007 Mafia: GoldenWolf - GAME THREAD

Clarabel

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Did you miss me?

Wolfy AF

Clarabel

Clarabel wrote: »

Wolfy AF

Hey! You cannot use a read list that had me on it before I joined the game!!!

Ectoplasm

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

You need to check the lynch thread, ecto.

You are the only player so far that has given off the wolfy vibes from where I was reading.

It was your post after vale was munched. The tone of it seemed so insincere.

*shrug*. You've said you're not entirely up to speed so it's ok that you are so very wrong. I wasn't being insincere at all about Vale. I always feel bad for 1st munched. It's such a let down when you've been geared up to play and suddenly you're out.

Barney92

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Hey! You cannot use a read list that had me on it before I joined the game!!!

If you are a wolf then that is the best read in werewolf and they should retire on top.

Bounty Hunter

Welcome Strawbs, another person I've tunneled before :P

Not sure I had any notes on Skunk.

Sully seems to care more about being accused of being a man than of being a wolf :pac:

about to cook so might be busy for a while but will be on later

Right, I’m gonna go back and read the thread again.

Keith, did you say you were doing up an interactions list? If you are, I won’t bother doing one too.

Oh and expect a top or bottom list from me.

sKeith

Clarabel wrote: »

Last night Drum asked a few questions on the mechanics of the game, and questions that make me think if he had a BR he'd ask there and get quickly brought up to speed rather than say having to read the whole thread.

I also query why Baggly wasn't mod killed....how often are subs made Vs modkill on no shows.

Your thinking here is deeply flawed.


Question was asked, or wrote on thread, myself and ecto responded to it at face value, but then nothing, just a thanks for each of us, no further interactions on the subject, no follow up questions, nothing.
And you somehow pull a clear for drummie out of you butt for that.


Either drummie is your teammate or you're very very gullible.


why would bagly be modkilled?


This whole post is wonky!

Dublinandy2

theskunk went That sucks

Skunk - Hope you're ok!

sKeith

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Right, I’m gonna go back and read the thread again.

Keith, did you say you were doing up an interactions list? If you are, I won’t bother doing one too.

Oh and expect a top or bottom list from me.

Started it, really busy today, so not found time yet to continue. here's the raw data so far.




