Can a shop decide not to served alcohol even with proper ID

glenfieldman

My daughter (24) went to purchase a bottle of wine in a supermarket with the correct ID
She was with her younger sister (17) and the person on the check out refused to serve her.
She was told that it was because she was with a minor, and she asked if it was her mother and sister would it be the same, and the assistant said that’s a different matter.
I’m just wondering if this is common practice or lawful ?

Glass fused light

It's lawful the shop is under no obligation to sell anything to anyone, (except where it's covered under anti-discrimination legistation).
The sale of alcohol is specifically excluded from age discrimination so shops can have a policy where they don't sell to adults in the company of minors or where they suspect that the adult is buying on behalf of the minor.

It's common pratice in shops and off licence as it can impact their licence, and is bad PR if charged/fined in court.

L1011

Lawful, yes.

Extremely stupid and arbitrary in what they decide, yes. They will always serve a mother and younger child for instance.

Take my business elsewhere is what I've done when this has happened.

Odyssey 2005

I've seen aldi doing this in the past,although not in the last 2 years or so. Two ppl,one obviously under age and the other with valid I'd. He was refused and the reason was that he had a minor in his company and it was co policy

Xterminator

lawful yes, common practise yes.

Basically they don't serve alcohol if in doubt.

Inconvenient for the honest customer but the policy probably could save a life - so its hard to be overly critical.

Del2005

L1011 wrote: »

Lawful, yes.

Extremely stupid and arbitrary in what they decide, yes. They will always serve a mother and younger child for instance.

Take my business elsewhere is what I've done when this has happened.

Too many sting operations for a shop to risk loosing their liquor licence.

Aren't parents allowed to give alcohol to minors?

Odyssey 2005

Del2005 wrote: »

Too many sting operations for a shop to risk loosing their liquor licence.

Aren't parents allowed to give alcohol to minors?

Pub I frequent, in a VERY VERY touristy area. An inspector sent in a 16 yo girl,she would have passed for 22/3 to but smokes,got a token for the machine from the barman bought the smoked then boom. Fine and a severe reprimand.

L1011

Del2005 wrote: »

Too many sting operations for a shop to risk loosing their liquor licence.

Aren't parents allowed to give alcohol to minors?

I'm almost certain a sting operation involving an actual adult making the purchase and handing it over wouldn't have any standing at all. The specific law is about enabling a <18 year old to make the test purchase. And I'm also unsure if there is even any responsibly on the retailer if they have verified that the direct purchaser is >18 and do not have knowledge that it is being given to a <18.

The crime in that case is committed by the adult who handed it over (unless a parent/in loco parentis). Know someone who was sacked as a barman for doing it for some kids who asked outside a shop, idiot.

Basically all I can find is that the RRAI Code suggests to retailers to do this; and Scotland has laws around it that some retailers with UK HQs follow as policy everywhere. Most multiples have signed up to the RRAI Code

amcalester

L1011 wrote: »

I'm almost certain a sting operation involving an actual adult making the purchase and handing it over wouldn't have any standing at all. The specific law is about enabling a <18 year old to make the test purchase. And I'm also unsure if there is even any responsibly on the retailer if they have verified that the direct purchaser is >18 and do not have knowledge that it is being given to a <18.

The crime in that case is committed by the adult who handed it over (unless a parent/in loco parentis). Know someone who was sacked as a barman for doing it for some kids who asked outside a shop, idiot.

Basically all I can find is that the RRAI Code suggests to retailers to do this; and Scotland has laws around it that some retailers with UK HQs follow as policy everywhere. Most multiples have signed up to the RRAI Code

I thought it was an offense to knowingly sell alcohol that is being bought for a minor.

L1011

amcalester wrote: »

I thought it was an offense to knowingly sell alcohol that is being bought for a minor.

It would be next to impossible to prove "knowingly", though.

Glass fused light

[HTML][/HTML]

amcalester wrote: »

I thought it was an offense to knowingly sell alcohol that is being bought for a minor.

Intoxicating Liquor Act 1988

31.—(1) The holder of any licence shall not—

(a) sell or deliver or permit any person to sell or deliver intoxicating liquor to a person under the age of 18 years,

(b) sell or deliver or permit any person to sell or deliver intoxicating liquor to any person for consumption on his licensed premises by a person under the age of 18 years,

(c) permit a person under the age of 18 years to consume intoxicating liquor on his licensed premises, or

(d) permit any person to supply a person under the age of 18 years with intoxicating liquor on his licensed premises.

(2) The holder of a licence of any licensed premises shall not sell or deliver or permit any person to sell or deliver intoxicating liquor to any person for consumption off his licensed premises by a person under the age of 18 years in any place other than a private residence.

(3) A person who contravenes subsection (1) or (2) of this section shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding—

(a) £300, in the case of a first offence, or

(b) £500, in the case of a second or any subsequent offence,

and the offence shall be deemed for the purposes of Part III (which relates to the endorsement of licences) of the Act of 1927 to be an offence to which that Part of that Act applies.

(4) In any proceedings against a person for a contravention of subsection (1) or (2) of this section, it shall be a defence for such person to prove that the person in respect of whom the charge is brought produced to him an age card relating to such person or that he had other reasonable grounds for believing that such person was over the age of 18 years, or, if the person is charged with permitting another person to sell or deliver intoxicating liquor contrary to the said subsection (1) or (2), to prove that an age card was produced by the person concerned to that other person or that that other person had other reasonable grounds for believing as aforesaid.

