Proper Pronunciation or lah-dee-dah

storker

cdgalwegian wrote: »

It's the old Latin word for Romania, so I suppose it depends on that.

That would make it Dahkeah.

Hamsterchops

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

There’s debate around how to pronounce the letter R

We tend to say Ore or Orr.

'We' meaning North Dublin or where?

Where I Iive we mostly say Ar instead of Orr.

splashthecash

One of the GAA coaches I know for the local club, when talking to the kids comes out with "Now I want lots of energy out there today lads, you's have to try as hard as you can"

I shiver every time I hear it

"Yous" and "Yiz" is a pet peeve of mine...

Larbre34

I would never correct another adult. But I will reply and make sure I use the correct pronunciation for whatever it is at least twice.

I'm not too worried about foreign words, but the least we can do is have a crack at making them sound right.

Renault is a great example. My Grandad always drove them and it was Renawlt for him all the way, but nobody says that anymore, Renoh. We're still wrong though, its RENN-oh, not reNNoh.

However, we in Ireland and Britain say Cit-ron, whereas it is Cit-roh-ennnn (Citroën). Likewise Day-see-ah when it is properly Datch-eya (Dacia)

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

splashthecash wrote: »

One of the GAA coaches I know for the local club, when talking to the kids comes out with "Now I want lots of energy out there today lads, you's have to try as hard as you can"

I shiver every time I hear it

"Yous" and "Yiz" is a pet peeve of mine...

Then there's "ye" in other places.

I personally see nothing wrong with it. Standard English is lacking a plural you, so Irish dialects have other ways of saying that.

Brendan Bendar

splashthecash wrote: »

One of the GAA coaches I know for the local club, when talking to the kids comes out with "Now I want lots of energy out there today lads, you's have to try as hard as you can"

I shiver every time I hear it

"Yous" and "Yiz" is a pet peeve of mine...

Don’t blame you, dude.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Then there's "ye" in other places.

I personally see nothing wrong with it. Standard English is lacking a plural you, so Irish dialects have other ways of saying that.

Ye would he worth resurrecting across the English speaking world. Best option. The others, youz, yous, yiz, you guys etc. - all worse.

dxhound2005

English hasn't developed by single random people deciding what are the best and worst options. Yous and Youse are listed in lots of dictionaries, so that reflects their usage.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/yous#English

cdgalwegian

fvp4 wrote: »

Ye would he worth resurrecting across the English speaking world. Best option. The others, youz, yous, yiz, you guys etc. - all worse.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Then there's "ye" in other places.

I personally see nothing wrong with it. Standard English is lacking a plural you, so Irish dialects have other ways of saying that.

Ye is from Ye Olde English is it not? I use it all the time in emails and texts. Nothing wrong with it- in fact it's an efficient way of communicating the plural You without it being a colloqiualism. That, or y'all, which ain't never gonna happen, no sirreeeeh!

dxhound2005

cdgalwegian wrote: »

Ye is from Ye Olde English is it not? I use it all the time in emails and texts. Nothing wrong with it- in fact it's an efficient way of communicating the plural You without it being a colloqiualism. That, or y'all, which ain't never gonna happen, no sirreeeeh!

The Y in that Ye is a version of Th, so that Ye is the word The. Ye with the proper Y is related to You.

cdgalwegian

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The Y in that Ye is a version of Th, so that Ye is the word The. Ye with the proper Y is related to You.

Sound.
Just duckduckgo'd plural alternatives for "you":

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/12916/yall-youse-8-english-ways-make-you-plural.

7. Ye
When English had a plural form back in the Renaissance, this was it. It is still used in Ireland.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

The correct form is Yizzers.

cdgalwegian

cdgalwegian wrote: »

Ye is from Ye Olde English is it not? I use it all the time in emails and texts. Nothing wrong with it- in fact it's an efficient way of communicating the plural You without it being a colloqiualism. That, or y'all, which ain't never gonna happen, no sirreeeeh!

Yes. It’s part of old English that remained in Ireland.

New Home

Yous isn't too bad. I mean, the French use vous, and a v is just a y without a tail.

Hamsterchops

New Home wrote: »

Yous isn't too bad. I mean, the French use vous, and a v is just a y without a tail.

The plural of you is you.

I'm always amused by some who claim not to be able of willing to pronounce their th sound "because we're Irish" and dats d'way we speak!

