Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Laois_Man

devnull wrote: »

I didn't catch the last question fully, what was it?

From The Guardian, who asked what happens when the EU won't renegotiate and MPs wont allow no-deal

Unfortunately he didn't answer it though - other than some bluster about MPs who will magically agree to allow the right thing (Brexit)

Hurrache wrote: »

I have many issues with her, but the question I heard Kuenssberg ask today was reasonable, she asked about his inconsistencies in his stance on no deal.

He had already said he doesn't want no-deal but that it is right to prepare for one. He got to repeat an already made statement, one question down

54and56

devnull wrote: »

Just listned to Boris talking and taking questions, he didn't bother to answer any, just went off-topic and deflected everything and didn't address any directly, completely pathetic.

Lots of soundbites, rhetoric and lots of phrases and empy words without anything to back them up once again

Wait until Andrew Marr and/or Emily Maitlis get their paws on him!!

An Ciarraioch

Latest Commission no-deal update:

http://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/1138750998456016896

Hurrache

Laois_Man wrote: »

He had already said he doesn't want no-deal but that it is right to prepare for one. He got to repeat an already made statement, one question down

And his plan is to renegotiate a new deal. Everyone know this is not possible, including him, so it's a lie. He also says that they will now have better leverage with the EU if they're prepared for a no deal.

So which is it?

Doesn't matter who asked the questions, or how many, he wasn't answering any of them regardless.

BonnieSituation

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Latest Commission no-deal update:

https://mobile.twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/1138750998456016896

I haven't clicked... But i bet the commission are caving...









(Purposeful disingenuousness. Nothing directed at you Mr.)

LeinsterDub

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1138747518047674368

I'm shocked, honestly shocked to the core by this news. No wait I'm mean completely unsurprised

Leroy42

And why is nobody asking him how much as this preparation for No Deal, which he says he doesn't want, is going to cost? They have already spend billions on it and now Boris says he wants to continue to pour money into what many claim is the very thing they don't want.

And yet nobody asks them why they don't want it. What is so bad about No Deal that they want to avoid it? Surely as PM their job is to get the best for the country and even by his own admission No Deal is not it.

blackcard

traco wrote: »

Hurrache wrote: »

Johnson actually having some tough questions asked of him, his cronies of course boo'd Beth Rigby when she asked about the language he uses, such as calling veiled women Letterboxes.

He actually defends this by claiming that the ordinary people want to hear people talk like this and not be alienated by the political language they use. Jaysus.

Just listened to it - he didn't answer a single question directly. UK politics is in some mess

In fairness, most politicians don't answer questions directly.

An Ciarraioch

Labour motion defeated by 309-298.

BluePlanet

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Labour motion defeated by 309-298.

I'm not surprised. While it doesn't mean that they view a No Deal as desire-able, they do view it as leverage.

Laois_Man

Mark Francois openly admitting (even if he hasn't got the cop on to know it) that his and BJ's real motivation to leave on Oct 31st is to save the Tory party, not for any other reason.

https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1138752005311279110

10000maniacs

Laois_Man wrote: »

Mark Francois openly admitting (even if he hasn't got the cop on to know it) that his and BJ's real motivation to leave on Oct 31st is to save the Tory party, not for any other reason.

https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1138752005311279110

In other words Johnson cares as little for the country as Francois does and that's what swung it for Francois.
Blair, Major and the Lib Dems should stage a military coup to stop these charlatans from doing any more damage.

devnull

Laois_Man wrote: »

Mark Francois openly admitting (even if he hasn't got the cop on to know it) that his and BJ's real motivation to leave on Oct 31st is to save the Tory party, not for any other reason.

https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1138752005311279110

Hardly news though is it, they've been crowing about the party for months now with no respect for the country.

They're falling into the same trap as Theresa May, trapping themselves in red lines and making bold commitments to hold the party together rather than dealing with the problems at hand sensibly and will get tangled in them later on down the line in October, just like Theresa May did in the last few months, leaving them with no wriggle room at all.