skeith | | |
skeith | choc chip | |
clarabel | | |
skeith | clarabel | |
clarabel | skeith | where's wally |
skeith | clarabel | |
ectoplasm | | |
bounty hunter | | |
uriel | | |
choc chip | skeith | |
ectoplasm | uriel | |
choc chip | | |
valeyard | | |
kittenk | bounty hunter | |
kittenk | valeyard | |
uriel | ectoplasm | |
baggly | | |
uriel | baggly | |
baggly | uriel | |
fixxxer | | |
kittenk | fixxxer | |
valeyard | kittenk | |
fixxxer | | |
barney | fixxxer | |
baggly | | |
barney | valeyard | |
barney | | |
kittenk | | |
bounty hunter | kittenk | |
kittenk | bounty hunter | |
bounty hunter | | |
kittenk | | |
skunk | | |
valeyard | | |
skunk | valeyard | |
clarabel | bounty hunter | |
clarabel | mods | |
bounty hunter | clarabel | |
skeith | bounty hunter | |
clarabel | bounty hunter | |
skeith | skeith | |
valeyard | | |
kittenk | skeith | |
skeith | kittenk | |
kittenk | skeith | |
bounty hunter | skeith | |
clarabel | skeith | |
skeith | clarabel | |
skunk | kittenk | |
skeith | skunk | |
barney | skeith | |
valeyard | barney | |
skunk | skeith | |
skeith | skunk | |
barney | | |
skeith | barney | |
baggly | skeith | |
barney | skeith | |
skeith | barney | |
kittenk | | |
barney | skeith | |
kittenk | | |
valeyard | kittenk | |
skeith | kittenk | my BR |
kittenk | skeith | |
skunk | skeith | |
clarbel | | which BR is that then? | #75
tritium | sKeith | vote sK |
whiplashy | | |
valeyard | tritium | |
valeyard | | I'm a serious note, |
valeyard | | I am not a serious note… |
baggly | | senses someone wants him shot. |
tritium | baggly | |
kittenk | baggly | |
barney | valeyard | |
fixxxer | baggly | |
valeyard | baggly | |
valeyard | fixxxer | |
tritium | valeyard | |
baggly | | |
tritium | baggly | |
bounty hunter | valeyard | |
bounty hunter | skeith | Very open about your BR there SK. | #91
kittenk | baggly | |
tritium | baggly | |
tritium | tritium | |
valeyard | | |
tritium | valeyard | |
baggly | | |
valeyard | tritium | |
dandy | | |
choc chip | dandy | |
skeith | dandy | |
barney | choc chip | |
skeith | choc chip | |
choc chip | skeith | 2d or not 2d, that is the question. |
barney | skeith | |
bounty hunter | dandy | |
baggly | | |
bounty hunter | | |
valeyard | | |
baggly | | we kill baggly |
dandy | choc chip | |
dandy | | perplex mirror |
choc chip | dandy | |
skeith | choc chip | |
kittenk | choc chip | |
tritium | choc chip | |
choc chip | | |
whiplashy | | |
whiplashy | | |
valeyard | whiplashy | |
skeith | whiplashy | |
clarabel | valeyard | |
whiplashy | skeith | |
whiplashy | clarabel | |
clarabel | | |
sullivlo | | |
choc chip | sullivlo | |
choc chip | choc chip | |
choc chip | skeith | I see what you did their.. nice.. |
fixxxer | | I'm more interested in the BR mention that he made. | #131
kittenk | whiplashy | |
ectoplasm | | |
kittenk | ectoplasm | |
valeyard | ectoplasm | |
dandy | kittenk | |
valeyard | clarabel | |
kittenk | dandy | |
dandy | mods | |
fixxxer | dandy | ptsd | #140
dandy | fixxxer | |
dandy | | |
skeith | fixxxer | |
dandy | skeith | |
skeith | dandy | |
baggly | | |
skeith | kittenk | |
skeith | skunk | |
skeith | clarabel | |
skeith | bounty hunter | |
skeith | fixxxer | |
dandy | skeith | |
skeith | dandy | |
dandy | skeith | |
baggly | | |
tritium | choc chip | |
skunk | | |
skeith | skunk | |
skunk | | |
dandy | skeith | |
skeith | dandy | |
dandy | skeith | |
skunk | dandy | |
dandy | skunk | |
dandy | | |
skunk | dandy | |
skunk | | |
choc chip | skunk | |
dandy | skunk | |
skeith | dandy | |
choc chip | dandy | |
skunk | | |
choc chip | | |
skeith | skunk | |
bounty hunter | | |
choc chip | bounty hunter | |
kittenk | | |
whiplashy | | |
valeyard | | |
cheezy | | |
whiplashy | | |
baggly | | |
choc chip | cheezy | |
valeyard | choc chip | |
skunk | skeith | |
skunk | | |
dandy | whiplashy | |
dandy | | |
skunk | | |
skeith | dandy | |
clarabel | | I have a gun | #191
dandy | clarabel | |
sketh | skunk | |
skeith | dandy | |
dandy | skeith | |
skeith | dandy | |
clarabel | sKeith | |
dandy | sKeith | |
clarbel | dandy | |
clarabel | clarabel | |
dandy | clarabel | |
skeith | | |
baggly | sKeith | genie much? | #203
skunk | skeith | |
skunk | dandy | |
skeith | skunk | |
choc chip | skeith | |
skeith | cheezy | |
skeith | choc chip | |
cheezy | skeith | |
skeith | cheezy | |
ectoplasm | | |
dandy | skunk | |
dandy | cheezy | |
skeith | tritium | |
ectoplasm | | |
dandy | ectoplasm | |
skeith | ectoplasm | |
ectoplasm | | |
skeith | kittenk | |
dandy | ectoplasm | |
choc chip | skeith | |
skeith | skunk | |
choc chip | dandy | |
choc chip | skeith | |
bounty hunter | | |
clarabel | | |
skeith | choc chip | |
mods | choc chip | |
skeith | choc chip | |
choc chip | skeith | |
skeith | choc chip | |
ectoplasm | | |
valeyard | | |
bounty hunter | skeith | |
bounty hunter | valeyard | |
skeith | ectoplasm | |
ectoplasm | skeith | |
skeith | ectoplasm | |
choc chip | skeith | |
skeith | choc chip | |
bounty hunter | | |
choc chip | skeith | |
bounty hunter | choc chip | |
choc chip | mods | |
valeyard | clarabel | |
baggly | | |
clarabel | | |
ectoplasm | clarabel | |
clarabel | ectoplasm | |
ectoplasm | clarabel | |
valeyard | ectoplasm | |
ectoplasm | | Don't suppose the wolves just want to tell us who they are? | #260
valeyard | ectoplasm | |
ectoplasm | valeyard | |
dandy | ectoplasm | |
uriel | | |
ectoplasm | uriel | |
uriel | ectoplasm | |
bounty hunter | | |
ectoplasm | bounty hunter | |
dandy | | |
tritium | skeith | | #282
skeith | tritium | |
cheezy | clarabel | |
dandy | sKeith | |
bounty hunter | dandy | |
dandy | bounty hunter | Everytime someone said vote I've created a page to go with it. | #289
tritium | sKeith | |
baggly | ectoplasm | |
uriel | | |
choc chip | | |
skunk | | |
skeith | | reads list | #324
uriel | skeith | |
skeith | uriel | |
dandy | sketh | |
skeith | dandy | |
choc chip | skeith | |
skeith | | revised reads list | #331
valeyard | | |
uriel | skeith | |
whiplashy | | |
uriel | whiplashy | |
whiplashy | uriel | |
uriel | whiplashy | |
clarabel | dandy | |
clarabel | | reads list | #342
skeith | clarabel | |
dandy | clarabel | |
clarabel | dandy | |
dandy | clarabel | |
clarabel | skeith | |
bounty hunter | | |
bounty hunter | dandy | |
bounty hunter | | funny looking back - fg mods | #350
baggly | | toys getting restless in pram. |

