Feral Cat control being taken seriously

CJhaughey

Interesting article from the Examiner about Australia's efforts to control Feral cats due to the mass extinctions that are taking place with their native mammals.
Ireland is estimated to lose 4m birds per year to cats so they are a real threat to biodiversity as well.
Interestingly they say that shooting is by far the most effective method of control.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/cats-in-the-crosshairs-australia-deadly-serious-about-cat-culling-928132.html
This has to be taken seriously here and all shooters need to recognise that feral cats are as much a threat as Foxes and Mink.

tabby aspreme

Very few feral cats in Ireland, how would somebody out hunting know whether a cat was feral, or somebody's pet.

Baybay

TNR has worked very well in other countries without the wholesale massacre of cats.
What is it with humans that our only response to anything is annihilation?

Blueshoe

We have a cat at home and maybe 3 mornings out of the week every week I wake up to decapitated mice,rats and small birds on the door step.

The cat likes to sit on the top of the roof near the chimney and watch everything. It's a killing machine but totally useless in every other way.
Sort of a universal soldier type cat. Only good for one purpose. Killing.

When other cats from around the area sneak into the back yard our lad goes off hiding and won't defend its territory or food. No good

J.R.

On two of the permissions I can shoot over I meet cats there regularly hunting the hedgerow. I know they belong to the landowner who has them around the sheds, out houses and farm yard for rodent control.

I know they are doing damage in the hedgerow (they must be!) but I've never shot any of them due to knowing who owns them.

cookimonster

There's a bit of a difference between the feral cats here and Australia. The Australian problem spans over decades if not centuries of feral cat populations, a man made issue, which have exploded over time. As with many species purposefully or accidentaly introduced to the wild the impact can be devastating.

Although I have witnessed several feral cat colonies, formerly common to military barracks but also seen around country style hotels, industrial estates etc, a lot of ground birds are taken by local roaming household pets. A former permission of mine was on a large estate managed for a very large shoot and one game keeper consistently trapped cats, which were unfortunately house hold cats. Subsequent keepers didn't seem to employ such methods and infact even managed the fox population ensuring that there were just enough pairs on the land so not to encourage more foxs. Weather this is effective I don't know (an article from Roy Lupton seems to dismiss this approach).

If there was such a feral problem here would we not be seeing them more on our nocturnal outings after fox and rabbits. I have seen my equal share of badgers, pine martin and cats when out lamping but would certainly not rate cats as a common occurrence when lamping areas with plenty of ground birds, rabbits (popular with marauding pet cats).

As with my previous comment, if you have a smores bord of game birds on offer especially in pens then I would agree that local feral cats as well as pets will take liberties. But like our suburban and city foxs cats will take an easy option if there is a discarded food source readily available.

Oasis1974

Blueshoe wrote: »

We have a cat at home and maybe 3 mornings out of the week every week I wake up to decapitated mice,rats and small birds on the door step.

The cat likes to sit on the top of the roof near the chimney and watch everything. It's a killing machine but totally useless in every other way.
Sort of a universal soldier type cat. Only good for one purpose. Killing.

When other cats from around the area sneak into the back yard our lad goes off hiding and won't defend its territory or food. No good

How you spoken to him about this?

dodderangler

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Very few feral cats in Ireland, how would somebody out hunting know whether a cat was feral, or somebody's pet.

Feral or pet makes no difference. Both kill for sport.
We can’t turn around and say that that cat kills so many birds but it’s owned by someone so lets leave it alone?
Take them out.
Secondly there is plenty of feral cats about. The land I hunt on had way too many. One is fine on the farmyard. But no more.
This is always going to be a touchy subject but we need to stop making it touchy. They’re worse than foxes and mink.

Richard308

When growing up We had a massive black tom cat. Biggest cat I’ve ever seen. He was an absolute gent. Friendly loyal. Never touched my sisters rabbit or our Yorkshire terrier. Often would bring birds, rats, mice etc. then one morning, he started leaving other Tom cats dead at our door. He was a monster. Our neighbor called another day. He managed to get into his shed where he was breeding rabbits. Killed 36 rabbits for fun. They are an awesome predator. Then one day he never came back. Met his match or some person took care of him. That’s nature. They serve a purpose, but can easily get out of control

Blueshoe

Oasis1974 wrote: »

How you spoken to him about this?

Multiple times. In one ear and out the other with him.

Glass fused light

Blueshoe wrote: »

Multiple times. In one ear and out the other with him.

At least he loves you enough to keep feeding you!

Blueshoe

Glass fused light wrote: »

At least he loves you enough to keep feeding you!

