Rep of Ireland vs Gibraltar Euro Qualifier

siblers

siblers wrote: »

Surely ten points was a reasonable expectation?

No, I expected to lose to Denmark

sonic85

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

What real changes is Mick gonna make in 8 games is it? When Kenny comes in he'll have 6 games in the nation's league to experiment and make the changes he wants. Mick is a transitional manager brought in as a stop gap, he wasn't brought in to make real change as that will be for Kenny who will hopefully be given some time to make the changes.

If he's a transitional manager should he not be facilitating the transition? Is that not part of his remit? Like it's all well and good Mick coming in and being all positive in interviews but if his teams are going to serve up tripe like tonight then what's the point? We'd be better off with Kenny in charge right now and give him a couple of tournaments to experiment and start blooding new players in rather than prolong the rubbish.

Strumms

greenfield21 wrote: »

The only way we can win games is with hoof ball, these players don't have the quality to play like other teams Mon knew this.

Against the better teams and good teams around us 100% yes, against Gibraltar?

johnnyryan89

sonic85 wrote: »

If he's a transitional manager should he not be facilitating the transition? Is that not part of his remit? Like it's all well and good Mick coming in and being all positive in interviews but if his teams are going to serve up tripe like tonight then what's the point? We'd be better off with Kenny in charge right now and give him a couple of tournaments to experiment and start blooding new players in rather than prolong the rubbish.

If Kenny came in now and tried to make wholesale changes he wouldn't last until next summer. It's why Mick was brought in to oversee this campaign and improve the mood in camp while Kenny works with the younger players who'll hopefully get their chances in the next nation leagues.

And what changes could Mick make to help Kenny when he finally takes over, seeing as both managers will have different ideas and styles. Mick could make wholesale changes and then when Kenny comes in he could make even more wholesale changes and undo what changes Mick made. Best thing Mick can leave behind for Kenny is a positive dressing room and let Kenny make his changes next autumn.

Ohmeha

That was agonising to watch us struggle so badly to create and finish in the final third, no question since the 7-0 win 5 years ago that the gap between us and them has narrowed mostly due to us declining rather than them improving so much

Ultimately 10 points from the first 4 four games was the least we needed to have a chance of qualifying ahead of the final 4 games so I am satisfied but we all know we have to vastly improve with what have got

Strumms

Ohmeha wrote: »

That was agonising to watch us struggle so badly to create and finish in the final third, no question since the 7-0 win 5 years ago that the gap between us and them has narrowed mostly due to us declining rather than them improving so much

Ultimately 10 points from the first 4 four games was the least we needed to have a chance of qualifying ahead of the final 4 games so I am satisfied but we all know we have to vastly improve with what have got

With you 100%, we struggled to create 7 chances all game, at home to Gibraltar. We only had 5 attempts on target tonight, all game, vs Gibraltar. At home. :rolleyes:

Guy:Incognito

Fred The Red wrote: »

Good result

I'd have ripped your hand off if someone's had said 10 points at the start of the campaign

6 of them were complete gimme points right from the off and they were turned in to fairly hard work.

These lads are part timers. A decent league of Ireland side should have been able to handily see them off twice.

Guy:Incognito

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

What real changes is Mick gonna make in 8 games is it? When Kenny comes in he'll have 6 games in the nation's league to experiment and make the changes he wants. Mick is a transitional manager brought in as a stop gap, he wasn't brought in to make real change as that will be for Kenny who will hopefully be given some time to make the changes.

Why bother with him at all? All thats happening is Kenny's transitional period is pushed back 2 years. 3 or 4 years is a good chunk of a few players career to effectively write off.

Nerdlingr

Green&Red wrote: »

We started McClean

So I’ll ask again - is there a reason Brady didn’t start?

And I'll answer again - because he's been sh*te.

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

6 of them were complete gimme points right from the off and they were turned in to fairly hard work.

These lads are part timers. A decent league of Ireland side should have been able to handily see them off twice.

Not really relative to the point I made. We have ten. I'd have taken that easily prior the group starting.

gormdubhgorm

Nerdlingr wrote: »

And I'll answer again - because he's been sh*te.

Coming back from long term injury, not risked at the start.
Played about 60 v Denmark.

LuckyLloyd

Job done. It was laboured and a grind, but all we needed was a win.

Hogan and Maguire were toxic, awful performances. Nice to see McClean and Brady combine for the goal.

