Is America treating the UK like a colony?

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I think you might be confusing a dislike for 'Rule Britannia' types with xenophobia. The vast majority of British people are a grand bunch of lads. I think upwards of 200 thousand British people moved to Ireland in recent years and you'd barely notice because they integrate so well into Irish society - like we do in Britain.

Then, on the other hand, you have people posting on this very thread who are still sore about Irish independence from Britain despite having lived here for generations.

Crazy, but that's how it goes.

200,000 people from the U.K. lots would be nordies.

Del.Monte

FrancieBrady wrote: »

steddyeddy is a 'shinnerbot' now too. :D:D:D

Your point being? His posting history certainly would put him in that category.

Grayson

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I think you might be confusing a dislike for 'Rule Britannia' types with xenophobia. The vast majority of British people are a grand bunch of lads. I think upwards of 200 thousand British people moved to Ireland in recent years and you'd barely notice because they integrate so well into Irish society - like we do in Britain.

Then, on the other hand, you have people posting on this very thread who are still sore about Irish independence from Britain despite having lived here for generations.

Crazy, but that's how it goes.

You mixed up the words british and english. I don't think anyone dislikes the scottish or welsh.

Auguste Comte

Is this Russian threat thing fallout from brexit? I think most people know that Britain will end up back in the 1970's but bringing the reds under the bed thing back is bit much really.

RobMc59

Auguste Comte wrote: »

So no harm actually occurred. How many Irish fishing boats have been sunk by British submarines?

Who knows and how do you know it was a British submarine?

RustyNut

RobMc59 wrote: »

Who knows and how do you know it was a British submarine?

They admitted (eventually) it more than once.

A British submarine damaged a fishing trawler it dragged through the Irish Sea, the Ministry of Defence has confirmed.

The Karen was pulled at 10 knots after the sub snagged in its fishing nets 18 miles from Ardglass on the south-east shore of Northern Ireland in April. The trawler was badly damaged but the crew escaped unharmed.


Trawler skipper tells of 'submarine dragging incident' in Irish Sea
Read more
MoD minister Penny Mordaunt said: “The Royal Navy has now confirmed that a UK submarine was, in fact, responsible for snagging the Karen’s nets. The incident, the delay in identifying and addressing the events on that day, and their consequences are deeply regretted

Auguste Comte

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Is this Russian threat thing fallout from brexit? I think most people know that Britain will end up back in the 1970's but bringing the reds under the bed thing back is bit much really.

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/raf-forced-to-intercept-as-russian-bomber-planes-enter-irish-airspace

RustyNut

Aegir wrote: »

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/raf-forced-to-intercept-as-russian-bomber-planes-enter-irish-airspace

From your own link.

"At no time did these aircraft enter Irish sovereign airspace. The aircraft were operating in Irish controlled airspace which extends 256 nautical miles off the west coast of Ireland, at no time did the aircraft infringe Irish sovereign airspace which extends to 12 nautical miles off the Irish coast.

"There was no safety impact to civilian traffic operating in Irish controlled airspace."

An RAF spokesman said: "We can confirm that quick reaction alert Typhoon aircraft from RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Coningsby scrambled to monitor two Blackjack bombers while they were in the UK area of interest.

"At no point did the Russian aircraft enter UK territorial airspace."

steddyeddy

Del.Monte wrote: »

Your point being? His posting history certainly would put him in that category.

I generally think that most of the views of England on this thread are directed at the upper classes in England who brought about Brexit and now are destroying the country for the ordinary people of Britain. They sold them a lie about "freedom" and taking back control all the while the architects like Jacob Rees Mogg moves his hedge fund firm to Dublin, Dyson moves his businesses to Singapore and Boris Johnson writes two articles prior to Brexit one espousing the qualities of the EU and the other slating it.

Most of my friends here are ordinary English people who I have a great affection for. Brexit will destroy their economy, their futures and isolate them from Europe all because they believe in some Imperial idea of Britain.

You think I'm anti-Britain because I'm complaining that they're selling their future for some imperial fairy tail when it's actually the arch-brexiters who are anti-Britain. Previously British imperialism came at a cost to the world, now a select few are turning that imperialism against their own country.

recedite

There is no military threat to us from either Russia, the USA or GB.
Even though it might suit various vested interests to stir up some fears about one or other of them.

