Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

kunst nugget

ambro25 wrote: »

You might not follow continental news, much, do you?

Front (online) page everywhere across the Benelux, France & Germany, right now.

Not earning much goodwill for the Brits' next extension, there, either.

Which is exactly the whole point of the endeavour.

Leroy42

Well the BRexit party are not looking for goodwill. They want a No deal by 31 Oct, it is their own electorate they are targeting with this.

But in terms of helping the UK, which at the end of the day is what they are supposed to be doing, it isn't going to help but when one is convinced that the best and only option is to leave without a deal then losing goodwill is of no consequence.

What is does do, of course, is mean that any other MEP should ignore these guys are clearly they are not there to work with anyone else and have no intention of actually working to anyone's benefit (but themselves of course).

ambro25

kunst nugget wrote: »

Which is exactly the whole point of the endeavour.

We're talking Brexit Party MEPs here: it's for domestic consumption (there's a GE coming, and the Express, Breitbart & co. need the material).

I doubt they'd even understand the effect on the EU27, never mind that they planned it to deliberately stoke hostile sentiment in the EU27.

Leroy42

ambro25 wrote: »

We're talking Brexit Party MEPs here: it's for domestic consumption, there's a GE coming.

I doubt they'd even understand the optics on the EU27, never mind that they planned those deliberately.

Whatever your feeling on Farage, one thing that everyone should be able to agree on is that he, and thus the Brexit party, is very adept at manipulating the audience.

I am pretty certain that very little of these things, such as the recent twitter videos of BP MEP's arriving at the parliament, are not thought and planned and part of a wider PR scheme.

farmchoice

Leroy42 wrote: »

Right, so its not protesting just attention seeking. Using the institutions of the EU do get themselves attention?


In terms of the impact of Brexit, there is almost no chance, certainly nothing based on anything other than hope, that the UK will be better off than the EU. The world has three economic powers (US, China and the EU) with possibly India joining along. How will the UK possibly get into that level? Because if they are in the ones making the decisions, then they will be the ones having to accept them.

There is nothing, and even Brexiteers don't try to claim otherwise, that the UK can be in a stronger position after leaving the EU. It is all based on the hope that the EU will start to stall and that the lessor countries (in terms of economic power) will continue to rise. But for that to work it is predicated on these 'new' countries being willing to accept that the UK will be in charge. Just as the UK expect them to grow, so they can see the UK are weaker and they will exploit it.

There is simply no factual basis on which to expect that the UK will be better off than the EU after Brexit. Short, medium or long term.

once free of the shackles of the EU can UK can go back to being global puppet masters, playing one side off against the other using there cunning and guile to get one over johnny foreigner at every turn, thick vulgar yanks or Chinese ex farm boys, doesn't matter, the Brits see them for what they are, have their number and will play them just like they did in the old days of empire.
they can lean on the Germans (car) and intimidate the french (wine and cheese) the Canadians and new Zealanders and Australians secretly yearn for the hand of there colonial masters to once again protect and rule them.



This is a fact, the history of that sepulchered isle teaches us so and anyone who disagrees is a lackey.... of someone... the trade unions, the EU, the editor of the Guardian.

kunst nugget

ambro25 wrote: »

We're talking Brexit Party MEPs here: it's for domestic consumption (there's a GE coming, and the Express, Breitbart & co. need the material).

I doubt they'd even understand the effect on the EU27, never mind that they planned it to deliberately stoke hostile sentiment in the EU27.

That seems unbelievably naive. Of course they know how it's going to play out with the EU27.

ancapailldorcha

ambro25 wrote: »

We're talking Brexit Party MEPs here: it's for domestic consumption (there's a GE coming, and the Express, Breitbart & co. need the material).

I doubt they'd even understand the effect on the EU27, never mind that they planned it to deliberately stoke hostile sentiment in the EU27.

It's the absolute height of hypocrisy though. Imagine the uproar if even a single MEP even failed to rise if the British anthem was played.

First Up

kunst nugget wrote:

That seems unbelievably naive. Of course they know how it's going to play out with the EU27.

The EU 27 is well aware that this is all Farage and his like have got. Nobody who matters gives a sh*t about this sort of nonsense.

Berserker

ambro25 wrote: »

You might not follow continental news, much, do you?

Front (online) page everywhere across the Benelux, France & Germany, right now.

Not earning much goodwill for the Brits' next extension, there, either.

So they got exactly what they wanted regarding attention. The Brexit party do not want an extension. They want to leave, deal or no deal.

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It's the absolute height of hypocrisy though. Imagine the uproar if even a single MEP even failed to rise if the British anthem was played.

