New environmental era of farming. Are you playing your part?

Water John

Well the stocking rate isn't high anyway, might be a clue.

Say my name

Water John wrote: »

Well the stocking rate isn't high anyway, might be a clue.

Bio implies biological though. Not your usual farming system.
You could say alien to this country.
*including organic producers here.

RIGOLO

Say my name wrote: »

You say bio farm.

I hope that's not a typo. Had they any different practices (than say an irish farm) that allow themselves class themselves as a bio farm.
Other than feral children running around the place. :pac:

not a typo ..
Its a farm .They call it a bio farm .
What sells nowadays and gets the punters in the door is to stick BIO or Green in front of everything and suddenly instead of it being a cow .. its a bio cow.. so they can charge 50% more for the milk cos its bio-cow bio-milk.. you get the picture etc etc

They do have a gas inverter (?) methane collection and processing system for the slurry , but other than that I didnt see anything different than a normal farm.
They still had cows in the slatted sheds, being fed silage, in June , maybe thats just so the punters can get close to the bio-cow on Sunday... the rest of the week the cow goes back to being a normal cow.

It was a normal farm operation, but a fairly large farm, threw up a sign, opened the gates, let everyone muck around there (feral kids and all) put a market in the courtyard, and didnt seem to have spent vast amounts of money making it child friendly (and safe for FG TDs who might jump on a swing) , and it was a very enjoyable experience. Plenty monoculture crops in the fields, no sign of weeds in the drills so you tell me how they do that on 200ha ... and can claim bio.

Gawddawggonnit

BIO = ORGANIC.

Direct translation from French to English.
(Rigolo mustn’t do the weekly shop).

Friend of mine has 600ha of cereals in organic production with 19yrs.
Another friend is in the process of changing to organic with 824ha of cereals...because you’re organic doesn’t necessarily mean the crops have to be infested with weeds. The hoe is invented with quite a while now...

The Gov have informed me today that I’ll be setting 27.77ha into permanent, never again to be cultivated, pasture. Minimum of 7 different species of grasses, clovers and wildflowers (specific to the area) and herbs. It can be mob grazed or hay taken from August or just kept ‘tidy’.
Funny how they’ll not be giving me a red cent for the privilege...

tractorporn

RIGOLO wrote: »

not a typo ..
Its a farm .They call it a bio farm .
What sells nowadays and gets the punters in the door is to stick BIO or Green in front of everything and suddenly instead of it being a cow .. its a bio cow.. so they can charge 50% more for the milk cos its bio-cow bio-milk.. you get the picture etc etc

They do have a gas inverter (?) methane collection and processing system for the slurry , but other than that I didnt see anything different than a normal farm.
They still had cows in the slatted sheds, being fed silage, in June , maybe thats just so the punters can get close to the bio-cow on Sunday... the rest of the week the cow goes back to being a normal cow.

It was a normal farm operation, but a fairly large farm, threw up a sign, opened the gates, let everyone muck around there (feral kids and all) put a market in the courtyard, and didnt seem to have spent vast amounts of money making it child friendly (and safe for FG TDs who might jump on a swing) , and it was a very enjoyable experience. Plenty monoculture crops in the fields, no sign of weeds in the drills so you tell me how they do that on 200ha ... and can claim bio.

Bio in French or German means organic

RIGOLO

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

BIO = ORGANIC.

Direct translation from French to English.
(Rigolo mustn’t do the weekly shop).

Friend of mine has 600ha of cereals in organic production with 19yrs.
Another friend is in the process of changing to organic with 824ha of cereals...because you’re organic doesn’t necessarily mean the crops have to be infested with weeds. The hoe is invented with quite a while now...

The Gov have informed me today that I’ll be setting 27.77ha into permanent, never again to be cultivated, pasture. Minimum of 7 different species of grasses, clovers and wildflowers (specific to the area) and herbs. It can be mob grazed or hay taken from August or just kept ‘tidy’.
Funny how they’ll not be giving me a red cent for the privilege...

great next time your in Grignon let us know what you see in the sheds...
then you can tell me what Bio versus Organic really means ..

