Issue with newly purchased car

olestoepoke

Hi guys, I may have been duped by a dealer when buying a Japanese import. Bought it in cork, travelled from Dublin to buy it so asked all the right questions before I made the trip. Looked the car over and it drove and looked great. Got it home and noticed that the paint on the back bumper was slightly off(hate myself for not noticing this in Cork) Further investigation under the car and it was most definitely crashed and repaired. The mileage on the odometer was low for the cars age so now Im thinking it was clocked. I have made the proper reports to the CCPC and there is an investigation under way. There are various websites where you can pay for the vehicles history including an auction report showing the condition and mileage before the car left Japan. Does anybody have any experience with these sites or know which one is the most reputable?
Thanks guys

Toyotafanboi

Moved out from old thread

A lot of Japanese cars are genuinely low mileage compared to a similarly aged Irish car, so your mileage may be genuine. I couldn't recommend a site to check, but for the moment i'd be inclined to treat the mileage speculation and body repairs as separate issues. I couldn't recommend a site to check it on if it's a fresh import but those type of sites do exist.

Is it a fresh import where you are the first Irish owner? If not, Cartell/ Motorcheck etc might be able to give you some previous Irish mileages to reference against.

There is nothing illegal about selling an accident damaged and repaired car (once it hasn't been a structural Cat A or B write off), unfortunately for you. If they are aware that it has been in an accident and repaired, they have to inform you if you ask about it's history. This will be extremely hard to fight after that fact and will in all reality be fruitless unless you can prove that the car was Cat A or B and shouldn't have been returned to the road. The car could be crashed and repaired and be 100% safe for use on the roads, but should/ could have been priced according to it's provenance if the facts were cleared up before purchase.

osarusan

Just on the mileage, I've lived in Japan and owned cars there, and the mileage put on them is often incredibly low compared to Ireland. I once bought a 9 year old car with approx 30,000km on it.

People use the trains for everything and the car might only be used once or twice a week for shopping runs and so on.

Cannot comment on your specific case obviously, but low mileage for a Japanese import sounds quite usual to me.

Kristopherus

OP, did you get a guarantee with the car & what did it cover?

olestoepoke

Kristopherus wrote: »

OP, did you get a guarantee with the car & what did it cover?

No guarantee no

olestoepoke

osarusan wrote: »

Just on the mileage, I've lived in Japan and owned cars there, and the mileage put on them is often incredibly low compared to Ireland. I once bought a 9 year old car with approx 30,000km on it.

People use the trains for everything and the car might only be used once or twice a week for shopping runs and so on.

Cannot comment on your specific case obviously, but low mileage for a Japanese import sounds quite usual to me.

Thanks for that, I actually read the same online, I still want to check for sure though. My thinking is if the guy was dishonest enough to sell a crashed and repaired car then can I trust the mileage?

sneaklem

What dealer in Cork? I work in the motor trade in cork and can verify if he is an honest seller or cowboy?

millington

Did you get the auction grade sheet with the car?

I used one of those history checks in Japan before and it brought up 3 previous auction sheets.

Midnight_EG

Did you contact the dealer about this instead of venting online?

_Brian

The dealer can only inform you if they knew.
If they imported the car and passed it on “as is” with no intention to defraud then I can’t see they did anything wrong.

Wailin

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Did you contact the dealer about this instead of venting online?

Relax there, he's asking for advice.

olestoepoke

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Did you contact the dealer about this instead of venting online?

Hya, yeah contacted the dealer straight away but he refuses to answer my calls or texts. I'm on this thread looking for advice on how to resolve the situation. I use Boards.ie quite a bit, has helped me out on numerous occasions over the year, a fantastic resource as most people on here don't have an invested interests. But if I came across as "venting" this was not my intention. Thanks for your input

olestoepoke

sneaklem wrote: »

What dealer in Cork? I work in the motor trade in cork and can verify if he is an honest seller or cowboy?

Not sure I'm allowed to mention the garage as per the rules of this site sorry

olestoepoke

millington wrote: »

Did you get the auction grade sheet with the car?

I used one of those history checks in Japan before and it brought up 3 previous auction sheets.

