Irish language revival

ILoveYourVibes

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Who said anything about browbeating or forcing anyone? As if that would work. It wouldn’t.
There is any amount of ways to rebrand it and make people want to engage though. The impetus just isn’t there.

Ok just rememeber i am not being shouty ...and i like you.


Rebranding is fake bs.


Are Irish speakers GENUINE?

Or is all this fake?

Do you really LOVE the Irish language? Do you really want to share it and open it up???

Not you personally ....the general spirit of the movement or Irish speaking community.

All you have to do is find something within it that really interests each student. And tell them they are welcome within it.

Its needs inspiration and fire. I want someone to answer my space monkey question! :mad:

Or try to ..or imagine!

I am not going to hang around for a brand. I am off for that.

Either its passionate or not.

My space monkey question ..is a good question!


Someone explain the linguistics of Irish ...the psychology of it ...GET ME INTERESTED..


Why is Irish so spatially orientated?



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/reading-the-grammar-of-an-irish-mind-1.1939090

I MEAN LOOK AT THIS ..THIS IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!

Éilís Ní Dhuibhne (the writer of this article ) is a GENIUS! I BET SHE COULD ANSWER MY SPACE MONKEY QUESTION!


Maybe instead of thinking Irish kids are really DUMB realize they are too smart to fall for any rebranding. And offer them something REAL and fascinating. Its called KNOWLEDGE.

Not shouty! :P

And read that article its fascinating!

Upforthematch

BarryD2 wrote: »

I've wondered if a modern Irish speaker met a native speaker from say the 18th century, would they be able to converse at all meaningfully? Even now, there are differences in vocabulary between Ulster, Connacht and Munster Irish and then there's the official version. The whole area is full of contradictions but I suppose such is life.

A speaker from the 19th century certainly could. Look at a couple of books from the 1900's (they're free online) and while the spelling might be different, the substance is the same.

Living languages evolve, the English syntax in Irish is now commonplace. I'm sure Spanish as spoken in the southern states in the US would be a little different to the classical version also!

Das Reich

janfebmar wrote: »

It's an ugly dead language and a waste if taxpayers money.

I doubt is ugly or hard to learn as some people here say, English is both of them.

ILoveYourVibes

Upforthematch wrote: »

Ever hear of first mover advantage? You're right it doesn't matter as much today but it undoubtedly did in the past.

Speaking English has helped Irish people make a living for over 150 years - outside of Ireland in particular. I don't think we realise just how important that diaspora (particularly in USA) has been for us economically and politically.

It has helped prosperity in Ireland also, not singlehandedly but in combination with other factors, particularly in more recent decades. We can't ignore that the shift in the mother tongue was - for the most part - a pragmatic and incentivised choice, not a violent struggle.

Ní bheathaíonn na briathra na bráithre as they say.

Colonization and its affects, is never a choice.

ILoveYourVibes

Das Reich wrote: »

I doubt is ugly or hard to learn as some people here say, English is both of them.

That is relative. It is to them. English is to you. You are both right.

Greyfox

Reati wrote: »

Speaking English actually doesn't mean much anymore because a huge number of people speak it.

It's still far better then having someone who is only fluent in Irish

ILoveYourVibes

Greyfox wrote: »

It's still far better then having someone who is only fluent in Irish

Maybe not who knows.

I think having someone only fluent in Irish would be cool if you could travel back in time ....you could ask questions.....space monkey questions....


Cé na mhoncaí spáis?

I refuse to let this go.

Upforthematch

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Colonization and its affects, is never a choice.

The one and only English Pope Adrian IV invited the English to sojourn in Ireland in 1156. It was a long time after that English become the mother tongue for most of us!

Stop moaning ffs

Lets not forget English is a mongrel language and relatively young and mutated really quickly into its current form. It’s being abandoned by youth of today who seem to speak in emojis and have abysmal spelling and grammar when they do try to use it

ILoveYourVibes

Upforthematch wrote: »

The one and only English Pope Adrian IV invited the English to sojourn in Ireland in 1156. It was a long time after that English become the mother tongue for most of us!

