Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Thargor

Boris is going to be the next PM, this is going to be entertaining, its absolutely amazing when you think about it.

listermint

Thargor wrote: »

Boris is going to be the next PM, this is going to be entertaining, its absolutely amazing when you think about it.

Not that Amazing tbh. The UK is a kip of a political system right now. It's been overrun by populism absolutely overrun. There's a tiny cohort pushing and pushing it over the edge which is why they are loud and vehemently opposed to asking the people what they want because the brakes would be applied immediately.

It's not that amazing to have Johnson at the wheel considering the level of money that's gone into promoting his narrative over the last number of years


Grand.


It's will accelerate the destruction of the UK as we know it. Scotland out. Northern Ireland out. England and Wales can hug themselves in perpetual bliss outside the EU swallowed up by the international sharks

lawred2

So Boris is to put no deal firmly on the table.

So we're back to the UK thinking that the threat of grievous self harm is something that will bring the EU27 back to the table.. Jesus wept we're back two years ago.

No deal was firmly in their grasp back in March. Why didn't they just go for it then?

It's the daftest silliest most empty threat.

devnull

lawred2 wrote: »

So we're back to the UK thinking that the threat of grievous self harm is something that will bring the EU27 back to the table.. Jesus wept we're back two years ago.

Nothing has changed, Nothing has changed.

Get rid of Theresa May and get someone who is saying the same thing, tying themselves up in red lines which will only restrict them later and put Boris in exactly the same kind of situation that he lambasted May for being in. He's already starting to hem himself in for October and unfortunately this is the kind of populism leavers will vote for.

The trouble at the moment is that as many have said here, everything is being done in the view of populism and trying to please the electorate and looking after the Tory party, and being honest or truthful is seen as far less important than that. The welfare of the country is not even being considered, neither is any sense of what is achievable in reality, many reality checks are needed in UK.

But don't worry, if you thought Boris is bad, you should see some of the others.

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1138748219826028547

Capt'n Midnight

devnull wrote: »

But don't worry, if you thought Boris is bad, you should see some of the others.

twitter.com/LBC/status/1138748219826028547

Wow.

The whole point of an Aircraft Carrier is that you can make your own headwind.


[RANT]
Getting a 70,600 tonne vessel up to 29 Knots / 54 Km/hr isn't trivial. They will cost the UK £14Bn by the time they have the helicopters and planes. Shame that the rest of the navy has shrunk such that escorts for the carriers will take a huge chunk of what's left. Knowing about the armed forces is kinda a pre-requisite for the job of PM

The US WWII South Dakota-class battleships weighed 35,000 tons and could do 27.5 Knots.
The Iowa class which were near enough a slightly faster version of the South Dakota's could do 33 Knots.
It took 60% more power and 10,000 tons extra. It's not trivial.



Oh and commercial aircraft can operate in cross winds.

And we live in one of the windiest parts of the world.

[/RANT]

Peregrinus

BluePlanet wrote: »

I believe the Tories when they say they want to Leave.

And yet they haven't left.

woohoo!!!

Kinda perfect really that Boris will be at the wheel when the whole thing grinds to a shuddering halt. The EU27 won't be playing ball with him. And a few weeks of no deal will see all pretence at governance collapse.

Such mobs need to be confronted with reality not being appeased. And it is a mob we're dealing with, along with a whiff of colonial superiority. A rogue state.

fash

devnull wrote: »

Nothing has changed, Nothing has changed.

Get rid of Theresa May and get someone who is saying the same thing, tying themselves up in red lines which will only restrict them later and put Boris in exactly the same kind of situation that he lambasted May for being in. He's already starting to hem himself in for October and unfortunately this is the kind of populism leavers will vote for.

The trouble at the moment is that as many have said here, everything is being done in the view of populism and trying to please the electorate and looking after the Tory party, and being honest or truthful is seen as far less important than that. The welfare of the country is not even being considered, neither is any sense of what is achievable in reality, many reality checks are needed in UK.