Hya, thanks for your time. No I didn't get anything except a receipt, the act and the VRT cert. I did some research and found a site that will get copies of the Japanese registration cert and the auction sheet, some even give u pics of the car at auction. It cost me 30 euro and had great reviews. If this comes back with evidence of higher miles or crash damage ill have evidence to move forward. Thanks again

olestoepoke

_Brian wrote: »

The dealer can only inform you if they knew.
If they imported the car and passed it on “as is” with no intention to defraud then I can’t see they did anything wrong.

Hya, the car was imported at the end of February this year. So for four months this garage had the car after its import. One owner, the garage that imported it, never taxed or insured. So if there is evidence that the odometer was tampered with or the car arrived in Ireland crashed and was fixed. The garage fixed the car up sold it on without any mention of previous crash damage. Then they did indeed "do something wrong" and it is punishable by law. The report I ordered will show the KM and state the car was in when it arrived in Ireland as well as any accident reports from Japan.

sneaklem

you can pm me the garage name.

olestoepoke

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Moved out from old thread

A lot of Japanese cars are genuinely low mileage compared to a similarly aged Irish car, so your mileage may be genuine. I couldn't recommend a site to check, but for the moment i'd be inclined to treat the mileage speculation and body repairs as separate issues. I couldn't recommend a site to check it on if it's a fresh import but those type of sites do exist.

Is it a fresh import where you are the first Irish owner? If not, Cartell/ Motorcheck etc might be able to give you some previous Irish mileages to reference against.

There is nothing illegal about selling an accident damaged and repaired car (once it hasn't been a structural Cat A or B write off), unfortunately for you. If they are aware that it has been in an accident and repaired, they have to inform you if you ask about it's history. This will be extremely hard to fight after that fact and will in all reality be fruitless unless you can prove that the car was Cat A or B and shouldn't have been returned to the road. The car could be crashed and repaired and be 100% safe for use on the roads, but should/ could have been priced according to it's provenance if the facts were cleared up before purchase.

Thank you, great points made here. I have texts where I asked the seller was the car ever crashed, is that the original engine? are there any dents scratches or issues with the car. As I said I travelled all the way from Dublin to Cork so I asked a lot of questions. His replies were the no issues, never crashed pristine condition etc

colm_mcm

If you google the chassis number it will sometimes show you the auction entry.

olestoepoke

colm_mcm wrote: »

If you google the chassis number it will sometimes show you the auction entry.

Thank you

mickdw

If you do find evidence of clocking, I think you have a case against dealer regardless of where it happened.
If it is was possible for you to discover clocking, it is deemed that a motor dealer, who is assumed to be suitably knowledgeable in his field knew it was clocked.

cpoh1

Are you happy with the car? As in the overall condition and the price you paid for it? Maybe you can reach an agreement with the dealer to tidy up the repair. You need to be clear what you want here - return the car and full refund, partial refund/discount or improved repair.

Its a lot of hassle if overall you are happy with the car.

olestoepoke

cpoh1 wrote: »

Are you happy with the car? As in the overall condition and the price you paid for it? Maybe you can reach an agreement with the dealer to tidy up the repair. You need to be clear what you want here - return the car and full refund, partial refund/discount or improved repair.

Its a lot of hassle if overall you are happy with the car.

Hya, thanks for your input. I would be happy with the car overall, the repairs are not ideal but I could live with them. However, I paid for a cartel report from Japan yesterday and it arrived today. Our worse fear, the car that we bought with 36,000 Km does indeed have over 350,000Km on it. I'll attach a screenshot of the report. We are devastated, Phoned the garage this morning and they denied selling it to me, said that they sold it to the guy who sold it to me and he has nothing to do with them. He advertises with pics of cars outside this garage, the VRT receipt has this garage as the previous owner. I picked the car up in the grounds of this garage. What the hell is going on?

olestoepoke

Does anyone know how or where I can get a copy of the Auction sheet? It was imported into Dublin. At least this would show if the odometer was tampered with in Japan or in Ireland.

Toyotafanboi

Jaysis, that's bad. You have black and white proof now though.

