Rock on, Rockall! (it's back)

13-06-2019 11:29am

recedite wrote: »

Does it really matter what the UK says about that?

I refer to the well established 'What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander' legal precedent. :pac:

recedite wrote: »

What matters is whether China can prevent the US fleet from sailing past the islands, with the crew mooning at the Chinese from the deck.

From my extensive understanding of sailors the Chinese sailors might quite enjoy that.

janfebmar · 13-06-2019 11:30am

steddyeddy wrote: »

Let's see them try to keep that with a shrinking economy.

Shrinking economy? They still have half the unemployment rate of the eurozone.

FrancieBrady · 13-06-2019 11:32am

janfebmar wrote: »

Her stay was temporary, just like human habitation of Rockall to date.

So is yours on earth itself. But while you are here you can survive as mankind did long before supply ships.

Rockall cannot sustain human life...end of discussion.

janfebmar · 13-06-2019 11:33am

Deleted User wrote: »

Not for the maintaining of life, luxuries yes.

So you are saying for example that the Fastnet rock was never "inhabited"? Tell that to the lighthouse keepers who used to live there.

steddyeddy · 13-06-2019 11:34am

janfebmar wrote: »

Shrinking economy? They still have half the unemployment rate of the eurozone.

The Eurozone isn't a country but compare to Eurozone countries they have the slowest growing economy. Now they're begging for a trade deal from the EU. Not to mention the Trump factor....

FrancieBrady · 13-06-2019 11:34am

steddyeddy wrote: »

The other point worth remembering is that the UK really can't afford to annoy the EU right now.

What's the bets Jan counters this with a veiled threat to the EU on behalf of Britiain...oops...she is way ahead of me!

blinding · 13-06-2019 11:35am

steddyeddy wrote: »

The Eurozone isn't a country but compare to Eurozone countries they have the slowest growing economy. Now they're begging for a trade deal from the EU. Not to mention the Trump factor....

Trump is doing a great job in America . I doubt he has enough time for Rockall unless his Mum was a fan .

steddyeddy · 13-06-2019 11:37am

blinding wrote: »

Trump is doing a great job in America . I doubt he has enough time for Rockall unless his Mum was a fan .

Yes he does indeed! He's even promised a deal to the Uk, in between attending Sinn Fein rallies.....

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ohnonotgmail · 13-06-2019 11:41am

janfebmar wrote: »

Her stay was temporary, just like human inhabitation of Rockall to date. Nowadays whatever of our islands are inhabited are supplied by ship.

everybodies stay is temporary. Life is like that. And our islands are supplied by ship by twice. People could live on them independently and did for hundreds of years.

13-06-2019 11:42am

janfebmar wrote: »

Her stay was temporary, just like human habitation of Rockall to date.

Damn it. Well played Janfebmar, I think you're the only one realising this is after hours and taking the piss is de rigueur.

recedite · 13-06-2019 11:45am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The UK boarding Irish trawlers fishing in their waters under EU agreements would never happen unless they were breaking some other supplementary law.

This point has already come up in a court, and we were the "bad neighbours", not them.
6 of the 12 miles is an EU entitlement. The other 6 is a gift.

Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine Michael Creed confirmed this morning that these were the first two vessels detained by the Defence Forces since a Supreme Court ruling in 2016 which found a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ called voisinage had no legal standing.
Voisinage, roughly translated as “neighbourliness”, allows fishing vessels registered in Northern Ireland to fish from 0-6 nautical miles up to Irish coasts, and vice versa.
The arrangement was brought to the Supreme Court which ruled in 2016 that despite Ireland having signed up to the arrangement as part of the London Fisheries Convention (1964), there were no provisions for it in Irish law.
Irish vessels, however, are still permitted to fish in the 0-6 nautical miles around Northern Ireland and Great Britain.

steddyeddy · 13-06-2019 11:47am

recedite wrote: »

This point has already come up in a court, and we were the "bad neighbours", not them.
6 of the 12 miles is an EU entitlement. The other 6 is a gift.

