Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Professor Moriarty

Laois_Man wrote: »

I wasn't referring to the politicians. I was referring to the British public. Specifically the leavers, most of whom at least appear to be taken in by all the bull****!

This is an Old Etonian from a very privileged background. He has been proven to be a liar on multiple occasions. This elitist liar has spent the past 10 months (while employed as an MP) earning £700k writing self-aggrandising puff pieces in the telegraph and charging £20k an hour for self-aggrandising speeches. This is the person that White Van Man in Leeds thinks will lead him into a bright new future. You just can't fix stupid.

EKRIUQ

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

One positive about Boris getting in is he will be found out.

That's the one reason why I want him to get it, he's going to be backtracking so much all of a sudden Mays deal wasn't so bad and it's there way of leaving the EU

johnnyskeleton

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

This is an Old Etonian from a very privileged background. He has been proven to be a liar on multiple occasions. This elitist liar has spent the past 10 months (while employed as an MP) earning £700k writing self-aggrandising puff pieces in the telegraph and charging £20k an hour for self-aggrandising speeches. This is the person that White Van Man in Leeds thinks will lead him into a bright new future. You just can't fix stupid.

There is a logic to it. The middle class tend to look at those wealthier than them with suspicion, "why isnt that me?" They say to themselves. By contrast, the working class, particularly self employed tradesmen look up to them with admiration, "that could be me" is what they say.

Hurrache

Sky News had a piece with opinions from within Europe on what the Tory leader candidates have been saying, there's a clip of it below.

https://twitter.com/Stone_SkyNews/status/1139037352230342661

People affiliated with the Brexit party are now claiming is was propaganda on behalf of the EU
https://twitter.com/Stone_SkyNews/status/1139089716270247941

Then you have other people working in the journalism profession, I wouldn't call her a journalist, attacking, and doubling down on those attacks, Beth Rigby for asking Boris Johnson the questions she asked.

https://twitter.com/allisonpearson/status/1138916086500548608

The story state of the UK is one step away from going into "enemy of the people" territory.

Professor Moriarty

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

There is a logic to it. The middle class tend to look at those wealthier than them with suspicion, "why isnt that me?" They say to themselves. By contrast, the working class, particularly self employed tradesmen look up to them with admiration, "that could be me" is what they say.

That's where they are stupid. Or, let's be kind, conditioned to the point where Pavlov would be proud.

Professor Moriarty

Hurrache wrote: »

Sky News had a piece with opinions from within Europe on what the Tory leader candidates have been saying, there's a clip of it below.

https://twitter.com/Stone_SkyNews/status/1139037352230342661

People affiliated with the Brexit party are now claiming is was propaganda on behalf of the EU
https://twitter.com/Stone_SkyNews/status/1139089716270247941

Then you have other people working in the journalism profession, I wouldn't call her a journalist, attacking, and doubling down on those attacks, Beth Rigby for asking Boris Johnson the questions she asked.

https://twitter.com/allisonpearson/status/1138916086500548608

The story state of the UK is one step away into "enemy of the people" territory.

The irony of Alison Pearson accusing anyone of bias is breathtaking.

devnull

Hurrache wrote: »

Sky News had a piece with opinions from within Europe on what the Tory leader candidates have been saying, there's a clip of it below.

https://twitter.com/Stone_SkyNews/status/1139037352230342661

People affiliated with the Brexit party are now claiming is was propaganda on behalf of the EU
https://twitter.com/Stone_SkyNews/status/1139089716270247941

Then you have other people working in the journalism profession, I wouldn't call her a journalist, attacking, and doubling down on those attacks, Beth Rigby for asking Boris Johnson the questions she asked.

https://twitter.com/allisonpearson/status/1138916086500548608

The story state of the UK is one step away into "enemy of the people" territory.

The Brexiteers don't want to hear other peoples views, only their own as it allows them to stay in their fantasy world rather than get to grips with what is really going to happen. They don't want to come out of their bubble.

It's good that Sky News are showing the EU side and the Irish side from time to time as well as the British side, it's something the BBC could learn from since Laura and Katya there are woefully biased or completely misguided.

10000maniacs

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

This is an Old Etonian from a very privileged background. He has been proven to be a liar on multiple occasions. This elitist liar has spent the past 10 months (while employed as an MP) earning £700k writing self-aggrandising puff pieces in the telegraph and charging £20k an hour for self-aggrandising speeches. This is the person that White Van Man in Leeds thinks will lead him into a bright new future. You just can't fix stupid.

