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Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

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    #962
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,228 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Jeremy Hunt is his sales pitch to become PM has just said that the EU didn't understand that the backstop may have had issues passing parliament at the time. These guys are brutal, everyone in the EU were fully aware of the issues, even to the point they were tweeting about it at the time. He claims things have changed as they now understand that this is the issue.


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    #963
    Shelga
    Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Shelga


    Laura Kuenssberg retweeting this rubbish: https://twitter.com/jp_biz/status/1137987535546834944?s=21

    Apparently Ireland has ‘used a lot of diplomatic energy in Europeanising the border’- such absolute nonsense. The UK are the ones adding an external EU border right down the middle of our island, and we have no choice but to ‘Europeanise’ it due to our membership of the single market.

    How can Kuenssberg claim impartiality?!


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    #964
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Jeremy Hunt is his sales pitch to become PM has just said that the EU didn't understand that the backstop may have had issues passing parliament at the time. These guys are brutal, everyone in the EU were fully aware of the issues, even to the point they were tweeting about it at the time. He claims things have changed as they now understand that this is the issue.
    Even if they only now just understand the issues. They are still the UK's issues to resolve


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    #965
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,924 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Jeremy Hunt is his sales pitch to become PM has just said that the EU didn't understand that the backstop may have had issues passing parliament at the time. These guys are brutal, everyone in the EU were fully aware of the issues, even to the point they were tweeting about it at the time. He claims things have changed as they now understand that this is the issue.

    Of course it doesn't make sense to you . You are not its target audience. It is preaching to a different choir ; all that matters is those lovely votes to get through Round 1


    Remember, the UK signed up to the backstop , there's paperwork and everything , Jeremy Hunt is in the Cabinet that passed it. We're talking about someone so bad at Government that Stephen Hawking took him to court


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    #966
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,228 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Shelga wrote: »
    Laura Kuenssberg retweeting this rubbish: https://twitter.com/jp_biz/status/1137987535546834944?s=21

    Apparently Ireland has ‘used a lot of diplomatic energy in Europeanising the border’- such absolute nonsense. The UK are the ones adding an external EU border right down the middle of our island, and we have no choice but to ‘Europeanise’ it due to our membership of the single market.

    How can Kuenssberg claim impartiality?!


    In fairness, that's absolutely true. From the outset Irish diplomats have been, very successfully, prioritising the border issue and making it much more than being about Ireland.

    Don't think it's anything to do with Kuenssberg?


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    #967
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,776 ✭✭✭✭briany


    A Narcissist’s Prayer

    That didn’t happen.

    And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.

    And if it was, that’s not a big deal.

    And if it is, that’s not my fault.

    And if it was, I didn’t mean it.

    And if I did…

    You deserved it.

    I'll try and adapt the above text to Brexit and the border.

    The border will stay open

    And if it won't, then we'll implement a Trusted Trader scheme

    And if we can't then it's the EU's fault

    And if it's not then we'll tell Ireland to cop on

    If we can't....

    But we're a much more important country!


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    #968
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,924 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Hurrache wrote: »
    In fairness, that's absolutely true. From the outset Irish diplomats have been, very successfully, prioritising the border issue and making it much more than being about Ireland.

    Don't think it's anything to do with Kuenssberg?


    It's Amber Rudd rubbish supporting Jeremy. This from the politician who had to resign over Windrush and then was sneaked in the backdoor a year or two later.


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    #969
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,228 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    But the comment
    Difficult to see Ireland agreeing to make it a bilateral issue now having expended so much diplomatic energy on Europeanising the border.

    is from the BBC reporter.


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    #970
    brickster69
    Registered Users Posts: 5,611 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Smells a bit fishy, buying off Brexiteers !

    https://twitter.com/ActionBrexit/status/1137681519282130945

    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



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    #971
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    trellheim wrote: »
    It's Amber Rudd rubbish supporting Jeremy. This from the politician who had to resign over Windrush and then was sneaked in the backdoor a year or two later.

    Rudd and Mordaunt are both backing Hunt. Poor man's head will explode.


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    #972
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users Posts: 4,865 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    Sorry to go back to the drugs thing, but Boris Johnson has in the past admitted to snorting cocaine in interviews, notably when he was running for London mayor. I could be wrong but I think he has been in the USA since 2007 which means he has answered the question on the Visa form, Have you used class A narcotics in the past?. If he answered Yes to the question, he wouldn't have gained entry to the USA.