WIKI

It is believed that Irish remained the majority tongue as late as 1800[18] but became a minority language during the 19th century.[19

I wonder what their value system was. It should be ours ..now...

I mean all those ghosts....they prolly be hurt we were speaking the language of the people who crushed them. I think they would want to know we were ok though!

Irish needs a field of dreams moment.

Keep the faith

Greyfox

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It teach so bad in school it need change radical. Drop all the poetry and write grammar and tenses sh!te and focus to teach how to speak proper and communicate effective...

You get my drift? The educational system manages to teach grammar, cases and tenses very well in other languages. There is nothing particularly difficult about Irish grammar or its verbs.

No, it doesnt change the fact that what Wakka said is correct. Irish grammer is difficult to learn if the only other language you know is English. If you learn the words first and the grammer 2nd you at least know what your learning the grammer for.

ILoveYourVibes

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Lets not forget English is a mongrel language and relatively young and mutated really quickly into its current form. It’s being abandoned by youth of today who seem to speak in emojis and have abysmal spelling and grammar when they do try to use it

Lets not attack English. Its as lovely as any language. And emojis are kind of like Egyptian hieroglyphs.

Chinese characters evolved from symbols like emojis.

Stop moaning ffs

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Lets not attack English. Its as lovely as any language. And emojis are kind of like Egyptian hieroglyphs.

Chinese characters evolved from symbols like emojis.

Ah I wasn’t attacking them. Though they actively wiped out the Irish language here and punished anyone using it.

ILoveYourVibes

OMG LOOK AT THIS WHAT DOES THIS ALL MEAN!??



Its from 1390.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Irish_language#/media/File:Book_of_Ballymote_170r.jpg



Why are there circles and a pyramid?

Upforthematch

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Though they actively wiped out the Irish language here and punished anyone using it.

And punished the Welsh... and Scots as well probably.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Not

Look at the history of the French language - not everyone was speaking 'Parisian' in France either.

Punishment often equalled death in those times. The Maam Trasna murder case is one example of where an Irish speaker was wronged by an English speaking system:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maolra_Seoighe

There weren't thousands of such cases though as you would expect if there was an "active wipeout'. The English language programme in Ireland in 19th century did have many native sympathisers.

Stop moaning ffs

Upforthematch wrote: »

And punished the Welsh... and Scots as well probably.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Not

Look at the history of the French language - not everyone was speaking 'Parisian' in France either.

Punishment often equalled death in those times. The Maam Trasna murder case is one example of where an Irish speaker was wronged by an English speaking system:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maolra_Seoighe

There weren't thousands of such cases though as you would expect if there was an "active wipeout'. The English language programme in Ireland in 19th century did have many native sympathisers.

Well it went from hanging up to the softer feeding people if they anglicised their names.
The infamous ‘yis took the spud’ slur that survives to this day

whisky_galore

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Well it went from hanging up to the softer feeding people if they anglicised their names.
The infamous ‘yis took the spud’ slur that survives to this day

Along with countless other outdated and usually inaccurate slurs unfortunately.

Stop moaning ffs

whisky_galore wrote: »

Along with countless other outdated and usually inaccurate slurs unfortunately.

So how else was it achieved pray tell?
We have thousands of surnames In Ireland that are warped versions of their original Irish origin.

We all just decided overnight to change them did we?

BarryD2

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Though they actively wiped out the Irish language here and punished anyone using it.

Christian Brother type historical hogwash! There's a world of difference between bringing in notional laws and implementing them. Irish people moved to speaking English for the same practical & economic reasons that pertains right across the world to this very day.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

BarryD2 wrote: »

Christian Brother type historical hogwash! There's a world of difference between bringing in notional laws and implementing them. Irish people moved to speaking English for the same practical & economic reasons that pertains right across the world to this very day.

The economic and political reasons were the result of colonialism of course, without the British empire it wouldn’t have been practical.

ILoveYourVibes

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

The economic and political reasons were the result of colonialism of course, without the British empire it wouldn’t have been practical.

They could have been a nicer empire to be honest.

I mean Miccy D's lets people speak their own language!

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

_blaaz wrote: »

Orally its not a particularly difficult language to master


Dont see whats wrong with aspiring to have large% of population fluent in it?