Did you get a receipt for the car and if so is it on headed or stamped paper? If so, you've very good grounds to pursue this IMO.

Is the mileage recorded to the INMR at VRT inspection? That might be a help.

olestoepoke

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Jaysis, that's bad. You have black and white proof now though.

Did you get a receipt for the car and if so is it on headed or stamped paper? If so, you've very good grounds to pursue this IMO.

Is the mileage recorded to the INMR at VRT inspection? That might be a help.

Hya, yes have a receipt but it does not have the garage in the heading. It's a pretty ****e receipt to be honest, bad mistake on my part I know. I have a VRT receipt with the garages name and signature. They are officially the previous owners. The car was imported in February and within a week I think it is it is brought to the VRT office. The odometer reading there was 35, 812km. It was not till mid April that the NCT inspection was carried out and the Odometer reading stated 35,920km.
It seems the best evidence would be some kind of customs document or auction sheet that shows the mileage when it was imported. If it was "clocked" in Japan then I'm probably screwed. Unless the garage is liable in some way for not checking the vehicle history before importing it

bazz26

Get onto this crowd OP for advice:

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/cars/car-clocking/

I'd also be engaging a solicitor since it sounds like you are dealing with slimey characters. The garage cannot just claim ignorance, as motor traders they are deemed to be more experts in this matter than you the consumer.

olestoepoke

bazz26 wrote: »

Get onto this crowd OP for advice:

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/cars/car-clocking/

I'd also be engaging a solicitor since it sounds like you are dealing with slimey characters. The garage cannot just claim ignorance, as motor traders they are deemed to be more experts in this matter than you the consumer.

Hya, yeah I sent those guys an e-mail. They requested all the evidence and are gonna investigate. Thanks

Del2005

olestoepoke wrote: »

Hya, thanks for your input. I would be happy with the car overall, the repairs are not ideal but I could live with them. However, I paid for a cartel report from Japan yesterday and it arrived today. Our worse fear, the car that we bought with 36,000 Km does indeed have over 350,000Km on it. I'll attach a screenshot of the report. We are devastated, Phoned the garage this morning and they denied selling it to me, said that they sold it to the guy who sold it to me and he has nothing to do with them. He advertises with pics of cars outside this garage, the VRT receipt has this garage as the previous owner. I picked the car up in the grounds of this garage. What the hell is going on?

Did you buy it from the garage premises?

Edit. I meant did you sign the VLC in the office of the garage?

Wow, that sounds like an absolute nightmare. Hope it works out for you pal.

olestoepoke

Del2005 wrote: »

Did you buy it from the garage premises?

Edit. I meant did you sign the VLC in the office of the garage?

No, I foolishly bought it from an ad on DoneDeal. sounds like this guy is pretending to be a part of the garage. The garage said they know him and they sell cars to him regularly. The VRT cert has the garage as the owners of the car, this is what fooled me. Silly mistakes on my part I know

millington

olestoepoke wrote: »

Hya, thanks for your input. I would be happy with the car overall, the repairs are not ideal but I could live with them. However, I paid for a cartel report from Japan yesterday and it arrived today. Our worse fear, the car that we bought with 36,000 Km does indeed have over 350,000Km on it. I'll attach a screenshot of the report. We are devastated, Phoned the garage this morning and they denied selling it to me, said that they sold it to the guy who sold it to me and he has nothing to do with them. He advertises with pics of cars outside this garage, the VRT receipt has this garage as the previous owner. I picked the car up in the grounds of this garage. What the hell is going on?

Holy moly thats unreal

https://japancarhistorycheck.com/

I used this site before and got the auction sheet off them

Toyotafanboi

Have you still got the phone number of the person you bought it off of? If you google it do any other ads come up?

How long ago did you buy the car? It's hardly still listed is it?

olestoepoke

millington wrote: »

Holy moly thats unreal

https://japancarhistorycheck.com/

I used this site before and got the auction sheet off them

Thanks for that

olestoepoke

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Have you still got the phone number of the person you bought it off of? If you google it do any other ads come up?

How long ago did you buy the car? It's hardly still listed is it?

