How long does it usually take for a first time gun license to be approved?

JohnFitz2332

Mr. Speedy wrote: »

Ahh but wouldn't it be many times quicker if they already have you on the system?

No

Mr. Speedy

JohnFitz2332 wrote: »

No

Oh sure fair enough so, Ill run into the station tomorrow and ask them how the progress is on it

Cass

Mr. Speedy wrote: »

You'd imagine they would 100% call them just to make sure you're not a complete nutcase or maybe they make that judgement when they see you in the station;)

The referees are only a last stop measure. The back ground checks they'll do will be on you, your name, any info on PULSE such as previous convictions, etc.

So if they are not contacted it's not uncommon.

I put down 300 on my application and the FO said, and I quote "Jesus christ are ya planning on carrying out a mass shooting"

Yeah, just ignore that ignorance.

Scribbled it out and threw down 150 he was satisfied with that.

Then it's no longer your application.

FOs, even Supers are not allowed to alter an application. They can contact you as it's being processed and inform you they won't authorise 1,000, but will grant 300 however for anyone bar you to change or write something on the form makes it no longer your application and would put it in the arena of fraudulent application.

You asked for 300 not 150. I personally wouldn't let it go, but that is your choice.

The Bishop Basher

Mr. Speedy wrote: »

Ahh but wouldn't it be many times quicker if they already have you on the system?

I had the same experience with my first gun. Even the pistol didn’t raise an eyebrow and was approved in a week.

I agree with other posters here though, 150 ammo limit is way too low and will be very restrictive.

I wouldn’t let that go.

Mr. Speedy

Rennaws wrote: »

I had the same experience with my first gun. Even the pistol didn’t raise an eyebrow and was approved in a week.

I agree with other posters here though, 150 ammo limit is way too low and will be very restrictive.

I wouldn’t let that go.

Maybe it was a superintendent of my district that was caught in that corruption scandal and thats why its taking a while

cookimonster

Absolutely agree with the point being made about the GS changing your form, shouldn't be happening.
Now if they decide to not grant you the amount asked for than that to me is a totally different kettle of fish and something you can debate or argue at a latter date.

But lets be honest if your not target shooting / competing then the amont of ammo is relative to your intended purpose.

For example:

Shotgun for hunting : 500/1000 cartridges - realistic even for pigeon decoying; game bird season sees me buying just 1 slab and maybe share an other specificaly for ducks.

.22 Rimfire for hunting : 200 rounds, even in the heady days of 30+ rabbits a bag you'd be hard pushed to go through 50 odd rounds. Now a box of 50 would last me several outings.

Centre fire Deer Calibres: 100/200, even on a really good season with zeroing maybe 25/30 & another box or so throughout the year for foxs.

I don't keep brass and both the cartridges and spent rimfire casings are disposed of in the bin.
You could argue batch buying but lets face it for general hunting accuracy is it warranted. Then, for me any how, laying out €160.00 - €350.00 for stalking ammo at one go is a non flyer when realisticly its more like €70 -€80 for my season and then some.

As I inferred different horses for different courses, but somtimes, especially new shooters get fixated on, or more precisely the restriction to, the amount of ammo they can have in hand.

Peppa Cig

solarwinds wrote: »

So he altered your application. I would stick to my guns if you want 300 ask for it and if you have a good enough reason you should get it and if not get them to tell you why.

On the subject of ammo volumes. If your licensed for say 500 rounds what controls are in place to stop you accumulating 1000 rounds. Am I right to say nothing?

**not advocating breech of conditions (I appreciate the consequences).

cookimonster

Other then the local lad dropping out to you there's no checks and balances.

But I've just spent the week commuting back and forth to work and the usual daily run around and did not encounter one Garda. So hypotheticaly let's say I have no insurance / tax on my car then who was there to check, no one, but I'm still breaking the law. Like most legal aspects of life we are expected to work within the limits of said law and contrary to what some think, with out big brother constantly looking over your shoulder.

Having said that, I have regularly encountered GS check points while going to and from hunting trips and thankfully never had an issue with them. I believe if your going to get into shooting then you'd better have your i's dotted and t's crossed and not bring yourself to the attention of the Gaurds in a negative light.

solarwinds

Theres nothing stopping you buying as much ammo as you want. But if you are got with it say goodbye to your shooting sport. Personally its not worth the risk as I have too much money invested in my sport to go taking chances.