I never found Irish easy. And it wasn’t because I was weak at learning languages generally. I was a good French student. But Irish just alluded me. I never found it easy or even interesting. I would gladly have jettisoned it as a subject if I could have.

Stop moaning ffs

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I never found Irish easy. And it wasn’t because I was weak at learning languages generally. I was a good French student. But Irish just alluded me. I never found it easy or even interesting. I would gladly have jettisoned it as a subject if I could have.

That brings up the main problem.
Application.
We none of us have any need to know it and use it. There’s the huge breach in it being of any practical use.
Handy to know French in France. Etc
Really no need in Ireland.

It’s a bummer


*i say that being doubly depressed as someone who has friends here who can speak fluent Sindarin and Klingon.

facehugger99

Irish is a complete waste of time. I've managed to get both my kids exemptions from it so they can use that time in secondary school to study useful stuff.

It's quite easy if you know the right professionals and I would encourage any parent who values their child's education to do the same.

Stop moaning ffs

facehugger99 wrote: »

Irish is a complete waste of time. I've managed to get both my kids exemptions from it so they can use that time in secondary school to study useful stuff.

It's quite easy if you know the right professionals and I would encourage any parent who values their child's education to do the same.

You’re also known for your loathing of all things irish, weird you’d deny your kids an education in their heritage. Presuming you and them are Irish.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

That brings up the main problem.
Application.
We none of us have any need to know it and use it. There’s the huge breach in it being of any practical use.
Handy to know French in France. Etc
Really no need in Ireland.

It’s a bummer


*i say that being doubly depressed as someone who has friends here who can speak fluent Sindarin and Klingon.

It’s not even that. I just didn’t like it as a subject. Like others don’t like maths or history or whatever.

BarryD2

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

That brings up the main problem.
Application.
We none of us have any need to know it and use it. There’s the huge breach in it being of any practical use.
Handy to know French in France. Etc
Really no need in Ireland.

It’s a bummer.

Agreed, only needed for certain jobs and after that, just a hobby or cultural interest.

Stop moaning ffs

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

It’s not even that. I just didn’t like it as a subject. Like others don’t like maths or history or whatever.

I’d blame the teaching and method. Any good teacher can make the most boring subject exciting and worth learning.
Irish certainly doesn’t have anything going for it as it’s taught now or previously.

I mean Peig


Ffs what’s an awful idea

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I’d blame the teaching and method. Any good teacher can make the most boring subject exciting and worth learning.
Irish certainly doesn’t have anything going for it as it’s taught now or previously.

I mean Peig


Ffs what’s an awful idea

I had some good Irish teachers. It just wasn’t for me. And I actually missed out on Peig Sayers, the curriculum changed.

I’ve found some people to be quite judgemental of me IRL for not liking Irish as a subject or language. Nobody ever seems to have a problem with people not liking maths or french or history. Just because it’s our former native tongue doesn’t mean everyone is going to like learning it.

I like French because I think it’s a beautiful language. I didn’t feel the same about Irish.

Stop moaning ffs

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I had some good Irish teachers. It just wasn’t for me. And I actually missed out on Peig Sayers, the curriculum changed.

I’ve found some people to be quite judgemental of me IRL for not liking Irish as a subject or language. Nobody ever seems to have a problem with people not liking maths or french or history. Just because it’s our former native tongue doesn’t mean everyone is going to like learning it.

I like French because I think it’s a beautiful language. I didn’t feel the same about Irish.

You can’t blame the language on someone judging you for not liking it. Fvck em.

I went to a Gaelscoil for secondary. Not having any Irish. Not the brightest idea.
I had to learn French and German starting first year through a second language I didn’t know.
They were both taught through Irish. As was everything except English.
I was fluent in conversational Irish by the end of first year.
I still have no idea what’s going on in French or German but I can ask for directions to the train station or mayors house if I’m lost on Germany

And mein kuli ist kapput

Me and my classmate day one of German in first year thought this was the funniest thing. Also the only thing I remember about learning German.

Still have my Irish though.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

You can’t blame the language on someone judging you for not liking it. Fvck em.

