Pep or Klopp?

rob316

Now that Klopp won the CL trophy people are finally realizing what most of us knew this guy is one of the best if not the best in the world.

What Pep has done even with the level of resources is outstanding. 198 points over the 2 seasons, they destroy teams in a surgical passing game, with devastating accuracy. An absolute point accumulating machine. This season even more impressive, 2 cups and getting over the line in league against huge pressure from Liverpool. A stain on him from his poor CL form though since his Barca days.

Klopp has built a midtable side up over the last 3 seasons into a top European side again and was desperately unlucky to come up against this City side and not win the double. Record runner up points total. Klopp has spent big recently but he has also sold big too. There was a maturity in Klopps style this season, he found a way to dig out big results defensively and sacrificing his heavy metal approach.

Obviously Pep's trophy haul is more impressive but he has always done it at the top domestic club in the league, with huge resources. He also has built City from a higher starting point than Klopp had to.

No doubt if I wanted a manager who I could offer unlimited resources to I'd hire Pep, for anything else I'd hire Klopp.

I hope this head to head continues, cracking football its producing. I fully expect them been the top 2 next season again.

Shefwedfan

I would pick Mick McCarthy

SlickRic

Pep if you have a bottomless wallet or pit of talent. He will provide you with the best team, playing the best football, and you will win your league title.

Klopp if you have a sustainable 5 year plan (or so) for a club with a decent infrastructure and solid fanbase.

in other words, Pep would probably struggle at Liverpool (relatively speaking), and Klopp would probably struggle at City.

rob316

You get that Klopp wants to improve every player and will risk them at the highest level to show they can do it even at the cost of the team (Moreno, Karius, Mignolet).
Hugely passionate, unique and motivating character.

I watched that City doc, Pep is the same in his own way, bit of a mad man I got from it like Klopp.

frag420

Pochetino

/thread

rob316

frag420 wrote: »

Pochetino

/thread

He's another brilliant coach but needs to support from Levy or else moves on to prove he can win trophies.

Zebra3

Look at Barcelona’s points total the season before Pep took over and his firs season.

And I don’t think he spent that much money in his first summer.

Who else would’ve achieved what he achieved in 2008/09? Who would’ve had his vision and the nerve to carry it out?

Klopp record runner-up points total? Oh dear.

jpboard1

SlickRic wrote: »

Pep if you have a bottomless wallet or pit of talent. He will provide you with the best team, playing the best football, and you will win your league title.

Klopp if you have a sustainable 5 year plan (or so) for a club with a decent infrastructure and solid fanbase.

in other words, Pep would probably struggle at Liverpool (relatively speaking), and Klopp would probably struggle at City.

Can’t see how Klopp would struggle at city? He would have a better squad to work with.

GavRedKing

Its still Pep.

His levels of success throughout his career push him beyond everyone currently managing on the planet.

Until someone can match it, hes still the yard stick.

Both Pep and Klopps next jobs will be interesting but I'd be surprised if Pep isnt gone long before Klopp.

Seve OB

Zebra3 wrote: »

Klopp record runner-up points total? Oh dear.

what you mean by that?

Harry Palmr

Guardiola if you have the best of everything and can dominate a given market (see Barca, Bayern, Man City. Juve or PSG next then)

Klopp - for EVERY OTHER CLUB IN THE WORLD

dfx-

Guardiola. He is as much a guarantee of a league title as you can get, perhaps even for the weaker but still filthily rich Premier League teams outside the top 6.

Jurgen The German

Both are obviously excellent coaches and excellent man managers. Klopps in game management isn't as astute as Peps but Pep has consistently inherited heavy weight squads and only had to make relatively minor tweaks to the personnel at his disposal. Klopp has built the current liverpool squad through a mixture of substantial investment and shrewd acquisitions of raw talent and in house youth.

All things being equal ie both managers starting from the same base line and with the same funds at their disposal it would have to be Klopp for me although I dont agree with the OP overselling LFC's position when he took over. Everton, West Ham, Southampton and the like are consistent mid table teams, LFC had finished what, 2nd and 5th in the previous two seasons before Klopp came in and were 9th or 10th iirc when Rodgers got the boot. Thats not a mid table team and if a rival supporter made that kind of claim they'd be rightly ridiculed.

Still, what Klopp had achieved to date can only be admired.

GLaDOS

Guardiola is pretty much guaranteed and instant success, so it's hard to put Klopp ahead of him. His approach in Europe could be criticised in recent years I suppose.

That said, Klopp has now taken two traditionally big teams who were in the doldrums big time when he took over and turned them into serious forces both domestically and in Europe. In both cases he brought home major honours. It's a hell of an achievement.

gimli2112

Saw Pep interviewed recently and was impressed how passionately he spoke about the game, he really loves it and is obviously very driven. Klopp seems very similar in that regard. His touchline (and sometime on the pitch incursions) will attest to that. Hard to be critical of either of them at the moment.

