Open racism is ok if it's for the progressive cause.

Sleeper12

Geuze wrote: »

The vast majority of AS are bogus.

They are illegal immigrants.

I tell you what, we seem to be throwing money trying to educated some Irish people here is schools & collage.


The vast majority may well turn out to be bogus. I don't know that but lets run with that. Bogus or not they are asylum seekers. They come to Ireland looking for asylum. They are not illegal. They are illegal if they stay after their asylum has been refused, though they usually get deported then anyway. If they stay after their asylum has been refused then they are no longer asylum seekers. They then become illegals. The person in the link provided is an asylum seeker & not an illegal.


I left school at 14 in 1982 & we covered all of this. It's not rocket science

SirGerryAdams

Probably going to be an unpopular opinion but I think the collapse of religion has led to this kind of thing.

Religion gave people a sense of belonging, a common belief with lots of other people, it formed part of your identity.

Now there is a void and people need to be identified and feel like they belong somewhere else. There really is a massive amount of people who jump at any chance to go out holding a banner.

s7ryf3925pivug

I don't encounter these anti-Catholic Islam apologists. Anti religion sure, I'm anti-religion myself, and you encounter more extremism in Islam than in Catholicism these days. However the catholic church retains an outrageous level of influence in Ireland, especially in education, so that really is something to shout about.

Trump protests are a little fashionable or something, as much as a disaster that he is. British people protesting changes to abortion laws he is involved with seems a little bit uninformed or hypocritical when the laws in NI are so restrictive.

suicide_circus

mmmmm lovely white male privilage, feels so good

SirGerryAdams

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

That was dumb, indeed. The reason why Irish people support Palestine is precisely because we have a history that’s not quite the same as many other Western European nations. As the Palestinian ambassador recently opined. Northern Irish people see the settlements there as similar to the Irish plantations.

I’m relatively pro Palestinian but if you are going to import American **** then I’m out of it. Palestinians can take their cause to the US and good luck with that one.

The irish situation is commonly referred to be Palestine and Irish people alike but it's in no way the same.

Sinn Fein had a goal and would stop killing if they got Ireland back.

Ireland is also nothing like the middle east where territories constantly were constantly taken over by different groups/religions and all those relgious nutters claim to this day they belong on that land.

The Hamas charter states that even if they get what they want, they won't stop sending missiles to Israel and they won't ever recognise them as a country. And as long as Hamas are in power there backed by Palestineans, I can't back Palestine.

The whole Irish view of Palestine comes about because Palestine fluttered their eyelashes at us and told us we're heros and that we're an inspiration. This made the Irish feel good so they couldn't not say good things back.

Sleeper12

Jay Short Barber wrote: »

British people protesting changes to abortion laws he is involved with seems a little bit uninformed or hypocritical when the laws in NI are so restrictive.

Totally agree with this. Problem is mainland citizens know very little about Northern Ireland. In fact Brexit has shown how little UK politicians know about Northern Ireland. Even ministers have shown ignorance.

SirGerryAdams

Calhoun wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEtpyB0GMVc - that white privilege though.

Everyone's an activist these days! It's nothing to do with helping other people either, it's all ego and a feeling of self worth because they have nothing else going on in their lives.

s7ryf3925pivug

That be a good yank slogan is not cool. Dunno how much anti American sentiments characterise the trump protests but they shouldn't be tolerated any more than similar things against other nationalities. Aside from it being ****ty behaviour, it undermines anti-Trump messages. Also the USA is very definitely our friend, and we benefit from disproportionate influence on the country and investment from them. shockingly arrogant to see it any other way.

LillySV

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I tell you what, we seem to be throwing money trying to educated some Irish people here is schools & collage.


The vast majority may well turn out to be bogus. I don't know that but lets run with that. Bogus or not they are asylum seekers. They come to Ireland looking for asylum. They are not illegal. They are illegal if they stay after their asylum has been refused, though they usually get deported then anyway. If they stay after their asylum has been refused then they are no longer asylum seekers. They then become illegals. The person in the link provided is an asylum seeker & not an illegal.


I left school at 14 in 1982 & we covered all of this. It's not rocket science

Well please return to school and learn to spell. Please understand also that when groups of people leave their country for the hope of asylum, they are supposed to look for it in the country they land in.... not jump through countries until they find the safest and best paying welfare system....

Standman

The Highwayman wrote: »

...
Now personally I believe in total free speech I don't recognise the idea of hate speech, so yes I'd agree with the great unwashed they can have whatever placards they want but only if i can do the same.

I'm intrigued, what would you put on your sign?

