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Electric Showers

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    #32
    Stoner
    Registered Users Posts: 10,952 ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    Sleeper12 wrote:
    I tip my hat to you. I've seen this covered dozens of times by removing the heating can. This can only be done legally by a REC. Your solution keeps everyone within the law and seems to work

    Lol, I've posted on it back in the day.

    Two man job.

    Up into the attic

    Arm arm into the tank, turn on the shower you'll feel the pipe feeding the shower as the water is being sucked into it like mad,

    Squirt in the limescale remover and the person downstairs turns off the shower when they see it coming out of the shower.

    All that said make sure you take off the hose before you run the shower hours later otherwise you fill it and the shower head with all the crap you flushed making another job for yourself.


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    #33
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    John.G wrote: »
    That,s a novel way of doing things, I wonder has anyone made up a little rig with a circ pump and small tank to circulate hot water/chemical mix around the shower, it would probably be more effective/faster using hot water. I suppose, from a commercial point of view it may be cheaper for any customer to replace the heating can or install a water softener in the first instance.

    A small tank mounted at same upper height as main one and T into shower supply pipe via a 3 way valve and you could add descaler that way at intervals if water was very bad.


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    #34
    John.G
    Registered Users Posts: 3,514 ✭✭✭John.G


    Bruthal wrote: »
    A small tank mounted at same upper height as main one and T into shower supply pipe via a 3 way valve and you could add descaler that way at intervals if water was very bad.

    Just thinking there re effects of limescale on heating elements etc, If you can maintain the normal flow rate through the shower (heating can) then does the temperature eventually rise to its normal level?, ie, my shower (13 years) reaches (and always has) its normal running temperature in 12 to 17 secs. Does the build up of limescale then increase this time span and/or does the final temperature then reach its normal level? because if it doesn't then one would think that the heating element would burn out in a fairly short time due to overheating.

    Quote from somewhere or other:
    "Water containing 145 ppm of calcite, flowing at 3.5 litres per minute, produces in one year 4.8 kilograms of scale at 60ºc. At 80ºC this rises dramatically to 29.9 kilograms!"


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    #35
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    John.G wrote: »
    Just thinking there re effects of limescale on heating elements etc, If you can maintain the normal flow rate through the shower (heating can) then does the temperature eventually rise to its normal level?, ie, my shower (13 years) reaches (and always has) its normal running temperature in 12 to 17 secs. Does the build up of limescale then increase this time span and/or does the final temperature then reach its normal level? because if it doesn't then one would think that the heating element would burn out in a fairly short time due to overheating.

    Quote from somewhere or other:
    "Water containing 145 ppm of calcite, flowing at 3.5 litres per minute, produces in one year 4.8 kilograms of scale at 60ºc. At 80ºC this rises dramatically to 29.9 kilograms!"
    In simple terms, limescale insulates the elements from the cooling effect of the water, so the water does not heat as much as with clean elements, which in turn means the elements and associated parts overheat.

    A person might then over time,increase the temp dial as scale gets worse, which just reduces the water flow(which is how an electric shower temp dial increases water temp), making the overheating worse, so the overheat cutout will usually start operating at some stage.


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    #36
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I've noticed the following with our Triton showers. The temp becomes uncontrollable. It's either too hot one one power setting or too cold on the other. The actual temp control seems to have minimal effect. Our water has a lot of lime.

    What's actually failing here. Is it fixable and will flushing help?


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    #37
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,100 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Bruthal wrote:
    In simple terms, limescale insulates the elements from the cooling effect of the water, so the water does not heat as much as with clean elements, which in turn means the elements and associated parts overheat.


    This is why I don't like the idea of repairing old showers over 10/12 years old. The heat from the element transfers to the body of the heating can but also up to the terminals & into the cables attached to the element. The protection coating on the cable dries out & looses its fire resistance.

    I've seen many electric fires start this way.


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    #38
    killanena
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭killanena


    My parents have 2 electric showers in their house. I remember I was there when they were being installed and the man just said not to run both at the same time. No issues the past 7 years with them other then an airclog or 2 that my dad or I can fix.


