How is a man supposed to find a woman in the 21st century

CelticRambler

Lux23 wrote: »

What kind of women interest you? This is a genuine question, so I can think of places that might work for you.

It wasn't specifically for my own needs (I know where "my kind of woman" hangs out - the last few of the most interesting I've met were: at the top of a mountain [total number of people present: 2]; at a supermarket check-out [total number of people present: 3, including the lady on the till]; on a park bench in Salt Lake City [excluding passers-by, total present: 2 (she was there to cause trouble :pac: )]

The question was intended to put OMM's other advice in context. Regarding that list, and taking things back to the beginning of this thread ...
Meetup group - none within 100km

Dance class - so who needs the gym? And the sweat will ruin those fancy clothes ; and once you get past the 30-year-olds, a huge proportion of the women who go there are involved with some other guy

Networking event - that counts as work, so either you'd be going anyway or you're not going to get in as a random stranger

Painting course - once again, you don't want to be too dressed up for that; but if the only reason you're signing up for that is to pull the birds, the birds will quickly see through you. :P

Couchsurfing event - none within 100km, but funnily enough, the last one I went to was pretty good. That was in Dublin; there were no Irish present! :cool: It also happened to be exactly the same kind of dance event that I go to here on the continent. Fancy clothes and a six-pack not required.

Museum tour -
Gallery opening - As for the painting. If you've no interest in what the museums or galleries are actually presenting, your lack of interest will be apparent to anyone you meet and you're only playing a role.

OMM 0000

CelticRambler wrote: »

The question was intended to put OMM's other advice in context. Regarding that list, and taking things back to the beginning of this thread ...
Meetup group - none within 100km

Dance class - so who needs the gym? And the sweat will ruin those fancy clothes ; and once you get past the 30-year-olds, a huge proportion of the women who go there are involved with some other guy

Networking event - that counts as work, so either you'd be going anyway or you're not going to get in as a random stranger

Painting course - once again, you don't want to be too dressed up for that; but if the only reason you're signing up for that is to pull the birds, the birds will quickly see through you. :P

Couchsurfing event - none within 100km, but funnily enough, the last one I went to was pretty good. That was in Dublin; there were no Irish present! :cool: It also happened to be exactly the same kind of dance event that I go to here on the continent. Fancy clothes and a six-pack not required.

Museum tour -
Gallery opening - As for the painting. If you've no interest in what the museums or galleries are actually presenting, your lack of interest will be apparent to anyone you meet and you're only playing a role.

Alright, so you just wanted to be incredibly negative?

Well done.

CelticRambler

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Alright, so you just wanted to be incredibly negative?

Well done.

Nope, not "incredibly negative" - just realistic. Much of your advice is simply impractical for the majority of ordinary men living ordinary lives, especially anywhere outside of a major population centre.

And you're all about the numbers. I disagree with that: as my examples show, it's just as easy to meet someone interesting, one-to-one, at the top of a mountain or at the supermarket check-out, and it makes damn-all difference what you're wearing if your reason for being there is, in itself, a point of conversation between yourself and the other person.

OMM 0000

CelticRambler wrote: »

Nope, not "incredibly negative" - just realistic. Much of your advice is simply impractical for the majority of ordinary men living ordinary lives, especially anywhere outside of a major population centre.

And you're all about the numbers. I disagree with that: as my examples show, it's just as easy to meet someone interesting, one-to-one, at the top of a mountain or at the supermarket check-out, and it makes damn-all difference what you're wearing if your reason for being there is, in itself, a point of conversation between yourself and the other person.

You're trying very hard to take the most negative view on my posts.

My point, which I thought was obvious, is you need to get out there. Go to events, courses, whatever. Be around people. Talk to people.

If you aren't willing to make an effort, or want to remain living in a location which makes it very difficult to meet people, that's on you.

Now I await your negative interpretation of the above. Let me guess. I'm not taking account of people who can't speak or are physically disabled?

Why am I wasting my time? Good luck to you.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Guys I think you two should just ride each other. All this will they won't they back and forth snipping and teasing, come on. Whip em out and see where things go

Jimmy Bottlehead

CelticRambler wrote: »

Nope, not "incredibly negative" - just realistic. Much of your advice is simply impractical for the majority of ordinary men living ordinary lives, especially anywhere outside of a major population centre.

And you're all about the numbers. I disagree with that: as my examples show, it's just as easy to meet someone interesting, one-to-one, at the top of a mountain or at the supermarket check-out, and it makes damn-all difference what you're wearing if your reason for being there is, in itself, a point of conversation between yourself and the other person.