Off to a great start. Four hard games in the autumn ahead.

gormdubhgorm

Just glancing through some of the comments - there seems to be more energy/bite/fight on this thread, than today's game!

AidoEirE

Hogan was bad but he did put a shift in and tried, just wasnt his day, compared to some of the lads he worked hard to keep going to get his goal.

LuckyLloyd

AidoEirE wrote: »

Hogan was bad but he did put a shift in and tried, just wasnt his day, compared to some of the lads he worked hard to keep going to get his goal.

Silly offsides, sloppy touches, lack of quality. I wouldn’t be rushing him back in the lineup personally.

All the lads tried, that’s a given.

Gonad

You have to imagine Denmark and Switzerland will win home and away against Georgia and Gibraltar .

So we have to now win away to Georgia also .

The games that will really matter will be the 4 against Denmark and Switzerland

From a possible 12 points against those we have 1 point from 1 game .

Next up is Switzerland in Dublin and that’s going to be the game that decides it in my opinion

Win that and we have a great chance .

Lose and we we then have to go the Georgia and try to win that game .

Have a feeling it all rests on the next game .

c.p.w.g.w

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why bother with him at all? All thats happening is Kenny's transitional period is pushed back 2 years. 3 or 4 years is a good chunk of a few players career to effectively write off.

Kenny is working with the 21's hopefully some of those guys will develop and he can make use of them in the senior side when he takes over

johnnyryan89

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why bother with him at all? All thats happening is Kenny's transitional period is pushed back 2 years. 3 or 4 years is a good chunk of a few players career to effectively write off.

Because Kenny would barely get the one campaign if he was asked to come in and try to clean up the mess left behind by MONROY with how toxic they left the dressing room behind them and all the while trying to implement his own changes.

And it's not like he's sitting at home playing with himself waiting to take over. He's working with the young players like Idah, Connolly, O'Connor, Molumby etc etc who he'll be looking to blood in to the senior side over the next few years which he'll get next September in the nation's league after spending 16 months exclusively working with those players.

And whose having 3 or 4 years written off their careers waiting for Kenny to take over?

AidoEirE

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Silly offsides, sloppy touches, lack of quality. I wouldn’t be rushing him back in the lineup personally.

All the lads tried, that’s a given.

Id give him another start, if its not working then switch at HT. Nothing worse for a player to be dropped after a poor game, another go should be given, but i see where your coming from.

PARlance

Gonad wrote: »

You have to imagine Denmark and Switzerland will win home and away against Georgia and Gibraltar .

So we have to now win away to Georgia also .

The games that will really matter will be the 4 against Denmark and Switzerland

From a possible 12 points against those we have 1 point from 1 game .

Next up is Switzerland in Dublin and that’s going to be the game that decides it in my opinion

Win that and we have a great chance .

Lose and we we then have to go the Georgia and try to win that game .

Have a feeling it all rests on the next game .

Wouldn't take that from it. You start by saying Georgia away is a must win, it is imo, a loss against the Swiss won't make it anymore of a must win.

If we beat Georgia away, then a win at home to Denmark sees us guaranteed second spot even if we lost twice against the Swiss... I think.

Edit: I thought wrong, we need a draw against the Swiss to be guaranteed.

sligeach

What game were RTE watching with those ratings?

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/0610/1054566-player-ratings-robinson-the-avivas-shining-light/

Richard Hillman

sligeach wrote: »

What game were RTE watching with those ratings?

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/0610/1054566-player-ratings-robinson-the-avivas-shining-light/

Jeff Hendrick with a 7 FFS. He looked like he had 4 pints before the game

lawred2

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Jeff Hendrick with a 7 FFS. He looked like he had 4 pints before the game

and Duffy?

He spent the entire evening lurching about the place giving the ball away

GLaDOS

Hendrick has done very little since Euro 2016 to justify a starting spot

yourdeadwright

Duffy is good when its back to the walls stuff but when we have the ball he is pretty awful

Its mental with a 3 week training camp that nothing was planned for Doherty , Surely they could have came up wit ha play and use last nights game to try it out, He is one of our 3 best players we should be trying to get him in the team ,

gormdubhgorm

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Because Kenny would barely get the one campaign if he was asked to come in and try to clean up the mess left behind by MONROY with how toxic they left the dressing room behind them and all the while trying to implement his own changes.

Maybe you are too young to remember the toxic atmosphere there was when Mick was manager back in his first tenture.
Ireland lost against Russia and the fools in the crowd were chanting Keano/Roy Keane.