But don't worry, if you thought Boris is bad, you should see some of the others.

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1138748219826028547

The reference was to an airport built on st Helena- a British overseas territory- so not "foreign" .
Also not on a "continent".
Also the airport now takes commercial flights:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Helena_Airport

listermint

Picture this.


PM candidate comes out at a press conference. Asked by a reporter what he meant when he said sure all those paddies just eat potatoes and swallow bottles of whiskey all day. They're just paddies

He laughs and says , look people want you to say what you mean. They want me to say what they think.



This is the new reality of UK politics.

Enzokk

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Any indication what each potential leader would have on the SNP?

Not that the Daily Telegraph would bother with non-English parties... ��

None at all, I think the SNP comes in under the "NAT" part of the graph. You would assume that is Plaid Cymru and the SNP together. Under everyone the projection is 59 seats.

Beechwoodspark

One positive about Boris getting in is he will be found out.

johnnyskeleton

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

One positive about Boris getting in is he will be found out.

Possibly, but much like Trump my fear would be that a significant majority of his supporters already know about his various difficulties and dont care!

seamus

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Possibly, but much like Trump my fear would be that a significant majority of his supporters already know about his various difficulties and dont care!

This is exactly why he will win. Because like Trump, there is nothing Boris can do now to make himself appear more despicable, which makes him virtually invulnerable as a candidate.

In systems where campaigns are based on who comes out with the least mud stuck to them, a guy who starts the campaign already covered in mud, can't be beaten. Because he still looks the same at the end.

steddyeddy

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

One positive about Boris getting in is he will be found out.

He should have been found out long ago. The evidence is there.

j8wk2feszrnpao

steddyeddy wrote: »

He should have been found out long ago. The evidence is there.

Those who back Boris, just don't care. It's black or white for those people. Ignore all the shades of grey with his character; if you want Brexit, then you just want someone who shouts Brexit the loudest.

LeinsterDub

lawred2 wrote: »

So Boris is to put no deal firmly on the table.

Boris has some how told half the people one thing and the other half some thing completely different and no one seems to care

steddyeddy

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Those who back Boris, just don't care. It's black or white for those people. Ignore all the shades of grey with his character; if you want Brexit, then you just want someone who shouts Brexit the loudest.

Even if he previously supported remain....

Professor Moriarty

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Boris has some how told half the people one thing and the other half some thing completely different and no one seems to care

It's a possibility that May might be seen in a more favourable light by the Tory faithful this time next year.

FreudianSlippers

lawred2 wrote: »

So Boris is to put no deal firmly on the table.

So we're back to the UK thinking that the threat of grievous self harm is something that will bring the EU27 back to the table.. Jesus wept we're back two years ago.

No deal was firmly in their grasp back in March. Why didn't they just go for it then?

It's the daftest silliest most empty threat.

We are and it's made me absolutely stop caring about Brexit. They can do what they want at this point, we should have a border poll and if NI doesn't want to re-join Ireland, then I don't see any alternative but a hard border.

It's a real shame, but the people of Northern Ireland need to really get their act together now and decide whether they want to keep a life of peace and prosperity or whether being a part of the Union is worth the troubles returning.

I'm just fed up with it all at this point.

lawred2

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

One positive about Boris getting in is he will be found out.

Said everyone about Trump.

johnnyskeleton

Douglas Adams once described a character who was a charismatic but not entirely reliable politician as intended "Not to weild power, but to distract attention away from those who do."

Boris certainly fits into that mould, except perhaps that he is likeable only within certain demographics.

However, boffonish as he is, I think Gove, Raab, Leadsom and McVey would be worse for Ireland. Hopefully Rory Stuart wont be eliminated later!

Laois_Man

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's a possibility that May might be seen in a more favourable light by the Tory faithful this time next year.