I agree that that was a bad move. You won't hear any defence of it from me.

13-06-2019 11:49am

recedite wrote: »

This point has already come up in a court, and we were the "bad neighbours", not them.
6 of the 12 miles is an EU entitlement. The other 6 is a gift.

Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine Michael Creed confirmed this morning that these were the first two vessels detained by the Defence Forces since a Supreme Court ruling in 2016 which found a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ called voisinage had no legal standing.
Voisinage, roughly translated as “neighbourliness”, allows fishing vessels registered in Northern Ireland to fish from 0-6 nautical miles up to Irish coasts, and vice versa.
The arrangement was brought to the Supreme Court which ruled in 2016 that despite Ireland having signed up to the arrangement as part of the London Fisheries Convention (1964), there were no provisions for it in Irish law.
Irish vessels, however, are still permitted to fish in the 0-6 nautical miles around Northern Ireland and Great Britain.

Isn't Rockall considered part of Scotland by the Scots. Therefore, are the Scots breaking the Gentleman's agreement now? :eek:

recedite · 13-06-2019 11:53am

Deleted User wrote: »

Isn't Rockall considered part of Scotland by the Scots. Therefore, are the Scots breaking the Gentleman's agreement now? :eek:

That's a fair point, except does a gentleman's agreement still stand if one of the gentlemen involved has already broken it?
And what distance from Rockall are the Scots threatening the enforcement action, is it within 6 miles or 12 miles?

13-06-2019 11:56am

recedite wrote: »

That's a fair point, except does a gentleman's agreement still stand if one of the gentlemen involved has already broken it?

They kissed and made up after that, AFAIK, and back to fishing in the relative waters.

recedite wrote: »

And what distance from Rockall are the Scots threatening the enforcement action, is it within 6 miles or 12 miles?

I'd only heard about them complaining about the 12 mile limit, but shouldn't it even be allowed within the 0-6 miles regardless IF they claim Rockall is part of Scotland?

FrancieBrady · 13-06-2019 11:56am

recedite wrote: »

This point has already come up in a court, and we were the "bad neighbours", not them.
6 of the 12 miles is an EU entitlement. The other 6 is a gift.

What is your point about that exactly?
There was a gentleman's agreement that had no footing in law. Obviously a complaint was made and the Irish had to respond to it.

The Rockall situation is covered by law. UN and EU.

RobMc59 · 13-06-2019 12:20pm

blinding wrote: »

Trump is doing a great job in America . I doubt he has enough time for Rockall unless his Mum was a fan .

You mean his SCOTTISH mother.

blinding · 13-06-2019 12:27pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

You mean his SCOTTISH mother.

Yeah . How many Mums has he got ?;)

13-06-2019 12:28pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

You mean his SCOTTISH mother.

Although, didn't he claim she was German at one stage. But, if Trump said today was Thursday I'd still check the calendar.

janfebmar · 13-06-2019 12:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

. But, if Trump said today was Thursday I'd still check the calendar.

Your memory that bad you never know the day of the week it is? At least Trump could remember to tell Leo and the world that the US-UK special relationship was the greatest alliance the world had ever seen. Francis thought that was the Libya-Ira alliance. Leo though the world's greatest alliance was between him and Kylie Minogue because he wrote a letter to her.

13-06-2019 12:56pm

janfebmar wrote: »

Your memory that bad you never know the day of the week it is?

More like even though I'd know the day if I was in agreement with Trump the shock would be such I'd have to check it :pac:

janfebmar · 13-06-2019 1:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

More like even though I'd know the day if I was in agreement with Trump the shock would be such I'd have to check it :pac:

You are in good company, the likes of Hitler and col. Bacardi and Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein used to say the same thing, if they were ever in agreement with the elected president of the usa and he said the day of the eeek, they would check the calendar.