Most managerial tenures end badly in the end.
The Irish team just do not have the players, changing the manager is not going to magically make them great.
Most play for second tier English clubs and are only playing for Ireland as it will advance thier careers, they jump at the chance to qualify for Ireland.


The sad fact is that until Irish people start supporting a national club side, the future of Irish soccer will not improve. Sending players to England at a very young age. And hoping they thrive and are not spat out and forgotten is not good planning.
The same cycle will continue and the citizenship rules - will be heavily leaned on - Hogan, Robinson, McGoldrick etc
The Good Friday agreement has given Ireland two players - Duffy and Mclean.

Ireland is on a wing on a prayer when trying to produce players because Irish people (mostly) refuse to support the Airtricity league.

It was not Trappatoni's fault, or MON's fault.
It is staring us right in the face.

I think it will get much worse.

yourdeadwright

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Maybe you are too young to remember the toxic atmosphere there was when Mick was manager back in his first tenture.
Ireland lost against Russia and the fools in the crowd were chanting Keano/Roy Keane.

Most managerial tenures end badly in the end.
The Irish team just do not have the players, changing the manager is not going to magically make them great.
Most play for second tier English clubs and are only playing for Ireland as it will advance thier careers, they jump at the chance to qualify for Ireland.


The sad fact is that until Irish people start supporting a national club side, the future of Irish soccer will not improve. Sending players to England at a very young age. And hoping they thrive and are not spat out and forgotten is not good planning.
The same cycle will continue and the citizenship rules - will be heavily leaned on - Hogan, Robinson, McGoldrick etc
The Good Friday agreement has given Ireland two players - Duffy and Mclean.

Ireland is on a wing on a prayer when trying to produce players because Irish people (mostly) refuse to support the Airtricity league.

It was not Trappatoni's fault, or MON's fault.
It is staring us right in the face.

I think it will get much worse.

No point in closing the gate after the horse has bolted, its to late in thewday to try stop kids leaving for England, the Rugby done it correctly but they could see and learn from soccer's mistakes,

Try telling these 16 year olds they can't move to big clubs in England and have to stay here,
It simply isn't going to happen ,

That's even before you take wages into play
A lot of 17 year-olds in England are getting paid more than the star of the Airtricity league

gormdubhgorm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

No point in closing the gate after the horse has bolted, its to late in thewday to try stop kids leaving for England, the Rugby done it correctly but they could see and learn from soccer's mistakes,

Try telling these 16 year olds they can't move to big clubs in England and have to stay here,
It simply isn't going to happen ,

That's even before you take wages into play
A lot of 17 year-olds in England are getting paid more than the star of the Airtricity league

It's never too late it starts with changing the mindset of the Irish soccer supporter and the standard in Ireland will improve overtime.
It is pure lazilness to depend almost completely on another foreign nation to 'look after' Irish football.
Do you think they have the best interests of Irish football as thier priority?

Gradually if soccer people in Ireland start going to Irish club games, the crowds will improve, atmosphere will improve, finances will improve.
As a result players from Ireland will stay in Ireland longer, transfer fees will increase.
The fault of the state of Irish football lies squarely on the Irish soccer supporter who drifted away from Irish club football in the 1960's, and the administrators who let it happen.

It seems like madness to me that people still think it is any current/past national managers fault. He can only work with what he has got.

yourdeadwright

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It's never too late it starts with changing the mindset of the Irish soccer supporter and the standard in Ireland will improve overtime.
It is pure lazilness to depend almost completely on another foreign nation to 'look after' Irish football.
Do you think they have the best interests of Irish football as thier priority?

Gradually if soccer people in Ireland start going to Irish club games, the crowds will improve, atmosphere will improve, finances will improve.
As a result players from Ireland will stay in Ireland longer, transfer fees will increase.
The fault of the state of Irish football lies squarely on the Irish soccer supporter who drifted away from Irish club football in the 1960's, and the administrators who let it happen.

It seems like madness to me that people still think it is any current/past national managers fault. He can only work with what he has got.

People are only asking for the mangers to do better job with what they do have,

It'll take 30 years plus to change the attitude of kids wanting to go to England, There's to much money involved for there to be a quick fix,

gormdubhgorm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

People are only asking for the mangers to do better job with what they do have,

It'll take 30 years plus to change the attitude of kids wanting to go to England, There's to much money involved for there to be a quick fix,

What about the attitude of Irish soccer fans that is where it starts.
Is that going to take 30 years?