Sleeper12

LillySV wrote: »

Well please return to school and learn to spell. Please understand also that when groups of people leave their country for the hope of asylum, they are supposed to look for it in the country they land in.... not jump through countries until they find the safest and best paying welfare system....

The reason I left school at 14 in 1982 is because I an autistic & dyslexic. In 1982 they couldn't pick up on these things & I was labeled thick. Even if they did pick up on my disability, there was no such thing as a special resource teacher back then. Unfortunately because of the way my brain works I have to rely on spelcheck. If it gets it wrong there is nothing I can do.


Your above comment still doesn't make them illegal immigrants here in Ireland. The state still treats them as asylum seekers & processes them as asylum seekers & not illegal immigrants.



So the education lesson still stands. An asylum seeker is NOT an illegal immigrant, no matter how much you want them to be.

TCM

Sonny noggs wrote:

Did those protests get wall to wall front page and radio / TV news bulletin coverage including quotes and photos?

Sonny noggs wrote:

Did those protests get wall to wall front page and radio / TV news bulletin coverage including quotes and photos?

Shag all protesters turned up yesterday in Dublin; just those useless gits seeking a bit of publicity, the usual tree huggers and the rainbow crowd.

Sleeper12

TCM wrote: »

Shag all protesters turned up yesterday in Dublin; just those useless gits seeking a bit of publicity, the usual tree huggers and the rainbow crowd.

OP seems to know them all personally because he can tell us that they are unemployed :pac::pac::pac:

Baggly

TCM wrote: »

Shag all protesters turned up yesterday in Dublin; just those useless gits seeking a bit of publicity, the usual tree huggers and the rainbow crowd.

Mod

The standard of posting needs to improve in this thread from a number of posters. Do so or thread bans and/or cards will follow.

kildare lad

mdk_kdm wrote: »

Why do they call Trump a fascist and a Nazi?

Why do they even call him a racist?

I had to laugh when I was watching the protests in London. There was a woman screaming in someone face about Trump being a " nazi " . She mustn't be following his presidency too closely , as trump has been so far up Netanyahu's hole he's coming out his mouth. Trump was widely condemned when he recognised that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, he also recently sent Netanyahu a map included the golan heights as part of israel , its not its part of lebanon but israel have occupied it. I can't stand trump , I think he an egotistical moron but the behaviour of people left, is something that's changed my opinion as someone who's been a left leaning guy over the last few years.

MrFresh

Arghus wrote: »

Open racism is okay if it's a thread in After Hours.

Yeah. It's pretty sad how accepted it is. The biggest defence is "it's not technically racist". I mean, if you're only defence for your bigotry and discrimination is that it that it technically doesn't fit the grounds for racism then you really need to take a look at yourself.

kildare lad

[/quote]

Oh dear Lord, I think we need a stronger vetting system , to see who we let into this country .

.Charlo

kildare lad wrote: »

I had to laugh when I was watching the protests in London. There was a woman screaming in someone face about Trump being a " nazi " . She mustn't be following his presidency too closely , as trump has been so far up Netanyahu's hole he's coming out his mouth. Trump was widely condemned when he recognised that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, he also recently sent Netanyahu a map included the golan heights as part of israel , its not its part of lebanon but israel have occupied it. I can't stand trump , I think he an egotistical moron but the behaviour of people left, is something that's changed my opinion as someone who's been a left leaning guy over the last few years.

Is this the wagon you are talking about?
What exactly set her off calling the guy a Nazi? Was he being a racist or was it the old difference of opinion that set her off?

Some deranged people on the left. Where does the anger come from?

topper75

Deleted User wrote: »

That 'check your privilege' nonsense is not going to wash in this country. Whatever privilege we as Irish people have was hard fought for by our parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc.

Well said. Much of this imported political thought is as relevant here as a two-pin plug.
It is an indication of a disconnect from real life by many young Irish who have failed to grasp that the internet is a tool to resort to and not a place to mentally reside.

Anteayer

You'll always get very very passionate and angry people on the edge of any movement, but the movements that actually bring people on board and change opinions by finding allies and moving the consensus position are the ones that actually achieve change.

If you take the two recent referenda, the campaigns were highly successful because the majority of those involved moved things forward by talking to people about why things needed to change and their own experiences. Compared to what I've seen elsewhere and in the past here, it didn't become extremely polarised. There was an actual discussion and a shift of public policy and the centre moved away from a historically very conservative position.

