Homophobic attack on London bus - mod warning, please see OP

Billy Mays

Billy Mays wrote: »

Yeah, the thing is we would though

Deleted User wrote: »

yeah as i said the boards are clogged with the threads about every assault on london public transport alright

I'm pretty sure if two straight women were given a hiding on a bus by 4 scrotes it'd make the news

Billy Mays

Billy Mays wrote: »

I'm pretty sure if two straight women were given a hiding on a bus by 4 scrotes it'd make the news

which news

where are the boards threads about all the assaults on london public transport

Assetbacked

This is the perfect chance to name and shame these hard men online: pictures, addresses etc. These kind of low life's deserve an element of vigilante justice, mainly in the form of public shaming. There's been four arrested but none charged as of yet?

iamwhoiam

[Deleted User] wrote: »

which news

where are the boards threads about all the assaults on london public transport

What if , whatabout, . It is irrelevant because this thread is about two girls who were attacked . Show some empathy .

FunLover18

Sand wrote: »

Not really. English is a specific ethnicity, like Scottish or Welsh. British is not. I am Irish. If I lived in the UK for 5 years, I could become British. But I would still be Irish, not English.

No, they're not. They are nationalities.

Irish - from Ireland
English - from England
Scottish - from Scotland
Welsh - from Wales

British is a catch-all in that anyone from England, Scotland or Wales can call themselves British ie from Britain.

Ethnicity doesn't come into it.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

FTA69 wrote: »

This site cracks me up at times. A pair of young women battered on the bus in an attack provoked due to their sexuality and people are either trying to play down the nature of the homophobia involved or else using this horrible incident based on prejudice to crowbar in a load of prejudice of their own.

Honestly like.

I know. When I heard about this today, I had no clear idea of what the perpetrators might be like apart from the obvious that they are scumbags because I think there are so many types of people who could be capable of this. It’s fascinating to see what people will project onto these as yet faceless perpetrators.

suicide_circus

Assetbacked wrote: »

This is the perfect chance to name and shame these hard men online: pictures, addresses etc. These kind of low life's deserve an element of vigilante justice, mainly in the form of public shaming. There's been four arrested but none charged as of yet?

they are children seemingly. "Youffs" in london parlance

Sand

FunLover18 wrote: »

No, they're not. They are nationalities.

Irish - from Ireland
English - from England
Scottish - from Scotland
Welsh - from Wales

British is a catch-all in that anyone from England, Scotland or Wales can call themselves British ie from Britain.

Ethnicity doesn't come into it.

Is Paul McGrath British?

iamwhoiam

iamwhoiam wrote: »

What if , whatabout, . It is irrelevant because this thread is about two girls who were attacked . Show some empathy .

what crimes are deemed worthy of attention and which details of the victims and the attackers are deemed worthy of attention is very much relevant.

particularly when your options are to cheerlead or be condemned as ~x~

Hedgelayer

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Several racist motivated threads running in the last few days alone. Its the same posters "thanking" the more racist comments again & again. Its what the Internet is all about these days

Lol get a grip seriously.

I read the whole thread and haven't seen one racist comment, not one.

I looked up racism in the dictionary and it's not equated with any comments on the whole thread.

Trump wept

Billy Mays

Deleted User wrote: »

which news

where are the boards threads about all the assaults on london public transport

Loads of news. Google "women attacked on London bus". You'll see plenty of international news sites covering it.

I never said anything anything about boards threads

That was you

iamwhoiam

[Deleted User] wrote: »

what crimes are deemed worthy of attention and which details of the victims and the attackers are deemed worthy of attention is very much relevant.

particularly when your options are to cheerlead or be condemned as ~x~

Sure a bit of empathy for anyone attacked would be better than finding reason to whinge about the reporting of it

Sonny noggs

InTheShadows wrote: »

London is a very dodgy place these days. The scum seem to rule the day.

Knife crime up 50% in 3 years. That’s what we get for being soft on crime.

Assetbacked

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7117059/Protesters-campaigning-against-LGBT-equality-hold-demonstration-banned.html

Maybe it's not at all surprising this attack occurred.