Id never met a gullible farmer , this is a first. (correction Ive met two now )
Ive a Christmas card that says Father Christmas ... does that mean he exists ..

tractorporn wrote: »

Bio in French or German means organic

Theres been a pretty much 100% agreement on this thread that farmers (and everyone in buisness for that matter ) is held to a much higher standard and implementation by our Health and Safety (civil servants, pen pushers) when it comes to EU standards than those in France and other countries.

Im just adding to that point , that based on many years observing day to day life in Ireland and France, the French small buinses, self employed and farmers Ive observed had far less investment to make in their businesses to be allowed work in their trade , than what I see in Ireland. Although the French businessman might have more paperwork to fill out, in terms of material costs Id say they have less.

If you believe a bio farmer in France is going thru the same level of hoops that an Organic farmer in Ireland is, feel free to tell us your examples.

btw I did do the weekly shop this morning, even in shorts and t-shirts it was fairly hot to be hauling those bags to the house.

Good luck to your mates with the Organic certification, and good luck to all the farmers going down an eco route.
I hope they gt back a return on their investment.
Judging by the wad of cash the French farmer had in his purse (and not a receipt to be seen in the whole day) from all the visitors to his farm Im 100% sure he is making it hand over fist on his investment . Why am I so sure.. well its obvious he barely made any to allow 500-1000 people walk all over his farm for a day.
Can you imagine the hoops the irish lad would have to go thru to get 100 people onto his farm..
looking forward to your response, Im off to get the last rays on the sun lounger in the garden ...

Danzy

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

The hoe is invented with quite a while now...

..

The oldest profession, they say.

Gawddawggonnit

RIGOLO wrote: »

great next time your in Grignon let us know what you see in the sheds...
then you can tell me what Bio versus Organic really means ..

Id never met a gullible farmer , this is a first. (correction Ive met two now )
Ive a Christmas card that says Father Christmas ... does that mean he exists ..


Theres been a pretty much 100% agreement on this thread that farmers (and everyone in buisness for that matter ) is held to a much higher standard and implementation by our Health and Safety (civil servants, pen pushers) when it comes to EU standards than those in France and other countries.

Im just adding to that point , that based on many years observing day to day life in Ireland and France, the French small buinses, self employed and farmers Ive observed had far less investment to make in their businesses to be allowed work in their trade , than what I see in Ireland. Although the French businessman might have more paperwork to fill out, in terms of material costs Id say they have less.

If you believe a bio farmer in France is going thru the same level of hoops that an Organic farmer in Ireland is, feel free to tell us your examples.

btw I did do the weekly shop this morning, even in shorts and t-shirts it was fairly hot to be hauling those bags to the house.

Good luck to your mates with the Organic certification, and good luck to all the farmers going down an eco route.
I hope they gt back a return on their investment.
Judging by the wad of cash the French farmer had in his purse (and not a receipt to be seen in the whole day) from all the visitors to his farm Im 100% sure he is making it hand over fist on his investment . Why am I so sure.. well its obvious he barely made any to allow 500-1000 people walk all over his farm for a day.
Can you imagine the hoops the irish lad would have to go thru to get 100 people onto his farm..
looking forward to your response, Im off to get the last rays on the sun lounger in the garden ...

Enjoy your sojourn Rigolo.

Having years of experience farming in both Ireland and France, I would think that regulation is much, much more severe in France.

I often visit shops in both Ireland and France and I wouldn’t consider myself capable of making realistic assumptions about the regulation or profitability of those enterprises...because I wouldn’t have a fcuking clue how they work!

If you read the last paragraph of my previous post, it would explain quite a lot to those that actually do farm a bit of land.

tractorporn

RIGOLO wrote: »

If you believe a bio farmer in France is going thru the same level of hoops that an Organic farmer in Ireland is, feel free to tell us your examples.

Hate to break it to you but the Irish certification bodies and the French ones are using the same set of rules. Only difference is French organic farmers can expect more inspections from the like of EcoCert than an Irish farmer would get from IOA.

Having been on the farmers group of IFOAM EU that's what my French colleagues tell me anyway.

RIGOLO

tractorporn wrote: »

Hate to break it to you but the Irish certification bodies and the French ones are using the same set of rules. Only difference is French organic farmers can expect more inspections from the like of EcoCert than an Irish farmer would get from IOA.