Big difference between a national anthem, any national anthem and the EU anthem. Didn't even realise that they played it in parliament. A pledge of allegiance will be next.

Leroy42

Johnson and Hunt are in NI today for the leadership hustings.

First question from Ian Dunt to Johnson and his reply - I repeat they are in NI and thus should be aware that some questions will involve NI!

Iain Dale asks his first question.

Q: I asked my taxi driver on the way here what he would like to ask. He wanted to know why the MLAs were being paid. What would you do to get the assembly up and running again?

Johnson says he would urge all sides to get the assembly back running again.

Q: What are the problems?

Johnson says people know what the problems are. Compromise is needed.

Q: What would you do?

Johnson says he would do what needs to be done.

Hasn't got a scooby do. Didn't even bother to read up the most basic details.

10000maniacs

20silkcut wrote: »

The curates egg comes to mind.

So only 2.5% of beef on our shelves is potentially dodgy.

Very re-assuring.

After the meat producer shenanigans that precipitated the horse meat scandal here some years ago or the Irish contaminated pig meat scandal, I do not have much confidence in meat producers wherever they are whether from Ireland, Europe, Brazil or Argentina.
Every time I sit down to eat a steak, I think to myself, is this the one that's going to do me over?

Berserker

Leroy42 wrote: »

But in terms of helping the UK, which at the end of the day is what they are supposed to be doing, it isn't going to help but when one is convinced that the best and only option is to leave without a deal then losing goodwill is of no consequence.

Yep, delivering Brexit is the best way to the help the UK in their eyes.

Leroy42 wrote: »

Johnson and Hunt are in NI today for the leadership hustings.

First question from Ian Dunt to Johnson and his reply - I repeat they are in NI and thus should be aware that some questions will involve NI!

Hasn't got a scooby do. Didn't even bother to read up the most basic details.

Bit harsh there. Are those vague responses any different to the majority of political leaders outside of N.I.? What did Hunt say?

Tell me how

Leroy42 wrote: »

Johnson and Hunt are in NI today for the leadership hustings.

First question from Ian Dunt to Johnson and his reply - I repeat they are in NI and thus should be aware that some questions will involve NI!



Hasn't got a scooby do. Didn't even bother to read up the most basic details.

Well, when the Northern Ireland Secretary doesn't understand the absolute ground floor level basics of the place, can't expect old Boris to.

This whole thing is incredibly frustrating the last few years. The above reminds me of him who must not be named across the water in the US and his absolute inability to hold a cogent thought or argument on any topic which impacts society more so than it does him.

It's frustrating because it shows that waffle/spin, money and friends/supporters can bring you to the highest seat in countries which are massively influential on Ireland. All of this lowers the tone as it shows others what is required to win and so more will play this game.

We will see this ourselves I expect when PC finally wins an election in Ireland at the next GE. The world is severely lacking in leaders with a reasonable/realistic societal view at the moment.

Leroy42

Berserker wrote: »

Big difference between a national anthem, any national anthem and the EU anthem. Didn't even realise that they played it in parliament. A pledge of allegiance will be next.

Not really. There is no reason for me to stand for the British anthem except for respect.

There was no need to stand, but to turn their back is a sign of disrespect. Even to the musicians themselves.

It was an act of disrespect and can you imagine if Tusk came to the HoC and didn't stand for the Queen. Remember when Michelle Obama had the audacity to touch the queen when talking to her?

Like everything else in relation to Brexit, it appears that only UK things are important and everything else is simply a waste of time and money.

kunst nugget

10000maniacs wrote: »

Every time I sit down to eat a steak, I think to myself, is this the one that's going to do me over?

How do you actually exist if you live in that state of hysteria the whole time?

Leroy42

Berserker wrote: »

Bit harsh there. Are those vague responses any different to the majority of political leaders outside of N.I.? What did Hunt say?

Ah hold on, there is vague answers and then there is clearly a person that has no idea. What are the issues? Everyone knows the issues! That is a 10 year olds answer.

I repeat, he had purposefully gone to NI, this wasn't some out of the blue doorstep interview where he was ambushed about some off topic issue. He was in NI. He was there to tell NI just how important it was to the future of the UK. And he wasn't even bothered to read the most basic outline.

InTheShadows

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That's disgusting. It's getting increasingly hard to maintain a positive view of the British electorate these days.

:pac: Will you get over yourself. Disgusting

10000maniacs

kunst nugget wrote: »

How do you actually exist if you live in that state of hysteria the whole time?