Timberrrrrrrr

Assetbacked wrote: »

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7117059/Protesters-campaigning-against-LGBT-equality-hold-demonstration-banned.html

Maybe it's not at all surprising this attack occurred.

I would doubt that the people.whi did this attack in Londin read the news nor care what happens a few hundred miles away in Birmingham :rolleyes:

Sleeper12

Sand wrote:

Is Paul McGrath British?

Phil lynnott, Phil Bab, Leo varadkar? 8 members of my family are black yet everyone of them are Irish. Brother and sister both born in Dublin almost 60 years ago but black. They speak Irish better than most here that are worried about their irishness being deluted.

What makes an Irish person? how much Irish DNA do you need to be Irish? A lot of the Irish football squad have less Irish DNA than my black brother and sister.

Billy Mays

Billy Mays wrote: »

Loads of news. Google "women attacked on London bus". You'll see plenty of international news sites covering it.

I never said anything anything about boards threads

That was you

yeah

this is an irish discussion board in which people constantly bring up foreign news stories with an agenda and then bemoan the posters around them when its not followed to the letter

cesspit pearclutchin wails

the other site talking about trump ffs

ive asked on a few occasions why its worthy of notice that a specific crime on a specific type of person in a different country should be utilised to drum up my (to use the other poster's term) empathy

or else im obviously guilty of supporting the attackers

on the other hand when i ask why the personal characteristics of the attackers is an irrelevancy thats open season too

its ridiculous.

ye are far too desperate to be connected to a certain type of event and all too ready to acclaim yer credentials and declare the guilt of anyone not quick enough to jump in to the useless cant ("show empathy" to people several hundred miles away ffs, are ye starting a book of condoloences?)

there are several billion people in the world. telling people which ones and which events should matter to them every five seconds is a political position and to pretend it isnt is ridiculous.

FunLover18

Sand wrote: »

Is Paul McGrath British?

What point are you trying to make? Paul McGrath was born in Britain and raised in Ireland, I believe he considers himself Irish as would most people however being born there he probably has a right to a British passport but neither term would have anything to do with his ethnicity.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Sonny noggs wrote: »

Who mentioned muslims? Wasn’t the demographic I had in mind.

Perhaps stop mealy-mouthing then? At least have the courage of whatever the fück your convictions are.

4068ac1elhodqr

Sonny noggs wrote: »

Knife crime up 50% in 3 years. That’s what we get for being soft on crime.

Probably a mix of Tory cuts and Khan too busy with street baloon protests, twitter, or just scared to intervene into communities and do something practical about it, images speak volumes:

Ldn knife crime over 5yrs, Southwark/Newham may as well be in Tijuana:

Sleeper12

Hedgelayer wrote:

I read the whole thread and haven't seen one racist comment, not one.

Hedgelayer wrote:

I looked up racism in the dictionary and it's not equated with any comments on the whole thread.

Hedgelayer wrote:

Trump wept

I rest my case. Someone calling asylum seekers illegal immigrants to push an agenda have racist thoughts to say the least.

NIMAN

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Because of religious beliefs

The gang of men, who take their religion very seriously, decided to batter the women.

Don't think so. Just thugs.

Sand

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Phil lynnott, Phil Bab, Leo varadkar? 8 members of my family are black yet everyone of them are Irish. Brother and sister both born in Dublin almost 60 years ago but black. They speak Irish better than most here that are worried about their irishness being deluted.

What makes an Irish person? how much Irish DNA do you need to be Irish? A lot of the Irish football squad have less Irish DNA than my black brother and sister.

Well, thanks for putting your own personal biases on the table. Your family loyalties explain your views.

But aside from that personal confession, I didn't ask if Paul McGrath is Irish. I asked if he is British. Is he?

Assetbacked

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I would doubt that the people.whi did this attack in Londin read the news nor care what happens a few hundred miles away in Birmingham :rolleyes:

Umm didn't say anything about them reading and being influenced by the news, just that there is an element of homophobia in English society.

Hedgelayer

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I rest my case. Someone calling asylum seekers illegal immigrants to push an agenda have racist thoughts to say the least.

No they don't have racist thoughts, they're maybe uneducated and don't know the facts.