Clarabel

sKeith wrote: »

why would bagly be modkilled?


This whole post is wonky!

I dunno that's why I was asking. I've only seen people modkilled for non participation. (Except for QB last game when she was a wolf). I'm trying to extract without yet talking about Roles. What the norm is. My experience says replaced=rolled, modkilled = nRV.
Can you assist with this?

Regarding drum, maybe I am gullible, wouldn't be the first time , but he's posts after are not screaming wolf. They are progressing on what I thought.

I like your questioning and prodding.

fixXxer

That is one impressive table :-/

sKeith

Clarabel wrote: »

I dunno that's why I was asking. I've only seen people modkilled for non participation. (Except for QB last game when she was a wolf). I'm trying to extract without yet talking about Roles. What the norm is. My experience says replaced=rolled, modkilled = nRV.
Can you assist with this?

Yes, I can assist with this, you thinking is incorrect.


If subs available they will always be used up first. It is incorrect to think that an NRV would be modkilled rather than subbed.


Think of the balance.
Currently village has 3 mislynches.

If nrv's were modkilled instead of being subbed, then we have 2 mislynches.


Does that sound like a fair thing to allow if you have subs available?


Don't get reads of people from being subbed or not, it will lead you astray. Get reads from the posts of two people, sharing the one slot.
Maybe you can read bagly better than drummie, well, the read on bagly= the read on drummie and vice versa.

Regarding drum, maybe I am gullible, wouldn't be the first time , but he's posts after are not screaming wolf. They are progressing on what I thought.

I like your questioning and prodding.

My pleasure.

Ectoplasm

Ok, so I'm writing up my notes but not going to do the same wall of text as I have before. Have looked at sKeith, Dandy and BH here. These are current top posters along with me (so someone should probably ISO me at some point).

Next up for me are Clarabel, Choccy and Drumbag.

Dublinandy2 Mostly responding to others/asking general questions. Fun with graphics. Doesn't seem to read OP…real/fake confusion? Starts low posters chat on Day 0. Comments on SKs reads. Bit on mechanics but doesn't seem to have read earlier discussion. Encouraging contributions. Suggests graphics as a pocketing strategy - pre-emptive? Post 600. Discussion of Baggly lynch following Vale munch - protecting teammate? Post 700 says Baggly was in good list but Drumpot is in bad list??? Strange voting plan/pattern. Erratic posts - more neutral than village.
Bounty Hunter Assumes Column B. Notes SK mention of BR - wary of SK as helpful wolf. Trying not to tunnel. Considers wolves have unmentioned powers. Did some ISOs although in wrong order on fixxxer. Exchange with WL over their suspcions. Posts suspects list with explanations. ISOs Trit. Makes good point about still needing reasons for vote to be given out. Fairly solid village lean here.
sKeith Noted on read back he assumed a role cop was in place a few times. TMI? Made BR joke - ballsy wolf? Seems to make a point of interacting with everyone. Good villager or clever wolf? If a wolf look at post 324 - would likely include at least 1 teammate - don't think he is though. Poking at people, eg BH for disordered fixxxer ISO, DAndy for strange Drumpot clear etc. Village lean at the moment.