Berserker · 13-06-2019 1:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

But, if Trump said today was Thursday I'd still check the calendar.

Trump would be correct. Does that carry any weight with you?

FrancieBrady · 13-06-2019 1:14pm

janfebmar wrote: »

Your memory that bad you never know the day of the week it is? At least Trump could remember to tell Leo and the world that the US-UK special relationship was the greatest alliance the world had ever seen. Francis thought that was the Libya-Ira alliance. Leo though the world's greatest alliance was between him and Kylie Minogue because he wrote a letter to her.

The 'greatest alliance' if the terms of reference are running around like a lapdog riding shotgun for US interests around the globe.

I'd prefer the alliance that gives us two days of access to one of the most powerful economies worth billions in trade and tourism.

recedite · 13-06-2019 1:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

They kissed and made up after that, AFAIK, and back to fishing in the relative waters.
I'd only heard about them complaining about the 12 mile limit, but shouldn't it even be allowed within the 0-6 miles regardless IF they claim Rockall is part of Scotland?

IF Rockall is considered the same as any other part of Scotland and IF the gentleman's agreement is back on again, and IF the Scots are inclined to include themselves in it, then yes.

Irish trawlers should be allowed within 6 miles of Rockall as long as Scotland is still in the EU, and right up to the rock IF the Scots are feeling generous.

Scots tend to be as tight as a Rockall codfish's hole though.

janfebmar · 13-06-2019 1:26pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'greatest alliance' if the terms of reference are running around like a lapdog riding shotgun for US interests around the globe.

.

Riding shotgun with a partner is better than not riding with the partner at all

lawred2 · 13-06-2019 1:29pm

janfebmar wrote: »

Riding shotgun with a partner is better than not riding with the partner at all

taking back control

Berserker · 13-06-2019 1:31pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'greatest alliance' if the terms of reference are running around like a lapdog riding shotgun for US interests around the globe.

I'd prefer the alliance that gives us two days of access to one of the most powerful economies worth billions in trade and tourism.

The UK will have the best of both worlds post Brexit. Are you still wishing for an independent Scotland? Not sensing much love from them towards the RoI.

FrancieBrady · 13-06-2019 1:38pm

janfebmar wrote: »

Riding shotgun with a partner is better than not riding with the partner at all

Ha ha ha...who mentioned 'partner'...partner infers equality. The UK and the US 'equals'???

'catch yerself on', as they'd say in Belfast.

FrancieBrady · 13-06-2019 1:39pm

Berserker wrote: »

The UK will have the best of both worlds post Brexit. Are you still wishing for an independent Scotland? Not sensing much love from them towards the RoI.

Sure they will Beserker...sure they will!

Berserker · 13-06-2019 1:47pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ha ha ha...who mentioned 'partner'...partner infers equality. The UK and the US 'equals'???

Every President of the USA and British PM for generations.

13-06-2019 1:48pm

Berserker wrote: »

Every President of the USA and British PM for generations.

Except that the UK have debased themselves to such an extent they are now a compliant lapdog.

steddyeddy · 13-06-2019 1:57pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

You mean his SCOTTISH mother.

And he certainly treated the Scottish people well with his golf course business.

13-06-2019 1:59pm

Berserker wrote: »

Trump would be correct. Does that carry any weight with you?

A stopped clock is correct twice a day, but still not trustworthy.

FrancieBrady · 13-06-2019 1:59pm

Berserker wrote: »

Every President of the USA and British PM for generations.

:D:D 'equal' partners?

:D:D

13-06-2019 2:04pm

Berserker wrote: »

Every President of the USA and British PM for generations.

