Rep of Ireland vs Gibraltar Euro Qualifier

Zeek12

artanevilla wrote: »

We have two excellent right backs, one of whom is the captain. You can't really fit both in an have them be effective imo. It's just one of those things and it's unfortunate that we don't have that problem in any other position.

Reminds me a bit of England having Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes all vying for two centre midfield roles.

You can try and shoehorn a player just to get him into the side, playing him out of his natural position.
But more often than not the results will be disappointing.

Doherty plays as a wing back in an attacking 3-5-2 team who move the ball quickly and who have two quality midfielders (in Neves and Moutinho) who can control the game, are creative and and have an exceptional passing range.

We are a very different side. Both in our tactical formation and ability.

I'd only consider Doherty on the wing as an option to get McClean out of the side and move someone like Brady, O'Dowda or Robinson over to the left. I think that might be an improvement.

But we won't see him replicate the same influence he has at Wolves.

callaway92

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What about the real fact which has nothing to do with the time of year.
The Irish players technical ability are much lower than many of the players from Georgia etc
So Ireland have to try and break down a wall of players sitting back with a sledge hammer rather than skill.
Corner kicks, free kicks, set plays etc

Yeah, and that's a good argument; but I'm taking all skill/class out of the picture here and looking at end of season...wanting to NOT play football..and especially not play against Gibraltar.

Motivation is a key thing to look at here in hindsight in my eyes.

I'm upset at the performance too, but looking at it with an open mindset probably makes me a little bit less angry.

pjohnson

Zeek12 wrote: »

Reminds me a bit of England having Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes all vying for two centre midfield roles.

You can try and shoehorn a player just to get him into the side, playing him out of his natural position.
But more often than not the results will be disappointing.

Doherty plays as a wing back in an attacking 3-5-2 team who move the ball quickly and who have two quality midfielders (in Neves and Moutinho) who can control the game, are creative and and have an exceptional passing range.

We are a very different side. Both in our tactical formation and ability.

I'd only consider Doherty on the wing as an option to get McClean out of the side and move someone like Brady, O'Dowda or Robinson over to the left. I think that might be an improvement.

But we won't see him replicate the same influence he has at Wolves.

Yep. The Doherty at Wolves will never be the Doherty at Ireland unless we change our tactics and style to suit him, however even for right wing back if we did change everything he would still need to displace Coleman and take the position.

gormdubhgorm

callaway92 wrote: »

Yeah, and that's a good argument; but I'm taking all skill/class out of the picture here and looking at end of season...wanting to NOT play football

What about the fact that they can't play football it is proven time and again under different managers they just are not capable.
There is no Irish Modric or Xavi to make that happen in Ireland.
A team needs a creative fulcrum to play football, a fella who can play with his head up looking for forward passes.

Irish central midfielders are midfielders of the destroying variety, they try and stop others from playing thier game rather than be creative forces.

callaway92

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What about the fact that they can't play football it is proven time and again under different managers they just are not capable.
There is no Irish Modric or Xavi to make that happen in Ireland.
A team needs a creative fulcrum to play football, a fella who can play with his head up looking for forward passes.

Irish central midfielders are midfielders of the destroying variety, they try and stop others from playing thier game rather than be creative forces.

I meant just not play a match in my post; not 'Football' as in 'Total football'.

I'd say the last thing they wanted to do was play 90 mins with Gibraltar when they're all flying off on hols today.

gormdubhgorm

pjohnson wrote: »

Yep. The Doherty at Wolves will never be the Doherty at Ireland unless we change our tactics and style to suit him, however even for right wing back if we did change everything he would still need to displace Coleman and take the position.

You must be joking Ireland would need to enter the transfer market for that to happen, or maybe slightly more realistically get a few talented uncapped Brazilian's or Portuguese to live in Ireland for five years.
Have you looked at the teams Irish players play for?
Have you looked at thier technical ability can they hold on the ball?
Find a sliderule pass?

pjohnson

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You must be joking Ireland would need to enter the transfer market for that to happen, or maybe slightly more realistically get a few talented uncapped Brazilian's or Portuguese to live in Ireland for five years.
Have you looked at the teams Irish players play for?
Have you looked at thier technical ability can they hold on the ball?
Find a sliderule pass?

Exactly my point really. Those thinking we can just stick Doherty at right mid and reap the rewards are deluded.

And even if we did change formation Coleman would be picked ahead of him anyway.

RoryMac

callaway92 wrote: »

Yeah, and that's a good argument; but I'm taking all skill/class out of the picture here and looking at end of season...wanting to NOT play football..and especially not play against Gibraltar.

Motivation is a key thing to look at here in hindsight in my eyes.