I'd agree, you're being dismissive and purposefully awkward.

It IS all about numbers. Higher numbers equal higher chances of meeting the woman who'll actually interest you. It's simple statistics. If you stick to hanging around deserted mountain tops waiting for single women, your chances of meeting one are slim... but your chances of getting arrested are higher.

Get out, try some new stuff, meet new people, dress nice, get sweaty or painty or whatever and actually try to be a man who's a laugh to be around rather than one who rigidly stays in his lane, and is confused why the world won't amend itself to suit his wants.

Mister Vain

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Let's agree to disagree instead of going around in circles.

I will explain my logic to you and then leave I'll leave it at that:

He said in an earlier post he's long term unemployed. So I was thinking three things:

a) Gym is good for battling depression, improving health, improving appearance, etc., but I was mostly thinking about the depression angle.

b) The 5 day routine (each body part once per week) is universally agreed as the best routine for mass and recovery. In comparison, the 'full body/three days a week' routine is far more likely to cause an injury due to overtraining. If you don't understand what I mean, I'll explain: on the 5 day routine you train arms once per week; on the 3 day routine you train arms thrice per week.

c) He needs a routine, something to look forward to, something to build a life around. Get out of the house, accomplish something, feel good. Gym is really good for this.

This sort of logic shouldn't make you angry.

OK, as I said, I don't want to go round in circles, so I'll leave this as my last gym-related post.

As I said earlier, the gym in and of itself is a good idea. We can agree on that. If he decides to take on a strict regime he can consult with a personal trainer. But like I said, that's unlikely to be high up on his list of priorities at the moment.

ginandtonicsky

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

It IS all about numbers. Higher numbers equal higher chances of meeting the woman who'll actually interest you. It's simple statistics. If you stick to hanging around deserted mountain tops waiting for single women, your chances of meeting one are slim... but your chances of getting arrested are higher.

This "numbers game" approach is probably why online dating is such a sh1tshow for an overwhelming amount of single people IME.

Most men adapt it and swipe right on everyone, ask 40 women out and go on as many dates a week as possible. The outcome being 1,400 Tinder matches for the woman, who is overwhelmed by her options to the point of becoming unrealistically and counter-productively picky and focusing on things that really, really don't matter as far as romantic compatibility is concerned in the first place. Things like how tall is he and what job does he have if you're a woman, or how hot is she and is she 5 - 10 years younger than me if you're male.

It's hard to blame either sex for beginning to think this way, as it's like the apps are programmed for failure by encouraging these kinds of behaviours in the first place. The more perceived choice you have, the less likely you are to actually choose something or someone. "Perceived" being the important word here, because 9.99 times out of ten you're going on underwhelming dates that go nowhere and clicking with noone. Giving noone a real chance because why bother when there's 500 more of where that came from.

The maths of "the more people you meet, the more likely you are to meet someone" are of course exactly correct. But IME when you meet that person and a relationship starts, it's when you "were in the right place at the right time" as far as opportunity, timing and having things / people in common are concerned, rather than having gone on 100 first dates and the 100th one was on the money.

_blaaz

You can get jail in india for ghosting someone off tinder


https://www.vice.com/amp/en_asia/article/ywykny/a-man-in-india-has-been-jailed-for-having-a-one-night-stand-with-a-tinder-date




Pretty sure we need to build another jail,if that could happen here

ginandtonicsky

_blaaz wrote: »

You can get jail in india for ghosting someone off tinder

https://www.vice.com/amp/en_asia/article/ywykny/a-man-in-india-has-been-jailed-for-having-a-one-night-stand-with-a-tinder-date


Pretty sure we need to build another jail,if that could happen here

HAHAHAHA that's awesome. Imagine rocking up to the Gardai with a laundry list of your ghosters from Tinder :pac::pac::pac:

Jimmy Bottlehead

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

This "numbers game" approach is probably why online dating is such a sh1tshow for an overwhelming amount of single people IME.

Most men adapt it and swipe right on everyone, ask 40 women out and go on as many dates a week as possible. The outcome being 1,400 Tinder matches for the woman, who is overwhelmed by her options to the point of becoming unrealistically and counter-productively picky and focusing on things that really, really don't matter as far as romantic compatibility is concerned in the first place. Things like how tall is he and what job does he have if you're a woman, or how hot is she and is she 5 - 10 years younger than me if you're male.

It's hard to blame either sex for beginning to think this way, as it's like the apps are programmed for failure by encouraging these kinds of behaviours in the first place. The more perceived choice you have, the less likely you are to actually choose something or someone. "Perceived" being the important word here, because 9.99 times out of ten you're going on underwhelming dates that go nowhere and clicking with noone. Giving noone a real chance because why bother when there's 500 more of where that came from.