How are the managers going to turn a pool of players that they have into a great team.
People are deluding themselves.
Trapatoni - World Class manager
Martin O'Neill - top class manager

Now people expect Mick McCarthy to work miracles.
People already seem to be turning Doherty in the new mythical saviour already despite the fact he plays a wing back in a 3-5-2 at club level (with better players)
Before it was Wes Hoolahan, before that it was Andy Reid....

People need to wake up and cop themselves on.

yourdeadwright

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What about the attitude of Irish soccer fans that is where it starts.
Is that going to take 30 years?

How are the managers going to turn a pool of players that they have into a great team.
People are deluding themselves.
Trapatoni - World Class manager
Martin O'Neill - top class manager

Now people expect Mick McCarthy to work miracles.
People already seem to be turning Doherty in the new mythical saviour already despite the fact he plays a wing back in a 3-5-2 at club level (with better players)
Before it was Wes Hoolahan, before that it was Andy Reid....

People need to wake up and cop themselves on.

I think people are just asking to use our best players in the best way possible,

No ones expecting us to win anything but be nice to see us use our best players ,I don't think anyone is expecting miracles,

We are a small county and soccer isn't even our national sport, so of course we aren't going to be fantastic and that's ok ,

Also if you think in the year 2019 MON is a world class manger you need to put the crack pipe down

, World class manger my hoop sure if he's so world class how did he end up at Forrest ? He's a playing legend there and there own fans didn't even want him

osarusan

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What about the attitude of Irish soccer fans that is where it starts.
Is that going to take 30 years?

How are the managers going to turn a pool of players that they have into a great team.
People are deluding themselves.
Trapatoni - World Class manager
Martin O'Neill - top class manager

Now people expect Mick McCarthy to work miracles.
People already seem to be turning Doherty in the new mythical saviour already despite the fact he plays a wing back in a 3-5-2 at club level (with better players)
Before it was Wes Hoolahan, before that it was Andy Reid....

People need to wake up and cop themselves on.

There is a vast ocean of middle ground between being a great team and labouring to a win against a team ranked 195 in the world.

Do we have the kind of players that can be built into a great team? No.

Do we have the kind of players that should be able to swat Gibraltar aside without breaking a sweat? Yes.

gormdubhgorm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think people are just asking to use our best players in the best way possible,

No ones expecting us to win anything but be nice to see us use our best players ,I don't think anyone is expecting miracles,

We are a small county and soccer isn't even our national sport, so of course we aren't going to be fantastic and that's ok ,

Also if you think in the year 2019 MON is a world class manger you need to put the crack pipe down

, World class manger my hoop sure if he's so world class how did he end up at Forrest ? He's a playing legend there and there own fans didn't even want him

Well MON did get Celtic to a UEFA cup final, won a League Cup with a mediocre Leicester side and kept them up, he also gave Villa well inside the top half of the table finishes.
He qualified with a very poor Irish side for Euro 2016.
He can't be that bad?

Mick McCarthey in contrast has been a relegation battler/second tier England manager for most of his managerial career.
But now he is going to save Irish football?

Have you seen how Doherty plays in a back four or on the right of midfield?
It does not suit his game.
Plus Ireland's best player is already at right back and Stevens is a solid FB

Have Ireland got the quality centre backs to play three at the back?
You need at least one ball playing one - but Rice jumped ship.

gormdubhgorm

osarusan wrote: »

There is a vast ocean of middle ground between being a great team and labouring to a win against a team ranked 195 in the world.

Do we have the kind of players that can be built into a great team? No.

Do we have the kind of players that should be able to swat Gibraltar aside without breaking a sweat? Yes.

Well it is extremely difficult for a limited team like Ireland to break down a team like Gibraltar.
Gibraltar are going to sit back.
Ireland have no dominating midfielder that can past the ball and unlock a mass defence.
Ireland also has no decent strikers that can finish a chance or sniff one out.
They have lads that run around a lot with energy, but no real plan.
What do you expect the quality is not there.

I not be surprised if Ireland only get one point out of thier next three games - the one point will probably be Georgia.
And Switzerland are likely to win home and away.

Then it will be a chorus of Mick out.

