Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Loafing Oaf

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Couple of observations about todays tory party hustings that may or may not have been previously mentioned:

Johnson prattles on ad nauseum about the supposed horrors of Corbyn and the most dangerous cabal ever getting their hands on the reins of power and leading the country to disaster when it is Johnson himself and his ever more dangerous cabal that is hurtling the UK ever closer to the cliff face and a chaos not seen since the last world war. Go figure.

Well obviously the vast majority of his audience don't see things like that, and they're the people he has to win over, or more precisely keep on his side I suppose. What Bojo himself believes in his heart of hearts, who knows?

Sam Russell

I was amazed that there are 500 members of the Conservative party in NI or did they ship in 450 from elsewhere, or are they paid actors like Trump used when he initially launched his bid for PORTUS.

Strazdas

Laois_Man wrote: »

You can tell Farage is worried about it backfiring when he goes in front of the camera's and gives a totally dishonest account of what happened

His description here in no way matches the full footage here where they were sniggering after precisely 8 seconds and standing with their back turned right from the start of the anthem!

It's nonsense that only countries have flags and anthems. Organisations and international bodies have them too : UEFA has them, so does Eurovision, the International Olympic Committee, the IAAF etc

Laois_Man

Strazdas wrote: »

It's nonsense that only countries have flags and anthems. Organisations and international bodies have them too : UEFA has them, so does Eurovision, the International Olympic Committee, the IAAF etc

And NATO - Who, like the EU with it's ECJ which they're so annoyed about, also has the ICJ which they never mention!

Stop moaning ffs

Doesn’t the British commonwealth have an anthem aside from that awful GSTQ dirge ?

Joe_ Public

In one of the rows there's actually a couple of the brexit meps holding hands. What the flip is that about?

MrMusician18

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Hopefully it's backfired spectacularly.

If I ever go to Twitter and click through comments on Brexit it is always posters with non identifier handles that post exclusively on Brexit. They don't seem to be normal people that engage with a variety of topics, just one and hardcore.

As for the behaviour in parliament today, the Brexit party nor the Lib Dems covered themselves in glory. Europe doesn't need their pantomime politics further poisoning the well. They should keep their theatrics to Westminster.

While parliament want the place for it, disrespecting an anthem is a normal form of protest, turning your back, taking the knee and just sitting are all ways to show that you don't recognize the institution it represents. It should be noted that other populists in the parliament didn't stand.

Laois_Man

Murmurs that Donald Tusk had proposed Leo Varadkar as one of 3 names to assume the role European Commission President to replace Junker, and Leo asked not to be considered.

It might have been good to have an Irishman in the role with the advent of Brexit

And might also have been good to have Simon Coveney assume the role of Taoiseach!

Strazdas

Laois_Man wrote: »

Murmurs that Donald Tusk had proposed Leo Varadkar as one of 3 names to assume the role European Commission President to replace Junker, and Leo asked not to be considered.

It might have been good to have an Irishman in the role with the advent of Brexit

And might also have been good to have Simon Coveney assume the role of Taoiseach!

I imagine Varadkar's thinking is that it is way too soon in his career. He's only been Taoiseach for two years and is still a young man.

devnull

In the UK at the moment and local Tory association is running a campaign at grass roots level to back Boris on the basis that he will not allow the EU to put up a hard border against the wishes of the UK and if the Irish government or the EU put one up they will be breaking the Good Friday agreement and will have blood on their hands.

The groundwork is really now being laid for the usual Tory party policy of doing everything behind the scenes that messed the country up but finding some else to blame. See also, blaming the Mayor of London for knife crime whilst making big cuts to policing.

The Tory party are good at two things, willfully derelicting their duties and having a blame culture so everyone is to blame but themselves. The arrogance of Boris and the wider party is staggering, but the Brexiteers are now lapping it up. My father lives in ENgland and basically is repeating every word that Boris mutters!