As for another poster not wanting interaction with AGS, I'm afraid that is unavoidable. I have a good relationship with all the gaurds on the ground its better to be on good terms with them than not as they are your first point of contact. Also if out at night and they are called out because you are shooting then they will know what you are at as they know you. Its only higher up the food chain you start to experience problems.

Mr. Speedy

Peppa Cig wrote: »

On the subject of ammo volumes. If your licensed for say 500 rounds what controls are in place to stop you accumulating 1000 rounds. Am I right to say nothing?

**not advocating breech of conditions (I appreciate the consequences).

I can always write a letter with a new application amending the amount ammunition though can i not?

Mr. Speedy

solarwinds wrote: »

Theres nothing stopping you buying as much ammo as you want. But if you are got with it say goodbye to your shooting sport. Personally its not worth the risk as I have too much money invested in my sport to go taking chances.

As for another poster not wanting interaction with AGS, I'm afraid that is unavoidable. I have a good relationship with all the gaurds on the ground its better to be on good terms with them than not as they are your first point of contact. Also if out at night and they are called out because you are shooting then they will know what you are at as they know you. Its only higher up the food chain you start to experience problems.

I'm 100% not trying to be a pain in gluteus maximus for AGS and I have no problem with them calling over it's just that I would PREFER if they didn't

tac foley

cookimonster wrote: »

I don't keep brass and both the cartridges and spent rimfire casings are disposed of in the bin.

I didn't think that you could 'keep brass', unless you reload.

The Bishop Basher

cookimonster wrote: »

As I inferred different horses for different courses, but somtimes, especially new shooters get fixated on, or more precisely the restriction to, the amount of ammo they can have in hand.

Fair enough.

Given the caliber I assume the OP is hunting.

A day at the range is a different story though where a couple of hundred rounds would be gone in an afternoon.

cookimonster

Mr. Speedy wrote: »

I'm 100% not trying to be a pain in gluteus maximus for AGS and I have no problem with them calling over it's just that I would PREFER if they didn't

But you are applying for a gun licence and they CAN call out to you, not only for your initial application but for subsiquent renewals, change of FO or local Superintendent or for what ever reason they deem fit.

.....so no matter what, make sure you have clean underwear on!

cookimonster

tac foley wrote: »

I didn't think that you could 'keep brass', unless you reload.

They are counted in on your ammo limit, so if you are limited to 150 rounds and you have 50 empty casings and 100 live rounds then your at your limit.

Its been debated here many times, but component parts of rounds count against your ammo limit.

Cass

tac foley wrote: »

I didn't think that you could 'keep brass', unless you reload.

You can. As was said above:

cookimonster wrote: »

They are counted in on your ammo limit,............................................., but component parts of rounds count against your ammo limit.

Bullets and brass are component parts the same as propellant and primers, but unlike brass and bullets, propellant and primers afre classed as explosives so require separate authorisation to possess in their "individual" parts (IOW when not in a complete round).

Mr. Speedy

To the ammunition limit argument, I was present with him when he scribbled out the 300 and signed his initials above it, I agreed with him because a) i was sort of nervous being that I was applying for a gun and I didn't want to annoy him by arguing because first impressions are everything, b) because I didnt think to say that it is an inconvenience to have to travel a fair distance to the dealer and because of the spent casings thing. His comment probably would've been inappropriate but because of the tip on the nose atmosphere at the time I didn't think much of it. Yes I'll be on the foxes for the most part but I'll most likely invest in a .308 in the future because I wouldn't say a .223 is the most appropriate bullet for deer.



I went into the station and the FO said that they're very slow to process because its renewals season. AND that if i did receive a PULSE receipt that it usually meant something was or went wrong with my application. I was told to wait another month and if nothing came through to go back to them.

cookimonster

Mr. Speedy wrote: »

.... because I wouldn't say a .223 is the most appropriate bullet for deer. 

The .223 is not deer legal in this country.

Mr. Speedy wrote: »

.....AND that if i did receive a PULSE receipt that it usually meant something was or went wrong with my application. I was told to wait another month and if nothing came through to go back to them.