Ferris_Bueller

Countries like Bosnia (4-0 & 5-0), Greece (4-0), Macedonia (4-0), Estonia (6-0) and Georgia (3-0) have been able to beat Gibraltar with more ease than we have in the last 2 years. How is it that we are only able to beat them 2-0?

Zeek12

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well it is extremely difficult for a limited team like Ireland to break down a team like Gibraltar.
Gibraltar are going to sit back.
Ireland have no dominating midfielder that can past the ball and unlock a mass defence.
Ireland also has no decent strikers that can finish a chance or sniff one out.
They have lads that run around a lot with energy, but no real plan.
What do you expect the quality is not there.

I not be surprised if Ireland only get one point out of thier next three games - the one point will probably be Georgia.
And Switzerland are likely to win home and away.

Then it will be a chorus of Mick out.

He's leaving at the end of this Euros campaign anyway.
The chorus will be fairly irrelevant.

yourdeadwright

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well MON did get Celtic to a UEFA cup final, won a League Cup with a mediocre Leicester side and kept them up, he also gave Villa well inside the top half of the table finishes.
He qualified with a very poor Irish side for Euro 2016.
He can't be that bad?

Mick McCarthey in contrast has been a relegation battler/second tier England manager for most of his managerial career.
But now he is going to save Irish football?

Have you seen how Doherty plays in a back four or on the right of midfield?
It does not suit his game.
Plus Ireland's best player is already at right back and Stevens is a solid FB

Have Ireland got the quality centre backs to play three at the back?
You need at least one ball playing one - but Rice jumped ship.

Going form he is World Class to he can't be that bad is a big difference,

Save Irish football from what ?

Where poor we will be for the foreseeable future , where just not a good soccer nation ,we all know that

Players seem happier with MON gone so that was the best thing to do ,

We will never know if Doherty can play else where if we don't try it,

Last night was a great chance to try it with 3 weeks prep and poor opposition, It better than a friendly as you had 3 weeks prep and the games is taking serious by both side and not a whole host of changes half way through , Just think it was an opportunity missed ,

osarusan

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I not be surprised if Ireland only get one point out of thier next three games - the one point will probably be Georgia.
And Switzerland are likely to win home and away.

It would not surprise me if we lose the remaining 3 games against Switzerland and Denmark. The point away on Friday was excellent, if fairly lucky.

But again, there is a vast vast gulf in quality between that and Gibraltar. They are absolute garbage. They take hammerings practically every time they play, from teams worse than us.

It doesn't logically follow at all that a team that will be lucky to get any points against Switzerland and Denmark will struggle to beat a team like Gibraltar.

RoryMac

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It's never too late it starts with changing the mindset of the Irish soccer supporter and the standard in Ireland will improve overtime.
It is pure lazilness to depend almost completely on another foreign nation to 'look after' Irish football.
Do you think they have the best interests of Irish football as thier priority?

Gradually if soccer people in Ireland start going to Irish club games, the crowds will improve, atmosphere will improve, finances will improve.
As a result players from Ireland will stay in Ireland longer, transfer fees will increase.
The fault of the state of Irish football lies squarely on the Irish soccer supporter who drifted away from Irish club football in the 1960's, and the administrators who let it happen.

It seems like madness to me that people still think it is any current/past national managers fault. He can only work with what he has got.

While I would agree that the LOI needs more support from both the FAI and Irish football fans that won't stop young players wanting to go to England. The LOI will never offer the 'promise' of riches that can be found in England and the facilities here will take decades if ever to match the ones available at EPL or Championship club academies.

Of course English clubs don't have the best interests of Irish football as a priority, they don't have the best interests of English football as a priority either, they prioritise the clubs interests. If players don't make the grade required they will be dumped. All clubs world wide do it every day of the week.

It's picking up the young players spat out by the English system or ones that have developed at a slower pace in Ireland we need to concentrate our immediate efforts on imo, the kids dumped at this time of the year with no fall back and the FAI not offering any supports or guidance to.

The LOI needs to be built up and it will benefit Irish football massively when/if it happens but there's no magic wand that can be waved to make it happen, finding a way to build attendances and interest in the LOI needs to be prioritised but no sign that will happen in the short term

Zeek12

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Countries like Bosnia (4-0 & 5-0), Greece (4-0), Macedonia (4-0), Estonia (6-0) and Georgia (3-0) have been able to beat Gibraltar with more ease than we have in the last 2 years. How is it that we are only able to beat them 2-0?

Its not long since we put 11 past them in two group games. EURO 2016 qualifying I think it was.