I am partial to baked headless robin redbreast

minktrapper

Richard308 wrote: »

When growing up We had a massive black tom cat. Biggest cat I’ve ever seen. He was an absolute gent. Friendly loyal. Never touched my sisters rabbit or our Yorkshire terrier. Often would bring birds, rats, mice etc. then one morning, he started leaving other Tom cats dead at our door. He was a monster. Our neighbor called another day. He managed to get into his shed where he was breeding rabbits. Killed 36 rabbits for fun. They are an awesome predator. Then one day he never came back. Met his match or some person took care of him. That’s nature. They serve a purpose, but can easily get out of control

Was he by any chance buried in a pet cemetery at some stage.

Rosahane

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Very few feral cats in Ireland, how would somebody out hunting know whether a cat was feral, or somebody's pet.

If it’s somebody's pet it will be in their garden, if it’s not in it’s own garden and has a collar and bell it’s a stray and should be given to the dog warden to find it’s owner.

Otherwise it’s feral

Eddie B

I have no problem with people keeping cats as pets,








once they are kept on their owners property, of course.

Baybay

It amazes me why cats are such a divisive subject.

So, in defence of cats:
No one objects to birds being caged as pets when clearly they’re meant to fly.
People are happy to scoop dog poop.
Rodents, snakes, turtles etc etc are all considered ok to keep around the house for our amusement.

Very few cat owners have negative opinions on the choices of others.
I love dogs but yes, I have a cat.

He is sleek, beautiful, independent & partial to the odd wild rodent. He’s nine & has brought home two birds in that time. Multiple rabbits, which is a good thing as they’re the invasive species where we are. Break your ankles going out to the clothes line if you’re not careful.
No rats but plenty of mice over the years. It’s his job, in my opinion. Spiders & flies are occasionally tempting but not butterflies. I don’t know why. Personal choice maybe.

He is a killing machine when he chooses, he wears a collar & sleeps about twenty out of twenty four hours. He’s neutered, chipped & more important to me than most of the people I know.

Grizzly 45

Be great if people neuterd their cats alot more.We wouldnt have to shoot them then for being a utter bio hazard.

Feral cats can create a terrible mess around rubbish bins, scrap lawn surfaces, kill plants, defecate, and create a terrible noise at night especially at breeding time which is constant with feral cats. If they take up residence under a house, deck, or shed they can cause a seriously bad smell.

Feral colonies can act as reservoirs of disease which can be transmitted to domestic cats as well as humans. The probability of them carrying and transmitting several diseases to humans and other cats is high. Diseases include; Toxoplasmosis (Toxoplasma gondii), Tapeworn infection (Pipylidium coninum), Salmonellosis (Salmonella spp), Camplylobacterioses (Campulobacter spp), Cat scratch fever (Bartonella henelae), Round worm (T cati), Yersiniosis (Yersinia enterocolitica). In fact cats are the most important species in the life cycle of the parasite Toxoplasmosis and if feral cats are tested a high percentage of them will test positive to Toxoplasmosis. The feral cat then is a carrier of the disease to humans; the disease often greatly reduces general well-being in humans with the effects being particularly severe to pregnant women. Toxoplasmosis is passed to humans who come into contact with infected cat faeces. If left uncontrolled feral cat numbers can increase to such a degree that they the whole colony can become unhealthy through continual breeding, interbreeding, poor nutrition, and habitual fighting. Being continually pregnant also takes a high toll on the female cat, and often leads to potentially fatal diseases. Kittens are often abandoned to fend for themselves, eventually dying if food becomes scarce.

Status

Feral cats are not a protected species in Ireland and may be controlled in order to or to prevent a health and safety hazard.

Cass

Baybay wrote: »

It amazes me why cats are such a divisive subject.

Because of the double standards in ownership laws.

There are 11 acts and 14 SIs which govern, directly or indirectly, the ownership, breeding, keeping, licensing, and public outings with dogs.

Not ONE for cats. However they do measurably more damage to fauna and birds than any dog.

I live in the country and the lady down the road from me has between 7 to 11 cats. When i say "has" i mean they use her Garden as a rally point and she continues to leave out food for them. They are not neutered as is evident by the kittens i see from time to time, and any given day, but especially night, i see at least two to four Cats crossing the roads around my house. It's nesting season for most birds and i've already found two destroyed nests and 5 dead chicks.

I cannot and won't say it's the Cats only, as i've no evidence, but i also don't dismiss the fact they are what they are and to say they are blameless is naive.

So, in defence of cats:
No one objects to birds being caged as pets when clearly they’re meant to fly.

This point is irrelevant. You're comparing the keeping of birds as pets (like Cats and Dogs) to the killing of birds by Cats that are unchecked.

People are happy to scoop dog poop.

And between cleaning out Cat trays or them digging in other people's garden to take a crap, your point is also moot.

