for their benefit.

The never ending stupidity of this situation is truly gobsmacking.

Seth Brundle

Given the speculation about NI staying in the CU & SM, what will the ERG have to say?
As this will effectively shaft their DUP friends, will they back that proposal?

Bigus

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Yeah, figured. My background is biological sciences research which is unfortunately not terribly sought after or lucrative.

Could you retrain for one of the many new bilion euro bio pharma plants just after been built here in Ireland , they’re crying out for high end people, according to my friend who’s been putting together the infrastructure. Bristol Meyer Squib, etc

storker

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Given the speculation about NI staying in the CU & SM, what will the ERG have to say?
As this will effectively shaft their DUP friends, will they back that proposal?

I'd say they will. No sacrifice is too great in the name of Cthulhu, I mean, Brexit.