Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Joe_ Public

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That's brightened my day! Except the Hoey bit.

The upside is the honourable lady is almost certain to be offered a hobsons choice by her party before the next GE: resign or face deselection.

funkey_monkey

Rjd2 wrote: »

4 left all grim choices. I think lesser of all evils and its not saying much is Saj as he will be reliant on Stewart voters so hopefully that might stop him trying to out farage Farage.

All 5 were grim choices. Championing May's WA which had been turned down 3 times is no less stupid than TM trying to run the clock out for it herself.

Stewart shot himself in the foot last night with an awful performance.
'Saj' has no chance either.
Hunt is too polite as a debater to take on Boris and challenge him. Gove may give him a tougher challenge but this race is pretty much run now.


I think it is only fitting that BJ who is essentially the face of brexit (Farage aside) should be at the wheel when this car crash actually happens.

listermint

Led by donkeys should now run a massive campaign promoting Boris the man who will now deliver the deepest recession in UK history.

Just so he's really really tied to it.

steddyeddy

I actually hope Boris gets it just so he can actually take some responsibility for the monster he's created. May it give him many sleepless nights.

Dante7

https://twitter.com/rafaelbehr/status/1141395599910166530?s=19

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

I actually hope Boris gets it just so he can actually take some responsibility for the monster he's created. May it give him many sleepless nights.

Gonna make him and his ilk a lot of money, so he won't care.

Another point is, doesn't the queen have to ask him if he thinks he can command the majority of the house? Because I honestly don't think Bojo can. There's a lot of Tories that despise him.

A Shropshire Lad

I can only imagine the tactical voting that goes on there. Boris probably had people vote for others to get Stewart out

Channel 4 reported yesterday that some members were sneaking in mobile phones to take a photo of the ballot to prove that they had voted the way they promised

Joe_ Public

Deleted User wrote: »

Gonna make him and his ilk a lot of money, so he won't care.

Another point is, doesn't the queen have to ask him if he thinks he can command the majority of the house? Because I honestly don't think Bojo can. There's a lot of Tories that despise him.

Not sure how it will play out, but i suspect that scenario might quite suit him in many ways. An early GE, before they get to the position of failing to deliver brexit, would be sweet music to his ears. Not sure how far fetched that is, though, anything possible perhaps...

Capt'n Midnight

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think that observation has been made many times, and is accurate. The strategy, such as there was one, was to divide and conquer via bilateral diplomacy. That they thought they could do this is related to them fundamentally underestimating the competence and health of the EU. Which would go hand in hand with being Brexity to begin with.

It also would have required, imo, much greater capability within the British Civil Service. The indications are that they are not on the EU’s level in terms of negotiation and everything that surrounds it. Boris Johnson being at the helm won’t change that.

The problem is at the top.

Given achievable goals the UK civil service could have delivered. Getting the EU to allow all of the UK to remain in the backstop for the transition should have been seen as heroic rather than as traitors. Instead they got were moving goalposts.

The Tánaiste praised British civil servants as arguably the best in the world

Dave Penman .. said ..
“We have situation where the civil service are having to negotiate effectively with both hands tied behind their back; it is unclear what they are being asked to deliver; the government can’t agree with itself,”

Joe_ Public

Remember at their first (informal) gathering after the brexit vote, Theresa May blithely suggesting to Juncker and the other gathered Europeans that they were keen to get started on trade negotiations even before they'd discussed the parameters of the divorce settlement. I recall one of the EU delegation actually thinking she was making a joke, british sense of humour! You can talk about strategy, but May herself set the hostile tone of the negotiations with her red lines and then immediately signposted their basic ignorance and incompetence at the above meeting.

As for the civil service, they had a very well respected emissary in Brussels who was constantly warning the government they were heading down a path of great pain and its reaction was to eventually have him replaced with a guy whose job was simply to tell them what they wanted to hear. Just scarcely believable incompetence from start to finish and still ongoing.

First Up

Joe_ Public wrote:

As for the civil service, they had a very well respected emissary in Brussels who was constantly warning the government they were heading down a path of great pain and its reaction was to eventually have him replaced with a guy whose job was simply to tell them what they wanted to hear.

He resigned, after getting fed up talking to the wall.

A Shropshire Lad

No insults please.

Laois_Man

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

I can only imagine the tactical voting that goes on there. Boris probably had people vote for others to get Stewart out

Stewart lost 10 votes since yesterday - that's what did for him.

I just want them gone!

fash

BluePlanet wrote: »

I found this blog/website informative on the various Brexit trade issues.
https://www.explaintrade.com/

Not sure who is running it but it should be required reading for Brexit slow learners.

Dmitry Grozoubinski - an ozzie international negotiator living in Switzerland and well known in the "how silly is Brexit" twitter-sphere

Frank Bullitt

I can only imagine what the EU will be thinking watching these debates, and with the impending doom of Boris Johnson as the leader of the UK...

ambro25

Gintonious wrote: »

I can only imagine what the EU will be thinking watching these debates, and with the impending doom of Boris Johnson as the leader of the UK...

A combination of "meet the new UK boss, same as the old UK boss" and "same s**t, different day", I imagine.