They then prove this by saying boat (instead of both), true (instead of through), taught (instead of thought), but then they might say heigth instead of height, which means they can pronounce the th sound, but in the wrong word

Surely by creating a perfectly formed th sound where it doesn't belong, means that at least they can pronounce it, even if it's in the wrong place.

lawred2

Yeah heigth is very annoying alright

cdgalwegian

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The plural of you is you.

I'm always amused by some who claim not to be able of willing to pronounce their th sound "because we're Irish" and dats d'way we speak!

They then prove this by saying boat (instead of both), true (instead of through), taught (instead of thought), but then they might say heigth instead of height, which means they can pronounce the th sound, but in the wrong word

Surely by creating a perfectly formed th sound where it doesn't belong, means that at least you can pronounce it, even if it's in the wrong place.

Yeah, that's understood- it just leads to confusion when the English language no longer has a formal plural for You to distinguish it from the singular. Ye seems most acceptable as proper, though instead, contrariwise, comes across as perhaps a little low-brow, rather than high-brow/ lah-dee-dah.

Havin said dat. I'm too tick ta tink dat it's turty-tree and a turd, and dat's da troot.

Hamsterchops

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The plural of you is you.

Which is dumb , so regional dialects make up for it.

I'm always amused by some who claim not to be able of willing to pronounce their th sound "because we're Irish" and dats d'way we speak!

They then prove this by saying boat (instead of both), true (instead of through), taught (instead of thought), but then they might say heigth instead of height, which means they can pronounce the th sound, but in the wrong word

Surely by creating a perfectly formed th sound where it doesn't belong, means that at least they can pronounce it, even if it's in the wrong place.

Fun at parties are we? That’s a good party piece. I for one would listen with full attention.

cdgalwegian

cdgalwegian wrote: »

Sound.
Just duckduckgo'd plural alternatives for "you":

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/12916/yall-youse-8-english-ways-make-you-plural.

7. Ye
When English had a plural form back in the Renaissance, this was it. It is still used in Ireland.

You are both right. Ye was the plural of you and a way of spelling what is now The. As far as I know ye was pronounced like The.

KungPao

lawred2 wrote: »

Yeah heigth is very annoying alright

Nearly as bad as throath!

CaboRoig

Bonjour Trieste.

Brendan Bendar

cdgalwegian wrote: »

Yeah, that's understood- it just leads to confusion when the English language no longer has a formal plural for You to distinguish it from the singular. Ye seems most acceptable as proper, though instead, contrariwise, comes across as perhaps a little low-brow, rather than high-brow/ lah-dee-dah.

Havin said dat. I'm too tick ta tink dat it's turty-tree and a turd, and dat's da troot.

You should do the Lottho and be an authomathick winner.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The plural of you is you.

I'm always amused by some who claim not to be able of willing to pronounce their th sound "because we're Irish" and dats d'way we speak!

They then prove this by saying boat (instead of both), true (instead of through), taught (instead of thought), but then they might say heigth instead of height, which means they can pronounce the th sound, but in the wrong word

Surely by creating a perfectly formed th sound where it doesn't belong, means that at least they can pronounce it, even if it's in the wrong place.

Sounds like you're embarrassed by Irish accents. What a strange complex to have.

Hamsterchops

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Sounds like you're embarrassed by Irish accents. What a strange complex to have.

I have an Irish accent, but it doesn't prevent me from being able to say throat instead if troath.

We're talking about pronunciation here, not talking accents. Maybe you didn't read the title or post #1.

Hotblack Desiato

splashthecash wrote: »

"Now I want lots of energy out there today lads, you's have to try as hard as you can"

Inconsistent. Shouldn't it be "youse have to try as hard as youse can"

or how about

"as hard as yizzer can"

Hotblack Desiato

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

French announcements will call Aer Lingus - “Air Lang-Goose” and Dublin “doo blan” (which to be fair is closer to the native northside pronunciation anyway.)

Well we don't say "Er Fronz" and "Paree" over here, do we?

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I can hear an R sound in the French pronunciation.

They can pronounce it, they just can't spell it! :pac: (check out the last bit)

Hamsterchops

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I have an Irish accent, but it doesn't prevent me from being able to say throat instead if troath.

We're talking about pronunciation here, not talking accents. Maybe you didn't read the title or post #1.

The two are strongly linked. An accent is a form of pronunciation.

Hamsterchops

fvp4 wrote: »

The two are strongly linked. An accent is a form of pronunciation.