I think it's more than a possibility - I think it's definite - as soon as they realize May's deal is STILL the only one they can get....which should occur to them before October (as it occurred to the rest of the world long ago)

Enzokk

Voting on the leadership has started, those who do not secure 17 votes will be eliminated and I assume if all reach this threshold the candidate with the least votes will be eliminated. Results at lunchtime.

Tory leadership contest: 10 rivals face first ballot of MPs

Conservative MPs have begun voting for their new leader and next prime minister in the party's first ballot in Parliament.

Voting is taking place by secret ballot in the Commons, with a result expected some time after 13:00 BST.

Any of the 10 candidates who fails to secure at least 17 votes will be eliminated from the contest.

Professor Moriarty

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Douglas Adams once described a character who was a charismatic but not entirely reliable politician as intended "Not to weild power, but to distract attention away from those who do."

Boris certainly fits into that mould, except perhaps that he is likeable only within certain demographics.

However, boffonish as he is, I think Gove, Raab, Leadsom and McVey would be worse for Ireland. Hopefully Rory Stuart wont be eliminated later!

Rory Stewart has zero chance, sadly. Run off probably between Hunt and Johnson with Johnson romping home.

Professor Moriarty

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

We are and it's made me absolutely stop caring about Brexit. They can do what they want at this point, we should have a border poll and if NI doesn't want to re-join Ireland, then I don't see any alternative but a hard border.

It's a real shame, but the people of Northern Ireland need to really get their act together now and decide whether they want to keep a life of peace and prosperity or whether being a part of the Union is worth the troubles returning.

I'm just fed up with it all at this point.

Agreed. Best observed as a soap opera while Ireland gets on with its life.

Professor Moriarty

Laois_Man wrote: »

I think it's more than a possibility - I think it's definite - as soon as they realize May's deal is STILL the only one they can get....which should occur to them before October (as it occurred to the rest of the world long ago)

I have absolutely no doubt Johnson et al know this. It's just Tory party politicking. Or, in other words, bullsh1t.

johnnyskeleton

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Rory Stewart has zero chance, sadly. Run off probably between Hunt and Johnson with Johnson romping home.

I know. But since everyone else in this world can put belief ahead of facts I thought I'd give it a go. Hes gotten a small bit more support after a good C4 interview last night where he said everyone else was crazy, but I think its only up to about 8 supporting MPs.

Dissappointed as well about Mark Harper. As the only one not in TMs government over the last few years he'd be ideal to be a new broom etc. Though quite what he would do if elected Prime Minister remains to be seen

Professor Moriarty

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I know. But since everyone else in this world can put belief ahead of facts I thought I'd give it a go. Hes gotten a small bit more support after a good C4 interview last night where he said everyone else was crazy, but I think its only up to about 8 supporting MPs

What should happen is that the One Nation MPs and Pro EU MPs should coalesce behind him. But when you have the likes of Rudd backing Hunt then you know most of them are putting re-election before principle.

Shelga

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

We are and it's made me absolutely stop caring about Brexit. They can do what they want at this point, we should have a border poll and if NI doesn't want to re-join Ireland, then I don't see any alternative but a hard border.

It's a real shame, but the people of Northern Ireland need to really get their act together now and decide whether they want to keep a life of peace and prosperity or whether being a part of the Union is worth the troubles returning.

I'm just fed up with it all at this point.

I agree to an extent, but I don’t think the reunification of Ireland is the simple solution to all of this, that it’s been made out to be. It brings its own extremely complex problems. Either way, it’s looking increasingly like Ireland is screwed in all of this, whatever happens.

Today, Paddy Power has odds of 2-1 for a no deal Brexit. I think it’s the most likely outcome at this point. Especially with Labour’s motion yesterday having been defeated.

Laois_Man

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I have absolutely no doubt Johnson et al know this. It's just Tory party politicking. Or, in other words, bullsh1t.

I wasn't referring to the politicians. I was referring to the British public. Specifically the leavers, most of whom at least appear to be taken in by all the bull****!