I'm upset at the performance too, but looking at it with an open mindset probably makes me a little bit less angry.

This squad of players also don't seem to gain anything from playing at home, in fact I'd say in the last 4 or 5 years we tend to play with more confidence away from home.

gormdubhgorm

PARlance wrote: »

I thought I was quite clear in saying that it would be at RM. A wing back playing at RM isn't a massive leap.

I was explaining alternatives. Because RM does not suit Doherty's game he likes to be running on the ball into space from deep WB.

He was badly shown up at RM against Gibraltar.
What would he be like against better sides?

gormdubhgorm

RoryMac wrote: »

This squad of players also don't seem to gain anything from playing at home, in fact I'd say in the last 4 or 5 years we tend to play with more confidence away from home.

I think that is because Ireland can sit deep away and the onus is on the other team to create.
Think of Ireland as a better Gibraltar team, against an opposition they are inferior to.
It is the same thing.
Then hope for corners, free kicks, penalties.

gormdubhgorm

pjohnson wrote: »

Exactly my point really. Those thinking we can just stick Doherty at right mid and reap the rewards are deluded.

And even if we did change formation Coleman would be picked ahead of him anyway.

Yeah unfortunately it is not a football manager computer game.!

I was one of those who thought that 3-5-2 would be Ireland's answer.
Brady/Doherty LWB Coleman RWB.
But you need to have some creativity in midifield for that to work - Ireland have Zero.
Didi Hamann looked like he wanted to shoot himself in studio after the game.
He could not believe some of the stuff he saw, and he told the truth.
While listening to Brady say stuff like Ireland are trying to pass the ball more....

RoryMac

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I think that is because Ireland can sit deep away and the onus is on the other team to create.
Think of Ireland as a better Gibraltar team, against an opposition they are inferior to.
It is the same thing.
Then hope for corners, free kicks, penalties.

Hard to disagree with that much as I'd like to

Banjaxed82

callaway92 wrote: »

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Countries like Bosnia (4-0 & 5-0), Greece (4-0), Macedonia (4-0), Estonia (6-0) and Georgia (3-0) have been able to beat Gibraltar with more ease than we have in the last 2 years. How is it that we are only able to beat them 2-0?

To give Ireland an excuse; I haven't looked at those results, but what part of the year were they in?

I would half excuse the lads who have come off a long season and most-likely zero motivation for the match.

Qualifying for the European championships isn't motivation enough?

callaway92

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Qualifying for the European championships isn't motivation enough?

Again, it’s post-season, a home game against Gibraltar.

Like I said; I was in no-way impressed by last night but I genuinely think the players were happy to just go and win. Didn’t care how they did it.

alta stare

callaway92 wrote: »

Again, it’s post-season, a home game against Gibraltar.

Like I said; I was in no-way impressed by last night but I genuinely think the players were happy to just go and win. Didn’t care how they did it.

Im sorry but i think you are so wide of the Mark with that assumption. Surely the players would of wanted and should of tried to bang in 4 or 5 goals pass Gibralter. If they were happy with what happened last night then they should be embarrassed and dont deserve to wear our jersey.

pgj2015

callaway92 wrote: »

Again, it’s post-season, a home game against Gibraltar.

Like I said; I was in no-way impressed by last night but I genuinely think the players were happy to just go and win. Didn’t care how they did it.

mccarthy said the players were acting as if they had lost.

callaway92

alta stare wrote: »

Im sorry but i think you are so wide of the Mark with that assumption. Surely the players would of wanted and should of tried to bang in 4 or 5 goals pass Gibralter. If they were happy with what happened last night then they should be embarrassed and dont deserve to wear our jersey.

Fair enough - we’ll differ on that opinion so man.

I’m just thinking that the lads looked like they were ‘on the beach’ so-to-speak

callaway92

pgj2015 wrote: »

mccarthy said the players were acting as if they had lost.

Would be fairly shocked if that dressing room was disappointed. If they thought that they wouldn’t have celebrated the second goal.

gormdubhgorm

callaway92 wrote: »

Would be fairly shocked if that dressing room was disappointed. If they thought that they wouldn’t have celebrated the second goal.

alta stare wrote: »

Im sorry but i think you are so wide of the Mark with that assumption. Surely the players would of wanted and should of tried to bang in 4 or 5 goals pass Gibralter. If they were happy with what happened last night then they should be embarrassed and dont deserve to wear our jersey.

I thought Mick said the players were flat in the dressing room after it?
He said it looked like the players had lost!

So obviously from what Mick said we know damn well, they knew it was not good enough.

@00:40

As for the celebration of the second goal, it was fairly obvious to me that was one of relief - it eased the embarrassment slightly.