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How is a man supposed to find a woman in the 21st century
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Deleted User wrote: »Well in my experience you're completely wrong. A couple of mates always dressed well, fancy smelly stuff etc. and got nowhere for years. Started being arseholes and they pulled more often than not.
Alas since this is anecdote that I can not verify as true in any way - we are at the "I will take your word for it" kind of impasse which actually means I am not taking your word for it
For me there seems to be nothing in the material of PUA that is evidenced in any way other than anecdote I hear and can never verify. However my own anecdotal experience is the only reason acting like a dick improved their chances is that what they were doing _before_ there was simply significantly worse or creepier.
_If_ there is more to it than that it is hard to imagine what. Except possibly the power of placebo. If you feel empowered by a set of "skills" or "moves" you believe will get you laid that can have a placebo effect on your confidence and the like. Which sure - will help. I am happy to concede that for sure.
Some time ago I worked on a guys "game" and I did it reluctantly. And the whole time I was working on him I was very conscious of not crossing a line into stuff like "PUA". I defined the line and never crossed it I think.
However we went from him getting _zero_ interest from _anyone_ at speed dating before I worked on him - to actually getting significantly over 50% of the women at the speed dating expressing an interest and sharing contact details.
So I do genuinely believe there are things that can be improved - that work for genuine reasons - without any of this absolute bullock tripe about getting into the "Right transactional mode of conversation and avoid being a buyer or a seller" and all that absolute anus-biscuits.
Which alas - I realise - is another anecdote which you in turn can not verify But such is the state of play. 0 -
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Deebles McBeebles wrote: »I really hope its the same guy with all these PUA accounts.
You gotta love how in the post where I wrote " Sorry mods/admins!" I predicted not only that the re-reg was about to come back but was about to specifically reply to me
I can well see how predicting the blatantly obvious a few times could leave people with a messiah complex or the illusion of being a fortune teller though.0 -
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OK. Just so we're clear:
My opinion is most women want to have children, and most women have children.ancapailldorcha wrote: »Have you any stats?
Would have thought it was pretty much common knowledge that most women want and have children, but in any case, here's some stats:The proportion of women aged 40-44 or around that are childless varies considerably across OECD countries (Table SF2.5.A). In some OECD countries, including Austria, Spain and the United Kingdom, 20% or more of women aged 40-44 or around are childless. In others, by contrast, rates are lower than 10%.
Rates of childless at or around age 40-44 are particularly low in the South or Central American OECD countries – with the rate in Chile in 2002 only 7.72% and in Mexico in 2010 only 8.55% – and particularly also in Turkey, where as late as 2008 only 4.5% of women aged 40-44 were childless.
Rates of childless at age 40-44 or around are increasing in most of those OECD countries where data are available for both time points (Table SF2.5.A). In many cases the size of changes are not directly comparable across countries because of differences in the years of reference and in some cases also definitions. Nontheless, in Finland for example, the proportion of 40-44 women that are childless increased by over 5 percentage points between 1990 and 2010, while in the United Kingdom rates of childlessness for women aged 45 increased by 6 percentage points between 1995 and 2010.
Only four OECD countries (Chile, Luxembourg, Slovenia and Turkey) with available data see the rate of childlessness fall between their two time points, with the decrease in Luxembourg (from 19% in 1991 to 15% in 2001) particularly large.
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Deebles McBeebles wrote: »Only way to be sure is to post a pic and start a poll
That definitely won't give you any self esteem issues.
not a hope! 0 -
Deebles McBeebles wrote: »Only way to be sure is to post a pic and start a poll
That definitely won't give you any self esteem issues.
What are the actual rules of posting pictures of yourself or your partner on this forum? I never see anyone do it so I assumed it was banned? In fact I seem to remember a whole thread for it called "Know your boardsies" which I now can not even find any more? Was it deleted?0 -
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 59098
I fully understand why our own Ancapailldorcha has asked to get away from this whole PUA thing(never mind that it attracts the reregs like flies to poo), but too many men are getting into this stuff, with a few going right down the rabbit hole and guys need to be warned to put on their cynicism hats.
Now if a bloke looking to up his chances - and I'd reckon in 90% of cases said blokes just want a girlfriend, not to become whoremasters - watches these vids on youtube, be 100% aware they are adverts. Adverts for "systems" these shillers want to sell to you.
They usually take the approach of email spam. Fire out dozens of these vids hoping a percentage will stick. They get the guys in by promising "free" advice. Though almost always there's a twist of you should buy their e-book, sign up for some subscription, even sign up for so called boot camps where you can learn to BangSuperModelsOnTheStreet™ or whatever. A few use well tried out marketing techniques designed to make guys feel like some secret group who know the Secret™. These are tremendously effective hooks for lonely guys. Some get into it to the point of obsession. QV our rereg guys who sign up daily to this site and others. And these chancers with the bigger setups can make a pretty penny from it(or did as the market seems swamped now).