The arrogance of the Brits is still very much alive and well, they make a list and everyone else must agree to it and if they are not then they see it as punishment. The thing is, the older population for the most part don't see that it's not punishment at all, it's called the consequences of leaving and honest people would take responsibility for that, but the Tory party aren't honest at all, they have huge deelusions of grandeur.

I know of several families now where relationships have completely broken down and people are not talking to each other over the whole thing. This is directly caused by many of those politicians who have not been honest with the electorate and have sewn division for their own agendas. It is an absolute disgrace and if I was living there right now I would be so angry, just as well I only work there some of the time.

Enzokk

The European Council has reached agreement on the leadership for EU institutions.

https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1146102183034785792

https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1146102257555050496

https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1146102340732235776

https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1146102409959227395

Women to head top EU institutions for first time

Two women have been backed by the EU’s leaders to head the European commission and European Central Bank, breaking with more than 60 years of male dominance at the top of the bloc’s institutions.

After three days of tortuous negotiations, Germany’s defence minister, Ursula von der Leyen, received the support of heads of state and government to replace Jean-Claude Juncker as president of the commission in Brussels. And the French managing director of the International Monetary Fund, Christine Lagarde, will move to Frankfurt to take over from Mario Draghi as the first female president of the ECB.

KildareP

Nigel getting a fair bit of abuse on his LBC show tonight.

gooch2k9

I'd say The Telegraph's cartoonists are already digging for dirt on the nominees. They'll miss Juncker and his wine.

As for the number of conservatives here in NI, they do run candidates in the GEs but I don't think they get more than a handful of votes so I too would be surprised at the 500 count.

ancapailldorcha

KildareP wrote: »

Nigel getting a fair bit of abuse on his LBC show tonight.

FYI, if you're watching this on Youtube live try and ignore the chat. It's depressingly predictable.

pixelburp

Where has Rees-Mogg disappeared to these days, seemed like you couldn't move without him popping up in every political chattering - including some blather about a leadership challenge? Yet I can't say I've seen his face or read/heard his words in months. Keeping his head down or just frozen out of the "grown up" games?

Feels like his feet should be held much closer to the fire of this debacle than they currently are (though that rings true for a great many people)

Leroy42

Preston did an interview with Hunt today with a few interesting bits (IMO).

Hunt expects that No Deal could end up costing the state 90bn. He never said, or disappointingly was never asked, who exactly was going to pay for this.

The effects of No Deal could be as bad as the 2008 financial crash. UK are still under austerity!

Any of his spending commitments (extra money for MoD for example) are predicated on getting a deal. No deal means they would be taken off the table.

He got completely stumped when Preston tried to work out exactly what his plan was. He said he wanted to get a deal worked out that he could be sure to pass HoC and present that to the EU, but couldn't give a date when he would look to get that. Preston said it would have to be prior to 30th Sept, as that was his cut off date, and he simply changed it to 31 Oct.

The one thing that I clearly take form it, and other interviews, is that neither of them have any real plan beyond New Deal.

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1146091724793700353

Leroy42

pixelburp wrote: »

Where has Rees-Mogg disappeared to these days, seemed like you couldn't move without him popping up in every political chattering - including some blather about a leadership challenge? Yet I can't say I've seen his face or read/heard his words in months. Keeping his head down or just frozen out of the "grown up" games?

Feels like his feet should be held much closer to the fire of this debacle than they currently are (though that rings true for a great many people)

He is staying very much out of it. He cannot be held responsible if he doesn't get involved. But you can be sure he is very much involved behind the scenes.

brickster69

gooch2k9 wrote: »

I'd say The Telegraph's cartoonists are already digging for dirt on the nominees.

Won't take them long.

https://www.efe.com/efe/english/world/spain-s-foreign-minister-fined-for-insider-trading-sparking-calls-to-resign/50000262-3825834

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/christine-lagarde-convicted-imf-head-found-guilty-of-negligence-in-fraud-trial-a7484586.html

otnomart

Laois_Man wrote: »

Murmurs that Donald Tusk had proposed Leo Varadkar as one of 3 names to assume the role European Commission President to replace Junker, and Leo asked not to be considered.