TitianGerm

dfx- wrote: »

Guardiola. He is as much a guarantee of a league title as you can get, perhaps even for the weaker but still filthily rich Premier League teams outside the top 6.

If you put him into United now he wouldn't win the league. There's to many problems behind the scenes. It be interesting to see how'd he do there though to see how good he is actually or at Arsenal (big teams but underperforming and not the big dog in the league).

Seve OB

TitianGerm wrote: »

If you put him into United now he wouldn't win the league. There's to many problems behind the scenes. It be interesting to see how'd he do there though to see how good he is actually or at Arsenal (big teams but underperforming and not the big dog in the league).

that's actually an interesting point
I think Klopp would stand a better chance of taking the current united team to the next level because he comes across to me as a better man manager. seems to embrace the club, the players etc more than anything else first then builds from there. I think that's what the current united team needs (as well as a kick in the hole)
pep is a better tactician, more clinical when it comes to the football stuff, possibly spots the better talent (but Klopp IMO seems to get the best out of the lesser talented players)

Titzon Toast

Pep hasn't taken over any clubs that were languishing outside the top four of their respective leagues.
He's only ever inherited teams that already had hugely impressive squads.

I'd take Klopp all day long.

the whole year inn

Pep gutted City when he landed, there was so much dead wood and even had Navas left back in the second season at City. He spent a lot but he also got a lot of players in, he made some shrewd buys . Pep built a squad and destroyed everything in front of him , breaking records left and right.
Klopp is a fantastic manager and there is no shame to be second to Pep.

SlickRic

don't get me wrong, I think Pep is better. he is the best of this generation, and could ultimately go down as one of the top 2 or 3 ever.

but it's far more nuanced than 'every club would take Pep over Klopp'. that just isn't the case. remember, Pep only went to City after all the structure had been put in place, and it was perfect for him, including Txiki being there to lay the groundwork. it also only started to look like it does now after he was allowed to spend ludicrous amounts of money shoring up the squad, without having to sell anyone of note.

at the same time, i don't think it's as easy as 'if Klopp was given Pep's resources he'd be as successful'. Klopp seems to thrive on different things, and I think might struggle with a team of superstars who have mostly won it all.

different skillsets, even though they have a similar passion for the game.

Harry Palmr

If Guardiola had taken the City job when Mancini did it would have been about the same result I'd imagine. Only he'd still be in charge.

Liam O

Titzon Toast wrote: »

Pep hasn't taken over any clubs that were languishing outside the top four of their respective leagues.
He's only ever inherited teams that already had hugely impressive squads.

I'd take Klopp all day long.

Yeah and he brought all of those teams to record point tallies in their league. Completely blowing away all competition bar this Liverpool team in 1 season and Real Madrid once or twice. He's improved every team he's been at to the level it's had a knock on effect on the international teams in whatever country he's managing in.

GavRedKing

Liam O wrote: »

Yeah and he brought all of those teams to record point tallies in their league. Completely blowing away all competition bar this Liverpool team in 1 season and Real Madrid once or twice. He's improved every team he's been at to the level it's had a knock on effect on the international teams in whatever country he's managing in.

That wont happen in England though.

Spain and Germanys national side were made up of largely Barca and Bayern players.

Hes got two English starters in his current Man City side.

Unearthly

I'd prefer Klopp. Only a matter of time before he wins the league for them to.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Guardiola if you have the best of everything and can dominate a given market (see Barca, Bayern, Man City. Juve or PSG next then)

Klopp - for EVERY OTHER CLUB IN THE WORLD

I think Leeds fans would decline both and stick with Bielsa. If he fails, it's not because he is imperfect, but because football is!

POKERKING

GavRedKing wrote: »

That wont happen in England though.

Spain and Germanys national side were made up of largely Barca and Bayern players.

Hes got two English starters in his current Man City side.

Coincidence that england have had their best results in years since he came into the league? Genuine question. Has he influenced teams and coaches(southgate particularly) outside of city?

Also he has three starters in stones walker and sterling. Delph gets the odd game too.

In answer to OP question its horses for courses, i dont think neither would swap managers and im not sure either would be as successful as the other in their current roles.

the whole year inn

Can we get a poll added?

I've read from wise posters on here that Pep is a fraud and Klopp is a Flopp :pac:

gimli2112

RoboKlopp wrote: »

I've read from wise posters on here that Pep is a fraud and Klopp is a Flopp :pac:

This would have appeared far more insightful if you could have rhymed something with Pep.

gimli2112

gimli2112 wrote: »

This would have appeared far more insightful if you could have rhymed something with Pep.

:pac:

Harry Palmr

Spurs are much more important to the England side than City/Pep. Poch isn't a bad manager for the most part! Southgate looked like he knew what he was doing as a youth coach it should be said.

gimli2112

gimli2112 wrote: »

This would have appeared far more insightful if you could have rhymed something with Pep.

Dubstep.

Mr.H

dfx- wrote:

Guardiola. He is as much a guarantee of a league title as you can get, perhaps even for the weaker but still filthily rich Premier League teams outside the top 6.