Note that the more established companies nearly always tell men that looks don't really matter, neither does money, or height etc, but personality and attitude and with their Course of Power Dynamics™ or whatever, you'll be able to get the women you want. This is utter bollocks. Of course they say this as the men with looks, money and height are generally not concerned about this stuff. If looks didn't matter then why do the vast majority of couples match in objective physical attractiveness? We're not talking about fat billionaires with blonde dolly birds half their age waiting for them to tap out for the will, we're talking about ordinary people. Now no doubt a few men - and it's almost always men - will chime in and say their girlfriend is way out of their league, but I will bet the farm that if you asked random men and women they'd rate them the same or damned close to it. There have been a lot of studies done on this down the years that back this up. Looking back on my own relationship history, though at the time I thought they were the most gorgeous women on earth and they were to me, objectively they were about the same level as me. With one exception who was a peg above me, but she had more screws loose than a Mongolian made scooter in an earthquake, so..
Thats another thing with these chancers, a large number of these pickup bullshit artists are objectively OK, physically attractive, even some good looking men. Men can be often very bad at judging physical attractiveness in other men so don't spot this. Example. After I had a quick google on the phenomenon, though there were plenty of small scale books before on how to pick up girls(How to win friends and influence people was a major best seller along the same lines), the current crop came out of a group of guys in the early noughties who as young lads often will went out to clubs and tried to stand out from the crowd. The more geeky of them decided to see if there was a technique that would add to a guys chances and off it went. Now back then they were doing stuff like wearing purple hats and yellow pants to stand out, but one of their leaders was a guy nicknamed Mystery. All daft pants and hats. This is him minus all that stuff.
He is an objectively physically attractive man. He was also very tall(I presume he still is..). Quite the number of these chancers are similar, though usually not obviously "handsome" as far as many men think that is.
Then they may show videos of their Technique3000™ on the street or in the club. Many of these have been shown to be fakes using actresses. Not a shock. Or encounters that were nothing to do with romance or getting a date. Hell, I could get someone to video me in Paris or wherever, pretending to be an Irish tourist asking some good looking woman for directions. Most people are polite and generally like having a chat, particularly if it's someone out of the ordinary, mute the sound to "preserve her privacy"(and cover what's actually going on) have a bit of a laugh with her and the video could look like I was going great guns. Try this say twenty times in a day and I'm 100% certain I could get a set of "pickup" videos that would have a load of lads thinking my "system" worked.
Now some of this stuff does work with women. Some women, a minority. The honest guys in the game will tell people their spiel works with maybe 1-50 or 1-100. Even the most threadbare net will catch a fish if you cast it wide enough.
TL;DR? While there is some truth in what they may say, said truth is heavily preselected on the women it works for, but the vast majority of their spiel is a sales pitch to buy into their bullsh1t and give them money. Buyer beware. Now it can easily be argued many men do need some guidance, but this really isn't it.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59098
I'm sure OMM, but who are his audience likely to be? Guys who feel unattractive and have been accused of being "creepy" because they have not so great social skills. Which is more likely to get more suckers buying into it; An obviously handsome Pearce Brosnan lookalike telling them they can be like him with women, or an average looking yahoo spouting stuff they might themselves?
The guy in the video comes across as really unattractive. Fake, creepy, just not attractive.
Aside: Something I'be noticed down the years. if you look at adverts aimed at women, 9 times outa 10 they show extremely attractive women selling the product. Y'know the ones slimming ads with a lass of 17 that a stiff breeze would carry away, anti aging creams on a 22 year old model and the like. When plus sized models hit magazine covers they almost always trend low in sales. Men seem to have a different approach, so you have ads for armpit spray where an ordinary enough pudgy looking bloke gets hordes of women throwing themselves at him. Generally men seem to want to see a stand in for themselves in adverts, whereas women want to see what they might become if they buy Special K or whatever. Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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I'm sure OMM, but who are his audience likely to be? Guys who feel unattractive and have been accused of being "creepy" because they have not so great social skills. Which is more likely to get more suckers buying into it; An obviously handsome Pearce Brosnan lookalike telling them they can be like him with women, or an average looking yahoo spouting stuff they might themselves?
That's a good point. "If he can do it so can I".Aside: Something I'be noticed down the years. if you look at adverts aimed at women, 9 times outa 10 they show extremely attractive women selling the product. Y'know the ones slimming ads with a lass of 17 that a stiff breeze would carry away, anti aging creams on a 22 year old model and the like. When plus sized models hit magazine covers they almost always trend low in sales. Men seem to have a different approach, so you have ads for armpit spray where an ordinary enough pudgy looking bloke gets hordes of women throwing themselves at him. Generally men seem to want to see a stand in for themselves in adverts, whereas women want to see what they might become if they buy Special K or whatever.
Women aren't complicated. Just like men aren't complicated.
Here's a scenario:
Man is not fat. (This is important; lose weight if you're fat).
He grows his hair long, and shaves the back and sides. Think Brad Pitt in Fury.
Stubble.
Casual suit jack (dark colour).
T-shirt (dark colour).
Jeans (dark colour).
Converse or simple vans or sand boots.
He looks good.
Women will be attracted to him.
Now he just needs to not be a weirdo.
Therapy, proper socialisation, meditation, honesty.
It's not rocket science.
It might take 6 months, it might take 2 years, but it's 100% doable for almost every guy.0 -
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