2019 Women's World Cup

is_that_so

Corholio wrote: »

The Cameroon thing was pretty much criticised across the board from what I saw. It was petulant, unprofessional behaviour definitely. I definitely think there is an element who do over criticise things in the womens games though because there is an element who don't like it at all, I mean that's pretty blatant across all social media etc. This can not be compared to the mens game in that regard because there isn't anything 'better' above that to compare it to.

I'm not saying all criticism of the womens game falls into that category of course, been a lot of well analysed stuff too. But there has absolutely been some gatekeeping criticism too behind a facade of 'analysis'. I'd be very surprised if people would say this doesn't go on.

I actually think there was a bit too much "busybody" commentary on Cameroon. Sure they were unprofessional but that was ultimately a FIFA matter to deal with. As someone, who is not a fan of women's football, there are some things people will never take to. He wishes it well but not his thing at all.

Leroy42

is_that_so wrote: »

I actually think there was a bit too much "busybody" commentary on Cameroon. Sure they were unprofessional but that was ultimately a FIFA matter to deal with. As someone, who is not a fan of women's football, there are some things people will never take to. He wishes it well but not his thing at all.

Not your thing? What is the main difference between the games that makes it not your thing?

Same rules, same pitches, same footballs. Same in terms of some good players and some not so good.

is_that_so

Leroy42 wrote: »

Not your thing? What is the main difference between the games that makes it not your thing?

Same rules, same pitches, same footballs. Same in terms of some good players and some not so good.

You should read my post more carefully! I love it. I've watched every match I could!

764dak

osarusan wrote: »

It has come on massively in the last 20 years or so.

I suppose it should come as no surprise really, that when there is enough money in the game for players to become full time, and receive full time and high quality coaching, the game will improve.

The fitness, the structure, the way they move the ball, is all so much improved.

Not across the board of course. Plenty of amateur players at this world cup. There is a huge gap between where the US players are, and many other teams.

NYT had a good piece where they interviewed 108 players appearing in this World Cup, on their life, on the money side of it... very interesting, but fairly grim for most of them. 8 of the interviewees were from Thailand and the highest earner among them reported about US$6,000 a year from football. The lowest, a woman from Jamaica, reported $0.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/07/sports/soccer/world-cup-survey.html

Salary seems misleading sometimes.  College players are amateur.  Canada has 4 college players.  Even one US player only became a professional a few months ago.

MrKingsley

764dak wrote: »

Salary seems misleading sometimes.  College players are amateur.  Canada has 4 college players.  Even one US player only became a professional a few months ago.

True but the college football system in America is nuts. Strength and conditioning and tactical sessions in the mornings before class and then another training session in the afternoon. They would train more than any of the WSL teams here and possibly as much as the English WSL

SharpshooterTom

Alex Morgan has been coming in for a bit of stick for her celebration.



I know a lot of Irish people will lap this up but I thought it was little classless personally, don't see it as much different from Gazza's flute celebration.

Omackeral

That was two days ago and was already explained.

SharpshooterTom

Omackeral wrote: »

That was two days ago and was already explained.

Sorry I haven't been on here for a while. Just been shown ad nauseum all over as meme's on social media following the July 4th celebrations. Sometimes I wonder if there is an Anti British vibe in the US at times. Justin Rose got some xenophobic chants and abuse at the US Open at Pebble Beach earlier this year. I'm sure I'm overthinking it, but you do wonder.

c.p.w.g.w

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Alex Morgan has been coming in for a bit of stick for her celebration.



I know a lot of Irish people will lap this up but I thought it was little classless personally, don't see it as much different from Gazza's flute celebration.

I thought she was smoking a joint

is_that_so

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Sorry I haven't been on here for a while. Just been shown ad nauseum all over as meme's on social media following the July 4th celebrations. Sometimes I wonder if there is an Anti British vibe in the US at times. Justin Rose got some xenophobic chants and abuse at the US Open at Pebble Beach earlier this year. I'm sure I'm overthinking it, but you do wonder.