Having been on the farmers group of IFOAM EU that's what my French colleagues tell me anyway.

I think the point has gone not only over your head, but probably over your tractor also .

Everyones playing by the same set of rules .
We have little choice as we are stuck in the EU and all the rules are made in either Strasbourg or Brussels , depending what time of the month it is .

Check the posts, Ive said this clearly a few times, obviously not clearly enough for you.

The point Ive been making, , and the same point many other posters have alluded too, and Im going to put it in CAPS so even someone whos handle is 'tractorporn will maybe understand it , I hope, is basically that

IRELAND SIGNS UP TO EVERY EU RULE AND ENFORCES IT 100% WITH WIDESPREAD CIVIL SERVICE, PEN PUSHER , AG OFFICALS, HEALTH AND SAFETY CHECKUPS AND FINES AND EVERY SINGLE RULE IMPLEMENTED TO THE NTH DEGREE

FRANCE SIGNS UP TO EVERY EU RULE BUT DOES NOT SEEM TO HAVE THE SAME LEVEL OF ENFORCEMENT ACROSS SMALL TO MEDIUM BUSINESS AND FARMING . BASED ON LIVING HERE ON AND OFF FOR OVER A DECADE AND BASED ON OTHER POSTERS COMMENTS IN FRANCE THEY SEEM TO TURN A BLIND EYE TO ACTUALLY ENFORCING HALF THE RULES ALLOWING FOR COSTS TO BE SAVED, CORNERS TO BE CUT, A BIT OF COMMONSENSE APPLIED.

and here look Tractorporn might be a hard to combine and grasp two paragraphs and combine the ideas , so I ill put it in one sentence for you to make it as easy as possible ...

IN IRELAND WE SIGN UP TO AND AGGRESSIVELY ENFORCE ALL THE EU RULES, IN FRANCE THEY SIGN UP TO ALL EU RULES BUT ENFORCE ONLY A PORTION OF THEM.

let me know if you have trouble understanding that concept.
If not I can probably try to find smaller words to use that may help you .

Buford T. Justice XIX

RIGOLO wrote: »

I think the point has gone not only over your head, but probably over your tractor also .

Everyones playing by the same set of rules .
We have little choice as we are stuck in the EU and all the rules are made in either Strasbourg or Brussels , depending what time of the month it is .

Check the posts, Ive said this clearly a few times, obviously not clearly enough for you.

The point Ive been making, , and the same point many other posters have alluded too, and Im going to put it in CAPS so even someone whos handle is 'tractorporn will maybe understand it , I hope, is basically that

IRELAND SIGNS UP TO EVERY EU RULE AND ENFORCES IT 100% WITH WIDESPREAD CIVIL SERVICE, PEN PUSHER , AG OFFICALS, HEALTH AND SAFETY CHECKUPS AND FINES AND EVERY SINGLE RULE IMPLEMENTED TO THE NTH DEGREE

FRANCE SIGNS UP TO EVERY EU RULE BUT DOES NOT SEEM TO HAVE THE SAME LEVEL OF ENFORCEMENT ACROSS SMALL TO MEDIUM BUSINESS AND FARMING . BASED ON LIVING HERE ON AND OFF FOR OVER A DECADE AND BASED ON OTHER POSTERS COMMENTS IN FRANCE THEY SEEM TO TURN A BLIND EYE TO ACTUALLY ENFORCING HALF THE RULES ALLOWING FOR COSTS TO BE SAVED, CORNERS TO BE CUT, A BIT OF COMMONSENSE APPLIED.

and here look Tractorporn might be a hard to combine and grasp two paragraphs and combine the ideas , so I ill put it in one sentence for you to make it as easy as possible ...

IN IRELAND WE SIGN UP TO AND AGGRESSIVELY ENFORCE ALL THE EU RULES, IN FRANCE THEY SIGN UP TO ALL EU RULES BUT ENFORCE ONLY A PORTION OF THEM.

let me know if you have trouble understanding that concept.
If not I can probably try to find smaller words to use that may help you .