Ectoplasm

I'm aware that my notes might not make sense for everyone so if there are any questions on it, please ask. I'm out to get some food for now but when I come back, it's back to work on my notes.

kitten_k

Clarabel wrote: »

I dunno that's why I was asking. I've only seen people modkilled for non participation. (Except for QB last game when she was a wolf). I'm trying to extract without yet talking about Roles. What the norm is. My experience says replaced=rolled, modkilled = nRV.
Can you assist with this?

Regarding drum, maybe I am gullible, wouldn't be the first time , but he's posts after are not screaming wolf. They are progressing on what I thought.

I like your questioning and prodding.

That wouldn't make sense from a game point of view as then everyone would know the person was roled. If it was a RV, then the wolves would know who to munch. As SK says - if subs are available the preference is to use them.

sKeith

Ectoplasm wrote: »

Ok, so I'm writing up my notes but not going to do the same wall of text as I have before. Have looked at sKeith, Dandy and BH here. These are current top posters along with me (so someone should probably ISO me at some point).

Next up for me are Clarabel, Choccy and Drumbag.

Dublinandy2 Mostly responding to others/asking general questions. Fun with graphics. Doesn't seem to read OP…real/fake confusion? Starts low posters chat on Day 0. Comments on SKs reads. Bit on mechanics but doesn't seem to have read earlier discussion. Encouraging contributions. Suggests graphics as a pocketing strategy - pre-emptive? Post 600. Discussion of Baggly lynch following Vale munch - protecting teammate? Post 700 says Baggly was in good list but Drumpot is in bad list??? Strange voting plan/pattern. Erratic posts - more neutral than village.
Bounty Hunter Assumes Column B. Notes SK mention of BR - wary of SK as helpful wolf. Trying not to tunnel. Considers wolves have unmentioned powers. Did some ISOs although in wrong order on fixxxer. Exchange with WL over their suspcions. Posts suspects list with explanations. ISOs Trit. Makes good point about still needing reasons for vote to be given out. Fairly solid village lean here.
sKeith Noted on read back he assumed a role cop was in place a few times. TMI? Made BR joke - ballsy wolf? Seems to make a point of interacting with everyone. Good villager or clever wolf? If a wolf look at post 324 - would likely include at least 1 teammate - don't think he is though. Poking at people, eg BH for disordered fixxxer ISO, DAndy for strange Drumpot clear etc. Village lean at the moment.

Wow, just wow. I have TMI for noticing bounty hunter was showing TMI?


Mention of BR was no joking matter.



Note, my BR, singular, possessive.


If I shared a BR with others, would I call it MY BR?

I’m only on page 2 of 21 of reading back and making notes. At this rate I don’t know if time is going to be on my side so I need to work in real time with my questions. Apologies if anything I ask has been answered.

Keith, for the majority of page 2 I’ve been reading you as village and I’m quite proud of my track record to date. You’ve been explaining the roles in detail and would a wolf benefit from giving all this info? I’ve tried to look at you posting what you have (up to page 2) in wolf’s clothing and I just can’t see it.

BUT

wtf is the Backroom post about?

fixXxer

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I’m only on page 2 of 21 of reading back and making notes. At this rate I don’t know if time is going to be on my side so I need to work in real time with my questions. Apologies if anything I ask has been answered.

Keith, for the majority of page 2 I’ve been reading you as village and I’m quite proud of my track record to date. You’ve been explaining the roles in detail and would a wolf benefit from giving all this info? I’ve tried to look at you posting what you have (up to page 2) in wolf’s clothing and I just can’t see it.

BUT

wtf is the Backroom post about?