Maybe the anti racist brigade should help the racist's realize that racism isn't supported or nice.

Instead of getting all anxty with racist's why not help them find a better place, anger isn't justified.

Paradoxically the Sjw racist hater's are also lacking empathy and compassion for the racist's...

Know no better and do no better, it's all about the love sjw's....

Sleeper12

Sand wrote:

Well, thanks for putting your own personal biases on the table. Your family loyalties explain your views.

Isn't it funny how I state that my family are Irish yet you see the fact that some of my Irish born family are not white as personal bias.

This speaks volumes about your own biases

Sand

FunLover18 wrote: »

What point are you trying to make? Paul McGrath was born in Britain and raised in Ireland, I believe he considers himself Irish as would most people however being born there he probably has a right to a British passport but neither term would have anything to do with his ethnicity.

The point I am trying to make is that your view is far too simplistic. Identity is complicated. Every person owns their own identity. Its not for me or you to set simplistic rules that anyone born in a particular geographical area must be of the people in the that area. McGrath is not exclusively British simply because he was born in the UK.

Equally, no one can simply claim the identity of a people the happen to share territory with. I do not become English simply by living in London. I can however be British, because anyone living in London for 5 years can be British. English and British are not interchangeable terms - one is an ethnicity and the other is a passport.

The attackers can be described as "British" and be from any part of the world. British as an identity has practically no meaning.

Gimme A Pound

Sonny noggs wrote: »

Who mentioned muslims? Wasn’t the demographic I had in mind.

Stop gaslighting and say who it is so. You're showing bit by bit how little sincerity there was to your "horrific" proclamation in your first post to this thread too.

Hedgelayer wrote: »

It doesn't matter whether they were attacked because they were of any sexual orientation.

Or whatever type of person the attacker's are to be honest.

An attack is an attack, unfortunately for these two young ladies they met up with the wrong crowd and got slagged off and a hiding.

Myself and the brother got attacked by a bunch of scobes on holidays in Wexford back in 1993 and were badly beaten.

We were attacked in an arcade/pool hall because we had a western lilt in our accent's by a few Dublin lads...

They called us ******'s too and culchies.....
One girl in the group kicked me while on the ground...

Just got up after and dusted ourselves down, had a laugh about it and got on with the holidays in ****ty Courtown.

Big effen deal, it's over in the UK get over yourselves for being outraged.....

Really? You're telling people how they should feel about it. And implying that the women should just dust themselves off.

martingriff

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Because of religious beliefs

Ya everyone who is homophobic is religious:rolleyes:

Timberrrrrrrr

Assetbacked wrote: »

Umm didn't say anything about them reading and being influenced by the news, just that there is an element of homophobia in society.

Fixed that for you.

Sand

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Isn't it funny how I state that my family are Irish yet you see the fact that some of my Irish born family are not white as personal bias.

This speaks volumes about your own biases

You're keeping count of the 8 black people in your family. I honestly don't care enough to keep track. You do.

Assetbacked

It is in everyone's interests to publicise the identities of the attackers. People are jumping to conclusions about black gangs etc. and will hold onto these conclusions unless they are convinced otherwise. Otherwise, to call this a homophobic attack is a not correct as they could have been a gay gang.

Sleeper12

Hedgelayer wrote:

No they don't have racist thoughts, they're maybe uneducated and don't know the facts.

Hedgelayer wrote:

Maybe the anti racist brigade should help the racist's realize that racism isn't supported or nice.

Hedgelayer wrote:

Instead of getting all anxty with racist's why not help them find a better place, anger isn't justified.

Here's the thing, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. You won't change people with ingrained fear of something different to their narrow view. Bigots hide behind things. I saw two brothers get kicked from a Facebook group recently for continuously calling Leo varadkar perverted and unnatural. They claimed that their Catholic religion thought them this to be true. The word of the Lord, no less.

Hedgelayer

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Here's the thing, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. You won't change people with ingrained fear of something different to their narrow view. Bigots hide behind things. I saw two brothers get kicked from a Facebook group recently for continuously calling Leo varadkar perverted and unnatural. They claimed that their Catholic religion thought them this to be true. The word of the Lord, no less.

What has those brothers got to do with my post ?