The maths of "the more people you meet, the more likely you are to meet someone" are of course exactly correct. But IME when you meet that person and a relationship starts, it's when you "were in the right place at the right time" as far as opportunity, timing and having things / people in common are concerned, rather than having gone on 100 first dates and the 100th one was on the money.

I'm not saying that more dates means you WILL find the ideal person. It's absolutely a crap shoot and one could end up going on 99 mediocre dates before meeting a suitable partner, or one could go on five dates before meeting a suitable partner.

The perceived choice is difficult, because it does require effort and faith, both of which can be lessened and damaged over time and through bad experience, but as with most things, anything worth having doesn't tend to come easily.

But the numbers side means that if you ARE open to meeting someone, and are mature enough to realise the value of a suitable person if you meet them (and vice versa), you're more likely to come into contact with them in the first place.

SharpshooterTom

Elisa Warm Ball wrote: »

Can I ask, are you sure you're not popular or people don't warm to you? In your posts you're coming across very well, articulate, intelligent, nice. I know there can be a big gulf between how we come across online and in person though.

When you say you don't socialise well, what is it? That you get very stressed out, that you offend people without meaning to, that conversations falter and fail?

It's just that I see you say you were bullied when you were younger and I wonder if to some extent you have an ingrained idea in your head of how people perceive you and it's not really accurate any more.

I understand your caution and that your priority is your mental health but from where I'm sitting you sound like a man who would have a lot to bring to a relationship. The fact that's a concern for you makes you more emotionally intelligent than an awful lot of men, for one thing.

Yes, this. Its hard to say whether they falter and fail, but they don't tend to go anywhere meaningful. I can do the usual small chat and talk to people, but for some reason it doesn't ever go much further and I often fail form a closer relationship over time with someone. I don't know why that is, and I assume I'm not long term a particularly appealing person to hang around with.

Like I say I've never had any meaningful close friends in my adult life, and there has to be a reason for that. When you've lived like that for so long, you tend to accept you naturally have personality flaws that inhibit you from being in any long term relationships.

That's part of the reason why I don't know whether its suitable for me to be involved in the dating world because I don't know what a potential partner would get out from being with me, I have doubts I can make someone happy in the long term and ultamitely it would break down. So I concentrate learning to live on my own as healthy as I possibly can just for now.

Could I be happier? If I strike it lucky and everything fell on my lap, perfect marriage, perfect family life with kids, sure, but I'm not sure that's possible and comes across as a bit of pipe dream for me. A lot marriages break down and I fear I'd be worse for it given the state of my mental fragility.

ginandtonicsky

Hey Thomas. What do you do to try to meet people, either for friendship or with a view to starting a relationship?

I completely appreciate the mindset you're in by the way. I think often this chicken-or-egg scenario with dating and relationships can crop up when someone has little to no experience with it. You question yourself down to your core and can develop a real complex around it and an embedded self-image that doesn't really help things along for you.

IME things need to change in both your mindset and your environment to produce different results. You need to dismantle the negative self-image and learn how to flirt and be direct with women, no easy feats I know. But success breeds success and with a little bit of encouragement, whether it's nailing down a first date or having a bit of a flirt with someone, things can really start to change.

It's not just popular or confident or socially savvy people that end up in relationships btw.

leahyl

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

Hey Thomas. What do you do to try to meet people, either for friendship or with a view to starting a relationship?

I completely appreciate the mindset you're in by the way. I think often this chicken-or-egg scenario with dating and relationships can crop up when someone has little to no experience with it. You question yourself down to your core and can develop a real complex around it and an embedded self-image that doesn't really help things along for you.

IME things need to change in both your mindset and your environment to produce different results. You need to dismantle the negative self-image and learn how to flirt and be direct with women, no easy feats I know. But success breeds success and with a little bit of encouragement, whether it's nailing down a first date or having a bit of a flirt with someone, things can really start to change.

It's not just popular or confident or socially savvy people that end up in relationships btw.

This is more or less me to a tee. I don't have any releationship experience either so I guess it kind of scares me a bit that I'm not good enough even though I know deep down that I am.

Deebles McBeebles

Even with experience it can be the same deal. I think sometimes a lack of past experiences can make you a bit more willing to get into a relationship.

ancapailldorcha

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Even with experience it can be the same deal. I think sometimes a lack of past experiences can make you a bit more willing to get into a relationship.