I went to a Gaelscoil for secondary. Not having any Irish. Not the brightest idea.
I had to learn French and German starting first year through a second language I didn’t know.
They were both taught through Irish. As was everything except English.
I was fluent in conversational Irish by the end of first year.
I still have no idea what’s going on in French or German but I can ask for directions to the train station or mayors house if I’m lost on Germany

And mein kuli ist kapput

Me and my classmate day one of German in first year thought this was the funniest thing. Also the only thing I remember about learning German.

Still have my Irish though.

I don’t understand the bolded bit!

Stop moaning ffs

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I don’t understand the bolded bit!

It’s not the fault of the language/you can’t dislike the language, because people gave you crap for not enjoying the learning of it

whisky_galore

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s not the fault of the language/you can’t dislike the language, because people gave you crap for not enjoying the learning of it

What?

The language is fine. I choose not to speak it because I have fcuk all use for it. I couldn't care less if it sinks or swims. At least I don't have the "shur wouldn't it be lovely if I could speak it" attitude of so many on here. These people are in hopes that others would learn it for them, or the govt would "do something", i.e. fire more money at the problem so by some miracle it would be spoken again by one and all and we'd all live happily ever after. Tbh this is just sheer laziness if they actually wish to retain the language.

I used it as a means to an end, to pass a set of exams, like many other people.
Languages have become extinct before and I don't recall anyone dying on account of it.
If you like it and speak it, good for you. It's just not my bag and others may feel similarly for whatever reason.

Potential-Monke

Looking back at school, I would have much preferred to learn anything other than Irish and French. I was not great at them, and I've never used French since. I used a bit of Irish to pass the exam in the Garda college, but haven't used it since that day (2007). I'm currently using Duolingo to learn Japanese, and I've only done about 2 hours in total, and I already feel like I've learned more than the 5 years in school learning Irish and French. Interesting fact (according to Duolingo), there are more people learning Irish on Duolingo than there are native Irish speakers.

Stop moaning ffs

whisky_galore wrote: »

What?

The language is fine. I choose not to speak it because I have fcuk all use for it. I couldn't care less if it sinks or swims. At least I don't have the "shur wouldn't it be lovely if I could speak it" attitude of so many on here. These people are in hopes that others would learn it for them, or the govt would "do something", i.e. fire more money at the problem so by some miracle it would be spoken again by one and all and we'd all live happily ever after. Tbh this is just sheer laziness if they actually wish to retain the language.

I used it as a means to an end, to pass a set of exams, like many other people.
Languages have become extinct before and I don't recall anyone dying on account of it.
If you like it and speak it, good for you. It's just not my bag and others may feel similarly for whatever reason.

I’m not saying you must learn it or you must encourage the learning of it.
That achieves nothing. Nobody cares about what myself or you thinks.

I am saying imagine the people of Ireland were as enagaged in Irish as they are with the premiership or love island or X factor or any amount of bull**** we’d be all better off.


It’s embarrasing we don’t engage with the heart of our culture and instead are addicted brain dead zombies to the brain dead nonsense that comes from Britain.

Stop moaning ffs

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Looking back at school, I would have much preferred to learn anything other than Irish and French. I was not great at them, and I've never used French since. I used a bit of Irish to pass the exam in the Garda college, but haven't used it since that day (2007). I'm currently using Duolingo to learn Japanese, and I've only done about 2 hours in total, and I already feel like I've learned more than the 5 years in school learning Irish and French. Interesting fact (according to Duolingo), there are more people learning Irish on Duolingo than there are native Irish speakers.

The times I think confirmed this.
There are more Irish speakers around the world of different nationalities that can speak Irish than there are people in Ireland than can speak Irish.

steddyeddy

I like Irish and want to relearn it but I find a lot of the fluent speakers, particularly from the west of Ireland aren't the most encouraging. Myself and my other half were learning it together but in a Irish speaking meet up a few of the country's western inhabitants just seemed to be there to criticise people speaking it wrong or with a different dialect.