Mod note: This is a discussion site and on this forum we expect civil discourse . Posters are allowed to have different opinions and express them as long as they remain civil while doing so.

If you wish to remain posting here, I would strongly suggest dialling back on the attacks on other posters, it's not something we tolerate around here.

Buford T. Justice.

tractorporn

RIGOLO wrote: »

I think the point has gone not only over your head, but probably over your tractor also .

Everyones playing by the same set of rules .
We have little choice as we are stuck in the EU and all the rules are made in either Strasbourg or Brussels , depending what time of the month it is .

Check the posts, Ive said this clearly a few times, obviously not clearly enough for you.

The point Ive been making, , and the same point many other posters have alluded too, and Im going to put it in CAPS so even someone whos handle is 'tractorporn will maybe understand it , I hope, is basically that

IRELAND SIGNS UP TO EVERY EU RULE AND ENFORCES IT 100% WITH WIDESPREAD CIVIL SERVICE, PEN PUSHER , AG OFFICALS, HEALTH AND SAFETY CHECKUPS AND FINES AND EVERY SINGLE RULE IMPLEMENTED TO THE NTH DEGREE

FRANCE SIGNS UP TO EVERY EU RULE BUT DOES NOT SEEM TO HAVE THE SAME LEVEL OF ENFORCEMENT ACROSS SMALL TO MEDIUM BUSINESS AND FARMING . BASED ON LIVING HERE ON AND OFF FOR OVER A DECADE AND BASED ON OTHER POSTERS COMMENTS IN FRANCE THEY SEEM TO TURN A BLIND EYE TO ACTUALLY ENFORCING HALF THE RULES ALLOWING FOR COSTS TO BE SAVED, CORNERS TO BE CUT, A BIT OF COMMONSENSE APPLIED.

and here look Tractorporn might be a hard to combine and grasp two paragraphs and combine the ideas , so I ill put it in one sentence for you to make it as easy as possible ...

IN IRELAND WE SIGN UP TO AND AGGRESSIVELY ENFORCE ALL THE EU RULES, IN FRANCE THEY SIGN UP TO ALL EU RULES BUT ENFORCE ONLY A PORTION OF THEM.

let me know if you have trouble understanding that concept.
If not I can probably try to find smaller words to use that may help you .

No I understand your concept it's just that having worked alongside colleagues from Fibl on European projects I know the level of enforcement they implement.

Sir Guy who smiles

RIGOLO wrote: »

not a typo ..


It was a normal farm operation, but a fairly large farm, threw up a sign, opened the gates, let everyone muck around there (feral kids and all) put a market in the courtyard, and didnt seem to have spent vast amounts of money making it child friendly (and safe for FG TDs who might jump on a swing) , and it was a very enjoyable experience. Plenty monoculture crops in the fields, no sign of weeds in the drills so you tell me how they do that on 200ha ... and can claim bio.

Rigolo, I know some government people can be more zealous in pushing the rules than others, but you hint here in passing on a massive part of the problem in Ireland, the claim/court/insurance spiral into hell.

That would do a lot more to make me keep visitors off the farm than any health and safety or DAFM inspector.

Fail a health and safety inspection and your pet farm might be closed to visitors. Fall foul of a hefty claim and your farm could be gone.

_Brian

I've not done business in France but I definitely get the feeling looking around small business premises that they are not playing to the same rules we are..


Simple example..


Was in a small cafe in France few years ago and visited the bathrooms..
One toilet stall, but where the sink was there was a mens urinal on the wall beside the sink. When I went in there was a chap using the urinal and a woman beside him washing her hands... Theres no way in hell that would pass a co council inspection here, less than 500mm between the only bathroom sink and a urinal.

serfspup

Sir Guy who smiles wrote: »

Rigolo, I know some government people can be more zealous in pushing the rules than others, but you hint here in passing on a massive part of the problem in Ireland, the claim/court/insurance spiral into hell.

That would do a lot more to make me keep visitors off the farm than any health and safety or DAFM inspector.

Fail a health and safety inspection and your pet farm might be closed to visitors. Fall foul of a hefty claim and your farm could be gone.

the industry of regulation verses the regulation of industry

Ubbquittious