Rodents, snakes, turtles etc etc are all considered ok to keep around the house for our amusement.

You seem to be missing the point to the fact you are listing completely non relevant points.

• Cats are kept are pets for amusement
• Cats are kept indoors (for the most part/overnight)
• Cats require cleaning of trays where they defecate.

So what has any of that to do with the topic. Can Turtle chase down and a kill a bird? Does people let their Snakes out to "play" in the Garden with no regard for where they go? Do either type of pets return in the evening? Do they respond to their owners calls/interactions?

Very few cat owners have negative opinions on the choices of others.
I love dogs but yes, I have a cat.

Completely irrelevant to the topic.

No one is saying you cannot like or dislike Cats or Dogs, just the damage Cats do is not only evident its well recorded and backed up with studies done by most countries.

He’s nine & has brought home two birds in that time.

That you've seen/know about.

Cats have two areas. Their safe area where they play, rest, defecate and sleep. The second area is their territory where they stalk, hunt, etc.

Just because you've never see him do it doesn't mean its not happening. I've never seen a baby Pigeon, but i know they exist.

No rats but plenty of mice over the years. It’s his job, in my opinion.

You're absolutely right, however Cats do not distinguish between Mice/Rats and anything else that moves

The simple fact is Dogs are regulated to nth degree. They MUST be:

• Microchipped
• Licensed
• Leashed when walking
• In some cases muzzled
• Some only allowed out with people over 18
• Regulation on breeding
• Some breeds outright banned from being owned

Then there is legislation in place for when Dogs act up in the same ways Cats do namely:

• No Dogs off leash in the countryside
• Dog owners held legally and financially responsible for any damage caused
• Dog legally allowed to be shot when worrying livestock, or suspected of worrying

I won't waste anyone's time trying to compare the pros and cons of Cats vs Dogs because that is not the topic of this thread and i see no need to try and convince anyone to like either a Dog or Cat over the other.

However Cats are allowed to roam free with no legislation or responsibility on the owners behalf for the damage or harm they cause. I am not calling for the mass destruction of any Cat found wandering. No more than i would for a Dog. I see no need to kill any animal unless it's to protect something or for food (deer, duck, pheasant, etc), but this attitude of "Cats are free spirits and should be able to roam freely" is naive, stupid and frankly destructive.

If the owners won't step up tot he plate then perhaps its time legislation was drafted to make the responsible. See how many continue to "like the free nature" when they get fines, bills for damage, etc the same as Dog owner would.

gozunda

dodderangler wrote: »

Feral or pet makes no difference. Both kill for sport.
We can’t turn around and say that that cat kills so many birds but it’s owned by someone so lets leave it alone?
Take them out.
Secondly there is plenty of feral cats about. The land I hunt on had way too many. One is fine on the farmyard. But no more.
This is always going to be a touchy subject but we need to stop making it touchy. They’re worse than foxes and mink.

Its up to the landowner tbh. I keep a couple on the farmyard where they do a very good job keeping cobtrol of vermin such as rats and mice. Amd they do a good job imo. During the plague of London the powers that be took it on themselves to remove large numbers of cats and the rat population exploded making the plague outbreak even worse. Tbh I've never seen ferals around here. The odd pet dumped by a motorist maybe but no truly wild ones.

gozunda

Cass wrote: »

...Cats have two areas. Their safe area where they play, rest, defecate and sleep. The second area is their territory where they stalk, hunt, etc....

Sounds pretty much like most posters here

They only other point I make in relation to your very long post is that many of the control, restrictions and licensing issues with dogs is due to the risk of physical harm dogs pose to people and livestock and the issue of dangerous dog breeds (very few cats will take on people / domestic poultry etc) and also as a physical danger on road or straying so yeah in that regard cats more or less get a free pass. Even if they get run over - the motorist nor the owner wont have issues tbh.

u140acro3xs7dm

dodderangler wrote: »

Feral or pet makes no difference. Both kill for sport.
We can’t turn around and say that that cat kills so many birds but it’s owned by someone so lets leave it alone?
Take them out.
Secondly there is plenty of feral cats about. The land I hunt on had way too many. One is fine on the farmyard. But no more.
This is always going to be a touchy subject but we need to stop making it touchy. They’re worse than foxes and mink.

I dont shoot myself, but plenty of friends do. I know they dont eat everything they kill, which mean they kill for sport - should they be taken out?

extremetaz

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Very few feral cats in Ireland, how would somebody out hunting know whether a cat was feral, or somebody's pet.

We're overrun with the f*ckin' things here - three of the neighbours are partial to feeding anything that comes to their back door. It's a f*ckin' nightmare!

Rosahane wrote: »

If it’s somebody's pet it will be in their garden, if it’s not in it’s own garden and has a collar and bell it’s a stray and should be given to the dog warden to find it’s owner.