Clarabel

sKeith wrote: »

Wow, just wow. I have TMI for noticing bounty hunter was showing TMI?


Mention of BR was no joking matter.



Note, my BR, singular, possessive.


If I shared a BR with others, would I call it MY BR?

Keith, why weren't you munched?

sKeith

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I’m only on page 2 of 21 of reading back and making notes. At this rate I don’t know if time is going to be on my side so I need to work in real time with my questions. Apologies if anything I ask has been answered.

Keith, for the majority of page 2 I’ve been reading you as village and I’m quite proud of my track record to date. You’ve been explaining the roles in detail and would a wolf benefit from giving all this info? I’ve tried to look at you posting what you have (up to page 2) in wolf’s clothing and I just can’t see it.

BUT

wtf is the Backroom post about?

Your predecessor took issue with me possibly outting RVs, but then asked no questions, even when prompted by me to do so, about the people poking at a likely RV. Both skunk and kitten took it as a case to pursue that i was possibly outting a RV and that makes me suspicious.


Then, clarabel, fixxer and bounty hunter make reference to my BR drop, but neither kitten or skunk go asking questions of them, why they are poking at a RV.


As i said already, i find kitten more genuine here, and find skunk more of the follower and the more suspicios one with regards this.


You'll find it all in your catch up, and can verify that i did and said all this.

sKeith

Clarabel wrote: »

Keith, why weren't you munched?

How the **** would I know that.


Ask the wolves that, not me.

Ta.

I’m diving into page 3 now.

kitten_k

sKeith wrote: »

Your predecessor took issue with me possibly outting RVs, but then asked no questions, even when prompted by me to do so, about the people poking at a likely RV. Both skunk and kitten took it as a case to pursue that i was possibly outting a RV and that makes me suspicious.


Then, clarabel, fixxer and bounty hunter make reference to my BR drop, but neither kitten or skunk go asking questions of them, why they are poking at a RV.


As i said already, i find kitten more genuine here, and find skunk more of the follower and the more suspicios one with regards this.


You'll find it all in your catch up, and can verify that i did and said all this.

Sorry thought I responded to you on this. My issue is that you were possibly outing another players role which I didn't agree with. But you personally outed yourself as having a BR, not another player outing you - you see the difference? As I said previously I don't actually have a wolf lean on you at the moment but it was just something I wanted to point out.

Ectoplasm

sKeith wrote: »

Wow, just wow. I have TMI for noticing bounty hunter was showing TMI?


Mention of BR was no joking matter.



Note, my BR, singular, possessive.


If I shared a BR with others, would I call it MY BR?

Eh no...the TMI wasn't about BH at all. It was about you posting about different roles, while stating that the rolecop was in play. I think you were actually chatting to Barney at the time but not sure. I'll find the quotes when I'm home and we can discuss it further if you like.

On the BR thing, if it was a ballsy wolf play - rather than a slip - I think you'd be very, very careful about the wording.

Have to say, your outrage is a little OTT given that I've stated I think you are village. At the end of the day, they are my notes SK and I only know my alignment. I'm entitled to be as suspicious as I like about everyone else.

sKeith

Ectoplasm wrote: »

Eh no...the TMI wasn't about BH at all. It was about you posting about different roles, while stating that the rolecop was in play. I think you were actually chatting to Barney at the time but not sure. I'll find the quotes when I'm home and we can discuss it further if you like.

On the BR thing, if it was a ballsy wolf play - rather than a slip - I think you'd be very, very careful about the wording.

Have to say, your outrage is a little OTT given that I've stated I think you are village. At the end of the day, they are my notes SK and I only know my alignment. I'm entitled to be as suspicious as I like about everyone else.

Yes, will enjoy discussing the posts.


I think it's very obvious that I am not being very very careful with my posting.


My outrage is mine and i'm entitled to use it as much or as little as I like.
You opinion that my outrage was a little OTT was your opinion which you are entitled to have, but I also entitle to believe that your opinion is regarding my outrage is wack.

I don't really care if you have the words, leaning villagers at the end of your post, it makes no odds to me what way you lean, but I will respond to perceived slights at my slot. My slot did not have TMI, and as we'll flesh it out later, your perception of TMI is incorrect, and me correcting mistakes in your post about me is something I'll do, regardless if you say lean good or lean bad afterwards.