RobMc59

steddyeddy wrote: »

I generally think that most of the views of England on this thread are directed at the upper classes in England who brought about Brexit and now are destroying the country for the ordinary people of Britain. They sold them a lie about "freedom" and taking back control all the while the architects like Jacob Rees Mogg moves his hedge fund firm to Dublin, Dyson moves his businesses to Singapore and Boris Johnson writes two articles prior to Brexit one espousing the qualities of the EU and the other slating it.

Most of my friends here are ordinary English people who I have a great affection for. Brexit will destroy their economy, their futures and isolate them from Europe all because they believe in some Imperial idea of Britain.

You think I'm anti-Britain because I'm complaining that they're selling their future for some imperial fairy tail when it's actually the arch-brexiters who are anti-Britain. Previously British imperialism came at a cost to the world, now a select few are turning that imperialism against their own country.

I`m English and one thing brexit has shown me is how bad the political system is here.The many ruled by a few privileged elites who are only interested in themselves and certainly not the ordinary people although the "lets get on with it"brigade don`t seem able to smell the coffee-perhaps trumps comments about trade and the NHS will wake them up.

steddyeddy

RobMc59 wrote: »

I`m English and one thing brexit has shown me is how bad the political system is here.The many ruled by a few privileged elites who are only interested in themselves and certainly not the ordinary people although the "lets get on with it"brigade don`t seem able to smell the coffee-perhaps trumps comments about trade and the NHS will wake them up.

Completely agree Rob. In fact I think that the vast majority of people here are completely misrepresented by their politicians. I have met no one like Boris Johnson or Jacob Rees Mogg here. The closest was a colleague from Oxford who was very elitist and held similar views. I get angry because if you watch something like Question Time these muppets sell the public lie after lie and any attempt to challenge them results in shouting and insults.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I`m English and one thing brexit has shown me is how bad the political system is here.The many ruled by a few privileged elites who are only interested in themselves and certainly not the ordinary people although the "lets get on with it"brigade don`t seem able to smell the coffee-perhaps trumps comments about trade and the NHS will wake them up.

Would you agree that generally the 'many' have turned a blind eye to what the 'few' have done in their name over the centuries and right up to the present day?

Junkyard Tom

RobMc59 wrote: »

The many ruled by a few privileged elites who are only interested in themselves and certainly not the ordinary people

This is the human story and in no way is just a problem for English/British people. Anyone who thinks we don't have an elite in Ireland is fooling themselves. Our Taoiseach and Tánaiste, Varadker and Coveney, are private school educated and move in the equivalent of Ireland's elite circles.

steddyeddy

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

This is the human story and in no way is just a problem for English/British people. Anyone who thinks we don't have an elite in Ireland is fooling themselves. Our Taoiseach and Tiste, Varadker and Coveney, are private school educated and move in the equivalent of Ireland's elite circles.

Call me a reverse snob all you like but I find that people from privileged circles enter politics because they feel the world owes them something rather than the other way around. It's amazing that entitlement is something that working class people are accused.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Would you agree that generally the 'many' have turned a blind eye to what the 'few' have done in their name over the centuries and right up to the present day?

If you grow up in a country you see things as normal because you know no different-I see now there have been atrocities committed in the name of "British interests" but it doesn't diminish my feelings for my country,warts and all.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

If you grow up in a country you see things as normal because you know no different-I see now there have been atrocities committed in the name of "British interests" but it doesn't diminish my feelings for my country,warts and all.

Nobody asked you to 'diminish your feelings', I love my country but have many criticisms.

I would find my behaviour odd if I was on a foreign website passionately defending all comers though if I really believed we had committed atrocities abroad.
I would feel even more distinctly odd if I was a 'citizen' of that foreign country and was defending to the bitter end the actions of another country against my fellow citizens.

RobMc59

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

This is the human story and in no way is just a problem for English/British people. Anyone who thinks we don't have an elite in Ireland is fooling themselves. Our Taoiseach and Tánaiste, Varadker and Coveney, are private school educated and move in the equivalent of Ireland's elite circles.

None of those Irish politicians you mention appears to have an 18th century view of life like the English elite-ie:the rich who have a God given right to rule and the rest of us,a bunch of unpleasant peasants.

beejee

RobMc59 wrote: »

If you grow up in a country you see things as normal because you know no different-I see now there have been atrocities committed in the name of "British interests" but it doesn't diminish my feelings for my country,warts and all.