Many Irish people say pacific meaning specific, should I take it that it's all down to accent, or might it be pronunciation issue?

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I have an Irish accent, but it doesn't prevent me from being able to say throat instead if troath.

We're talking about pronunciation here, not talking accents. Maybe you didn't read the title or post #1.

Those two things are very closely linked.

dxhound2005

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Many Irish people say pacific meaning specific, should I take it that it's all down to accent, or might it be pronunciation issue?

It is much complained of, but I have never heard it myself. Not an Irish thing anyway. I will add another one to the explanation in this link. Bird is a version of the original word Brid.

https://stranger-collective.com/pavement-pedantry-specific-not-pacific/

Hamsterchops

Is there any point to this thread if it's all down to accents

Tree, a woody plant with a trunk, or a number?

Badly Drunk Boy

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The plural of you is you.

I'm always amused by some who claim not to be able of willing to pronounce their th sound "because we're Irish" and dats d'way we speak!

They then prove this by saying boat (instead of both), true (instead of through), taught (instead of thought), but then they might say heigth instead of height, which means they can pronounce the th sound, but in the wrong word

Are you equally appalled when English people don't pronounce the 'wh' sound? Whales = Wales? I know that it may be a quite acceptable way to pronounce it now, but it wasn't always the case.

And I don't know what you mean with your 'heigth' instead of 'height' thing. I've never witnessed that.

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Surely by creating a perfectly formed th sound where it doesn't belong, means that at least they can pronounce it, even if it's in the wrong place.

Like the way in some areas, the English don't pronounce Rs but stick them in words where there never was an R?

Because there is no 'th' sound in Irish didn't help. Even if the majority don't speak Irish anymore, there are a lot of elements from the language that have been handed down.

When Rachael Blackmore won the Grand National this year, while still on the horse she said something like "I can't believe I'm after winning!". She was misquoted in parts of the English media because they didn't understand her phraseology. I know that's not to do with pronunciation but it shows the influence that Irish had on the way we speak here.

seagull

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The Y in that Ye is a version of Th, so that Ye is the word The. Ye with the proper Y is related to You.

As you say, it's not actually a Y in that usage. It's a strange archaic letter called a thorn, which is the equivalent of th

Hamsterchops

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

Are you equally appalled when English people don't pronounce the 'wh' sound? Whales = Wales? I know that it may be a quite acceptable way to pronounce it now, but it wasn't always the case.

And I don't know what you mean with your 'heigth' instead of 'height' thing. I've never witnessed that.

Like the way in some areas, the English don't pronounce Rs but stick them in words where there never was an R?

Because there is no 'th' sound in Irish didn't help. Even if the majority don't speak Irish anymore, there are a lot of elements from the language that have been handed down.

I agree with most of what you say and I'm only mentioning mispronunciations locally as this is where I live, but yes indeed some of the mispronunciations by English people are appaling & bewildering, 'sixth' for example does not sound as it should (sict?) plus the R thing as you mentioned is very prevalent in parts of England.

The point I was making was that sometimes people who claim not to be able to pronounce the 'th' sound (for example) actually can, but they sometimes put in in the wrong words like heigth, which I would say counts mispronunciation, although I'm now told that it's accent!

dxhound2005

If I said I had Twentysix Sheep or I had Twenty Sick Sheep, you would need keen ears to pick up the difference. I wouldn't be concerned about the way people pronounce Sixth. The two standard forms are well recognised in dictionaries.

riclad

I don't expect Spanish or French people to be able to pronounce all English words perfectly as most of themmay not have studied english as a language in school
I think the irish have a higher standard to reach because we have grown up watching TV from the UK and American TV eg most programs are in English so we should be able to pronounce English words properly
It may go back to school we are given books to read
Essays to write , there's no exams regarding talking or pronunciation in English
Having an accent does not mean you don't know how to
pronounce a word
I presume French people watch most tv with French language soundtracks

Conall Cernach

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Gateaux

Fella goes into a bakery and says "Can I have one of those Black Forest Gatuxes".
The baker says "Certainly sir, but it's pronounced gat-o. Would you anything written on it?"
Yer man replies "Don't bother your bollo."

dxhound2005

riclad wrote: »

I don't expect Spanish or French people to be able to pronounce all English words perfectly as most of themmay not have studied english as a language in school
I think the irish have a higher standard to reach because we have grown up watching TV from the UK and American TV eg most programs are in English so we should be able to pronounce English words properly
It may go back to school we are given books to read
Essays to write , there's no exams regarding talking or pronunciation in English
Having an accent does not mean you don't know how to
pronounce a word
I presume French people watch most tv with French language soundtracks

Do you ever use Wanna, Gonna? Might you say Budder instead of Butter in normal speech? Could you ever have lapsed into I'm thinkin' a goin' instead of I'm thinking of going? If not you have achieved a level of perfection missing from those Oxbridge types who inhabit the BBC.