I'm not so sure. I think that it can make a relationship seem a bit more intimidating than it actually is. Obviously depends on the person involved though.

Deebles McBeebles

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'm not so sure. I think that it can make a relationship seem a bit more intimidating than it actually is. Obviously depends on the person involved though.

Maybe so. I'm speaking from the other side of it I suppose. After experiencing multiple long-term relationships the baggage can start to build up.

Pac1Man

Elisa Warm Ball wrote: »

Guys I think you two should just ride each other. All this will they won't they back and forth snipping and teasing, come on. Whip em out and see where things go

Probably my favourite Shakespeare quote.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Yes, this. Its hard to say whether they falter and fail, but they don't tend to go anywhere meaningful. I can do the usual small chat and talk to people, but for some reason it doesn't ever go much further and I often fail form a closer relationship over time with someone. I don't know why that is, and I assume I'm not long term a particularly appealing person to hang around with.

Like I say I've never had any meaningful close friends in my adult life, and there has to be a reason for that. When you've lived like that for so long, you tend to accept you naturally have personality flaws that inhibit you from being in any long term relationships.

In my experience beyond very early adulthood, there's nothing but small talk at the start of what may become a friendship.

What do you do to try and change acquaintances into friends? Do you ask people to events etc? Fact is at your age most people are going to have certain other commitments, they're not going to hand you friendship on a plate, but that doesn't mean they'll reject any friendly overtures you might make.

Given your description of your isolation and inexperience I can see how you might come across a bit odd, but given your posts here I'd be surprised if there's not plenty to like about you as well.

I don't think the problem is anything inherent in you so much as you're stuck in this loop of thinking that it is.

That's part of the reason why I don't know whether its suitable for me to be involved in the dating world because I don't know what a potential partner would get out from being with me, I have doubts I can make someone happy in the long term and ultamitely it would break down. So I concentrate learning to live on my own as healthy as I possibly can just for now.

Could I be happier? If I strike it lucky and everything fell on my lap, perfect marriage, perfect family life with kids, sure, but I'm not sure that's possible and comes across as a bit of pipe dream for me. A lot marriages break down and I fear I'd be worse for it given the state of my mental fragility.

I understand. And I think it is good that you're relying on yourself to learn how to live healthily, not thinking a relationship would fix everything

Where do you live? I'm in a long term relationship but if you're in Cork I really mean this, I'll grab a friendly coffee with you or something. Most of my friends are big weirdos anyway, the more the merrier :pac:

Ardillaun

Thomas, I sent you a private message. If there’s anything you think I could do to help, or if you are ever planning a trip to Canada, please give me a shout.

jcorr

Gael23 wrote: »

What about a man that seeks to find a man?

Well he wouldn't be doing too bad given the rainbow flags plastered all around Dublin.

Tuco88

If your not into the gym scene...you could buy those home weight bench sets.

That's what my cousin did, worked great for him. He started cycling too, different man now

SharpshooterTom

Elisa Warm Ball wrote: »

In my experience beyond very early adulthood, there's nothing but small talk at the start of what may become a friendship.

What do you do to try and change acquaintances into friends? Do you ask people to events etc? Fact is at your age most people are going to have certain other commitments, they're not going to hand you friendship on a plate, but that doesn't mean they'll reject any friendly overtures you might make.

Given your description of your isolation and inexperience I can see how you might come across a bit odd, but given your posts here I'd be surprised if there's not plenty to like about you as well.

I don't think the problem is anything inherent in you so much as you're stuck in this loop of thinking that it is.

I don't because I feel I may be a burden and don't want to appear too clingy. I usually wait for others to offer and if they don't which is often the case I assume they don't want to be too close to me. A lot of these people have as you say other commitments, usually long term partners, many are married etc.

You're right though I do come across as a bit odd as obviously I wouldn't be in this situation if didn't.

Elisa Warm Ball wrote: »

I understand. And I think it is good that you're relying on yourself to learn how to live healthily, not thinking a relationship would fix everything

Where do you live? I'm in a long term relationship but if you're in Cork I really mean this, I'll grab a friendly coffee with you or something. Most of my friends are big weirdos anyway, the more the merrier :pac:

I'm afraid I'm in the opposite end of the country/island, up here in Omagh :pac:

I've never been to Cork or that part of Ireland before, Dublin is about as far south as I ever go. Would like to at some point though. I'm well travelled generally as far as the world goes but I haven't seen enough of Ireland.

worded

Good tip for when you find a significant other ...

Want your girlfriend to stop talking? Just hug her and say you want to hear her heartbeat. She'll be quiet and think you're romantic.