_blaaz

steddyeddy wrote: »

I like Irish and want to relearn it but I find a lot of the fluent speakers, particularly from the west of Ireland aren't the most encouraging. Myself and my other half were learning it together but in a Irish speaking meet up a few of the country's western inhabitants just seemed to be there to criticise people speaking it wrong or with a different dialect.

Come to an rinn


Irelands smallest but bestest gaeltacht!

Stop moaning ffs

If you’re so easily upset about someones enthusiasm for their heritage but you have time to complain about hating it in the internet, well

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s not the fault of the language/you can’t dislike the language, because people gave you crap for not enjoying the learning of it

This sentence hurts my brain matter.

I did not particularly like the language itself. I had some good teachers. Why do you think people can’t dislike a language?

Oh and I don’t watch X Factor, Love Island or football.

El Tarangu

El Tarangu wrote: »

The Irish figure is definitely more aspirational than based in reality, and I suspect that Welsh figure is, too.

As someone who speaks Irish fluently, I have used the language on a couple of dozen occasions in the 15 years since I left school (mainly for talking smack about people while with other Irish people abroad), and I think I have heard it while out and about in Ireland fewer than 10 times.

I lived in North Wales for about a year back in the 1980s, Welsh was widely spoken by a minority of people, my best guess would be about 15% in that area which was close to the English border. In other areas it was far more widely spoken.

TheDiceMan2020

TheDiceMan2020 wrote: »

It's passed on! This language is no more! It has ceased to be! 'It's expired and gone to meet its maker! 'It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! It's kicked the bucket, its shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-LANGUAGE!!

the Norwegian blue version.

Stop moaning ffs

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

This sentence hurts my brain matter.

I did not particularly like the language itself. I had some good teachers. Why do you think people can’t dislike a language?

Oh and I don’t watch X Factor, Love Island or football.

Wasn’t directed at you.

Just the rampant unregulated anti Irish spin bots that infect boards and are somehow allowed away with it every single time

whisky_galore

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I’m not saying you must learn it or you must encourage the learning of it.
That achieves nothing. Nobody cares about what myself or you thinks.

I am saying imagine the people of Ireland were as enagaged in Irish as they are with the premiership or love island or X factor or any amount of bull**** we’d be all better off.


It’s embarrasing we don’t engage with the heart of our culture and instead are addicted brain dead zombies to the brain dead nonsense that comes from Britain.

Embarrassing for who? Oh right, just yourself.

Our culture consists not just of language. Again, why does language seem to trump other aspects of our culture for you? Explain how it's the "heart" of our culture, and not music, dance, sport, literature ?

Ironic username is ironic btw.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Wasn’t directed at you.

Just the rampant unregulated anti Irish spin bots that infect boards and are somehow allowed away with it every single time

Are they breaking forum rules?

_blaaz

whisky_galore wrote: »

Embarrassing for who? Oh right, just yourself.

Our culture consists not just of language. Again, why does language seem to trump other aspects of our culture for you? Explain how it's the "heart" of our culture, and not music, dance, sport, literature ?

Ironic username is ironic btw.

For someone who claims to be neutral and not care about whether language survives or not.....you spend an inordinate amount of time running it down and attacking anyone who enjoys it :pac:

ghostfacekilla

One of it's major hurdles is the fact that most of the dialects can't understand each other due to the evolution of the language over time.
It's One of the top ten oldest languages in the world that is still spoken with hebrew at number one. It would be a shame if we let it die, from a cultural aspect.
I spent over 18yrs living in a Gaeltacht and the youth have abandoned the place due to a lack of investment by the government. So with emigration, the language dies with it.

Reati

_blaaz wrote: »

Come to an rinn


Irelands smallest but bestest gaeltacht!

Is aobhionn liom an rinn! Daoine álainn síos ann.

Hamsterchops

Is aobhionn liom an rinn! Daoine álainn síos ann.
According to Google translate ......
"I love the tip! Beautiful people down there"

janfebmar

facehugger99 wrote: »

Irish is a complete waste of time. I've managed to get both my kids exemptions from it so they can use that time in secondary school to study useful stuff.

It's quite easy if you know the right professionals and I would encourage any parent who values their child's education to do the same.

Sad thing is the government and all their departments are still wasting billions on a language nobody speaks.