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    #39
    John.G
    Registered Users Posts: 3,514 ✭✭✭John.G


    beauf wrote: »
    I've noticed the following with our Triton showers. The temp becomes uncontrollable. It's either too hot one one power setting or too cold on the other. The actual temp control seems to have minimal effect. Our water has a lot of lime.

    What's actually failing here. Is it fixable and will flushing help?

    The temp control is really a flow control, you may have the blockage in the shower head, to prove this, just run the shower with the shower hose disconnected at the shower itself and see if you can achieve a comfortable temperature, you can then clean out the shower head (plenty of posts on here or the plumbing section regarding this) if blockage is in the shower itself then go to posts 32&33. I assume shower filter is clean and pump (if not mains
    shower) is operating OK?.

    See post #1 here... https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=107444837


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    #40
    John.G
    Registered Users Posts: 3,514 ✭✭✭John.G


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    This is why I don't like the idea of repairing old showers over 10/12 years old. The heat from the element transfers to the body of the heating can but also up to the terminals & into the cables attached to the element. The protection coating on the cable dries out & looses its fire resistance.

    I've seen many electric fires start this way.

    I think I may have asked you previously but have you any photo of a badly limescaled heating can with the top cut off /removed, it would be interesting to see its condition.
    I have seen one of a hot water cylinder with a electric immersion, the heating element itself didn't have a huge coating of scale but the cylinder itself was more than "1/2" full of limescale that presumably had fallen off the heating element during its heating/cooling cycle, the hot water heating coil appeared to have more scaling.


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    #41
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,100 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    John.G wrote: »
    I think I may have asked you previously but have you any photo of a badly limescaled heating can with the top cut off /removed, it would be interesting to see its condition.
    I have seen one of a hot water cylinder with a electric immersion, the heating element itself didn't have a huge coating of scale but the cylinder itself was more than "1/2" full of limescale that presumably had fallen off the heating element during its heating/cooling cycle, the hot water heating coil appeared to have more scaling.


    I don't have any photos of one. I did cut away the heating can from one years ago. There was almost no room left for water in the can with the amount of limescale. It was so heavy to pick up & weighed twice, or more, than a new identical can. I'd rarely get a can like that in Dublin but next time I get one from Balbriggan (also in Dublin I keep reminding myself) I'll cut it up & post a photo


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    #42
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,100 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    John.G wrote: »
    I think I may have asked you previously but have you any photo of a badly limescaled heating can with the top cut off /removed, it would be interesting to see its condition.
    I have seen one of a hot water cylinder with a electric immersion, the heating element itself didn't have a huge coating of scale but the cylinder itself was more than "1/2" full of limescale that presumably had fallen off the heating element during its heating/cooling cycle, the hot water heating coil appeared to have more scaling.


    Not the worst I've ever seen but something to look at


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    #43
    John.G
    Registered Users Posts: 3,514 ✭✭✭John.G


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    This is why I don't like the idea of repairing old showers over 10/12 years old. The heat from the element transfers to the body of the heating can but also up to the terminals & into the cables attached to the element. The protection coating on the cable dries out & looses its fire resistance.

    I've seen many electric fires start this way.

    Didn't want to start a new thread but would you have any idea what the operating temperature is for the temperature regulator, item 16, in attachment for the above shower or for similar Triton showers with this outlet pipe regulator.
    Thanks.
    http://www.tritonshowers.co.uk/media/custom/upload/File-1379593830.pdf


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    #44
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,100 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    John.G wrote: »
    Didn't want to start a new thread but would you have any idea what the operating temperature is for the temperature regulator, item 16, in attachment for the above shower or for similar Triton showers with this outlet pipe regulator.
    Thanks.
    http://www.tritonshowers.co.uk/media/custom/upload/File-1379593830.pdf




    I don't recall that information John. This part hasn't been used in Irish Triton showers in the last 12 years or so


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