Ireland's not like the US or UK and there genuinely isn't a hard right and hard left that are pitched against eachother all the time. We've a highly unusual proportional electoral system that is working more and more like it always should have, bringing a range of opinions into the legislature. I mean look at our elections, you've everyone from centre right, fairly stuffy FGers and FFers to radical and socially progressive Clare Daly all getting a platform and getting seats. That's not possible in most democracies, as you've first past the post or restrictive party list based PR.

If you go back to the mid 20th century in Ireland that proportional voting system was well established, but you'd other factors driving it, mostly an aftermath of civil war politics and an incredible powerful and politically active Catholic Church all set against fairly constantly grinding poverty, a history of famine and depopulation and a serious lack of confidence, reinforced by anti Irish sentiment and so on. Those factors are by and large gone. We were still very much in a post independence state that had all sorts of reactionary elements and various groups engaging in attempts at state craft and so on. It took decades to find out feet, but we eventually did.

I think we sometimes, especially online, import US political talking points that aren't relevant here and you're seeing that on both ends of the spectrum here. It's also very easy to get sucked into online bubbles that then turn out to have no traction in reality and you see that on both sides, left and right, all the time. Various characters who've big online followings but have performed badly in elections or in public campaigns.

klaaaz

The protest started at 6pm so anyone who doesn't work at 6pm is jobless according to the OP!!. Also from that Indo article, we see the type of Trump supporters who get zero criticism here

Holding a large poster "GOD BLESS TRUMP", Purcell said: "We love Donald Trump. He is a man of god and god is using him for good.

"My sister-in-law has lived in New York for forty years and she said they absolutely love him in America.

"I’m a Christian and Donald is a Christian and he stands up for the Christians rights and he’s the only US President who had the guts to move the (us) embassy to Jerusalem. Many presidents said they would do it but they never did," she added.

Blinky Plebum

Baggly wrote: »

Mod

The standard of posting needs to improve in this thread from a number of posters. Do so or thread bans and/or cards will follow.

Maybe some neutral modding by yourself would help the thread, you've made 2 interjections so far in to this thread both against people who are criticizing these self absorbed rent a mob protesters that everyone knows exist.

riffmongous

klaaaz wrote: »

The protest started at 6pm so anyone who doesn't work at 6pm is jobless according to the OP!!. Also from that Indo article, we see the type of Trump supporters who get zero criticism here

Now now, you can't go and tar a whole group of people based on the actions of one nutjob... oh wait apparently in this thread you can

Anteayer

I think though most people would accept that Trump's hardly an ideal president. He's stoked up all sorts of divisions to achieve power and disunited a country that has huge issues with underlying social fault lines around social issues, race, xenophobia, nativism, religious issues and identity politics and even a north-south divide that still basically mirrors the civil war lines on a range of cultural, political and social issues.

The specifics aren't the issue for me. It's the fact he's willing to exploit those American fault lines to gain power and pour petrol on all sorts of smouldering fires.

A good US president brings the country together and leads by doing that. Trump has basically played sides odd each other and the team around him are even worse.

He's also not really the cause of this, America has been heading this way for years. You can trace it back to for the last couple of decades. There's been a rot of ever increasing identity politics creeping into the system and I would really say this presidency was inevitable. He's more of a symptom of a huge societal problem than the cause.

It's those decades of increasing agressive negative campaigns, spending hundreds of millions on candidates digging dirt and slinging mud at each other, dirty, awful, horrible stuff, the centre ground disappearing as various aspects of American tribal politics grew and became unable to find common ground on anything anymore.

I think it's going to get worse and worse as everything has retreated to online bubbles and nobody is really leading anymore.

How this unwinds itself eventually is anyone's guess. Maybe it won't.

.Charlo

klaaaz wrote: »

The protest started at 6pm so anyone who doesn't work at 6pm is jobless according to the OP!!. Also from that Indo article, we see the type of Trump supporters who get zero criticism here

Let us hear your criticism of this person so, the floor is yours....

Blinky Plebum

Anyone in this country who uses the terms white privilege really needs to have a look at themselves and realise how unbelievably stupid it makes them look.

Baggly

Blinky Plebum wrote: »

Maybe some neutral modding by yourself would help the thread, you've made 2 interjections so far in to this thread both against people who are criticizing these self absorbed rent a mob protesters that everyone knows exist.

Mod

Mod actions arent open to discussion on thread. Last warning about that to everyone.

I dont care about who takes what position in this thread. But hyperbole and casual throwaway statements (like the one you slipped in there) wont do, no matter who says them.

So for both of the above reasons, dont post in this thread again.

Thanks.