It might have been good to have an Irishman in the role with the advent of Brexit

I also feel that Timmermans (who was vetoed by Varadkar) would have been more favourable to Ireland.
While the President - nominee might go after Corporate Tax in Ireland, Netherlands, Luxembourg.

Strazdas

devnull wrote: »

In the UK at the moment and local Tory association is running a campaign at grass roots level to back Boris on the basis that he will not allow the EU to put up a hard border against the wishes of the UK and if the Irish government or the EU put one up they will be breaking the Good Friday agreement and will have blood on their hands.

The groundwork is really now being laid for the usual Tory party policy of doing everything behind the scenes that messed the country up but finding some else to blame. See also, blaming the Mayor of London for knife crime whilst making big cuts to policing.

The Tory party are good at two things, willfully derelicting their duties and having a blame culture so everyone is to blame but themselves. The arrogance of Boris and the wider party is staggering, but the Brexiteers are now lapping it up. My father lives in ENgland and basically is repeating every word that Boris mutters!

The arrogance of the Brits is still very much alive and well, they make a list and everyone else must agree to it and if they are not then they see it as punishment. The thing is, the older population for the most part don't see that it's not punishment at all, it's called the consequences of leaving and honest people would take responsibility for that, but the Tory party aren't honest at all, they have huge deelusions of grandeur.

I know of several families now where relationships have completely broken down and people are not talking to each other over the whole thing. This is directly caused by many of those politicians who have not been honest with the electorate and have sewn division for their own agendas. It is an absolute disgrace and if I was living there right now I would be so angry, just as well I only work there some of the time.

A bonkers way of looking at things. The UK unilaterally withdraws from the SMCU (a pretty hostile act by any stretch of the imagination) and then accuses the EU and Ireland of breaching the GFA (!)

Professor Moriarty

MrMusician18 wrote: »

If I ever go to Twitter and click through comments on Brexit it is always posters with non identifier handles that post exclusively on Brexit. They don't seem to be normal people that engage with a variety of topics, just one and hardcore.

As for the behaviour in parliament today, the Brexit party nor the Lib Dems covered themselves in glory. Europe doesn't need their pantomime politics further poisoning the well. They should keep their theatrics to Westminster.

While parliament want the place for it, disrespecting an anthem is a normal form of protest, turning your back, taking the knee and just sitting are all ways to show that you don't recognize the institution it represents. It should be noted that other populists in the parliament didn't stand.

But only the Brexit party made headlines throughout Europe. Why?

woohoo!!!

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

MrMusician18 wrote: »

If I ever go to Twitter and click through comments on Brexit it is always posters with non identifier handles that post exclusively on Brexit. They don't seem to be normal people that engage with a variety of topics, just one and hardcore.

As for the behaviour in parliament today, the Brexit party nor the Lib Dems covered themselves in glory. Europe doesn't need their pantomime politics further poisoning the well. They should keep their theatrics to Westminster.

While parliament want the place for it, disrespecting an anthem is a normal form of protest, turning your back, taking the knee and just sitting are all ways to show that you don't recognize the institution it represents. It should be noted that other populists in the parliament didn't stand.

But only the Brexit party made headlines throughout Europe. Why?

They didn't. Don't mistake British and Irish attention to them as being newsworthy throughout Europe. The opening parliament barely registers, the wheeling and dealing over top EU positions does.

J Mysterio

devnull wrote: »

In the UK at the moment and local Tory association is running a campaign at grass roots level to back Boris on the basis that he will not allow the EU to put up a hard border against the wishes of the UK and if the Irish government or the EU put one up they will be breaking the Good Friday agreement and will have blood on their hands.