How can you say that considering he has never been at a team that wasnt the richest (talent and money) in the country?

No proof that pep could get leeds out of the championship for example

Mr.Nice Guy

rob316 wrote: »

Klopp has built a midtable side up over the last 3 seasons into a top European side again and was desperately unlucky to come up against this City side and not win the double. Record runner up points total. Klopp has spent big recently but he has also sold big too. There was a maturity in Klopps style this season, he found a way to dig out big results defensively and sacrificing his heavy metal approach..

Luck had nothing to do with it. He had a 7 point lead going into the Etihad game which would have been 10 points had his team won the match. Even in defeat he had a 4 point lead in a two-horse race, knowing he'd never have to face the other horse again.

Klopp is a great manager and at this moment I'd rank him top of the rest. No need to exaggerate his qualities with revisionist nonsense like this.

rob316

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Luck had nothing to do with it. He had a 7 point lead going into the Etihad game which would have been 10 points had his team won the match. Even in defeat he had a 4 point lead in a two-horse race, knowing he'd never have to face the other horse again.

Christ not this scutter again.

Mr.Nice Guy

rob316 wrote: »

Christ not this scutter again.

Reminder of the table prior to the Etihad game:



As the BBC pointed out at the time, "Liverpool began 2019 with a seven-point lead at the top - no team has ever failed to win the title after heading into the new year so far ahead."

TitianGerm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Reminder of the table prior to the Etihad game:



As the BBC pointed out at the time, "Liverpool began 2019 with a seven-point lead at the top - no team has ever failed to win the title after heading into the new year so far ahead."

Is that not 6 points?

noodler

rob316 wrote: »

Christ not this scutter again.

It's actually very satisfying at this stage tbh.

97 points, Euro champs and yet a bizarre bottling narrative still being pushed by the usual few.

Turtyturd

Did someone say 6?

Mr.Nice Guy

TitianGerm wrote: »

Is that not 6 points?

That's over Tottenham who had beaten Cardiff prior to the Etihad clash.

noodler wrote:

It's actually very satisfying at this stage tbh.

97 points, Euro champs and yet a bizarre bottling narrative still being pushed by the usual few.

Challenging a "We were desperately unlucky" narrative does not equate to presenting a bottling narrative.

TitianGerm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

That's over Tottenham who had beaten Cardiff prior to the Etihad clash.

So they we're 6 points clear at the top and not 7?

noodler

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

That's over Tottenham who had beaten Cardiff prior to the Etihad clash.



Challenging a "We were desperately unlucky" narrative does not equate to presenting a bottling narrative.

"Naughty Klopp, no one to blame but yourself, you should have gotten 100+ points"

Ordinary man

What happened in klopp's last season at dortmund? They went from fighting for the title to scraping seventh place. Next manager got them back competing. Pep afaik never had a disaster season as manager

the whole year inn

noodler wrote: »

It's actually very satisfying at this stage tbh.

97 points, Euro champs and yet a bizarre bottling narrative still being pushed by the usual few.

Horse **** , nothing but respect for Klopp in this thread,you brought up that narrative.

Mr.Nice Guy

TitianGerm wrote: »

So they we're 6 points clear at the top and not 7?

The BBC quote states they began the year with a seven point lead at the top.

noodler wrote:

"Naughty Klopp, no one to blame but yourself, you should have gotten 100+ points"

Feel free to join the discussion with the grown-ups when you're ready.

Makes it even sweeter

Potential Underachiever

RoboKlopp wrote: »

I've read from wise posters on here that Pep is a fraud and Klopp is a Flopp :pac:

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Makes it even sweeter

It was an enjoyable thread and nothing but respect for both managers, you're sort of derailing it tbh.

Mr.H

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

The BBC quote states they began the year with a seven point lead at the top.

But did they begin the year with a 7 point lead or was it 6?

You could also say they were 20 points ahead because that how far fulham were behind, but it is inacurate. Firstly because they were only 6pts top of the league and secondly because i guessed 20pts

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.H wrote: »

But did they begin the year with a 7 point lead or was it 6?

You could also say they were 20 points ahead because that how far fulham were behind, but it is inacurate. Firstly because they were only 6pts top of the league and secondly because i guessed 20pts

https://twitter.com/Football__Tweet/status/1080876442777399296

The previous graphic shows the table prior to the Etihad clash - after Spurs had beaten Cardiff.

noodler

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Football__Tweet/status/1080876442777399296

The previous graphic shows the table prior to the Etihad clash - after Spurs had beaten Cardiff.

Hehe.

Harry Palmr

Ordinary man wrote: »

What happened in klopp's last season at dortmund? They went from fighting for the title to scraping seventh place. Next manager got them back competing. Pep afaik never had a disaster season as manager

Spectacular bad luck in front of goal before Christmas (outrageously poor v xg) plus two terrible transfers in Ramos and Imobile. They still finished with European football though.