Joe_ Public

I'd really love to know what Johnsons plan is to NOT deliver brexit. Does he even have one? They can opine all they want about parliament not being able to stop no deal as far as i'm concerned, when it comes to the deadline and they're staring the abyss of chaos in the face, they will absolutely and categorically blink, parliament will self-combust before it allows that become a reality. That was the last question asked him at todays launch - no deal is blocked on 31 October, what then? - and he pointedly ducked it. Cant keep avoiding it for the rest of the month, though, or however long the contest takes.

BluePlanet

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I'd really love to know what Johnsons plan is to NOT deliver brexit. Does he even have one?

Well obviously he nor the rest of the Tory contenders have a plan for not exiting.
The whole point is to deliver Brexit.

Sam Russell

BluePlanet wrote: »

Well obviously he nor the rest of the Tory contenders have a plan for not exiting.
The whole point is to deliver Brexit.

I thought the whole point is to become PM. Everything is secondary, including principles, the country, and even the Tory party.

BluePlanet

I believe the Tories when they say they want to Leave.

Enzokk

Just want to say that I thought Laura Kuenssberg's was quite good. I was expecting a more softball question from her to be honest. Boris avoided answering every question, even more so than May ever did. If he does become PM it will be a frustrating exercise trying to get a straight answer from him as we saw today he will deflect with (apparent) humor or he will just answer a completely different question to the one that was asked.

As for him and Mark Francois stating that they are doing it for the party and not the country, it is not surprising. May has been acting in the interest of the Party for a long time as well, but it does make a mockery of this government website.

The 7 principles of public life

1. Selflessness
Holders of public office should act solely in terms of the public interest.

2. Integrity
Holders of public office must avoid placing themselves under any obligation to people or organisations that might try inappropriately to influence them in their work. They should not act or take decisions in order to gain financial or other material benefits for themselves, their family, or their friends. They must declare and resolve any interests and relationships.

3. Objectivity
Holders of public office must act and take decisions impartially, fairly and on merit, using the best evidence and without discrimination or bias.

4. Accountability
Holders of public office are accountable to the public for their decisions and actions and must submit themselves to the scrutiny necessary to ensure this.

5. Openness
Holders of public office should act and take decisions in an open and transparent manner. Information should not be withheld from the public unless there are clear and lawful reasons for so doing.

6. Honesty
Holders of public office should be truthful.

7. Leadership
Holders of public office should exhibit these principles in their own behaviour. They should actively promote and robustly support the principles and be willing to challenge poor behaviour wherever it occurs.

They should just take it down, if there is no mechanism to hold MPs to account on their statements and obvious lies are treated as if it is routine they should really not try to pretend that they have some sort honour system that MPs strive towards. They are just kidding themselves and it would be better for all involved if they were truthful in just saying they hope MP's don't commit serious offences while in office, the rest of all up for grabs.

Joe_ Public

BluePlanet wrote: »

Well obviously he nor the rest of the Tory contenders have a plan for not exiting.
The whole point is to deliver Brexit.

As the last question that was asked him at the launch went: what if they dont leave on 31 October? What then? Its a simple and very valid question. Of course, i know he doesnt have a convincing answer to it - hence his complete unwillingness to even address it in a proper fashion - but i still want to hear how he evades it at every available opportunity.

BluePlanet

Joe_ Public wrote: »

As the last question that was asked him at the launch went: what if they dont leave on 31 October? What then? Its a simple and very valid question. Of course, i know he doesnt have a convincing answer to it - hence his complete unwillingness to even address it in a proper fashion - but i still want to hear how he evades it at every available opportunity.

It's not a question Leavers like Boris or any of them would contemplate or admit they contemplate. Not when they are busy chest thumping and out Brexit-ing one another.

I would guess the nearest corollary would be to ask Leo what the plan is for a No Deal crash out regarding the northern border. There is no political gain for him to answer, so we get waffle and deflection.

Rjd2

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Labour motion defeated by 309-298.

Crap result, but would be interesting to see how such a vote would go once the leadership race is done. The likes of Stewart, Hammond, Rudd and other remainers who have voted with the government might pause once Boris is PM.