Ectoplasm

sKeith wrote: »

Yes, will enjoy discussing the posts.


I think it's very obvious that I am not being very very careful with my posting.


My outrage is mine and i'm entitled to use it as much or as little as I like.
You opinion that my outrage was a little OTT was your opinion which you are entitled to have, but I also entitle to believe that your opinion is regarding my outrage is wack.

I don't really care if you have the words, leaning villagers at the end of your post, it makes no odds to me what way you lean, but I will respond to perceived slights at my slot. My slot did not have TMI, and as we'll flesh it out later, your perception of TMI is incorrect, and me correcting mistakes in your post about me is something I'll do, regardless if you say lean good or lean bad afterwards.

Ok. Just home and have gone back. The posts I was talking about were the exchange with Barney that starts here. It read like you had TMI. Having read your reply and read back again, I will say that I hadn't considered that there was more than one way for someone to have that information.

I am going to keep making notes though because this has highlighted something for me that I'd not have spotted otherwise. And I will say this - I'm glad someone is at least reading them :pac:

sKeith

Ectoplasm wrote: »

Ok. Just home and have gone back. The posts I was talking about were the exchange with Barney that starts here. It read like you had TMI. Having read your reply and read back again, I will say that I hadn't considered that there was more than one way for someone to have that information.

I am going to keep making notes though because this has highlighted something for me that I'd not have spotted otherwise. And I will say this - I'm glad someone is at least reading them :pac:

Just FYI. The motion detector can only exist when the rolecop exists.
The motion detector cannot exist in any world where there is no rolecop.
Thats not TMI. Thats just working with the information I believed I was being presented with at the time, no prior info exists there.


The fact, if MD exists, RC exists. Read again, knowing this fact.

Ectoplasm

sKeith wrote: »

Just FYI. The motion detector can only exist when the rolecop exists.
The motion detector cannot exist in any world where there is no rolecop.
Thats not TMI. Thats just working with the information I believed I was being presented with at the time, no prior info exists there.


The fact, if MD exists, RC exists. Read again, knowing this fact.

Yeah. That was what I spotted. Which is why I'm saying it's a good thing someone is reading and asking questions about what I've noted. Just to say, with my notes I always include stuff that makes it possible for someone to be a wolf - wolves win by playing the village role well so while I try to put people into village and not, I always leave a window where it's possible they are clever wolf.

Also, as I am using up a post I might as well ask, what d'you mean by slot? You mentioned it before about 'your slot' and I wasn't sure what you were talking about. No rush on answering that btw.

I think I'm down to about 20 posts left before I hit the limit and I want to get more notes up before the limit lifts so gonna focus on that for now.

sKeith

Ectoplasm wrote: »

Yeah. That was what I spotted. Which is why I'm saying it's a good thing someone is reading and asking questions about what I've noted. Just to say, with my notes I always include stuff that makes it possible for someone to be a wolf - wolves win by playing the village role well so while I try to put people into village and not, I always leave a window where it's possible they are clever wolf.

Also, as I am using up a post I might as well ask, what d'you mean by slot? You mentioned it before about 'your slot' and I wasn't sure what you were talking about. No rush on answering that btw.

I think I'm down to about 20 posts left before I hit the limit and I want to get more notes up before the limit lifts so gonna focus on that for now.

by slot, i mean the player position in the game.


baggly is not drummie, but they both have been in charge of the same player slot.


I could say role, but that gets confusing fast.


slot keeps the ambiguity about have a role or being nrv or wolf etc out of it where if you say role, it can come across as you thinking that they have a role, when your are just talking about the slot.




voted for|by whom
sullivlo| sKeith, whiplashy, uriel
choc chip| Tritium, Cheezy, sullivlo
fixxxer | dandy
tritium | clarabel

ectoplasm | Strawberry

Drumpot

sKeith wrote: »

Question was asked, or wrote on thread, myself and ecto responded to it at face value, but then nothing, just a thanks for each of us, no further interactions on the subject, no follow up questions, nothing.

Just on this, I had actually typed a response , something like “will have to re-read the Op with my morning coffee” but deleted as I know it can frustrate some mods when people don’t read OP. Rather then discuss it further on thread I thought it best to try and work it out based on what you both said which I think after my review this morning I think I have a reasonable grasp.