Marvel’s Avengers (PS4, Xbox One, Stadia, PC)

pixelburp

Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory; an action adventure game with the Avengers IP should have been a slam dunk, yet here we are. Another AAA game with the publisher's naked greed unfettered and the end result something more akin to mobile shovelware than anything else.

B.A._Baracus

pixelburp wrote: »

Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory; an action adventure game with the Avengers IP should have been a slam dunk, yet here we are. Another AAA game with the publisher's naked greed unfettered and the end result something more akin to mobile shovelware than anything else.

Probably the nature of the beast with such a high-profile (and money churning) franchise.

Am sure the licensing fee wasn't cheap. Am sure Disney got had their fingers in the pie more so than others (it is the avengers) and I am sure Square Enix wanted to recoup as much money as possible and make a ton more at the same time.

Gas isn't it.

SMC92Ian

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Probably the nature of the beast with such a high-profile (and money churning) franchise.

Am sure the licensing fee wasn't cheap. Am sure Disney got had their fingers in the pie more so than others (it is the avengers) and I am sure Square Enix wanted to recoup as much money as possible and make a ton more at the same time.

Gas isn't it.

Spider-Man doesn't have any of that crap nor the new Star Wars game coming, this is SE just wanting to milk Avengers and rob us all.

pixelburp

Indeed, was going to mention the Spider-Man game, showing "simple" formulas can do well. I don't doubt the license is pricy but at the end of the day that's because marvel is incredibly popular ATM. As said, an action adventure ,- along the lines of the Uncharted series maybe - would have sold millions if competent and made with care or love.

Instead, Square Enix looked at something like Destiny or Fortnite and went, with shameless, lustful avarice, "Us too!" But sure hey, that's the AAA space now. Everyone's in a race to be second and they'll gouge the shít outta us to get there.

B.A._Baracus

SMC92Ian wrote: »

Spider-Man doesn't have any of that crap nor the new Star Wars game coming, this is SE just wanting to milk Avengers and rob us all.

A good point.
Then as you say Square Enix got greedy. Thing is tho with the debacle of EA in recent times you think they would have held back.

SMC92Ian

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

A good point.
Then as you say Square Enix got greedy. Thing is tho with the debacle of EA in recent times you think they would have held back.

Makes it even worse now when EA are the ones not going micro ****e and loot boxes anymore.

gizmo

Penn wrote: »

I can actually see them changing their mtx/battlepass systems after a few months, due to backlash or lack of interest.

So, the current system allows for the following:

Penn buys the game at launch for €60.
The game comes with the base heroes, each of whom have their Hero Challenge Cards already unlocked and content therein available to earn through in-game play.
Some time after launch, a new hero is released - let's say it's Hawkeye.
Hawkeye himself and his mission content is free but his Hero Challenge Card is not.
Penn likes Hawkeye so much that he decides to purchase his Hero Challenge Card for 1000 Credits ($10) to allow him to unlock all of his related cosmetics through play.
Penn now has an indefinite amount of time to unlock all of this content for Hawkeye.
Once all of this content has been unlocked, Penn earns back the initial 1000 Credits spent on the Hawkeye Challenge Card and can now use that 1000C to unlock another hero's card in the future.

The only time you'll need to spend more money is if you no longer want to unlock items in a particular Hero Challenge Card and want to start with another. Reasons for this could include a new hero that you like even more than your current one being released or, more likely, the higher reward tiers on your current Card are taking too long to unlock and you're sick of the grind.

Now, what do you think they should change this to? Bearing in mind if your answer involves me having to spend money to unlock new heroes and story content, you suck.

SMC92Ian

gizmo wrote: »

So, the current system allows for the following:

Penn buys the game at launch for €60.
The game comes with the base heroes, each of whom have their Hero Challenge Cards already unlocked and content therein available to earn through in-game play.
Some time after launch, a new hero is released - let's say it's Hawkeye.
Hawkeye himself and his mission content is free but his Hero Challenge Card is not.
Penn likes Hawkeye so much that he decides to purchase his Hero Challenge Card for 1000 Credits ($10) to allow him to unlock all of his related cosmetics through play.
Penn now has an indefinite amount of time to unlock all of this content for Hawkeye.
Once all of this content has been unlocked, Penn earns back the initial 1000 Credits spent on the Hawkeye Challenge Card and can now use that 1000C to unlock another hero's card in the future.