Its a can of worms to open, but there is a reason the best places in the world also happen to be the places who worked toward their own advantages. And yes, often at the expense of others. But they would have done the same thing given the opportunity. That's the world for you, since forever.

The idea that someone else from somewhere else can hold the hand out, while at the same time criticising you, has a leg to stand on is insane.

We all act in our own interests, and by eventual extension our individual countrys interests.

Don't let anyone guilt trip you about anything, and doubly so if theyre looking for something off you. Such a nonsensical notion.

"please act against your own interests" :P

Capt'n Midnight

janfebmar wrote: »

Rubbish. They did not go to Vietnam for example.

The US were on the ground from 1965 to 1973

The UK had a couple of was going on at the time.
Brunei Revolt 1962–1966
Indonesia–Malaysia confrontation 1962-1966
Dhofar Rebellion 1962–1975
Aden Emergency 1963–1967

And Northern Ireland flared up too. Besides Vietnam was a French colony.

There were also the Second and Third Cod Wars.



Blair's is regarded by some as a war criminal for following the US. Other PM's have had to resign over empty US promises.

janfebmar

RobMc59 wrote: »

I`m English and one thing brexit has shown me is how bad the political system is here.The many ruled by a few privileged elites who are only interested in themselves and certainly not the ordinary people ...

Rob, the political system is called democracy, and the alternative is worse. People can start from nothing and build themselves up and go for election and through hard work get on. Look at Mrs Thatcher, say what you like about her but she was a shopkeepers daughter, grew up over the shop, went to university and got a degree in chemistry, and eventually stood for election and eventually won three elections. She did not start off in life as a privileged elete. She was reputed to work 18 hour days and nobody could say she was only interested in herself, seeing as she put herself in grest danger.

janfebmar

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The US were on the ground from 1965 to 1973

The UK had a couple of was going on at the time.
Brunei Revolt 1962–1966
Indonesia–Malaysia confrontation 1962-1966
Dhofar Rebellion 1962–1975
Aden Emergency 1963–1967

And Northern Ireland flared up too. Besides Vietnam was a French colony.

There were also the Second and Third Cod Wars.


.

I was correcting Francis who said the British done everything the Americans asked them to do.

RobMc59

janfebmar wrote: »

Rob, the political system is called democracy, and the alternative is worse. People can start from nothing and build themselves up and go for election and through hard work get on. Look at Mrs Thatcher, say what you like about her but she was a shopkeepers daughter, grew up over the shop, went to university and got a degree in chemistry, and eventually stood for election and eventually won three elections. She did not start off in life as a privileged elete. She was reputed to work 18 hour days and nobody could say she was only interested in herself, seeing as she put herself in grest danger.

I lived through Thatcher`s rule and she was a hard hearted, cruel person.She decimated the miners for standing up for themselves so have to disagree with you on that Jan.
I understand democracy but think the brexit debacle has highlighted the failings of the British political system.

threeball

janfebmar wrote: »

Rob, the political system is called democracy, and the alternative is worse. People can start from nothing and build themselves up and go for election and through hard work get on. Look at Mrs Thatcher, say what you like about her but she was a shopkeepers daughter, grew up over the shop, went to university and got a degree in chemistry, and eventually stood for election and eventually won three elections. She did not start off in life as a privileged elete. She was reputed to work 18 hour days and nobody could say she was only interested in herself, seeing as she put herself in grest danger.

Jaysus when someone is holding up Maggie Thatcher as a role model you know their world view is pretty skewed.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nobody asked you to 'diminish your feelings', I love my country but have many criticisms.

I would find my behaviour odd if I was on a foreign website passionately defending all comers though if I really believed we had committed atrocities abroad.
I would feel even more distinctly odd if I was a 'citizen' of that foreign country and was defending to the bitter end the actions of another country against my fellow citizens.

I did`nt join boards to be confrontational,I have genuine feelings and interest in Ireland. Apart from my wife being Irish I`m Irish descent so sometimes it`s difficult-I do believe I have admitted the British have done some pretty bad things in the past but as I said I care about my Country and I would expect anyone to be exactly the same about their Country.

janfebmar

threeball wrote: »

Jaysus when someone is holding up Maggie Thatcher as a role model you know their world view is pretty skewed.