Yes I know all about the horse and water thing.

But eventually the horse will get thirsty and take a drink, why the hell would you be forceful with disabling racist's.

They're hurt some way themselves, if you and other sjw's showed love and compassion to racist's maybe just maybe they'll understand that racism isn't acceptable.

Instead you compare them to an old anology about a horse.

Racist's are human beings too.

Sleeper12

Sand wrote:

You're keeping count of the 8 black people in your family. I honestly don't care enough to keep track. You do.

I can tell you how many white family members I have but that wouldn't interest you. My point that of course you missed is that you can be any colour & be Irish. Colour does not dictate nationality nor has it done in Dublin for 4 or 5 decades.

Assetbacked

Assetbacked wrote: »

It is in everyone's interests to publicise the identities of the attackers. People are jumping to conclusions about black gangs etc. and will hold onto these conclusions unless they are convinced otherwise. Otherwise, to call this a homophobic attack is a not correct as they could have been a gay gang.

Yeah you can't go anywhere without groups of gay lads telling women to kiss each other etc.

Seriously is mammy still dressing you or have you managed to start to do this for yourself.

The only people who are interested in who the attackers were in terms of skin colour etc are the same ones complaining that the actual attack was reported due to the fact that the girls are a couple. In other words assholes.

Sand

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I can tell you how many white family members I have but that wouldn't interest you. My point that of course you missed is that you can be any colour & be Irish. Colour does not dictate nationality nor has it done in Dublin for 4 or 5 decades.

Who said it did apart from yourself? You are the one keeping track of "black" and "white" members of your Irish family. Aren't they all Irish?

If you were related to Paul McGrath, would you count him as one of the "black" or "white" members?

dxhound2005

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Terrible attack, very sad, scummy behaviour, one wonders about the thought processes of the gang involved.

But, apart from that, the BBC has a dedicated LGBT Correspondent?!?!

WTF?

A handsome chap, and no doubt very qualified for the job. It might amaze you to know that BBC radio has a Woman's Hour programme daily, started way back in 1946.

The thought processes of racist, homophobic, Muslim, Catholic, lowlife, scumbag, Neanderthal, misogynistic ethnic minority teenagers are easy enough for people here to discern.

Sleeper12

Hedgelayer wrote:

Instead you compare them to an old anology about a horse.

Ah stop. Horses make more sense then a racist. You'll never see a horse in Cheltenham saying "I'm not running beside him, he's an Arab horse"

Nikki Sixx

Sonics2k wrote: »

"Why do Gay people still need to have a Pride parade, sure there's no more real homophobia."

"Oh this wasn't a gay attack, sure they attacked a gay couple, harassed them, attacked them and told them to kiss but this wasn't a gay attack."

"Probably Muslims."

Jesus Christ I weep for After Hours these days. Long gone are the days of fun and banter, now it's just right wingers spreading their usual ****e.

Will you not even acknowledge that they could just as easily have attacked somebody else? Okay the lesbians drew their attention, but it could have been anybody “different” or unthreatening on that train.

Nikki Sixx

Is an attack on a heterosexual a “heterosexual attack?”

martingriff

Sonny noggs wrote: »

Hard to say without the facts. Then again we wouldn’t be hearing about it at all if the victims were straight.

Trying real hard to get out of this. First you make a remark why did they not give attackers race and color got called out. Then tried to move the goalposts by saying you meant black brits.

Then tried to question why sexuality and gender of the attacked but again not the ethnicity and again get called out and then try to move the goalposts.

Why not just come out and say what you mean

Sleeper12

Sand wrote:

Who said it did apart from yourself? You are the one keeping track of "black" and "white" members of your Irish family. Aren't they all Irish?

Sand wrote:

If you were related to Paul McGrath, would you count him as one of the "black" or "white" members?

I'd call him Irish. I don't see him as black or white. I see him as an Irish man.


It's you that brought colour into it by asking if Paul McGrath was British. An unusual question imo. He is Irish, as is Phil Lynnott. Both born in England yet both as Irish as you and I. The point is that you can be any colour & any religion & be totally Irish. Some of the more colourful side of my family are more Irish than some of the racist keyboard warriors you see on social media & boards.