There's a Twitter video of her getting on a bus and she does the same thing with the pinkie and a real cup of tea. Just a footballer thinking they are doing something "clever".

The Good Ole Boys

https://www.wired.com/story/depth-of-field-womens-world-cup-tea/

They’re simply women who have earned the right to publicly rejoice in their achievements. It’s laughable, really, when you think about it. The wonder of women in celebration is so rare a sight the very presence of it stokes outrage. That is the world we inhabit. One that asks women to not revel in their success but to still do the work. How far yet we have to go.

gimli2112

I think the only issue with the celebrations was over the US doing cartwheels after going 7, 8, 9.... up. the tea thing is fine. It's just the DM readers in an uproar over the 1776 rebellion

rob316

Ya ill admit to never watching women's football and I was surprised at the standard and technique. Maybe if its just from watching my wife trying to run I think that's normal :pac:

Its not just football though, the women seem to be the star attraction in pro wrestling now. When I watched it they were there for bikini and underwear comps famous for flashing their tits and arse. Now they are headlining the main shows and actually have technical ability to show.

Doesn't make you sexist, I was just oblivious to it all.

Looking forward to the final, the USA vs England game the other night was brilliant and everyone was talking about it after in work, whatsapp, twitter, facebook etc.

rob316

People offended over a ****ing celebration is just sad. I'd like to see more of that, adds to an increasingly sterile game.

Leroy42

There are so many positives to this world cup. The players are less cynical, there is less sh1thousing, a noticeable lack of diving. Apart from Cameroon, very little agressiveness against the officials. And crowds, the crowds are no trouble, family friendly atmosphere. Remember the last time a England team were in France for a world cup?

There is no doubt that there is a gap in the skill levels between the mens and womens game. There is a massive gap between the top teams (USA etc) and the lower teams (Ireland etc) in terms of training, money, professionalism.

But in terms of excitement, effort, tension etc this world cup has been great.

ThunbergsAreGo

Leroy42 wrote: »

There are so many positives to this world cup. The players are less cynical, there is less sh1thousing, a noticeable lack of diving. Apart from Cameroon, very little agressiveness against the officials. And crowds, the crowds are no trouble, family friendly atmosphere. Remember the last time a England team were in France for a world cup?

There is no doubt that there is a gap in the skill levels between the mens and womens game. There is a massive gap between the top teams (USA etc) and the lower teams (Ireland etc) in terms of training, money, professionalism.

But in terms of excitement, effort, tension etc this world cup has been great.

To be fair its a long time since I have seen the levels of aggression towards officials that the Cameroon team showed regardless of age or gender!

Its all a little chicken and egg with the positives, its not better or worse just different. To give an example, given the reduced speed a dive would be way way more obvious (and there have been dives at the world cup) - we have also seen more "debating with officials" come in as the games have got tighter (see England in the last few minutes).

You are right with the family friendly atmosphere and as seen with Rugby in this country, its a great way to market the womans game as something with a high skill level but way more accessible than the mens game.

kksaints

Leroy42 wrote: »

There are so many positives to this world cup. The players are less cynical, there is less sh1thousing, a noticeable lack of diving. Apart from Cameroon, very little agressiveness against the officials. And crowds, the crowds are no trouble, family friendly atmosphere. Remember the last time a England team were in France for a world cup?

There is no doubt that there is a gap in the skill levels between the mens and womens game. There is a massive gap between the top teams (USA etc) and the lower teams (Ireland etc) in terms of training, money, professionalism.

But in terms of excitement, effort, tension etc this world cup has been great.

Actually one thing I've noticed has been the increase in cynicism, diving, appealing for cards (The Americans did this a lot on Tuesday) in this World Cup. Its fairly clear that as the stakes get higher and higher the level of cynicism and cheating increases.