Just making the point that I have as high/low a threshold of trust for South American beef as I do for EU beef.

Professor Moriarty

InTheShadows wrote: »

:pac: Will you get over yourself. Disgusting

What would your description/opinion be?

ambro25

Leroy42 wrote: »

Whatever your feeling on Farage, one thing that everyone should be able to agree on is that he, and thus the Brexit party, is very adept at manipulating the audience.

I am pretty certain that very little of these things, such as the recent twitter videos of BP MEP's arriving at the parliament, are not thought and planned and part of a wider PR scheme.

Farage is a solid platinum populist straight out of the LePen senior mould, I have no doubt either that he orchestrated this collective behaviour, and all other Brexit Party-related social/main media-grabbing acts.

I was talking about Brexit Party MEPs in general, however, very few of whom have convinced me so far, through interviews and other outings, that they have the intellectual capacity and political acumen to do anything other than to represent their self-interest alone, and over extremely short-term timescales at that (Farage excepted, as that fabled exception which confirms the rule).

We've seen them before as UKIP politicians/MEPs: rabble acting the senior useful idiots to Führage's own self-interest.

Now you can call me naive for doubting that they (alright, most of them) are aware of the goodwill-killing effect of this and other stunts stunt amongst the EU27, but if Nigel and consultants à la Bannon weren't telling them what to do, how to do it and when to do it, I very much doubt that most of them would be in Brussels as an MEP to begin with.

Stop moaning ffs

These same morons doing this ‘protest’ today and the morons they’re pitching it to are the same ones roaring racist and sectarian abuse at James MClane for refusing to wear the poppy. His protest is legitimate though.
This one today is beyond childish. Embarrassing Britain on a global scale.

InTheShadows

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

What would your description/opinion be?

I think they have every right to make a protest in the way they have.

Professor Moriarty

InTheShadows wrote: »

I think they have every right to make a protest in the way they have.

They have the right. But do you think they were correct to do what they did?

Berserker

Leroy42 wrote: »

Not really. There is no reason for me to stand for the British anthem except for respect.

There was no need to stand, but to turn their back is a sign of disrespect. Even to the musicians themselves.

Would sitting have been a more acceptable protest then? As I said above, the Brexit Party should not have taken their seats or salaries in the parliament. I'm surprised that they have taken them. Refusing to take your seats, your salary and highlighting those facts would have been a better approach.

Tell me how

ambro25 wrote: »

Now you can call me naive for doubting that they (alright, most of them) are aware of the goodwill-killing effect of this and other stunts stunt amongst the EU27, but if Nigel and consultants à la Bannon weren't telling them what to do, how to do it and when to do it, I very much doubt that most of them would be in Brussels as an MEP to begin with.

And there will likely be a significant portion of them in the HoC after the next GE.

It is very surprising how easy it can be to advance when you decide not to care if people realise you really don't give a sh*t about the common good.

Brexit party refused to publish a mandate before the EU elections, they are refusing to name their GE candidates who they unveiled somewhat in Birmingham at the weekend and they scream about the establishment like it's something which can be identified as anti-British as opposed to entirely selfish.

trellheim

I was surprised to see them taking their seats, if I'm honest.

Dont they have to take the seats to get paid ? Never forget the gravy train

10000maniacs

InTheShadows wrote: »

I think they have every right to make a protest in the way they have.

I don't think they do. Its like going to a house party and insulting the hosts hospitality.

Tell me how

Berserker wrote: »

Would sitting have been a more acceptable protest then? As I said above, the Brexit Party should not have taken their seats or salaries in the parliament. I'm surprised that they have taken them. Refusing to take your seats, your salary and highlighting those facts would have been a better approach.

What are they protesting? They all choose to campaign in order to attend the parliament.
The reason it is such a poor show is because it flies in the face of democratic principles which, like them or loathe them are critical in facilitating some sort of harmony between communities and nations.

They scream about WW1 and WW2 seemingly without understanding that it can happen again and they are making such an event more likely in behaving this way.

It's not the beginning of a war, but it's the beginning of the end of a time when major players in Europe were working together, to paraphrase Churchill who they love so much.

VinLieger

trellheim wrote: »

Dont they have to take the seats to get paid ? Never forget the gravy train

They actually don't, brian crowley had the lowest attendance record for the last 2 EU parliaments and got paid as well as collected his expenses

VinLieger

InTheShadows wrote: »

I think they have every right to make a protest in the way they have.

And if SF hypothetically took their westminster seats and behaved like this for god save the queen these are the very people who would literally be calling for their heads, they are disgusting self serving hypocrites