Zorya

Anteayer wrote: »

A good US president brings the country together and leads.... them into war


.

Fixed your post for you there

Anteayer

Io

Zorya wrote: »

Fixed your post for you there

You didn't actually. You just completely changed my point and misquoted me.

They do have a long history of uniting behind a common external enemy, real, imagined or invented.

It looks increasingly like those options are being prepped as we speak as various external enemies are identified.

kildare lad

.Charlo wrote: »

Is this the wagon you are talking about?
What exactly set her off calling the guy a Nazi? Was he being a racist or was it the old difference of opinion that set her off?

Some deranged people on the left. Where does the anger come from?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7111533/More-1-300-people-sign-petition-urging-NHS-sack-protester.html#article-7111533

She describes herself as an intersectional feminist , whatever that means

Sham Squire

The Highwayman wrote: »

So as the title goes I was just flicking around on my phone and went into the Irish Independent and saw an article about some unemployed people protesting Trump in Dublin today.(Yes they were that lazy the didn't even go down to Clare)

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/thousands-attend-antitrump-demonstration-in-dublin-as-us-president-enjoys-casual-dinner-party-at-doonbeg-38189745.html

Now if you read the story you can see some of the placards of the usual dross from the professionally offended jobless.

I found it very ironic and with a roll of the eyes bloody typical that what would be considered racism is fine when this cohort of hysterical loons get a bee in their collective bonnet.

Naturally the Irish Independent proudly tells us that the illegal immigrant, Lesley Mkoko who hates white people was leading the charge. Hilarious! I wonder if I had a placard with "Be a good African and go home" how long it would have lasted, what kind of racist I'd be called?

Now you might like, hate or be totally ambivalent about President Trump but it does not change the issue.

Racism, bigotry and hate are all fine if directed at the enemy of the outraged mob on the left where they even celebrate a criminal like Lesley Mkoko because they are on your side.

Personally I'm sick of the double standard in the media and online when it comes to these kind of issues. You can scream and jump up and down about the catholic church but woe betide you bring up islam.

Why is that? It's an issue very prevalent here in boards. Where you can be banned for wrong think.

Now personally I believe in total free speech I don't recognise the idea of hate speech, so yes I'd agree with the great unwashed they can have whatever placards they want but only if i can do the same.

Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

Racist snowflake

Ruraldweller56

Blinky Plebum wrote: »

Anyone in this country who uses the terms white privilege really needs to have a look at themselves and realise how unbelievably stupid it makes them look.

What does it even mean? I've been told before to 'check my privilege'? What is it? In what way am I privileged? Is it something to do with the colour of my skin?

Maybe it's because of that plantation my grandfather has in Roscommon with all those African volunteers who work there FOC.

Oh wait hang on that isn't me. And this isn't the 1800's. And Roscommon isn't South Carolina.

It's easy to forget sometimes.

.Charlo

kildare lad wrote: »

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7111533/More-1-300-people-sign-petition-urging-NHS-sack-protester.html#article-7111533

She describes herself as an intersectional feminist , whatever that means

I dont want to know what that even means... Somebody wronged her in life.

Ruraldweller56

Anteayer wrote: »

I think though most people would accept that Trump's hardly an ideal president. He's stoked up all sorts of divisions to achieve power and disunited a country that has huge issues with underlying social fault lines around social issues, race, xenophobia, nativism, religious issues and identity politics and even a north-south divide that still basically mirrors the civil war lines on a range of cultural, political and social issues.

He's also not really the cause of this, America has been heading this way for years. You can trace it back to for the last couple of decades. There's been a rot of ever increasing identity politics creeping into the system and I would really say this presidency was inevitable. He's more of a symptom of a huge societal problem than the cause.

It's those decades of increasing agressive negative campaigns, spending hundreds of millions on candidates digging dirt and slinging mud at each other, dirty, awful, horrible stuff, the centre ground disappearing as various aspects of American tribal politics grew and became unable to find common ground on anything anymore.

Ya we've that here too with the rainbow co and friends.

.Charlo

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

What does it even mean? I've been told before to 'check my privilege'? What is it? In what way am I privileged? Is it something to do with the colour of my skin?

Maybe it's because of that plantation my grandfather has in Roscommon with all those African volunteers who work there FOC.

Oh wait hang on that isn't me. And this isn't the 1800's. And Roscommon isn't South Carolina.

It's easy to forget sometimes.

Always remember

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbQSZRrJcdE

Tchaikovsky

It sounds like the OP was triggered.

Cordell

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Asylum seeker is now called an illegal immigrant?

