Formula 1 2019 - Round 7 - Canada

Itssoeasy

Lads Montreal Isn’t like other tracks like silver stone where there is loads of run off areas. Where was vettel supposed to go ? Crash into the wall and then take Hamilton out ?

antodeco

I can't help but feel that Mercedes purposely sent a girl onto the podium...

Thrashssacre

antodeco wrote: »

I can't help but feel that Mercedes purposely sent a girl onto the podium...

Why?

antodeco

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Why?

Less likely to boo "Mercedes".

I find it funny that after the race has been the most exciting thing all season!

Itssoeasy

antodeco wrote: »

I can't help but feel that Mercedes purposely sent a girl onto the podium...

She enjoyed herself up there which was nice to see regardless of the reasons.

eagle eye

I just heard about this and seen it. What was Vettel supposed to do? Crash?
Absolutely insane decision.
If he tried to stay off the racing line he might have spun around and taken both himself and Hamilton out.
This isn't a big wide track.

d8491prj5boyvg

It all boils down to Seb making a mistake. I don't think he had anywhere to go but if you make a mistake it can cost you a place and that's what happened. Very very disappointing to see another Merc win but I have lost all sympathy after his petulance.

skipper_G

All the professional racing drivers turned pundits on Sky agree, did not deserve a penalty.

H3llR4iser

eagle eye wrote: »

I just heard about this and seen it. What was Vettel supposed to do? Crash?
Absolutely insane decision.
If he tried to stay off the racing line he might have spun around and taken both himself and Hamilton out.
This isn't a big wide track.

Clearly, some people think he should've just crashed in the barrier he avoided inside the chicane...

I want to think Merc crying wasn't a factor and it's sheer incompetence from the side of the judges.

Itssoeasy

skipper_G wrote: »

All the professional racing drivers turned pundits on Sky agree, did not deserve a penalty.

Toto just said he’d **** the place board at the car.

Joeface

Entertainment was had but not really they way I wanted a race to be resolved . I will avoid commenting on penalty .

Lance Stroll had a really good race . Nice drive to catch and over take Sainz and really nice how Dani Kyvatt managed to pull off that over take straight after .

They were the remaining highlights of the race for me .

Good result for Renault even if I feel they were a bit anonymous today as well as Redbull . They were well down . Not a good showing by Honda powered this weekend .

Pissartist

Big result for Lewis though championship wise,

H3llR4iser

skipper_G wrote: »

All the professional racing drivers turned pundits on Sky agree, did not deserve a penalty.

You really only need eyes and a brain. They are correct, this is the same stupidity level of Spa 2008 (Hamilton was penalized for "gaining an advantage" although he lost a position and regained it on the following corner, go check it).

Toto's full of cr@p, trying to imply Vettel catching the oversteer was aimed at closing down on Hamilton.

bucketybuck

Vettel made a mistake, went off the track, then came back on, crossed to the other side and nearly took out another driver.

Does intent really matter? Why does it matter that he had nowhere else to go, he still reentered the track and nearly hit the other car. If he had come across and actually clipped Hamilton would that have made it worth a penalty? Why? Whats the difference?

I get that it is a shame and that nobody wants to win a race like that, but taking the emotion out of things it just seems like a straightforward penalty to me.

riffmongous

At least it's something to look at/ talk about.

Itssoeasy

All the ex racing drivers on sky seem to be in agreement about it being an unfair penalty.

HighLine

Whatever about some of the incorrect opinions expressed on here, I'm glad all the pundits and actual race drivers recognise that the penalty was the wrong decision.

Faugheen

Jameson Greasy Kelp wrote: »

It all boils down to Seb making a mistake. I don't think he had anywhere to go but if you make a mistake it can cost you a place and that's what happened. Very very disappointing to see another Merc win but I have lost all sympathy after his petulance.

I agree with this.

Having seen the on-board footage I agree the penalty was harsh as it's clear he's trying to regain control, but there is a lot to be said for Vettel sh*tting the bed whenever Hamilton is chasing him down. He clearly hasn't the head to deal with it most of the time.

H3llR4iser

bucketybuck wrote: »

Vettel made a mistake, went off the track, then came back on, crossed to the other side and nearly took out another driver.

Does intent really matter? Why does it matter that he had nowhere else to go, he still reentered the track and nearly hit the other car. If he had come across and actually clipped Hamilton would that have made it worth a penalty? Why? Whats the difference?

I get that it is a shame and that nobody wants to win a race like that, but taking the emotion out of things it just seems like a straightforward penalty to me.

Wrong point to look at it. There was LITERALLY nothing else he could've done.

Also, on day 1 of race driver training you're taught one thing: if you see an incident up ahead, put your car on the side of the track IT STARTED, as the car(s) are unlikely to come back there. Had they crashed, that would've been a mistake on the part of Hamilton as well - trying to go around the outside of an out of control car isn't a great idea. He's too good and experienced not to know he was taking a risk himself there.

flazio

Personally I think they should have been called to the stewards after the race to make their case.