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    #973
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,709 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It's a border the EU shares with a soon to be non-EU state. Did Ireland ever have to "Europeanise" it?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #974
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,228 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    It's a border the EU shares with a soon to be non-EU state. Did Ireland ever have to "Europeanise" it?

    It possibly could easily have been a hard border of some type from the outset but Ireland helped ensure that it was a priority to keep it frictionless.

    This has been a point made over and over, used an example of the great diplomatic work behind the scenes by Ireland, so I don't understand why people are having issue with it now.


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    #975
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    Sorry to go back to the drugs thing, but Boris Johnson has in the past admitted to snorting cocaine in interviews, notably when he was running for London mayor. I could be wrong but I think he has been in the USA since 2007 which means he has answered the question on the Visa form, Have you used class A narcotics in the past?. If he answered Yes to the question, he wouldn't have gained entry to the USA.
    He was born in the US and was up until recently a US citizen. He probably didn't need a visa.


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    #976
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users Posts: 4,865 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    Deleted User wrote: »
    He was born in the US and was up until recently a US citizen. He probably didn't need a visa.
    If he has been to the USA in the last 3 years he would have had to fill out the form.


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    #977
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,501 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Hurrache wrote: »
    It possibly could easily have been a hard border of some type from the outset but Ireland helped ensure that it was a priority to keep it frictionless.

    This has been a point made over and over, used an example of the great diplomatic work behind the scenes by Ireland, so I don't understand why people are having issue with it now.

    You seem to be suggesting that Ireland could for some unexplained reason, have chosen not to take part in discussions about the border as though it were no concern of Ireland's. Ireland simply ensured that the border issue was not ignored as the British may have hoped it would be. But that isn't Europeanising it, the issue was always a European one. Ireland has simply made sure that Ireland led the European side on that particular issue. I expect Spain will do the same over Gibraltar, don't you?

    It's amusing actually how the British appear shocked that the EU should side with its own members in border disputes with the U.K. which has chosen to become a third country. I'm a bit puzzled to see (I presume) Irish posters apparently agreeing with them on that.


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    #978
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,228 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    I am not saying that all all. And as puzzled as you may be, I'm not sure you're puzzled for reasons you may be projecting onto me.


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    #979
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,066 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    Sorry to go back to the drugs thing, but Boris Johnson has in the past admitted to snorting cocaine in interviews, notably when he was running for London mayor. I could be wrong but I think he has been in the USA since 2007 which means he has answered the question on the Visa form, Have you used class A narcotics in the past?. If he answered Yes to the question, he wouldn't have gained entry to the USA.

    Boris was a US citizen. He only relatively recently renounced his duality.


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    #980
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,066 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    If he has been to the USA in the last 3 years he would have had to fill out the form.

    The fact that he was likely over there as a diplomat probably negates any "form-filling".


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    #981
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Shelga wrote: »
    Laura Kuenssberg retweeting this rubbish: https://twitter.com/jp_biz/status/1137987535546834944?s=21

    Apparently Ireland has ‘used a lot of diplomatic energy in Europeanising the border’- such absolute nonsense. The UK are the ones adding an external EU border right down the middle of our island, and we have no choice but to ‘Europeanise’ it due to our membership of the single market.

    How can Kuenssberg claim impartiality?!

    I don't read the tweet that way, it is a slight on Hunt thinking that we will decide to move the discussion of the border to bilateral talks with the UK having been able to get the EU behind us before. I don't know if the EU negotiators and Guy Verhofstadt visited the border to speak to the people either side of it, long before the UK side no less, was planned from the start. I would not be surprised if it was at our insistence to get the message across to them on how important the border is, not for trade but for security and peace.

    This seems to be the part where the UK politicians and reporters as well fall down. They still don't seem to understand it but I do expect the BBC NI Economics and Business Editor to and it is his tweet. He also tweeted 3 other times to outline the other leadership hopeful positions on the NI border.

    brickster69 wrote: »
    Smells a bit fishy, buying off Brexiteers !

    https://twitter.com/ActionBrexit/status/1137681519282130945

    This is not new.

    May woos rebel Labour MPs in effort to gain Brexit deal backing

    The prime minister has asked two cabinet ministers to consult opposition backbenchers over legislation to protect workers’ rights after Brexit, although there is a fierce debate in Labour about how far to engage with the Conservatives.

    Downing Street also confirmed that extra cash for deprived post-industrial areas was also under consideration, to allow “Labour MPs representing Brexit communities to say they have extracted something tangible”, according to a government source quoted in the Times.