Partners the same way Bolivia was a partner of the allies in WW2

steddyeddy · 13-06-2019 2:12pm

Interesting spot on Newsnight about the actual power the UK holds on the world stage. Former adviser for the US state department states here that the UK has long been a medium power in the world and that was only because they were part of the EU. The Brexit decision has changed that for the worse. I particularly like the line "what you think of British strengths are really only thought of as strengths inside Britain."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiY5RPXyEfU

FrancieBrady · 13-06-2019 2:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Partners the same way Bolivia was a partner of the allies in WW2

Or Winston was when he was begging Roosevelt to rescue them in 1940? :rolleyes:

RobMc59 · 13-06-2019 2:41pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Or Winston was when he was begging Roosevelt to rescue them in 1940? :rolleyes:

At least the British knew who they could rely on...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army_%E2%80%93_Abwehr_collaboration_in_World_War_II

droidman123 · 13-06-2019 2:46pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

At least the British knew who they could rely on...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army_%E2%80%93_Abwehr_collaboration_in_World_War_II

Britain were an enemy to the ira,so whats your point?

FrancieBrady · 13-06-2019 2:46pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

At least the British knew who they could rely on...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army_%E2%80%93_Abwehr_collaboration_in_World_War_II

Quick...look over there! :rolleyes:

RobMc59 · 13-06-2019 2:54pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Quick...look over there! :rolleyes:

Your hatred and loathing of Britain is almost comical

FrancieBrady · 13-06-2019 2:59pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

Your hatred and loathing of Britain is almost comical

I never made any secret of my hatred and loathing of what Britain has done and continues to do in pursuit of it's aims.
I have no hate for Britain and it's people otherwise. Many British people are ashamed of empire days and continued aggression and imperialist pursuits too.

RobMc59 · 13-06-2019 3:05pm

droidman123 wrote: »

Britain were an enemy to the ira,so whats your point?

I know that and any decent Irish person like yourself would probably have no time for the IRA but some here idolise them.

odyssey06 · 13-06-2019 3:10pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Interesting spot on Newsnight about the actual power the UK holds on the world stage. Former adviser for the US state department states here that the UK has long been a medium power in the world and that was only because they were part of the EU. The Brexit decision has changed that for the worse. I particularly like the line "what you think of British strengths are really only thought of as strengths inside Britain."

Strange definition of 'medium power'. Their economy is approx top 8 in the world, they are a nuclear power with a UN security council seat. Their armed forces are not large in numbers but are advanced in tech.
They are not a 'superpower', and have not been in the first rank of powers since WWII but they are certainly in the next rank.
It's a pointless remark without knowing rankings of other countries. There must be very few 'medium' powers in the world if UK isn't one of them.

lawred2 · 13-06-2019 3:14pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

I know that and any decent Irish person like yourself would probably have no time for the IRA but some here idolise them.

Who here idolises them?

RobMc59 · 13-06-2019 3:17pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Who here idolises them?

Imo francie does if you're asking

FrancieBrady · 13-06-2019 3:25pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

Imo francie does if you're asking

Have you morphed into janfebmar?

I never idolised anyone, much less the IRA. I'm appalled that there was a reason for the IRA to exist and primarily blame the British and partition for what happened in northern Ireland.
Don't mistake that for idolising.

RobMc59 · 13-06-2019 3:32pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Have you morphed into janfebmar?

I never idolised anyone, much less the IRA. I'm appalled that there was a reason for the IRA to exist and primarily blame the British and partition for what happened in northern Ireland.
Don't mistake that for idolising.

Fair enough-I can understand that.

janfebmar · 13-06-2019 3:49pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Have you morphed into janfebmar?

I never idolised anyone, much less the IRA. I'm appalled that there was a reason for the IRA to exist and primarily blame the British and partition for what happened in northern Ireland.
Don't mistake that for idolising.

In the same way fanatical Muslim extremists never idolized Isis or the 9/11 hijackers. They were appalled there was a reason for Al Queida to exist and primarily blame America and the west for happened in the middle East.
Don't mistake that for idolising.

Rock on, Rockall! (it's back)

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