Pissartist

HighLine wrote: »

Whatever about some of the incorrect opinions expressed on here, I'm glad all the pundits and actual race drivers recognise that the penalty was the wrong decision.

I think you'll find the only decision that matters is that it was deemed a penalty, so that is the correct opinion.

bucketybuck

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Wrong point to look at it. There was LITERALLY nothing else he could've done.

I fully understand that.

If Vettel had actually put Hamilton into the wall, would it have been worth a penalty then?

This is it

Pissartist wrote: »

I think you'll find the only decision that matters is that it was deemed a penalty, so that is the correct opinion.

That doesn't make it correct.

BikeRacer

You're all focusing on the penalty, the penalty is secondary, this is just another addition to the growing list of times Seb has been put under pressure and a resulting mistake has cost him.

deafroadrunner

I believe Hamilton shouldn’t of been trying to go for that gap in the first place. He had to of known vettel would come back on the track. If he had stepping off the power maybe he would of been able to take the dirty side round him.

meeeeh

Faugheen wrote: »

I agree with this.

Having seen the on-board footage I agree the penalty was harsh as it's clear he's trying to regain control, but there is a lot to be said for Vettel sh*tting the bed whenever Hamilton is chasing him down. He clearly hasn't the head to deal with it most of the time.

Hamilton out-braked himself at least twice so his race was not perfect either. Drivers make mistakes when on the limit. I think the wrong person won today.

d8491prj5boyvg

deafroadrunner wrote: »

I believe Hamilton shouldn’t of been trying to go for that gap in the first place. He had to of known vettel would come back on the track. If he had stepping off the power maybe he would of been able to take the dirty side round him.

I suppose Hamilton had the 'right of way' as he was already on the track (for want of a better term!)

mickdw

Vettel failed to make the corner.
Hamilton made the corner.
Vettel had little choice but to rejoin as he did however I'd see it that he failed to lose a place by going off the track and as such he should have let Hamilton by at next opportunity and race on from there.
Vettel couldn't afford to do that though as he is really starting to get the tag of being unable to handle pressure so he kept the lead and pretended all was well then blames all around him when he gets the penalty.
I'm no Hamilton fan either.

Burkie1203

bucketybuck wrote: »

Vettel made a mistake, went off the track, then came back on, crossed to the other side and nearly took out another driver.

Does intent really matter? Why does it matter that he had nowhere else to go, he still reentered the track and nearly hit the other car. If he had come across and actually clipped Hamilton would that have made it worth a penalty? Why? Whats the difference?

I get that it is a shame and that nobody wants to win a race like that, but taking the emotion out of things it just seems like a straightforward penalty to me.

Hamilton took evasive action to avoid Rosberg in Spain 2016. Went on the grass, put the foot down and took Rosberg out

No penalty.


Vettel made a mistake and was trying to correct it. Gets a penalty.

F1 is a shambles. Indy Car is far better

eagle eye

bucketybuck wrote:

I get that it is a shame and that nobody wants to win a race like that, but taking the emotion out of things it just seems like a straightforward penalty to me.

It'd be a penalty if there was intent. Mistakes happen, no intent means no penalty. It's kudos he should be getting for keeping the car from crashing.

eagle eye

Burkie1203 wrote:

F1 is a shambles. Indy Car is far better

Miles better as a spectator sport and no chance of a penalty for something like that.

donspeekinglesh

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Indy Car is far better

And one person is responsible for penalty decisions. Same in IMSA and WEC. And while they make mistake from time to time, there's rarely as much controversy as there has been in F1 over the years.

flazio

Interesting, LeClerc didn’t know about the penalty until after the race. I'm surprised Ferrari didn’t tell him to keep back.

Adamocovic

Penalty was extremely harsh.

Not much else he could have done with it after the rear went. Even all the guys in Sky were in agreement with Vettel on it, saying of course Merc/Hamilton fans would disagree but it looked like just a standard racing incident we see a lot.

It does raise some question about over regulation from stewards and lacks of appeal processes. The drama after the race by Vettel was highly entertaining at least!

Also people accusing him of bottle/etc, don't agree. He has made mistakes previously but today there wasn't much he could have done there, rear went and he did well to recover it.

Faugheen

meeeeh wrote: »

Hamilton out-braked himself at least twice so his race was not perfect either. Drivers make mistakes when on the limit. I think the wrong person won today.

Yes he did, and yes mistakes do happen.

However, it's becoming a pattern for Seb to make a costly mistake when he's out in front and Hamilton is chasing him down, applying the pressure.

Compare it to the other way around and Hamilton just looks much cooler and doesn't let it phase him as much. Same with the likes of Kimi and Ricciardo.

Adamocovic

Faugheen wrote: »

I agree with this.

Having seen the on-board footage I agree the penalty was harsh as it's clear he's trying to regain control, but there is a lot to be said for Vettel sh*tting the bed whenever Hamilton is chasing him down. He clearly hasn't the head to deal with it most of the time.

Even Brundle who I dislike explained in this situation it wasnt really a mistake by Vettel.