I personally think its a Johnson family experiment. The three siblings probably had a £1 bet to see which strategy would be most effective to make it as Prime Minister. I am not being facetious here either.
A bit like the old guys in the movie Trading Places.
Remember before the referendum, Boris was on the remain side, and then one morning he announced he was rowing in for the leave crew.

Professor Moriarty

10000maniacs wrote: »

I personally think its a Johnson family experiment. The three siblings probably had a £1 bet to see which strategy would be most effective to make it as Prime Minister. I am not being facetious here either.
A bit like the old guys in the movie Trading Places.
Remember before the referendum, Boris was on the remain side, and then one morning he announced he was rowing in for the leave crew.

I dunno. Everything I've read about Jo Johnson makes him seem like a principled person. I saw him interviewed twice and he came across as an intelligent and honest person. He gave up his position in government to promote a second referendum despite being in a Leave constituency. He seems to be the complete opposite to his brother.

54and56

Nice succinct article in The Economist (as ever) on how Brexit may play out depending who the Tory leadership contest produces as PM - https://www.economist.com/britain/2019/06/15/tory-candidates-are-misleading-people-about-a-no-deal-brexit?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/torycandidatesaremisleadingpeopleaboutanodealbrexitdealersandnodealers

TL;DR - Hardliners say it would be fine, moderates say it could be stopped. Both may be in for a nasty surprise.

10000maniacs

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I dunno. Everything I've read about Jo Johnson makes him seem like a principled person. I saw him interviewed twice and he came across as an intelligent and honest person. He gave up his position in government to promote a second referendum despite being in a Leave constituency. He seems to be the complete opposite to his brother.

I would have said that a few years ago but on a number of occasions their pro remain father, Stanley let his shield slip and started coming out will all sorts of baloney about Ireland and the Backstop and recently Rachel appeared on the Sean O'Rourke show and clammed up whenever she was asked questions about Boris and finally announced with all of Boris's bluster, Sorry, Got to be somewhere else, Bye.
I would love to know Jo's opinions on the Backstop and Ireland.

johnnyskeleton

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That's where they are stupid. Or, let's be kind, conditioned to the point where Pavlov would be proud.

I dunno. On balance I think its healthy to say "im doing ok now, but I could do better and someday I want to be like him" rather than saying "my life is bad and his is good, so I want him to suffer"

Of course I take the point that he wont necessarily have their interests at heart, but the man in the white van doesnt believe Jeremy Corbyn has his best interests at heart either, and probably thinks Corbyn wants to snuff out his trade and force him to work in a state run enterprise.

firemansam4

If come October Europe say no to any more extentions and give the UK one last chance to approve the WA.

Parliament has one straight choice of a vote between either No deal or the WA, I wonder what way that would go?
What way would Labour members vote? You would think that rational heads would have to just go with the WA rather than driving the UK over the cliff.
I can't see parliament voting for no deal under this circumstance.

Sam Russell

firemansam4 wrote: »

If come October Europe say no to any more extentions and give the UK one last chance to approve the WA.

Parliament has one straight choice of a vote between either No deal or the WA, I wonder what way that would go?
What way would Labour members vote? You would think that rational heads would have to just go with the WA rather than driving the UK over the cliff.
I can't see parliament voting for no deal under this circumstance.

They have the revoke option.

That is always there and requires no planning, no ferry companies without ferries or the port to operate from, it requires no infrastructure at Dover, or the provision of lorry parks, etc.

Just a vote to revoke Art 50 - and never speak of it again.

ancapailldorcha

Sam Russell wrote: »

They have the revoke option.

That is always there and requires no planning, no ferry companies without ferries or the port to operate from, it requires no infrastructure at Dover, or the provision of lorry parks, etc.

Just a vote to revoke Art 50 - and never speak of it again.

Politically, we don't.

Everything you say is true but the fact remains that either most people or a significant proportion of them still want Brexit. Unilaterally revoking Article 50 just substantiates Nigel Farage's demagoguery about the elites wanting to stop Brexit. It has to be via a referendum. This is simply the only way.

54and56

My 8/1 bet is still alive!!

Rory Stewart just squeaked into the next round. Leadsome, Harper and McVeigh are out.

trellheim

Yes indeed . Very clear example of Pandora's box - once open , cannot be put back to the way it was. All Cameron had to do was ignore the ERG and not hold the referendum.