    So I am not sure what is fishy here, she bought the DUP with a £1bn extra funding for the region that no other region received so it was always on the cards that they would try it again.
    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    It's a border the EU shares with a soon to be non-EU state. Did Ireland ever have to "Europeanise" it?


    We did not and I would love to know how much or hard we had to work to get it to the front of the EU negotiators minds. It doesn't matter, the point is we are not going to make bilateral decisions on what is now an important EU issue and anyone that thinks that is either delusional or a liar or obviously someone hoping to run the country. Seems par for the course.


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    #982
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users Posts: 4,865 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    I think the Irish border was "Europeanised" (if that's a word) when The UK voted to leave.


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    #983
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Possibly a stupid question coming up but how will the next PM be elected? Do they have to get a majority of vote in the HoC?


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    #984
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Possibly a stupid question coming up but how will the next PM be elected? Do they have to get a majority of vote in the HoC?


    Well the Conservatives has their process where the candidates have to present themselves as a contender today at 5pm. They will need the backing of 8 MPs to be allowed to run. From there they will be whittled down to the last 2 with MPs voting for their favourite (Conservative only obviously) every Tuesday and Thursday. When you are down to 2 they will go against each other to the Conservative Members who decide who is to become leader. Not sure if that is what you asked.

    After the leader is elected from the Party, they will be appointed by the Queen with the implication that they hold the confidence of the House of Commons. They do not have to win a vote to become PM, but they could face an immediate vote of confidence from Labour to test how strong the majority of only 6 will hold up. This will be fascinating as promises will be made and they will have to say whether they are prepared to leave with no-deal. If they are there are some Conservative MPs who could decide to abstain from that vote if they feel the new PM will be a danger for the country.


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    #985
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,924 ✭✭✭trellheim


    If they are there are some Conservative MPs who could decide to abstain from that vote if they feel the new PM will be a danger for the country.

    Maybe. However the Corbyn alternative would force them to vote the party line in my view since that forces an immediate GE and the implied "My Brexit's harder than your Brexit" contest between the Tories and the Brexit party that would immediately ensure, in the process further wrecking the Conservative party.


    Theres also an interesting dynamic here - how far will the members stretch positions given the above alternative , a new PM knows this situation exists.


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    #986
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Possibly a stupid question coming up but how will the next PM be elected? Do they have to get a majority of vote in the HoC?
    NOt directly. When the Conservative Party has completed its internal processes and selected a new leader Mrs May will go to the Queen, resign as PM and advise the Queen to send for whoever is the new leader and ask him to form a government. The Queen will certainly accept and act on that advice, and the new Tory leader will become PM without any vote in the House of Commons.

    As Enzokk points out, he may face a vote of confidence fairly shortly afterwards. Ironically, though, the sooner this happens the more likely he is to win it, since the pressure on Tory MPs not to vote against the new PM before the new PM has had a chance to do anything at all (and therefore to do anything improper) will be considerable.


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    #987
    BluePlanet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    At some point the government here needs to detail plans of what a border would look like in the event of a No Deal Brexit.

    Not having a plan at all is not an option, it would be incompetence.


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    #988
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    BluePlanet wrote: »
    At some point the government here needs to detail plans of what a border would look like in the event of a No Deal Brexit.

    Not having a plan at all is not an option, it would be incompetence.
    There is a plan. Leo hopes not to have to use it, and would prefer not to unveil it, because it's not pleasant.


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    #989
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Also Leo etc aren’t out tic regeal the plan cos a-they’ll copy the homework and b-quickly shift the border blame onto Ireland. Both in parliament and In media


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    #990
    jochenstacker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 390 ✭✭jochenstacker


    Well, Boris has all the answers. Scrap the Backstop, renege on the debt and everything will be tickety boo.

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/france-hits-back-as-boris-johnson-threatens-to-pull-plug-on-brexit-divorce-bill/

    For some extraordinary reaso, Macron seems to think not paying your debt could make things difficult going forward.


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    #991
    Panrich
    Registered Users Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭Panrich


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    There is a plan. Leo hopes not to have to use it, and would prefer not to unveil it, because it's not pleasant.

    A closed border that splits communities in two policed by EU/Irish personnel is not a very appealing prospect. The fact that nothing has been released is enough to convince me that it’s not going to be pretty no matter how watered down it will be.


This discussion has been closed.
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