The only time you'll need to spend more money is if you no longer want to unlock items in a particular Hero Challenge Card and want to start with another. Reasons for this could include a new hero that you like even more than your current one being released or, more likely, the higher reward tiers on your current Card are taking too long to unlock and you're sick of the grind.

Now, what do you think they should change this to? Bearing in mind if your answer involves me having to spend money to unlock new heroes and story content, you suck.

Wait hang on there, the tenner doesn't unlock everything? Am I reading that right? So you've to still grind away even after dropping money?

Penn

gizmo wrote: »

So, the current system allows for the following:

Penn buys the game at launch for €60.
The game comes with the base heroes, each of whom have their Hero Challenge Cards already unlocked and content therein available to earn through in-game play.
Some time after launch, a new hero is released - let's say it's Hawkeye.
Hawkeye himself and his mission content is free but his Hero Challenge Card is not.
Penn likes Hawkeye so much that he decides to purchase his Hero Challenge Card for 1000 Credits ($10) to allow him to unlock all of his related cosmetics through play.
Penn now has an indefinite amount of time to unlock all of this content for Hawkeye.
Once all of this content has been unlocked, Penn earns back the initial 1000 Credits spent on the Hawkeye Challenge Card and can now use that 1000C to unlock another hero's card in the future.

The only time you'll need to spend more money is if you no longer want to unlock items in a particular Hero Challenge Card and want to start with another. Reasons for this could include a new hero that you like even more than your current one being released or, more likely, the higher reward tiers on your current Card are taking too long to unlock and you're sick of the grind.

Now, what do you think they should change this to? Bearing in mind if your answer involves me having to spend money to unlock new heroes and story content, you suck.

Simplest answer is heroes and story content remain free. Everything unlockable for each character new and future with one in-game currency that can be earned through gameplay (without massive grind). People can buy the currency with real money if they wish.

At the very least its a less sh*tty (but still kinda sh*tty) alternative. It means content isn't locked for each new character and you don't have to grind on one character to unlock a bunch of crap you dont want (emotes, bland skins etc) to get your credits back to buy the card for another character.

johnny_ultimate

Charge 80 or 90 quid for the game. Every thing in the game unlocked and free in perpetuity. No grind. Bish bosh, all sorted (until it flops for being too expensive )

Penn

SMC92Ian wrote: »

Wait hang on there, the tenner doesn't unlock everything? Am I reading that right? So you've to still grind away even after dropping money?

From what I understand, everything for all the starting heroes is free and included. For each new hero released, the hero will be free, but to unlock any items for them you have to buy their challenge card for €10 (1000 credits, I don't know if those credits are earnable in the game through gameplay). Then if you complete their challenge card and unlock everything for them, you get your 1000 credits back as a reward, which you can then use to buy the card for another hero. Or pay another tenner because the cards are likely to be a serious grind.

So even though all heroes are free (which Square Enix were very proud to state), you have to pay for the privilege of unlocking stuff for them.

Oh, and from datamining, people have found there's likely to be about 17 DLC characters

Hawkeye
Spider-Man (PS4/PS5 only)
Ant-Man
Black Panther
Captain Marvel
Dr Strange
Falcon
Kate Bishop
Mar'Vell
Mockingbird
Quake
Scarlet Witch
She-Hulk
Vision
War Machine
Wasp
Winter Soldier

So like I said, I imagine within the next few months, they'll change the system in some way due to backlash or lack of uptake. Especially given the more-than-tepid response to the beta and likely upcoming reviews.

Zero-Cool

You know the grind is gonna be absolutely awful. I found it a grind just getting to the end of one of the missions doing the absolute bare minimum. Would be one thing if this was actually a fun game, just very badly handled overall which is a pity. I could be wrong and the full release become fun all of a sudden but unlikely.

pixelburp

How long til official release? It's probably too late to totally rip out the loot system altogether but the least they could on short notice do is lower the ceilings and values you need to hit. That should just be configuration stats.

Then of course SquareEnix can humblebrag at how they're "listening" to their valued consum...customers and giving people what they want.

Zero-Cool

pixelburp wrote: »

How long til official release? It's probably too late to totally rip out the loot system altogether but the least they could on short notice do is lower the ceilings and values you need to hit. That should just be configuration stats.

Then of course SquareEnix can humblebrag at how they're "listening" to their valued consum...customers and giving people what they want.