FunLover18

Sand wrote: »

The point I am trying to make is that your view is far too simplistic. Identity is complicated. Every person owns their own identity. Its not for me or you to set simplistic rules that anyone born in a particular geographical area must be of the people in the that area. McGrath is not exclusively British simply because he was born in the UK.

Equally, no one can simply claim the identity of a people the happen to share territory with. I do not become English simply by living in London. I can however be British, because anyone living in London for 5 years can be British. English and British are not interchangeable terms - one is an ethnicity and the other is a passport.

The attackers can be described as "British" and be from any part of the world. British as an identity has practically no meaning.

I have to admit that I may have confused race with ethnicity. I could continue this discussion although I think we're actually agree on most points (after all that) however I believe people like Farage would argue that British is an ethnicity ie sharing a common British ancestry etc etc however we've veered wildly off topic.

I maintain that both the ethnicity and race of the attackers in this instance are irrelevant.

Junkyard Tom

beejee wrote: »

I maintain that both the ethnicity and race of the attackers in this instance are irrelevant.

Not to these keyboard-mashing hermitfolk - they get to **** off to it if they are Black/Muslim/whatever.

martingriff

Deleted User wrote: »

yeah

this is an irish discussion board in which people constantly bring up foreign news stories with an agenda and then bemoan the posters around them when its not followed to the letter

cesspit pearclutchin wails

the other site talking about trump ffs

ive asked on a few occasions why its worthy of notice that a specific crime on a specific type of person in a different country should be utilised to drum up my (to use the other poster's term) empathy

or else im obviously guilty of supporting the attackers

on the other hand when i ask why the personal characteristics of the attackers is an irrelevancy thats open season too

its ridiculous.

ye are far too desperate to be connected to a certain type of event and all too ready to acclaim yer credentials and declare the guilt of anyone not quick enough to jump in to the useless cant ("show empathy" to people several hundred miles away ffs, are ye starting a book of condoloences?)

there are several billion people in the world. telling people which ones and which events should matter to them every five seconds is a political position and to pretend it isnt is ridiculous.

It's an open public site where people can start threads on anything (legal). You are not forced to be here but as it is a public site people can disagree with you. Start a thread if you fell strongly on something. 2 people got attacked here and instead of going awful someone is attacked and they were target as they were women and gay. The youths may not have gone near them otherwise.

Instead you come on here to try and derail and are shocked and offended when people challenge you

Rubberchikken

Rubberchikken wrote: »

why did these women think that attempting to joke with these muppets would diffuse the situation?

Thats an odd question in the context of how the thread has generally gone but I think I can answer it in a general sense without referring to the actual incident here.

Humor is a very valid and sometimes quite effective way to build a connection with people. It humanizes you in the eyes of the other sometimes. So quite often in desperate situations people will attempt humor to build a link.

It does not just limit itself to desperate situations either. I do a lot of close up magic and mentalism magic. Humor can quickly diffuse aggression suspicion and even skepticism when used right. It is one of the most powerful tools you can use as any kind of magician. You can practice and practice the right moves until you go blue - but you add humor to your toolbox you will excel yourself over night.

The same is often claimed as true in situations with authority. For example a lot of people claim if you make a cop laugh who is about to get you with something you more often than not get out of the situation.

Hell I might even go so far as to recommend it in a hostage situation. Rather than begging for your life and making yourself look like an animal - or threatening your captor and making yourself into the enemy - I would suggest humor might potentially make you a person in their eyes and build a rapport and help your survival. Though I say that as a guess - would love to see if there is a study on that!

TLDR - Humor can make you a real person in the eyes of an aggressor or a mark and save your skin.

RIGOLO

As others have stated where are all the threads for all the other crimes much more serious than this against ordinary Londoners going about their lives.
Is it because the victims were gay, are we supposed to feel a special empathy and sense of shock for them.

People are being knifed every other day in London, cos of the runners they had , cos of the bike they had, cos of the watch they had , cos of the clothes they wore, cos of the car they drove , cos of the joke they made and I don’t see any threads started for them . Pretty much every time someone gets a beating the perpretrators will make some comment to the victim, in this case it was about their sexuality, big deal.