Track temperature and the slow pack ahead played a part and the rears didn't keep up. He did well to save it.

Yes Vettel has had high profile errors but think it's unfair to call today one. He had a brilliant race today despite the result.

Faugheen

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Hamilton took evasive action to avoid Rosberg in Spain 2016. Went on the grass, put the foot down and took Rosberg out

No penalty

Why would Hamilton get a penalty for being forced out onto the grass?

Sorry, but that's a ridiculous comparison and they are in no way similar.

I agree the penalty was harsh but comparing Hamilton and Rosberg to this and saying Hamilton got no penalty is bollocks.

This is it

Adamocovic wrote: »

Penalty was extremely harsh.

Not much else he could have done with it after the rear went. Even all the guys in Sky were in agreement with Vettel on it, saying of course Merc/Hamilton fans would disagree but it looked like just a standard racing incident we see a lot.

It does raise some question about over regulation from stewards and lacks of appeal processes. The drama after the race by Vettel was highly entertaining at least!

Also people accusing him of bottle/etc, don't agree. He has made mistakes previously but today there wasn't much he could have done there, rear went and he did well to recover it.

I'm a fan of Vettel but I don't agree with your last paragraph. The rear went because he made a mistake. There wasn't much he could've done to rejoin the track in any other way but what he could've done to avoid the whole issue was not make a mistake in the first place.

Faugheen

Adamocovic wrote: »

Yes Vettel has had high profile errors but think it's unfair to call today one. He had a brilliant race today despite the result.

It was an error which cost him the race at the end of the day though.

Vettel has the same track conditions as everyone else. Hamilton made the corner without any issues just a split second later, so the cool track excuse really doesn't wash.

Inquitus

Indycar is shíte, contrived sport to keep the racing close, low tech, not my cup of tea to be honest.

Adamocovic

Faugheen wrote: »

It was an error which cost him the race at the end of the day though.

Vettel has the same track conditions as everyone else. Hamilton made the corner without any issues just a split second later, so the cool track excuse really doesn't wash.

His rear wheels didn't stick. It's been well documented the struggles Ferrari are having with tyres. All the drivers experience different issues and challenges. Same track but positions, timing and car/team do play a role.

First thing Brundle said when it happened was that it wasn't Vettels fault and that he did well to save it. Wheels at the back lost grip.

I don't deny Vettel has made racing mistakes that have been big but don't agree today was one of them. Fair enough if you don't agree with the ex drivers/analysts but I do.

meeeeh

Faugheen wrote: »

It was an error which cost him the race at the end of the day though.

Vettel has the same track conditions as everyone else. Hamilton made the corner without any issues just a split second later, so the cool track excuse really doesn't wash.

It wasn't the mistake that lost him the race. He stayed ahead, it was the steward's decision that decided the race.

flazio

https://twitter.com/MarioAndretti/status/1137819492631928832?s=19

Adamocovic

Was a good day for Ricciardo and Renault.

Would be nice for them to become more competitive.

d8491prj5boyvg

meeeeh wrote: »

It wasn't the mistake that lost him the race. He stayed ahead, it was the steward's decision that decided the race.

The steward's decision based on his reaction to the mistake/tyre problem. That is what caused the issue. If this was avoided, then the steward's decision would be avoided.

chicorytip

Burkie1203 wrote:

Vettel made a mistake and was trying to correct it. Gets a penalty.

eagle eye wrote:

Miles better as a spectator sport and no chance of a penalty for something like that.

The penalty was fully deserved. He knew exactly what he was doing and had sufficient time and space to adjust the direction of the car. His intention was to impede and he knew exactly where the following car was despite his protestations to the contrary. TV pictures clearly prove all of this. He still deserved to win the race, no question about that and Hamilton was rash in attempting to pass.
Indycar is better only in the single sense of there being a far greater likelihood of driver fatalities occurring. Some find that kind of spectacle entertaining.

eagle eye

Inquitus wrote:

Indycar is shíte, contrived sport to keep the racing close, low tech, not my cup of tea to be honest.

Indianapolis 500 is the best race in Motorsports without question.
It's not designed to keep it close either, there is often runaway winners just that it's not the same winner every week.

eagle eye

chicorytip wrote:

The penalty was fully deserved. He knew exactly what he was doing and had sufficient time and space to adjust the direction of the car. His intention was to impede and he knew exactly where the following car was despite his protestations to the contrary. TV pictures clearly prove all of this. He still deserved to win the race, no question about that and Hamilton was rash in attempting to pass. Indycar is better only in the single sense of there being a far greater likelihood of driver fatalities occurring. Some find that kind of spectacle entertaining.

Did you ever drive a F1 car? If not the how do you know it was meant? I'm of the opinion he had no other choice which would have avoided a crash

bucketybuck

eagle eye wrote: »

It'd be a penalty if there was intent. Mistakes happen, no intent means no penalty.

If Vettel had ended up slightly further across and forced Hamilton into the wall, would that have been worth a penalty?

Adamocovic

It's funny how in agreement all the ex drivers are regarding this and then compare it to the fan reactions.