This guy still has several cars for sale on DoneDeal as we speak. He won't answer the phone to me. I can see he is reading my WhatsApp messages from the blue correct signs. Ive been a week calling and texting and he refuses to answer or reply.

Toyotafanboi

I'd be screen grabbing any adverts that have that phone number to re-enforce any case that he is a trader and not a private individual.

.......

If the guy is advertising cars on the grounds of the garage and then doing the actual transaction there too - both him and the garage will have a hard time denying that they are connected in some way.

Screen shot all images where he is advertising as though he works for the garage.

Do some searching online for his name and associations. Google his phone number. Google his name and the garage phone number etc...

Might be an idea to get this thread deleted, in case he gets wind of it and starts taking steps to cover his ar$e.

Just an idea.

Isambard

350000km is huge. It should be possible to look at the condition of the car and verify that is or isn't a typo. Wear on the pedals, the steering wheel, the carpets and the seats would be good place to look. A car at 36000 km will have nearly no wear in those areas.

feeling your pain

Bruthal

Isambard wrote: »

350000km is huge. It should be possible to look at the condition of the car and verify that is or isn't a typo. Wear on the pedals, the steering wheel, the carpets and the seats would be good place to look. A car at 36000 km will have nearly no wear in those areas.

feeling your pain

A second previous reading is in the report from a year earlier, showing it is not a typo by the look of it.

olestoepoke

Isambard wrote: »

350000km is huge. It should be possible to look at the condition of the car and verify that is or isn't a typo. Wear on the pedals, the steering wheel, the carpets and the seats would be good place to look. A car at 36000 km will have nearly no wear in those areas.

feeling your pain

He put new mats in new pedals, and a steering wheel cover, I'm an idiot for not lifting the steering wheel cover off as the wheel is well worn

Isambard

i've an awful feeling you're not going to get any redress. However, fitting those items is a sort of admission he knew of the cars condition and tried to hide it.

at9qu5vp0wcix7

Get a legal professional on your side and gather as much info as you can before it is cleaned off the internet.

No Bills

Is there any chance that the 350000 odometer reading actually means 35,000 and the extra zeros are like decimal places? I hope so.

Bruthal

No Bills wrote: »

Is there any chance that the 350000 odometer reading actually means 35,000 and the extra zeros are like decimal places? I hope so.

The report appears to show 276100 odometer reading from the previous year.

olestoepoke

No Bills wrote: »

Is there any chance that the 350000 odometer reading actually means 35,000 and the extra zeros are like decimal places? I hope so.

I'd be delighted with that but seems to be legit. Ive ordered the auction sheet from the link sent to me earlier and they said give it a few days. That will show if it was imported by the garage with those miles or they bought it already clocked in Japan. Either way it was clocked down a massive amount. Probably better for me if it was imported with those miles and clocked here in Ireland. This is probably the only hope Ill have of getting my money back. The issue for me now is that I bought the car for my wife and kids. It's not what I thought it was. Not even sure its safe now with all those miles

No Bills

Bruthal wrote: »

The report appears to show 276100 odometer reading from the previous year.

Going by what others have said in this thread, adding 73,900 km in 1 year seems very high for a car in Japan.
Could it be 27,610 to 35,000 (7,390 km)?

bazz26

It could easily have been a taxi.

Del2005

Nala Quaint Dude wrote: »

Get a legal professional on your side and gather as much info as you can before it is cleaned off the internet.

Unfortunately in this country getting money from people who don't want to give it to you is next to impossible, people selling dodgy motors know this. See the trouble that banks have getting the collateral from mortgages and have a look in the accommodation forum to see what happens when people destroy a house after living rent free for 2 years.

It's an expensive lesson for the OP but considering how a lot of criminals launder their money it could get worse for them and it definitely won't get better.

olestoepoke

bazz26 wrote: »

It could easily have been a taxi.

Definitely looking that way unfortunately for me

olestoepoke

No Bills wrote: »

Going by what others have said in this thread, adding 73,900 km in 1 year seems very high for a car in Japan.
Could it be 27,610 to 35,000 (7,390 km)?

Jaysus I hope you are right, as Ive said I could live with the damage and repairs if the mileage was true.

olestoepoke

Heres the full report if anyone interested