I feel sorry for the two girls for their ordeal but to be honest I feel more sorry for many many others, victims like Nedim Bilgin (17 years old and knifed to death cos he wouldn’t hand over his bike). Wheres the thread for him and the 1000 other victims of knife crime in London in the last 5 years.

All this outrage cos some scumbags beat a few girls over the head and theres a homophobic twist to it, and the bulk of the posters didn’t care much about a 17 year old getting knifed cos he had a new bike.

And if this thread is meant to signify an interest in LGBT issues in the UK then where is the thread about the Birmingham school protests currently taking place in the UK, in Anderton shool. The head teacher is bringing in the concept of same sex relationships teaching on the curriculum and the local community as well as elements from all over Birmingham have come to stage protests for the last few weeks outside her school.
This same-sex teaching will be mandatory in all UK schools next year, as I understand, I wonder how that will play out.

Are these going to be the moments when the LGBT community gets a bit woke.
Is this where the confrontation we all knew was coming finally plays out, where LGBT intolerance meets the religion of peace intolerance.

And this week we have Lord Mayor of London Sadiq Khan an immigrant from Pakistan(a country with one of the worst human rights records in the world) is lauded by the left for not meeting Trump and insulting Trump, the same Sadiq Khan who had no problem welcoming the Chinese premier and says very little about his country of his parents origins issues.

Theres no balance to any discsuiion these days, nobody willing to grasp thorny and uncomfortable aspects of issues, its all so political correct. The news media passes over digging to the root of many crimes cos they are waiting for crimes like this to come along that fit some modern sense of outrage cos it ticks a bunch of boxes some social justice warrior with an agenda who controls the media outlet has , and we are all supposed to adopt the same outtrage.

It all reminds me of the laughable moment when the Icelandic Eurovision entry waved their Palestine flag in Israel, imagine how long they would last if Hamas got their hands on them if they were to walk thru the West Bank as they were.

Globollixation has a lot to answer for.

martingriff

martingriff wrote: »

It's an open public site where people can start threads on anything (legal). You are not forced to be here but as it is a public site people can disagree with you. Start a thread if you fell strongly on something. 2 people got attacked here and instead of going awful someone is attacked and they were target as they were women and gay. The youths may not have gone near them otherwise.

Instead you come on here to try and derail and are shocked and offended when people challenge you

not at all

theres no derailing, for a start? what is the "point" of the thread?

its not me thats upset that im being disagreed with, im interested- and have said so without getting into any sh1tty right wing rubbish- in why the options on a thread like this- the starting of which is in itself a position- are dont post or only post support for a specific position

thats p1ss poor stuff.

"instead of going thats awful someone was attacked" i mean whats the point of that? whats the relevance? what value to them, what value to me, what value to you, to boards?

its twee, its chaff, its vapid, its blubber. congrats you rushed to the correct position, you pass the internet righteousness fire drill.

im not shocked and offended by anything but im hugely amused that these threads, which only exist to serve as a call to useless vocal reaction, provoke so many to upset if people question what the point of it is.

and most posters getting so deliciously ~~~upset~~~ by any response that isnt cheerleading are only bristling to do so. if ye didnt get the trolls ye'd be disappointed, because ye cant be as outraged as ye like without a focal point to lash the aul j'accuse at

again: boards isnt sh1t because there are trolls. boards isnt sh1t because im not clapping in time with your designated cause du jour.

its sh1t because the quality of posting from either faction is tedious and limited in the extreme

Sleeper12

FunLover18 wrote:

I maintain that both the ethnicity and race of the attackers in this instance are irrelevant.

As it is irrelevant in most cases.

On the North side of Dublin there are several gangs that hop on & off the DART to cause trouble. Numbers can be 30 to 50 teenagers. Sightings of these groups are reported in real time on local Facebook groups. Every week some tit will ask are they Irish? You've had eye witnesses describe the mayhem & damage caused by the gang & someone wants to know if they are black or white. This blows me away. Is it better to have your car smashed with bars by black or white kids. Will someone genuinely sleep better knowing that their car is vandalised white kids? The mind truly Boggles

Colour & race of the attackers isn't always relevant to the assault.