Working with SNAs

linguist

This year I've been working with SNAs in quite a number of my classes (post primary) and I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced or had to deal with any of the issues I want to mention. I shouldn't have to say this but I know that in the nature of online discussion I have to state that I have the height of respect for the work SNAs do and the difficulty of their job.

I would probably describe myself as a fairly clear-cut teacher in terms of how I run my classroom. There are clear rules on punctuality to class, if we are supposed to be working quietly that is what is expected etc.

This year I have frequently had SNAs:

1) coming into class 5-10 mins after the start of the lesson or coming and going as they please with no explanation
2) speaking to their student as I am trying to explain something to the class having asked for quietness which I am very strict on
3) in isolated cases appearing to have developed not inappropriate but friendly relationships with students so that if I am dealing with a behaviour issue I will see the SNAs either speaking to students near them or appearing amused as opposed to fully acting as another adult in the room.

We have our fair share of challenging students who will be quick to highlight an inconsistency or to be distracted by someone coming in late etc.

I have never discussed these issues with the SNAs as I find it very difficult to address what is effectively a shortcoming with regard to my classroom rules with an adult colleague. I am wondering if my experience is isolated, what others feel and if I should consider addressing matters at the start of the next school year.

RealJohn

Definitely happens alright. Most of ours are guilty of coming to class after it's started anyway. Mostly, if they're talking while their students should be listening, it is because the student(s) isn't paying attention, with a view to getting them to pay attention.

The one thing ours do, far too often, is mess around on their phones. I make a point of never using my phone in class, other than on rare occasions, to show a student something related to the work, or school, but never for personal reasons. It's hard to expect the students to agree to a rule when they see the SNAs (and other teachers, in fairness) breaking the same rule.
See also: gum, chewing.

bobbyss

linguist wrote:

I have never discussed these issues with the SNAs as I find it very difficult to address what is effectively a shortcoming with regard to my classroom rules with an adult colleague. I am wondering if my experience is isolated, what others feel and if I should consider addressing matters at the start of the next school year.

I agree with you about how difficult a job SNAs have. There are some who grate however. As, might I quickly add do many a teacher. 'Things that teachers do that pi1s you off' would be interesting.

But your story rings very familiar. Having issues with colleagues whether SNAs or teachers is draining. You feel conflicted. On mobiles. Chatting to students when trying to explain something. Having mini arguments with a student in the middle of it all. One in particular has huge problems with spelling and often I hear a student ask for a spelling only to be given it incorrectly. Or telling a student the questions are easy because 'you done it yesterday ' or ' you should have wrote x not y'. What to do when you hear that? Very frustrating. You feel as if you are fighting a losing battle. Teachers also using poor grammar not just SNAs is just as depressing.

Do any other staff have similiar experiences with the SNAs ? If yes then that's an opportunity to be seized. If not, then regardless you need to have a meeting.
Would you be aware of your SNAs attending PD courses? I get the feeling there are not that many. And just as a matter of interest do you ever have temporary/sub SNAs and where do you get them from?

shopper2011

Them SNAs dont sound too bad. They often have to switch between students hence be a little late. SNAs see a different side to the student than you and have to have a different relationship to the students than you do. This is how they gain students trust and SNAs are supposed to work closely with students. You must be more tolerant and work with the SNA avoiding tension as your both proffesionals. The thinking that the Teacher is the Master and commands quietness, could be leading to anxiety, or be very difficult for ADHD students.

On a second note, Teaching is very stressfull. IMO this is the time of year, near the end, when small things that have been bothering people all year, surface with days to go. Try to see out the year end and enjoy the break from teenagers.

emilymemily

It happens, generally these things are brought up at staff meetings were no one is singled out but rather the issue is addressed to staff as a whole.

CraftySue

SNA's often have different break times, or maybe working amount a few students so this might be why they are late. If they are helping a student with spelling etc, maybe talk to SEN coordinator, it might be an idea that SNA sits away from students, and only steps in when needed to allow student work more independently - this could be one of the students targets.

linguist

Sincere thanks for your replies. It's interesting to see that I'm not the only one who has had a few issues. I would always wish to be very delicate in how I would address any matter such as this.

Just to deal with shopper2011's point which I know is made in a very constructive manner. I think we have to be mindful about what life is like in the mainstream context for the average student. Resources are never sufficient. Children are sitting in classes of 30 alongside classmates who present with a range of needs. We need to acknowledge the needs of the child who does not qualify for any SEN provision but needs a classroom environment that is conducive to learning. Quietness and structure are part of that and there has to be a balance struck between providing for SEN and providing for the rest of the children. So yes, what I expect is what I laid out in my original post: structure, punctuality and quietness when that is necessary.