The groundwork is really now being laid for the usual Tory party policy of doing everything behind the scenes that messed the country up but finding some else to blame. See also, blaming the Mayor of London for knife crime whilst making big cuts to policing.

The Tory party are good at two things, willfully derelicting their duties and having a blame culture so everyone is to blame but themselves. The arrogance of Boris and the wider party is staggering, but the Brexiteers are now lapping it up. My father lives in ENgland and basically is repeating every word that Boris mutters!

The arrogance of the Brits is still very much alive and well, they make a list and everyone else must agree to it and if they are not then they see it as punishment. The thing is, the older population for the most part don't see that it's not punishment at all, it's called the consequences of leaving and honest people would take responsibility for that, but the Tory party aren't honest at all, they have huge deelusions of grandeur.

I know of several families now where relationships have completely broken down and people are not talking to each other over the whole thing. This is directly caused by many of those politicians who have not been honest with the electorate and have sewn division for their own agendas. It is an absolute disgrace and if I was living there right now I would be so angry, just as well I only work there some of the time.

I feel your pain, but don't let Brexit ruin the relationship with your Dad.

J Mysterio

otnomart wrote: »

I also feel that Timmermans (who was vetoed by Varadkar) would have been more favourable to Ireland.
While the President - nominee might go after Corporate Tax in Ireland, Netherlands, Luxembourg.

Who said Varadkar vetoed anybody? Is there a source for that.

MrMusician18

J Mysterio wrote: »

Who said Varadkar vetoed anybody? Is there a source for that.

RTE reported last night that he was against Timmermans because he is a socialist but EPP won the election.

No state has a veto QMV for the nomination but they were looking for unanimity, or close to unanimity.

Beechwoodspark

gooch2k9 wrote: »

I'd say The Telegraph's cartoonists are already digging for dirt on the nominees. They'll miss Juncker and his wine.

As for the number of conservatives here in NI, they do run candidates in the GEs but I don't think they get more than a handful of votes so I too would be surprised at the 500 count.

Juncker was a cognac for breakfast man apparently.

otnomart

J Mysterio wrote: »

Who said Varadkar vetoed anybody? Is there a source for that.

I have read it first on Politico
“As EPP, we haven’t agreed to the package that was negotiated in Osaka. I think it’s fair to say there’s a lot opposition to the proposal that was made in Osaka from the EPP’s point of view," Varadkar said, arriving at the Council's Europa building. "The vast majority of the EPP prime ministers don’t believe that we should give up the presidency of the Commission quite so easily, without a fight.”
Full article here https://www.politico.eu/article/european-council-summit-conservatives-rebel-against-angela-merkel-eu-top-jobs-osaka-g20-plan/

Beechwoodspark

Strazdas wrote: »

I imagine Varadkar's thinking is that it is way too soon in his career. He's only been Taoiseach for two years and is still a young man.

The reports were that it was sprung on him by Tusk sort of out of desperation to come to some arrangement. Firstly LV didn’t want the role and also didn’t have a notion if he was popular enough to get the role. He was right to decline it I think.

Professor Moriarty

woohoo!!! wrote: »

They didn't. Don't mistake British and Irish attention to them as being newsworthy throughout Europe. The opening parliament barely registers, the wheeling and dealing over top EU positions does.

They did. This afternoon, the Brexit Party's antics were headline news on the websites of Der Spiegel, Le Figaro, El Pais and Corriere della Sera.

otnomart

otnomart wrote: »

I have read it first on Politico

And also came across this on Twitter


"What ended up sinking Merkel’s “Osaka plan” was not the far-right in Hungary, Poland and Italy. It was instead the more centrist leaders of Ireland, Bulgaria, Croatia, and Latvia. They balked, saying such an arrangement made it seem as if the EPP had come third in the election, when they had in fact won. They would not countenance letting the commission presidency slip from the EPP’s grip.
Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar was, surprisingly, the most vocal in his objections."
Full article here: https://berlinpolicyjournal.com/spoiled-victors/