Not usually called that but that's exactly what they are legally speaking, at least until they get granted refugee status.

Ruraldweller56

.Charlo wrote: »

Always remember

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbQSZRrJcdE

Classic

Anteayer

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

Ya we've that here too with the rainbow co and friends.

Spend a few hours sometime in any political context here where people are working cross party e.g. with any TD etc, from any party and you'd be surprised how unlike the online bubbles it is.

We've a few noisy protest groups. We don't have people burning cars like in France, we don't have major or even minor political parties that are so polarised that they can't speak to each other, as is the case at the moment in the UK and US.

We've justifiable anger and annoyance about housing and health issues but that's not spilling over into irrationality either. It's being tackled in the context of normal politics.

I'm really not seeing much evidence of identity politics other than in online bubbles.

recedite

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Asylum seeker is now called an illegal immigrant? That is news to me.

To be an asylum seeker, you'd have to fleeing some kind of political persecution wouldn't you? Or be an agitator or an opposition leader and have the govt. after you, like Puigdemont or Assange.
The guy at the protest says he is a qualified engineer in the oil industry and is here looking for work. He basically describes his home country as a shíthole country, and that's his reason for leaving it.
http://www.metroeireann.com/news/861/i-will-be-able-to-live-my-life.html

Swaziland - a proudly independent African country rich in minerals and mines, and never colonised by Europeans. In 1881 the British government signed a convention recognizing Swazi independence despite the Scramble for Africa that was taking place at the time.
The way he is talking down this fine African country, and being in the oil industry, you'd think he'd be a natural Trump supporter :pac:

Mkoko wanted to leave his homeland, a country with a life expectancy of only 51 years, the fourth lowest in the world. Mkoko felt he had to escape a country that has more than one in six of its citizens living with HIV, the world’s highest rate.
Over the last 11 months, Mkoko has been waiting and hoping for a decision that would allow him to resume his career as a chemical engineer. His experience working in Swaziland for Shell, among other companies, leaves him in no doubt as to what he can contribute to Irish society.

I'd suggest two options for this guy.
1. Go to Nigeria where there is a big oil industry
2. If he doesn't want to live in any African country, he can apply for a visa elsewhere, for example in Ireland apply here.

KikiLaRue

Cordell wrote: »

Not usually called that but that's exactly what they are legally speaking, at least until they get granted refugee status.

Legally speaking, you’re wrong.

Sleeper12

Cordell wrote:

Not usually called that but that's exactly what they are legally speaking, at least until they get granted refugee status.

No they are not. Illegal immigrant is someone who comes to the country and hides. An asylum seeker announces their arrival to the authorities. They are NOT illegal and they now have a legal right to work as far as I remember.

Illegal immigrant and asylum seeker are two totally different things and are treated in different ways.

.Charlo

Sleeper12 wrote: »

No they are not. Illegal immigrant is someone who comes to the country and hides. An asylum seeker announces their arrival to the authorities. They are NOT illegal and they now have a legal right to work as far as I remember.

Illegal immigrant and asylum seeker are two totally different things and are treated in different ways.

Do you know what checks are in place to ensure asylum seekers are genuine ?

Cordell

They both enter the country illegally, an none goes into hiding, because no one is looking for them.

jimgoose

What am I supposed to be offended about?

recedite

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Illegal immigrant is someone who comes to the country and hides. An asylum seeker announces their arrival to the authorities.

What if they only announce their arrival after somebody challenges them?
Asylum seeker or illegal immigrant?


Like this guy, for example.

Sleeper12

.Charlo wrote:

Do you know what checks are in place to ensure asylum seekers are genuine ?

The mind Boggles. There is an entire
Asylum seeking process does exactly that. It checks everything about their story. At the end of the process they are either granted asylum or sent home.

At no time during this process are they illegal immigrants

Cordell

Yes, they are, they admitted their illegal entry and they are seeking for it to be rectified by obtaining refugee status. Or, if you really want to be pedantic about it, the legality of their immigration is currently under evaluation hence any enforcement on said illegal status is currently suspended.

SirGerryAdams

Remember they had that privelege walk at Trinity a few years ago organised by Lynn Ruane? Hilarious stuff.

.Charlo

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The mind Boggles. There is an entire
Asylum seeking process does exactly that. It checks everything about their story. At the end of the process they are either granted asylum or sent home.

At no time during this process are they illegal immigrants

I am aware of that but that's not what I asked. If some fella comes from the back arse of Chad and claims to be seeking asylum because he is gay and being targeted in his country, how can that be verified with 100% certainty?

I'd say the answer is it cant be verified.