Jakey Rolling

lawred2 wrote: »

Yeah heigth is very annoying alright

Ireland is the only English speaking country where I have heard "heigth" used, and it grates on my ears every time.

Its a bit of an oddity alright - it would make sense for it to have the same ending as length, width, depth but for whatever reason the standard usage has been "height" for a couple of centuries. It is listed in some dictionaries as "dialectal variant".

Similar misplaced "th" that jump out at me are
"thread" and "threadmill" instead of "tread" (even heard in the RSA ad warning against bald tyres)
Thighland (the country normally known as Tie-land)
"Th"omas instead of Tom-ass (in this case, the Irish version would be closer to standard English)
and worst of all, "thought" instead of "taught" is inexcusable!

Hamsterchops

Jakey Rolling wrote: »

Ireland is the only English speaking country where I have heard "heigth" used, and it grates on my ears every time.

Its a bit of an oddity alright - it would make sense for it to have the same ending as length, width, depth but for whatever reason the standard usage has been "height" for a couple of centuries. It is listed in some dictionaries as "dialectal variant".

Similar misplaced "th" that jump out at me are
"thread" and "threadmill" instead of "tread" (even heard in the RSA ad warning against bald tyres)
Thighland (the country normally known as Tie-land)
"Th"omas instead of Tom-ass (in this case, the Irish version would be closer to standard English)
and worst of all, "thought" instead of "taught" is inexcusable!

You say all that, but as I've been told earlier in the thread it's all down to ones accent.

Talking of tread & thread, there was a safety awareness campaign running on the radio last year warning drivers to check the thread depth on their tyres, I kid you not.

pickarooney

somesoldiers wrote: »

The Toyota MR2 had to be renamed in France due to sounding like another French word- “MR deux”

No it didn't.

Hotblack Desiato

pickarooney wrote: »

No it didn't.

It was according to Wikipedia, which references Burton, Nigel (2015). Toyota MR2: The Complete Story. Ramsbury, Marlborough: Crowood. ISBN 9781847979322.

Kewreeuss

parmyJAHno
Not parmyZZHAHno.
Parmy like barmy.
I heard a SuperValu ad for brewSHETTah.

People on the radio who say Uz when they mean Us. The letter is S ess , like confess!!

dxhound2005

I've been saying Iz wrong all along.

Jakey Rolling

Kewreeuss wrote: »

People on the radio who say Uz when they mean Us. The letter is S ess , like confess!!

And its Auld Lang Syne, not Zyne as we hear belted out every New Year's Eve.
That's a pretty worldwide mistake though, even heard frequently in Scotland

Kewreeuss

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I've been saying Iz wrong all along.

You forgot was too:)

moceri

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Gateaux

Bolleaux

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

Because there is no 'th' sound in Irish didn't help. Even if the majority don't speak Irish anymore, there are a lot of elements from the language that have been handed down.

When Rachael Blackmore won the Grand National this year, while still on the horse she said something like "I can't believe I'm after winning!". She was misquoted in parts of the English media because they didn't understand her phraseology. I know that's not to do with pronunciation but it shows the influence that Irish had on the way we speak here.

There are loads of examples of this.

"Give out" to mean scold or complain.

"Does be" to suggest a habitual action.

They're generally not understood by foreigners.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

somesoldiers wrote: »

The Toyota MR2 had to be renamed in France due to sounding like another French word- “MR deux”

There's a common claim that the Chevrolet Nova was renamed in Mexico because it sounded like "no va"- doesn't go.

However, it's utter nonsense. The Nova was sold in Mexico (And Venezuela) under its original name.

dxhound2005

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

There are loads of examples of this.

"Give out" to mean scold or complain.

"Does be" to suggest a habitual action.

They're generally not understood by foreigners.

This is from an American song:

Oh, and she never gives out and she never gives in
She just changes her mind…