If she was a role model or not is not the point: I mentioned her as an example of someone from a humble background, living above the shop, who rose to the top in British politics. You may or may not agree with her politics, that was not the point. Rob was giving out about the political system saying it was ruled by privileged elites. Anyone can enter politics and work their way up and stand for election.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

If she was a role model or not is not the point: I mentioned her as an example of someone from a humble background, living above the shop, who rose to the top in British politics. You may or may not agree with her politics, that was not the point. Rob was giving out about the political system saying it was ruled by privileged elites. Anyone can enter politics and work their way up and stand for election.

Buying into British mythmaking again jan, I see. :rolleyes:

The biggest myth about Margaret Thatcher was that her origins were in any way ordinary – as in her ‘ordinary’ background and upbringing, or that she was an ‘ordinary’ housewife who had somehow ended up at the top of politics. She was really from a middle-class background, and was the product of privilege, bankrolled by a millionaire.

Margaret Hilda Roberts came from a very comfortable background. Her father Alfred was not a simple shopkeeper: in fact, he owned several shops in Grantham, which he sold in 1958, reportedly for the equivalent of over £1 million. He served at various times as president of the Chamber of Trade, President of Rotary, a director of the Grantham Building Society, a director of the Trustee Savings Bank, chairman of the local National Savings Movement, a governor of the Kings School and Kesteven and Grantham Girls School (Margaret’s alma mater) and (surprisingly) local chairman of the Workers’ Educational Association, as well as a Methodist lay preacher.

This set of offices, and especially his service as an Alderman and Mayor of Grantham, show a driven and ambitious individual, who acquired wealth and position constantly. None of which is reprehensible: but does give the lie to the myth of her humble origins which Margaret Thatcher attached to herself for political advantage.

janfebmar

RobMc59 wrote: »

I do believe I have admitted the British have done some pretty bad things in the past

I think you will find when you look at history there was often 2 sides to the story, and if someone is making you feel bad about what some others may have done in the distant past, they are probably just telling you one side of the story.

steddyeddy

Who is the best current politician in Britain in everyone's opinion?

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Buying into British mythmaking again jan, I see. :rolleyes:

Thatcher's father left school at 13 and worked his way up through life to eventually own 2 small shops, in which he worked until he retired aged 66. They were sold for only £26,000. Big deal. They lived above the shop. Thatcher's parents were not poor but Thatcher was not a privileged elite either. She went to university and got a science degree. She rose to the top of UK politics because of her ability and hard work, not because of her background.

threeball

janfebmar wrote: »

If she was a role model or not is not the point: I mentioned her as an example of someone from a humble background, living above the shop, who rose to the top in British politics. You may or may not agree with her politics, that was not the point. Rob was giving out about the political system saying it was ruled by privileged elites. Anyone can enter politics and work their way up and stand for election.

As Francie pointed out she was neither humble in upbringing or outlook. She came from money and rose to the top through ruthless ambition. The same ruthlessness carried right through her premiership and left a trail of destruction for all but the British elite. Ask the Welsh miners, Catholics of northern Ireland or the shipyard workers of numerous British ports if they thought the British elite have served them well. Thatcher was very much one of them

RobMc59

steddyeddy wrote: »

Who is the best current politician in Britain in everyone's opinion?

I think Dominic Grieve speaks sense.

janfebmar

threeball wrote: »

As Francie pointed out she was neither humble in upbringing or outlook. She came from money and rose to the top through ruthless ambition. The same ruthlessness carried right through her premiership and left a trail of destruction for all but the British elite. Ask the Welsh miners, Catholics of northern Ireland or the shipyard workers of numerous British ports if they thought the British elite have served them well. Thatcher was very much one of them

Living above a humble shop is not coming from money. And a lot of Catholics in Northern Ireland thought a lot of her, for example the ones in the security forces for standing up to the pIRA.

janfebmar

steddyeddy wrote: »

Who is the best current politician in Britain in everyone's opinion?

Edgar Graham was a rising young politician, very bright and talented, who some think would have made an excellent Prime Minister, had the pIRA not murdered him during the troubles.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Thatcher's father left school at 13 and worked his way up through life to eventually own 2 small shops, in which he worked until he retired aged 66. They were sold for only £26,000. Big deal. They lived above the shop. Thatcher's parents were not poor but Thatcher was not a privileged elite either. She went to university and got a science degree. She rose to the top of UK politics because of her ability and hard work, not because of her background.

In Britain you buy your way into the elite. Denis Thatcher was a millionaire. Her father was a a wealthy man in 1958 by anyone's standards.
Margaret became a PM after an Oxford education in 1959.