Since then we've lost the likes of Robbie, Wes, Johnnie Walters and a few others.

We simply don't have ready made replacements for those guys.

We are not very creative or clinical and I think we'll find the rest of this group tough going tbh.

Best things we have going for us are being difficult to beat, good attitude and a pretty solid defence. Lets hope that will stand to us.....but I'm not hugely hopeful it will be enough.

gormdubhgorm

RoryMac wrote: »

While I would agree that the LOI needs more support from both the FAI and Irish football fans that won't stop young players wanting to go to England. The LOI will never offer the 'promise' of riches that can be found in England and the facilities here will take decades if ever to match the ones available at EPL or Championship club academies.

Of course English clubs don't have the best interests of Irish football as a priority, they don't have the best interests of English football as a priority either, they prioritise the clubs interests. If players don't make the grade required they will be dumped. All clubs world wide do it every day of the week.

It's picking up the young players spat out by the English system or ones that have developed at a slower pace in Ireland we need to concentrate our immediate efforts on imo, the kids dumped at this time of the year with no fall back and the FAI not offering any supports or guidance to.

The LOI needs to be built up and it will benefit Irish football massively when/if it happens but there's no magic wand that can be waved to make it happen, finding a way to build attendances and interest in the LOI needs to be prioritised but no sign that will happen in the short term

Good point about no support net.
As for the LOI attendances if more people start going even to the odd home game of a team near them the fortunes of Irish football will change.
It just annoys me that these same fans are very quick to blame the international manager.
When the Irish soccer fan should be asking themselves what are they doing to help? -
do they have any interest in the club game in Ireland?
Have they even tried 4/5 games a season?
Have they ever even gone to a league of Ireland club game?

It comes back to fans that do not support Irish club teams and poor administrators.
Irish fans are not the greatest fans in the world, they are the most deluded.
Let's be honest.

PARlance

Can't really complain about McCarthy too much , the players clearly have more freedom to go out and try to play football, high press vs Denmark, no real hoofing on a scale like we had before... it's a progression of sorts. We're just not very good and especially when the onus is on us to break a team down. Yesterday was bleak but a different kind of bleak. We just don't have much class. Players like O'Dowda, Doherty etc may have made a difference, but not a huge one imo.

I would criticise him in relation to Doherty though. It isn't a big jump to assume that a wing back could do a job at right mid. Especially from a guy who had a great year in the Prem, when up against players (for the RM spot) who have played little to no ball or players playing at a lower level.

It was a big topic in the media when he took over and it was quite clear that he didn't fancy playing both. I got the impression that he didn't like it even being considered. He tried it and hung Doherty out to dry after the Gibraltar A game. On a day when nothing really worked, he singled it out and used it to end the experiment. Fair bit of stubbornness there imo but such is life. There seems to be a lift in mood in the camp and we're playing less like cavemen.

I'm not a massive fan of Mick tbh, Denmark at home in the final round could be a must win game for us. I wouldn't put it passed him to try it again for that, just so he had a "I told ya so" if we didn't get the result.

gormdubhgorm

PARlance wrote: »

I would criticise him in relation to Doherty though. It isn't a big jump to assume that a wing back could do a job at right mid. Especially from a guy who had a great year in the Prem, when up against players (for the RM spot) who have played little to no ball or players playing at a lower level.

Doherty was tried at RM v Gibraltar away and he was ineffective.
He was subbed at 56 minutes!

https://ie.soccerway.com/matches/2019/03/23/europe/european-championship-qualification/gibraltar/ireland-republic/2942768/

callaway92

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Countries like Bosnia (4-0 & 5-0), Greece (4-0), Macedonia (4-0), Estonia (6-0) and Georgia (3-0) have been able to beat Gibraltar with more ease than we have in the last 2 years. How is it that we are only able to beat them 2-0?

To give Ireland an excuse; I haven't looked at those results, but what part of the year were they in?

I would half excuse the lads who have come off a long season and most-likely zero motivation for the match.

PARlance

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Doherty was tried at RM v Gibraltar away and he was ineffective.
He was subbed at 56 minutes!

https://ie.soccerway.com/matches/2019/03/23/europe/european-championship-qualification/gibraltar/ireland-republic/2942768/

Well aware of that, maybe you should have read the next paragraph before pulling the trigger there. When you only beat Gibraltar 1-0 away, you'll have more than one ineffective player.