32.—(1) A person shall not—

(a) purchase intoxicating liquor for delivery to, or consumption by, a person under the age of 18 years in any place other than a private residence,

(b) deliver intoxicating liquor to a person under the age of 18 years in any place other than a private residence, or

(c) send a person under the age of 18 years to any place where intoxicating liquor is sold, delivered or distributed for the purpose of obtaining intoxicating liquor.

(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding—

(a) £300, in the case of a first offence, or

(b) £500, in the case of a second or any subsequent offence.
[/qoute]

dubrov

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Pub I frequent, in a VERY VERY touristy area. An inspector sent in a 16 yo girl,she would have passed for 22/3 to but smokes,got a token for the machine from the barman bought the smoked then boom. Fine and a severe reprimand.

I'd imagine this sort of sting would be dubious to stand up in court.

What is the point of it anyway - to get publicans to ID everyone just in case?

L1011

dubrov wrote: »

I'd imagine this sort of sting would be dubious to stand up in court.

What is the point of it anyway - to get publicans to ID everyone just in case?

They're a standard occurrence and done quite frequently. Suspect finding the 16/17 year olds willing to do it is probably the bigger problem!

Glass fused light

dubrov wrote: »

I'd imagine this sort of sting would be dubious to stand up in court.

What is the point of it anyway - to get publicans to ID everyone just in case?

There was a problem in that the minor could not legally act as an agent but I believe that the legistation was amended to allow for test purchases.

The Idea was to get the seller to ID but the older legistation only allowed for the "Age card" as a only form of ID so checking a driving licence or passport did not protect the seller. I believe that this has also been amended.

L1011

Age card is the only defence against a claim of selling underage; but you can accept whatever you want basically once you're willing to take the risk its real. Which is why the list is quite limited most places.

The age card used to not be issued over 25. My partner was getting IDed frequently at 31 - they amended that rule too.

Odyssey 2005

dubrov wrote: »

I'd imagine this sort of sting would be dubious to stand up in court.

What is the point of it anyway - to get publicans to ID everyone just in case?

Honestly dont know. Fairly underhanded practice though.

SusieBlue

I'm 27 and couldn't get served in Tesco a few months ago due to not having "suitable" identification.
I had an old college ID and my work ID which both had picture/DOB, as well as several other bank cards etc. but apparently if you look under 25 you have to produce passport or age card.
I said I understood the sentiment, but as I could prove I'm not in fact under 25, that shouldn't apply to me? And the work ID etc should be enough to verify my age?
Nope, you look under 25 so only a passport or age card will be accepted.

For reference this was a week day before lunch time, I was wearing office attire and a lanyard and had dropped in to buy a bottle of wine as a departing gift for a colleague.

It was highly inconvenient and despite complaining afterwards, I got nowhere. I see why there's a need for stringent rules but under no circumstances do I look under the age of 18. Its just plain annoying.

Glass fused light

As a big retailer, they would prefer to loose a customer rather than face the bad PR of selling to a minor. HO sets the standard and the cashier / employees could be fired. So the whole staff will follow policy.

Del2005

SusieBlue wrote: »

I'm 27 and couldn't get served in Tesco a few months ago due to not having "suitable" identification.
I had an old college ID and my work ID which both had picture/DOB, as well as several other bank cards etc. but apparently if you look under 25 you have to produce passport or age card.
I said I understood the sentiment, but as I could prove I'm not in fact under 25, that shouldn't apply to me? And the work ID etc should be enough to verify my age?
Nope, you look under 25 so only a passport or age card will be accepted.

For reference this was a week day before lunch time, I was wearing office attire and a lanyard and had dropped in to buy a bottle of wine as a departing gift for a colleague.

It was highly inconvenient and despite complaining afterwards, I got nowhere. I see why there's a need for stringent rules but under no circumstances do I look under the age of 18. Its just plain annoying.

The only defence a shop has it that they checked an age card, IIRC a passport isn't a valid ID for a shops defence even though you need a passport to get the age card. So if you don't have the correct ID then they won't serve you as it's not worth the risk.

Most shops have operate a policy that if you look under 25 you need to produce ID. I'd take it as a compliment if I got ID'd.

Stephen15

Are pubs under different laws than shops when it comes to asking for ID? I'm 20 and most of the time when buying drink in an off licence I'm asked for ID but it rarely happens when I'm in a pub.

Glass fused light

Stephen15 wrote: »

Are pubs under different laws than shops when it comes to asking for ID? I'm 20 and most of the time when buying drink in an off licence I'm asked for ID but it rarely happens when I'm in a pub.

No the ID legistation would cover both.
If your drinking local the staff would have a good idea of the usual customers, and either way the ID check should be done at the door.

But could just be that you're now hanging out in the pubs frequented by the more "established" members of the pub going community:D.

splinter65

I don’t understand why any customer would makes fuss in the shop right there and then. It’s not as if the shop assistant or the manager is going to change their mind just because you’re in a strop.
Just smile and say “thanks anyway” and leave and go somewhere else.
If you think it was handled badly then write to customer service.
1st world problems.