I will see in the autumn whether I need to discuss specific issues but I absolutely will adopt a softly, softly approach and listen to the SNA's issues as well.

Wesser

shopper2011 wrote: »

Them SNAs dont sound too bad. They often have to switch between students hence be a little late. SNAs see a different side to the student than you and have to have a different relationship to the students than you do. This is how they gain students trust and SNAs are supposed to work closely with students. You must be more tolerant and work with the SNA avoiding tension as your both proffesionals. The thinking that the Teacher is the Master and commands quietness, could be leading to anxiety, or be very difficult for ADHD students.



On a second note, Teaching is very stressfull. IMO this is the time of year, near the end, when small things that have been bothering people all year, surface with days to go. Try to see out the year end and enjoy the break from teenagers.

Them SNAs. That has to be the worst grammer I have ever seen from a teacher.

juneg

Wesser wrote: »

Them SNAs. That has to be the worst grammer I have ever seen from a teacher.

Grammar love

Terri26

Wesser wrote:

Them SNAs. That has to be the worst grammer I have ever seen from a teacher.

Seriously?

evolving_doors

Terri26 wrote: »

Seriously?

Not much of a spelling and grammar pedant if he misses the lack of apostrophe .

He must be führer-ous that he did Nazi that one.

Terri26

evolving_doors wrote:

He must be führer-ous that he did Nazi that one.

Literal lol! Well played!

balbriggan123

Terri26 wrote: »

Literal lol! Well played!

Course name =classroom assistant /special needs assistant at kilester college
QQI Level 5 Award in Community Health Services 5M4468

I hope to avoid doing this course if I can complete an online course that bridges the gap between the qqi level 5 components I already hold from previous courses.

Can any confirm if from their experience this will be possible?


Name of qqi/fetac level 5 courses already completed:

Healthcare support worked at Whitehall College 2012 or 2011(passed 2 modules I think)
Physcology and counselling at plunket college 2013 or 2014(passed 3 modules I think)
City and guilds diploma in health and social care 2019(equivalent to qq level 5)passed everything through care path online training.

I have worked in nursing homes +homecare for 6 years.

Working as a Sna is lifelong passion and I would like to get a job as an sna this September 2019 rather than do a year long full time course which delays me beginning work especially since I already hold qqi level 5awards in almost all the sna course aubjects.

See screenshot of kilester sna course modules.
3 of these modules I do not have:
1. Intellectual disability studies
2. Creative arts for early childhood
3 understanding special needs

Athdara

balbriggan123 wrote: »

Course name =classroom assistant /special needs assistant at kilester college
QQI Level 5 Award in Community Health Services 5M4468

I hope to avoid doing this course if I can complete an online course that bridges the gap between the qqi level 5 components I already hold from previous courses.


Can any confirm if from their experience this will be possible?


Name of qqi/fetac level 5 courses already completed:

Healthcare support worked at Whitehall College 2012 or 2011(passed 2 modules I think)
Physcology and counselling at plunket college 2013 or 2014(passed 3 modules I think)
City and guilds diploma in health and social care 2019(equivalent to qq level 5)passed everything through care path online training.

I have worked in nursing homes +homecare for 6 years.

Working as a Sna is lifelong passion and I would like to get a job as an sna this September 2019 rather than do a year long full time course which delays me beginning work especially since I already hold qqi level 5awards in almost all the sna course aubjects.

See screenshot of kilester sna course modules.
3 of these modules I do not have:
1. Intellectual disability studies
2. Creative arts for early childhood
3 understanding special needs

Basic requirement asked for in an advert is Level 5 SNA Course, most schools now require Level 6. It would be upto a school if they wish to employ you with what you have. They may like the qualifications you have.

You also state you wish to start working in September 2019- most allocations have been advertised & possibly filled at this stage. They are not easy jobs to get as there are so many course all over the country churning out SNAs. SNA positions are not too plentiful. Although the government may announce 300 extra SNA jobs this year there could be 200 SNAs losing theirs with children losing their hours, moving on into secondary schools etc.

deiseindublin

Not all 2010 and 2011 modules can be used on a new award, there's a 4 year rule for using modules if they don't have new code such as 5N1234 etc.