Also while its only one isolated incident there was reports of crowd trouble at the Cameroon vs England but not between fans.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jun/24/england-fans-cameroon-world-cup-escorted-stadium-tensions

Dr. Bre

Don’t be fooled . The women know all about the dark arts of the game as much as the men

is_that_so

kksaints wrote: »

Actually one thing I've noticed has been the increase in cynicism, diving, appealing for cards (The Americans did this a lot on Tuesday) in this World Cup. Its fairly clear that as the stakes get higher and higher the level of cynicism and cheating increases.

Also while its only one isolated incident there was reports of crowd trouble at the Cameroon vs England but not between fans.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jun/24/england-fans-cameroon-world-cup-escorted-stadium-tensions

Yeah an issue that is much more noticeable this time out, VAR is probably part of it. That soft foul is certainly more prevalent as is collapsing from the merest of touches. I'd single out the US for quite a bit of this gamesmanship especially for mouthing off, which they have done consistently in the latter stages. Then again if it's going to cast any doubt in the referee's mind why not exploit it.

SharpshooterTom

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

I thought she was smoking a joint

She'll have that one prepared for the Dutch.

eagle eye

is_that_so wrote:

There's a Twitter video of her getting on a bus and she does the same thing with the pinkie and a real cup of tea. Just a footballer thinking they are doing something "clever".

And forgetting about how many dumbos there are on social media.

MrKingsley

Whilst I have no issue with the celebration she has now come out with the “double standards” line about men’s and women’s football.

Says she sees men “grabbing their sacks” all over the world when celebrating. Hmmmm

Why not just defend the celebration itself

SharpshooterTom

Well I'm born and raised in England, although I'm not an England fan, I didn't like the incredibly annoying stereotype Americans have of Brits all being 'tea drinkers'.

I'm not raging over it or anything, but I wouldn't be a fan people doing stereotypes of nationalities while scoring. Paul Gascoigne's flute celebration against Celtic? Its just childish.

I would call out men and women equally in regards to this.

How Soon Is Now

It was nothing but a stupid celebration the yanks trying to get a low blow in on the English with some stupid stereotype.

The more people talking about these things more press the women's game gets and god they need all the attention and help they can get!

is_that_so

MrKingsley wrote: »

Whilst I have no issue with the celebration she has now come out with the “double standards” line about men’s and women’s football.

Says she sees men “grabbing their sacks” all over the world when celebrating. Hmmmm

Why not just defend the celebration itself

There has been a bit of that irritability and thin skin about them since people muttered about their "over-exuberant" celebrations against Thailand. Laughing things off is often the best approach, especially when you pick a pretty odd celebration. Ellen White one is just as daft but she was happy to explain it.

eagle eye

MrKingsley wrote:

Why not just defend the celebration itself

Because it's ridiculous that she is being hounded about it and there are double standards.

is_that_so

eagle eye wrote: »

Because it's ridiculous that she is being hounded about it and there are double standards.

Some people felt it was borderline offensive. Most male celebrations are just plain stupid so not sure what double standards we're talking about.

SharpshooterTom

is_that_so wrote: »

Some people felt it was borderline offensive. Most male celebrations are just plain stupid so not sure what double standards we're talking about.

Yeah well its borderline xenophobia, I didn't really care about Thailand celebrations, footballers always seem to hold up fingers when they score hatricks etc.

Morzadec

Not sure it's double standards to be fair.

If a man or a woman scored against Ireland and did a "Riverdance" celebration, we'd probably be all pretty riled up and think it was disrespectful.

I'm not English, and we all have the old animosity against the English in sport, so thought it was kinda funny. But I could see why English people would be annoyed and say that was disrespectful.

Scoring against Spain and mimicking a bullfight would be another comparable example I could think of. It's kinda taking a really stereotypical thing about that country that you don't own and mocking it. I'm trying to imagine what the reaction would be if Harry Kane did that. Would we laugh? I think we'd call him an eejit tbh.