Otherwise it’s feral

Agreed in principle - neighbourhood politics though means that I can't do much about the one's crossing my patch to get between the houses either side (barring letting the dogs out of course), not if I want to maintain good relations with them over the fences at least. More than a field away from a house though and they're fair game IMO.

Baybay wrote: »

... He’s neutered, chipped ...

That's two steps more than anyone around me seems to take, and it makes a difference. At least he won't be a problem beyond his own lifetime, and he won't have a few dozen progeny.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Be great if people neuterd their cats alot more.We wouldnt have to shoot them then for being a utter bio hazard.

This!

dodderangler

Alejandro Hundreds Puck wrote: »

I dont shoot myself, but plenty of friends do. I know they dont eat everything they kill, which mean they kill for sport - should they be taken out?

Yes. If a dog kills sheep do we not do anything because it’s a pet?
And imo a cat owner should be held responsible aswell.

u140acro3xs7dm

dodderangler wrote: »

Yes. If a dog kills sheep do we not do anything because it’s a pet?
And imo a cat owner should be held responsible aswell.

I cant wait to tell the lads this, can i just take them out there and then, or do i need to follow certain procedures?

Hoboo

Alejandro Hundreds Puck wrote: »

I cant wait to tell the lads this, can i just take them out there and then, or do i need to follow certain procedures?

I'd say the lads dread seeing you coming.

u140acro3xs7dm

Hoboo wrote: »

I'd say the lads dread seeing you coming.

They will now that I have permission to take them out. Sorry lads, killing for sport is not allowed. I now have to kill you, because you were killing other things for sport.

Grizzly 45

gozunda wrote: »

Its up to the landowner tbh. I keep a couple on the farmyard where they do a very good job keeping cobtrol of vermin such as rats and mice. Amd they do a good job imo

.

That's fine,they have a food source,IE vermin in a farm yard.Different story when they go utterly feral and then move into a area l full of game and song birds.Then you have a problem.

During the plague of London the powers that be took it on themselves to remove large numbers of cats and the rat population exploded making the plague outbreak even worse.

Wouldnt have made the blindest bit of difference apprently.It seems that Mr Rat might have been an inncoent party in all this. Looking at the historical records,it seems the bubonic plauge has alot more in common with Ebola than we realise.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2027347/Black-Death-backtrack-Dont-blame-rats-plague-spread-PEOPLE.html

Of course we could do what the Eco Fash want to do with rewilding half the countryside.Reintroduce Lynx! They are marvellous feral cat killers.:p Seeems to be they are very partial to German house and feral cats where they have been reintroduced.Ironic a bigger cat killing off its smaller relative.

shootemall

Alejandro Hundreds Puck wrote: »

I dont shoot myself, but plenty of friends do. I know they dont eat everything they kill, which mean they kill for sport - should they be taken out?

Yawn

dodderangler

Alejandro Hundreds Puck wrote: »

They will now that I have permission to take them out. Sorry lads, killing for sport is not allowed. I now have to kill you, because you were killing other things for sport.

Who d fook is this guy ?

Baybay

I have avoided this thread since my last response as it makes me a little emotional.

So.

Total species eradication is contraindicated as exemplified by Maquerie island, off the coast of Australia. I can’t link it (think wifi is weak) but it’s easily Googlable.
Base problem: humans
Possible better solution: TNR

Also, the Smithsonian in an article a few years ago, which I also can’t link says that unlike dogs, bred for purpose over thousands of years & are domesticated cats, choosing to live alongside humans themselves are considered semi domesticated.

Looking over some past posts in this thread, I think there is almost a glee in the tone when people take about eradicating cats, killing cats, shooting cats that I find hard to hear in posts about killing other animals.

Where is the conservation of all species, the biodiversity, the responsible ownership of any pet? Are the concerns for life in our hedgerows a thinly veiled excuse for killing cats when unscrupulous landowners, councils & road makers probably do at least as much damage to fauna & flora as a cat population, feral or otherwise?

TNR programmes are shown to work in areas where they’ve been put in place.
And in my opinion, rather than a cat licence (do all dog owners, responsible or otherwise, have these?) what owners should have instead is a neutering certificate. Kinder for all the cats abandoned, rather then feral in my opinion.

u140acro3xs7dm

shootemall wrote: »

Yawn

What an insightful response.

dodderangler wrote: »

Who d fook is this guy ?

I stumbled across this thread from the front page, it's hilarious. You are in a hunting forum moaning that cats kill for sport. I'm no vegan eco-warrior cyclist, i eat a lot of meat and drive a car, but this is such an ironic post - it's like the sort of sh1te Trump would come out with.