When you say PULSE receipt, do you mean the letter sent out by the District HQ acknowledging your application and saying it is being processed. If so then this 'receipt' is standard practice if not a bit redundant when it arrives days before, with or after your grant letter. It's news to me that it would imply any potential issue with your application. To me its the other way around, not receiving one would get my alarm bells ringing.
To be honest for a first time application you haven't even begin the waiting process. Some lads here will tell you they get theirs processed as fast as the post can deliver the paperwork others wait well beyond the recommended time line. My average wait is three weeks, before that the incompetent Guard handling the paperwork for an painful couple of years regularly let everything lapse, go missing etc etc, thank the Sweet Jesus he's moved on.

cookimonster

For your information:

The Garda Commissioner's Guidelines as to the Practical Application and Operation of the Firearms Acts, 1925-2009.
Issued in accordance with section 3A of The Firearms Act, 1925 as inserted by section 31 of the Criminal Justice Act, 2006.

CHAPTER 2: APPLICATIONS FOR FIREARMS CERTIFICATES - APPEALS TO DISTRICT COURT - REVOCATIONS

Each application for a firearm certificate shall be made on the application form FCA 1 at the applicant's local Garda station and two recently taken passport size photographs of the applicant shall be attached to this form. The application form will be reviewed against a checklist by the receiving Garda (in the presence of the applicant if possible) to ensure that it is completed in full. The identity of the applicant will be confirmed. The application will then be forwarded by the receiving Garda as soon as is practicable to the superintendent or chief superintendent (if the application refers to a restricted firearm). All applications shall be examined at the district office (or divisional office if the application refers to a restricted firearm) to ensure their validity and written notification will be forwarded to the applicant of its validity within 10 working days of receipt.
Applicants will be informed that additional information may be required of them.

COMMUNICATION OF THE DECISION ON THE GRANTING OF A FIREARMS CERTIFICATE
Section 3 of the Firearms Act 1925 as amended, provides that a decision on an application for a firearms certificate or its renewal shall be given within 3 months from the date on which the applicant submitted a completed application. However, every effort shall be made by issuing persons to ensure that all new applications and applications to renew are processed as soon as is practicable. If a decision on an application is not made within 3 months, then under section 15A of the Firearms Act 1925, as inserted by section 43 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 this is deemed to be a refusal.

..... so as you can see there are a few desks and hands your paper work must pass before its granted or refused. The previous Garda re-org in relation to shifts, rosters etc and the staffing levels have thrown a spanner in some of the works.

BattleCorp

Rennaws wrote: »

A day at the range is a different story though where a couple of hundred rounds would be gone in an afternoon.

You'd want deep pockets if you are shooting a couple of hundred .223 rounds in an afternoon. Especially if they are decent quality.

Mr. Speedy

cookimonster wrote: »

The .223 is not deer legal in this country.

Exactly what I was implying

cookimonster wrote: »

When you say PULSE receipt, do you mean the letter sent out by the District HQ acknowledging your application and saying it is being processed. If so then this 'receipt' is standard practice if not a bit redundant when it arrives days before, with or after your grant letter. It's news to me that it would imply any potential issue with your application. To me its the other way around, not receiving one would get my alarm bells ringing.
To be honest for a first time application you haven't even begin the waiting process. Some lads here will tell you they get theirs processed as fast as the post can deliver the paperwork others wait well beyond the recommended time line. My average wait is three weeks, before that the incompetent Guard handling the paperwork for an painful couple of years regularly let everything lapse, go missing etc etc, thank the Sweet Jesus he's moved on.

I mean the letter acknowledging that they have my credentials on the PULSE system and that it is being processed yes. The FO quite literally said if you receive these it more often than not means that there is a problem with your application.
Sure look its nothing to worry about i mean its not like the foxes are killing my lambs or anything......



But thank you all for your replies, these discussions are very thought provoking and entertaining!

Cass

Mr. Speedy wrote: »

The FO quite literally said if you receive these it more often than not means that there is a problem with your application.

Wrong.

Look the best thing you can do is ignore this guy. He is either ignorant or purposely leading you astray.