May not have been her intention to be fair, so benefit of the doubt, but I know a former teammate of hers who was English said she thought it was disrespectful and I can see why she's getting criticism.

I can't think of a comparable incident in the men's game (like if a man ever did something similar, mocking another country's culture?) so hard to prove if it's double standards, but I do think men get called out if they are disrespectful, I'm not sure this is any special treatment here. Happy to hear the argument for why it might be however - this is my initial take on it.

SharpshooterTom

Gazza claims he got a IRA death threat following that celebration. :eek:

Omackeral

Morzadec wrote: »

If a man or a woman scored against Ireland and did a "Riverdance" celebration, we'd probably be all pretty riled up and think it was disrespectful.

I'd almost certainly laugh.

eagle eye

Omackeral wrote:

I'd almost certainly laugh.

I would too and admire the person for being cocky and entertaining.

The Good Ole Boys

eagle eye wrote: »

I would too and admire the person for being cocky and entertaining.

if someone was disrespectful against the pats like that you would burst many blood vessel

Mars Bar

https://twitter.com/FAIreland/status/1147178768123011072?s=19

kksaints

Mars Bar wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FAIreland/status/1147178768123011072?s=19

That's fantastic for her and well deserved. Always remember her for making an excellent decision for a spectacular Forrester goal against Bray in 2014. She's an excellent official.

Corholio

If the celebration was a dig at the English, then it is disrespectful imo. If it was for any other reason then it's fine, I guess only she knows, whatever about what she said about it after. Trying to think of celebrations in the mens game that was a direct dig at the opposition. Suarez diving in front of Moyes perhaps? I'm sure there's more of course. In any sport it's just a bit disrespectful to do, especially when there was time for it to backfire. Comparisons to men grabbing their 'sacks' was a strange response as that isn't a dig at anyone. Disrespecting the opposition in celebration isn't a great look in any sport unless it's a genuine response to something. It's not hard to retain an ounce of sportsmanship really.

As I said, only she knows.

Blinky Plebum

Her point about grabbing their sacks was a bit stupid as that type of celebration almost never happens apart from Simeone last year (and he apologized for that) , it's certainly not a common celebration by any means yet she was acting like it happened regularly.

Agent Coulson

Pure sh1thousry from the women that the men's game would be proud of.

764dak

Early on in the thread people said that 24 teams were too many.  The Netherlands would've failed to qualify with only 16 teams.

bucketybuck

764dak wrote: »

Early on in the thread people said that 24 teams were too many.  The Netherlands would've failed to qualify with only 16 teams.

So what?

~Rebel~

10 mins in and Sweden already 1-0 up. Poor defending from England, knocking the ball back into a dangerous area on the edge of the box, and straight to Asllani to finish.

Harry Palmr

Should be 2-0 pityful from England, playing out of the back without the abilities to match the ambition.

~Rebel~

Cracker of a second, Jakobsson this time. Brilliant goal from my favourite player of the tournament. She pops up all over the place in the final third. Causes so many problems, pulls teams around, and creates a lot for herself at the same time.

Sweden much the better team so far.

is_that_so

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Should be 2-0 pityful from England, playing out of the back without the abilities to match the ambition.

2-0 now. Can't see England getting anything out of this the way they are playing.

Harry Palmr

Could be a cricket score if they want to really push the advantage home.

caviardreams

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Cracker of a second, Jakobsson this time. Brilliant goal from my favourite player of the tournament. She pops up all over the place in the final third. Causes so many problems, pulls teams around, and creates a lot for herself at the same time.

Sweden much the better team so far.

That was a beauty of a finish. I have really liked the Swedes tbh - my second faves after Italy

Some good last ditch defending there from them too!

Harry Palmr

Good England goal, still in this.

caviardreams

Oh that was equally lovely from Kirby. Game on!

Mars Bar

Lovely goal

~Rebel~

Holy shit, what a swift comeback!