Anyway here we all are on tenterhooks for the round 1 results. I hope but unlikely that Rory Stewart would get through

LeinsterDub

54&56 wrote: »

My 8/1 bet is still alive!!

Rory Stewart just squeaked into the next round. Leadsome, Harper and McVeigh are out.

The magic number is 105. If BoJo's vote holds up he'll be in the final two

trellheim

Right here we go

The candidate with the lowest number of votes was Esther McVey, with just nine votes.

However, all candidates had to get a minimum of 5% backing from the party - or 17 votes including their own - to get through to the next ballot.

This meant Mark Harper and Andrea Leadsom were also eliminated from the race, with 10 and 11 votes respectively.

Boris on top with 114

Bet Leadsom is kicking herself for not forcing it to a runoff in 2016 .

Hurrache

Johnson home and dry already I think with several weeks to go. He got 114 votes, Hunt was next with 'only' 43.

trellheim

Michael Gove: 37

Matt Hancock: 20

Mark Harper: 10

Jeremy Hunt: 43

Sajid Javid: 23

Boris Johnson: 114

Andrea Leadsom: 11

Esther McVey: 9

Dominic Raab: 27

Rory Stewart: 19

HOW ON EARTH DID BOJO get 114 votes

Christy42

trellheim wrote: »

HOW ON EARTH DID BOJO get 114 votes

When is the next vote and what will that cut off line be? Presumably it goes up from 5%.

Professor Moriarty

trellheim wrote: »

Right here we go



Boris on top with 114

Bet Leadsom is kicking herself for not forcing it to a runoff in 2016 .

May was well ahead regardless.

Inquitus

Christy42 wrote: »

When is the next vote and what will that cut off line be? Presumably it goes up from 5%.

18/19/20 June , they keep voting and the lowest is eliminated each time until two remain. In the first vote we just had, anyone with less than 5% went. Below caveat aside for votes 1 and 2.

After the first ballot, any candidate receiving sixteen votes or fewer will be eliminated.

After the second ballot, any candidate receiving thirty two votes or fewer will be eliminated.

Flex

10000maniacs wrote: »

To quote her
"EU Leaders want to avoid a no deal Brexit, so there is a little bit of wiggle room if they think that wiggle will really do the trick, what I mean by wiggle is any new Prime Minister is going to ask for something on the backstop and amongst some of the members there is more than an openness to agreeing to an end-date to the backstop if push came to shove but only if Dublin is agreeable and only if EU leaders are 100% sure it would pass through Parliament and allow everyone to move on."
LOL;)

So sifting through her usual waffle narrative/reporting format of the ‘EU are terrified, desparate to avoid no deal, dying to water down/abandon the backstop, we have them on the ropes lads’, what she’s after saying is “if Ireland announces its happy to remove the backstop and settle for something else, other EU leaders will support that, but otherwise the EU have no intention of dropping it or threatening Ireland/throwing Ireland under a bus”

The idea that there’s “wiggle room” means Ireland is about to abandon the backstop or that the EU is about to abandon Ireland. Genuinely baffled that she seems to have put either of those two scenarios together and believes they’re credible enough to report

trellheim

twitter going ape with whips for Johnson trying to get people to show photos of their ballots . 1922 committee banned them tho

Hurrache

trellheim wrote: »

twitter going ape with whips for Johnson trying to get people to show photos of their ballots . 1922 committee banned them tho

Yeah, they got banned because Johnson whips were demanding photos of the ballot paper from those who said they'd vote for him to prove they did.

markodaly

Boris Johnson home and dry to be honest.
No way is he going to fall out of the top two, and when there is going to be a runoff with the Conservative members, then he will win that in a landslide.

firemansam4

Sam Russell wrote:

They have the revoke option.

That is always there and requires no planning, no ferry companies without ferries or the port to operate from, it requires no infrastructure at Dover, or the provision of lorry parks, etc.

Just a vote to revoke Art 50 - and never speak of it again.

If only it was that easy...

But no way there would be a majority in parliament for that.

I'm just thinking if the EU give a very firm No to any more extentions except for and only if parliament vote for the WA.

I think under these circumstances it would pass, all votes before that there was always the safety net of an extention to avoid no deal.

Strazdas

The Tory Party are screwed. It seems the majority of their MPs are pro No Deal