10000maniacs

Watching the BBC News now.
Katya Adler thinks there is wiggle room with the Irish government on the backstop. Give me strength.

Infini

Boris getting the PM job would be laughable to a degree of course but at the same time it would hardly be a surprise. Let's face it as it currently stands British Politics are utterly fecked altogether, paralysed and polarised with the only competent Party Leaders too weak to be able to effectively do something, the main opposition hobbled by an indecisive Corbyn who simply refuses to come out with the effective remain position that would get him the PM because he's a closet leaver and an utterly broken and self centered Conservative party only interested in Party before country.

While the EU certainly could grant a further Extention of course I honestly think by October that the EU will be willing to cut the UK loose simply because they not only gave them a chance and they blew it but that the current UK leaders will be off their head believing their own BS that they can get a better deal right until they go off the edge. There will also be those in the EU who will simply want their toxic attitude and delusions gone simply because they're beyond any hope and they got other issues to deal with. So long as the Conservative's remain in power and a 1/3 of the UK population are utterly blind to any logical argument against Brexit there's gonna be no change in the situation.

There will have to be a reckoning at some point and the way things are going right now I honestly think that the only way this will get resolved is by the UK being forced to confront the consequences of their own actions and no amount of blaming the EU will change the fact that they were warned and given every opportunity to avoid the situation but the political establishment was too incompetent and foolish beliving their own bluster till it was too late. They brought it on themselves.

Flex

10000maniacs wrote: »

Watching the BBC News now.
Katya Adler thinks there is wiggle room with the Irish government on the backstop. Give me strength.

Did she happen to elaborate at all on what she was basing that on?

cryptocurrency

Rjd2 wrote: »

Crap result, but would be interesting to see how such a vote would go once the leadership race is done. The likes of Stewart, Hammond, Rudd and other remainers who have voted with the government might pause once Boris is PM.

They may want to stay in the EU but they also want jobs. The UK is leave and any MP who wants a job would be wise to vote that way to try and save their seat.

Remainers will lose seats on mass in the next GE

10000maniacs

Flex wrote: »

Did she happen to elaborate at all on what she was basing that on?

To quote her
"EU Leaders want to avoid a no deal Brexit, so there is a little bit of wiggle room if they think that wiggle will really do the trick, what I mean by wiggle is any new Prime Minister is going to ask for something on the backstop and amongst some of the members there is more than an openness to agreeing to an end-date to the backstop if push came to shove but only if Dublin is agreeable and only if EU leaders are 100% sure it would pass through Parliament and allow everyone to move on."
LOL;)

An Claidheamh

Enzokk wrote: »

It seems like the wheels are in motion for Boris Johnson to become PM. The Telegraph is pushing him to other MPs and to the membership as well.

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1138551562522046464

This reminds me of the polling before the last election and we know how that turned out as well.

As for where he stands on Brexit and the ERG, it seems like he has their backing at least according Beth Rigby,

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1138467029906808838

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1138470479294009344

Now that seems contradictory to me. How can you promise to go directly to a FTA and leave on the 31st October and claim not to pursue no-deal?

This tweet sum it up for me,

https://twitter.com/NinaDSchick/status/1138701595762417664

Any indication what each potential leader would have on the SNP?

Not that the Daily Telegraph would bother with non-English parties... 🙄

lawred2

Flex wrote: »

Did she happen to elaborate at all on what she was basing that on?

Does she ever?

lawred2

10000maniacs wrote: »

To quote her
"EU Leaders want to avoid a no deal Brexit, so there is a little bit of wiggle room if they think that wiggle will really do the trick, what I mean by wiggle is any new Prime Minister is going to ask for something on the backstop and amongst some of the members there is more than an openness to agreeing to an end-date to the backstop if push came to shove but only if Dublin is agreeable and only if EU leaders are 100% sure it would pass through Parliament and allow everyone to move on."
LOL;)

That's absolute nonsense

10000maniacs

lawred2 wrote: »

That's absolute nonsense

Just to be clear, It's Katya Adler, not me.