The receipt is an acknowledgement your application was received. Its meant to be sent out to you when you submit the application, but as i've explained before it only gets sent out when your details are entered onto PULSE and that only happens when the application is processed.

Mr. Speedy

Cass wrote: »

Wrong.

Look the best thing you can do is ignore this guy. He is either ignorant or purposely leading you astray.

The receipt is an acknowledgement your application was received. Its meant to be sent out to you when you submit the application, but as i've explained before it only gets sent out when your details are entered onto PULSE and that only happens when the application is processed.

Thats perfect so! Thanks a million Cass

JohnFitz2332

Cass wrote: »

Wrong.

Look the best thing you can do is ignore this guy. He is either ignorant or purposely leading you astray.

The receipt is an acknowledgement your application was received. Its meant to be sent out to you when you submit the application, but as i've explained before it only gets sent out when your details are entered onto PULSE and that only happens when the application is processed.

I never got one. For either license...

Cass

That happens to as i said earlier in the thread, however the receiving of the receipt NEVER indicates a problem. EVER.

The fact a Garda responsible for processing firearm license applications tells someone that if they receive a receipt letter that its a problem is ignorant to how the process works, and dangerously ill informed. This ignorance is only highlighted by the fact he took the OPs application, and i don't give a Rat's ass if the OP ceded to this change, and changed the amount the OP applied for. Sure while he is at it why not change the caliber or make of the rifle because he feels the OP shouldn't have the one he wants t apply for?

Do you see the danger in this. It's also not just an opinion its happening "off paper". By that i mean people are being told at the desk by whomever is there or later on the phone by the Sergeant or other Garda dealing with firearms that such and such will not work and they are going to change the details. It's vitality important that people realise if anything is done "off paper" then there is no trail and hence no ability to appeal.

If the OP wanted 300 he should have applied for 300. Had it not been granted the minimum he would have got would be 100. Instead he has now applied for 150 and may not even get that. I understand it takes time to build up, but if you follow the guides we set out in the important information thread on how to validate a higher allowance and have a genuine need there is no reason not to get it. Remember the Commissioner's guidelines are a useful tool for both sides of the aisle and while they address matters of law the narrative is a best practice implementation of the law, and the guidelines themselves are NOT law. So the amounts set out in the Commissioner's guidelines are not legally binding.

This attitude of "i don't want to piss anyone off" is useful to bear in mind as it's always better to have a good working relationship with AGS, but it is also a step back and weakening in position for shooters. We don't have to have AGS as friends only that they do their job. If AGS members don't want to be arsed with Firearms, applications, etc. then take the rest of it off them (as the fees were) and create a centralised centre with Garda oversight and civilian staff to do it.

CorkCBR6

Mr. Speedy wrote: »

You'd imagine they would 100% call them just to make sure you're not a complete nutcase or maybe they make that judgement when they see you in the station;)

I saw a post earlier that said for someone to just apply for the 'normal amount' of ammunition of 1000 rounds i think. I put down 300 on my application and the FO said, and I quote "Jesus christ are ya planning on carrying out a mass shooting" Scribbled it out and threw down 150 he was satisfied with that.

I had 525 rounds (bulk value pack) and he changed it to 550!

meathstevie

JohnFitz2332 wrote: »

Sometimes they don't call your referees at all

Not that uncommon at all that they're not contacted at all if you're generally known as a good egg, especially in a small rural locality where the local Gardai know the local lay of the land fairly well.

meathstevie

Peppa Cig wrote: »

On the subject of ammo volumes. If your licensed for say 500 rounds what controls are in place to stop you accumulating 1000 rounds. Am I right to say nothing?

**not advocating breech of conditions (I appreciate the consequences).

In the real world very little bar your law abiding nature that got you in a position to apply for a licence for starters.

If, and it does happen, you get caught it's an appointment with the district court judge and probably a fine and good luck getting another licence for the foreseeable future.

That possibility for most of if not near all of us is sufficient deterrent to not do stupid stuff that'll mean the end of your hobby.

meathstevie

Don't get too hung up on having or not having received particular letters.

On many an occasion I have received the letter from the Super's office that my application was being considered after I had paid for and received the licence..... . It would appear that dealing with the actual application in the local district takes precedent over sending out letters.