Please stop propounding the myth that the woman essentially created herself. It was coined to fool and obviously has.

janfebmar

N

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Her father was a a wealthy man.

Not that wealthy, he lived above his small shop. Margaret Thatcher made her own way with her science degree. If she came from a very well off back ground instead, she probably would still have made her way to the top of UK politics. Not everyone goes to private school , and some people get scholarships.

_blaaz

janfebmar wrote: »

Not that wealthy, he lived above his small shop. Margaret Thatcher made her own way with her science degree. If she came from a very well off back ground instead, she probably would still have made her way to the top of UK politics.

Surely hes alot wealthier than the genrations of northern england thatcher policies damned to enternal poverty

IE those who had so little to lose,voted for brexit enmass.....she fcuking hated there last time i travelled through there

Spanish Eyes

RobMc59 wrote: »

I think Dominic Grieve speaks sense.

I agree with you there, but I'd say he is on the cards for de selection, if it hasn't happened already.

janfebmar

_blaaz wrote: »

Surely hes alot wealthier than the genrations of northern england thatcher policies damned to enternal poverty

And do you not think Haughey was a lot wealthier than even Thatcher was?

_blaaz

janfebmar wrote: »

And do you not think Haughey was a lot wealthier than even Thatcher was?

Meh likes of him.need shot for being corrupt


(Somewhat fail.to see relevence of haugheys wealth on thatcher improvrising northern england???)

janfebmar

The likes of Varadker and Coveny and Barry and Bruton and numerous Irish politicians came or come from comfortable backgrounds. Even the teachers in the Dail are set up for life, with a job kept open for them and a comfortable secure pension.

FrancieBrady

_blaaz wrote: »

Surely hes alot wealthier than the genrations of northern england thatcher policies damned to enternal poverty

IE those who had so little to lose,voted for brexit enmass.....she fcuking hated there last time i travelled through there

Then she had her education bankrolled by a multimillionaire.

_blaaz

janfebmar wrote: »

The likes of Varadker and Coveny and Barry and Bruton and numerous Irish politicians came or come from comfortable backgrounds. Even the teachers in the Sail are set up for life, with a job kept open for them and a comfortable secure pension.

Ok

This excuses thatcher from.destroying british econimy,how??

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Then she had her education bankrolled by a multimillionaire.

Link?

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

Edgar Graham was a rising young politician, very bright and talented, who some think would have made an excellent Prime Minister, had the pIRA not murdered him during the troubles.

Not exactly a current politician Jan....

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Link?

Both socially and financially, the marriage was highly advantageous to Margaret Thatcher, and became the cornerstone of her career. As Denis was still busy with Atlas, he was able to provide his wife with the financial security that allowed her to give up her work as a chemist to read for the Bar.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/politics-obituaries/1434154/Sir-Denis-Thatcher-Bt.html

Blinky Plebum

janfebmar wrote: »

N

Not that wealthy, he lived above his small shop. Margaret Thatcher made her own way with her science degree. If she came from a very well off back ground instead, she probably would still have made her way to the top of UK politics. Not everyone goes to private school , and some people get scholarships.

The way you're going on you'd think living above a shop was like being on the breadline.

Junkyard Tom

FrancieBrady wrote: »

...

_blaaz wrote: »

...

steddyeddy wrote: »

...

Any chance we could just ignore you-know-who lads? Please?

threeball

_blaaz wrote: »

Surely hes alot wealthier than the genrations of northern england thatcher policies damned to enternal poverty

IE those who had so little to lose,voted for brexit enmass.....she fcuking hated there last time i travelled through there

The irony being that she would be a staunch brexiteer if still around. The underclass in Britain don't help themselves when it comes to politics.

Capt'n Midnight

janfebmar wrote: »

Thatcher's father left school at 13 and worked his way up through life to eventually own 2 small shops, in which he worked until he retired aged 66. They were sold for only £26,000. Big deal. They lived above the shop. Thatcher's parents were not poor but Thatcher was not a privileged elite either. She went to university and got a science degree. She rose to the top of UK politics because of her ability and hard work, not because of her background.

I comment I heard about her long time ago went something like
"The first Prime Minister to have benefited from state sponsored education and the one to have tried hardest to destroy it"


Working class secondary schools back in the day called secondary moderns. BBC doc a while back said that only one in 40,000 or thereabouts went on to third level.