Leroy42

There is no impending doom regardless of who the Tories pick. The issues remain the same, the same issues facing TM. Recall that TM started off gung-ho, telling the EU what's what, no deal better than a bad deal, using citizens rights as bargaining chips etc.

TM didn't end up with the WA because she didn't want to deliver Brexit. It wasn't because she was a secret remainer only dying to keep immigration open. She ended up with it because it was the best they could do.

And whomever is the next PM will face exactly the same issues. The biggest of which is that Brexit is fundamentally a terrible idea. The world is fundamentally different from 40 odd years ago and the reality is that Brexit forces the UK back into that world rather than the actual reality of the world they face.

So Johnson, Gove or even they the whole lot of them can do little but bang the table and act the hard man but Davis, Raab have all tried that but the EU know the reality facing both themselves and the UK.

black forest

ambro25 wrote: »

A combination of "meet the new UK boss, same as the old UK boss" and "same s**t, different day", I imagine.

So in fact it will be an interesting renaissance of a former meeting in Brussels. At least Sabine Weyand is already waiting for Boris.:D

On May 29th 2019, Weyand was announced[14] as the EU's new Director-general for Trade with effect from June 1st, replacing Jean-Luc Demarty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabine_Weyand

ambro25

black forest wrote: »

So in fact it will be an interesting renaissance of a former meeting in Brussels. At least Sabine Weyand is already waiting for Boris.:D

Aye, saw that a while back and, between 'Sabine the machine' and the next Commission President who, unlikely to be a Luxembourger like Juncker (as such, used to coalition politics pragmatism since forever), will in all probability be German, I think BoJo is in for a far rougher ride in Brussels, than Davis/Raab/May ever had.

First Up

ambro25 wrote:

I think BoJo is in for a far rougher ride in Brussels, than Davis/Raab/May ever had.

It will be short.

Capt'n Midnight

A reminder that EU related spending is still going on because no one knows if/when the UK will leave.

B an off the shelf techno solution at ten times the going rate ?
Oh yeah the magic eborder to replace the backstop would be on time, on budget :rolleyes:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/06/19/uk_drone_database_crazy_cost/

A government database intended to store the personal details of around 150,000 drone fliers is set to cost around £4m plus to buy and £2.8m to maintain – despite a similar database costing Defra just £300k a year.

The Civil Aviation Authority's (CAA) planned database of drone fliers is to comply with new EU laws and will also make it mandatory for anyone flying a drone weighing more than 250g to register with the state.

Dante7

Thread with another Rory story. I really like this guy.

https://twitter.com/CharLeach24x/status/1141415890195533824?s=19

devnull

I'll just leave this here, tomorrow's Daily Mail



Was hoping these kind of front pages with Dacre gone were a thing of the past but it seems not. Not their worst by any means and I'm no lover of the BBC, but seems a bit OTT.

Professor Moriarty

devnull wrote: »

I'll just leave this here, tomorrow's Daily Mail



Was hoping these kind of front pages with Dacre gone were a thing of the past but it seems not. Not their worst by any means and I'm no lover of the BBC, but seems a bit OTT.

Just need a Fake News tweet from Trump to complete the set.

LeinsterDub

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1141469377319120896

Just when all the unicorns are flying in the Tory leadership campaign this report is released. Certainly interesting timing

Frank Bullitt

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1141469377319120896

Just when all the unicorns are flying in the Tory leadership campaign this report is released. Certainly interesting timing

Tony to the rescue again. Granted though, this series of tweets just hammers home the impact a hard Brexit will have on NI.

10000maniacs

Emily Maitlis was very poor journalistically speaking. A proper journalist would have dealt Johnson a sucker punch after his GATT Article 24 comments.
The Northern Irish guy should have done so too.

Hurrache

Gintonious wrote: »

Tony to the rescue again. Granted though, this series of tweets just hammers home the impact a hard Brexit will have on NI.

We're pretty much a united ireland in all but name in the context of North-South cooperation

Capt'n Midnight

Hurrache wrote: »

We're pretty much a united ireland in all but name in the context of North-South cooperation

Meanwhile Karen Bradley can't organise a píss up for Irish people with a free bar.

Lots of Conservative talk about giving Stornmount a say. Unless they specifically rule out the Petition Of Concern then its effectively giving the DUP + UUP a veto.



The DUP are Kingmakers, and all they've got to show for it is a few quid and lip service. The ERG are only using the backstop as a red herring. Without it there'd be other "concerns".



They still have the option of pulling the plug on the govt. They'll still get re-elected so no risk.

The big payoff is that a GE could mean no Brexit or a Customs Union, either meet their demand for no divergence from the UK , apart from the existing divergences on major socioeconomics.

If it's a hung parliament they are back in the driving seat.


If Labour win , well have the Tories actually done for them so far ?
Besides Corbyn is too busy with the foot shooting to win.

Enzokk

Interesting thread about Mark Rutte's interview on Radio 4 this morning. Nothing new in the EU position, other than they hope the UK will not waste time by having the new PM going over territory already covered before.

https://twitter.com/GeorginaEWright/status/1141618027177357313