Here you go

"It was a big topic in the media when he took over and it was quite clear that he didn't fancy playing both. I got the impression that he didn't like it even being considered. He tried it and hung Doherty out to dry after the Gibraltar A game."

gormdubhgorm

callaway92 wrote: »

To give Ireland an excuse; I haven't looked at those results, but what part of the year were they in?

I would half excuse the lads who have come off a long season and most-likely zero motivation for the match.

What about the real fact which has nothing to do with the time of year.
The Irish players technical ability are much lower than many of the players from Georgia etc
So Ireland have to try and break down a wall of players sitting back with a sledge hammer rather than skill.
Corner kicks, free kicks, set plays etc

gormdubhgorm

PARlance wrote: »

Well aware of that, maybe you should have read the next paragraph before pulling the trigger there. When you only beat Gibraltar 1-0 away, you'll have more than one ineffective player.

Here you go

"It was a big topic in the media when he took over and it was quite clear that he didn't fancy playing both. I got the impression that he didn't like it even being considered. He tried it and hung Doherty out to dry after the Gibraltar A game."

I am not buying that hung out to dry stuff.

Look at the team Doherty thrives in - players with good technical ability playing in a 3-5-2 as a wingback. They play a slick passing counter attacking fast game.

If Ireland played a a 3-5-2 with wingbacks it would be a defensive 5-3-2 most of the time, the wingbacks would not be able to get forward because there is no midfielder to dictate play.
Even I can see this and I would hardly describe myself as a top class coach!

It seems Doherty is already being dressed up as the new 'Wes' or Andy Reid.
They are like viewed as like Messi when they are not in the side.
Then when they are in it reality hits home.

PARlance

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am not buying that hung out to dry stuff.

Look at the team Doherty thrives in - players with good technical ability playing in a 3-5-2 as a wingback. They play a slick passing counter attacking fast game.

If Ireland played a a 3-5-2 with wingbacks it would be a defensive 5-3-2 most of the time, the wingbacks would not be able to get forward because there is no midfielder to dictate play.
Even I can see this and I would hardly describe myself as a top class coach!

It seems Doherty is already being dressed up as the new 'Wes' or Andy Reid.
They are like viewed as like Messi when they are not in the side.
Then when they are in it reality hits home.

I've no doubt you aren't. Your ability to read a post is questionable as well.

There's no suggestion from me that we should be changing our system/formation to accommodate Doherty so I'm not sure where you're off to with that. I thought I was quite clear in saying that it would be at RM. A wing back playing at RM isn't a massive leap.

Whether you see him in the Irish team or not, a little respect should be given for his good season rather than trying to diminish it by alluding that it's down to his teammates over him. It mightn't suit your point but be sensible and fair enough to give a bit of credit when it's due. He has been one of our best performers tjis year at Club level and he's doing it at a level higher than most.

I haven't seen anything like the Wes reaction with regards Doherty. Plenty of people questioning why one of our better players of 2019 isn't being given a proper chance and worked into a team rather than shutting the book after an away game against Gibraltar, a game when most players were poor.

When we rely on a late goal to put a gloss on a 2-0 home win against a team like Gibraltar... surely you can see why people would look to see/question if there's any changes out there that would improve things.

artanevilla

We have two excellent right backs, one of whom is the captain. You can't really fit both in an have them be effective imo. It's just one of those things and it's unfortunate that we don't have that problem in any other position.

Ferris_Bueller

sugarman wrote: »

What difference does it make if beat them 2-0 or 7-0? The points are still the same.

The main thing is we control the game and we did, we'd 72% and 19 attempts on goal while Gibraltar had 28% and 1 single shot.

Its not like they out played us and were getting chance after chance. There was no danger of them scoring at any point.

Our play in the final third was what was poor last night, poor crossing and shooting is the only reason the score wasnt higher.

We badly need to unearth a striker that can score and winger or 2 tat can actually beat their first man with a cross.

I agree that this is a results business and at the end of the day, whether it is 2-0 or 7-0 isn't the biggest deal in the world. It was concerning how little we struggled to create though in terms of real chances, we had plenty of possession, crosses, corners, shots but in terms of real chances we really struggled to create any. Not sure how this xG stat works (or if there is such a stat for last night?) but I would guess ours was pretty low. That is the concerning thing for me - how poor we are in the final third. I don't think it is simply down to the quality of players either. A lot of those other nations I listed aren't gifted with players either.