Deluxe owners get it tomorrow, the standard owners get it Friday (Tony Hawk day woohoo!)

gizmo

Penn wrote: »

Simplest answer is heroes and story content remain free. Everything unlockable for each character new and future with one in-game currency that can be earned through gameplay (without massive grind). People can buy the currency with real money if they wish.

At the very least its a less sh*tty (but still kinda sh*tty) alternative. It means content isn't locked for each new character and you don't have to grind on one character to unlock a bunch of crap you dont want (emotes, bland skins etc) to get your credits back to buy the card for another character.

Cool, so pulling on this thread a little bit if you don't mind, roughly speaking how many hours should you have to play the game to unlock each emote, takedown and outfit?

As an aside, Credits are their version of hard currency. They're only used for buying the Hero Challenge Card and directly purchasing cosmetic items from the Marketplace. They can be acquired either by purchase with actual money or from specific reward tiers in the Challenge Card.

Penn

gizmo wrote: »

Cool, so pulling on this thread a little bit if you don't mind, roughly speaking how many hours should you have to play the game to unlock each emote, takedown and outfit?

To be honest, it's a piece of string type of question. How many emotes, outfits etc are there per character? How many ways are there to earn more XP/credits quickly (eg. harder difficulty missions, specific requirements etc)?

But I would say if everything is unlockable with the same currency (by that I mean don't have multiple types of currency used for different things), you wouldn't have to unlock everything. You could pick and choose the things you wish to unlock for each character without having to grind through unlocking emotes you don't want to get the chance to unlock an outfit you want.

They could still also give bonus credits for unlocking everything for a character which could give you a headstart with the next character you move on to, to keep people playing (eg. a player knows Dr.Strange releasing in two weeks, starts playing Black Widow to do her challenge card and get bonus credits/XP to unlock stuff for Dr.Strange when he's released).

Given the number of characters as per the datamined list, you're talking 20+ characters by the end. I'd have thought 8-10 hours standard play to unlock everything for one character would be fairly reasonable, as most people aren't going to play all characters anyway, especially since so many seem to have likely similar movesets to others (Iron Man/War Machine, Hawkeye/Kate Bishop, Dr.Strange/Scarlet Witch etc).

Kingp35

I have never understood the attraction of cosmetics/emotes etc. The idea of spending money on them is ludicrous to me.

pixelburp

Kingp35 wrote: »

I have never understood the attraction of cosmetics/emotes etc. The idea of spending money on them is ludicrous to me.

If I'm reading the Fortnite culture correct, the intention is to manipulate younger demographics and their natural susceptibility towards peer pressure and shiny trinkets to use Mum/Dad's credit-card & purchase these cosmetics. AFAIK kids have been bullied for playing with "default" skins (cos as cute as kids can be, they're also horribly tribal too). And I guess some of the grown-up players buy up these worthless gewgaws too.

SMC92Ian

Wait the character maybe free but what about their powers and abilities? In the beta you had to grind hours to unlock those, you know the full game is gonna be an insane grind to get you to pay out.

As for cosmetics I like them, I play Overwatch and have a few skins, it's nice to have a change sometimes but what Overwatch does is better, you play a few matches and have lootboxes to open and coins, if you wanna pay you can but you can still unlock a skin easy in game.

This Avengers though has all sorts locked and isn't fun like Overwatch, "guard this post, defeat this wave" over and over...

J. Marston

Penn wrote: »

From what I understand, everything for all the starting heroes is free and included. For each new hero released, the hero will be free, but to unlock any items for them you have to buy their challenge card for €10 (1000 credits, I don't know if those credits are earnable in the game through gameplay). Then if you complete their challenge card and unlock everything for them, you get your 1000 credits back as a reward, which you can then use to buy the card for another hero. Or pay another tenner because the cards are likely to be a serious grind.

So even though all heroes are free (which Square Enix were very proud to state), you have to pay for the privilege of unlocking stuff for them.

Oh, and from datamining, people have found there's likely to be about 17 DLC characters

Hawkeye
Spider-Man (PS4/PS5 only)
Ant-Man
Black Panther
Captain Marvel
Dr Strange
Falcon
Kate Bishop
Mar'Vell
Mockingbird
Quake
Scarlet Witch
She-Hulk
Vision
War Machine
Wasp
Winter Soldier

So like I said, I imagine within the next few months, they'll change the system in some way due to backlash or lack of uptake. Especially given the more-than-tepid response to the beta and likely upcoming reviews.

I bet they're salivating at the thought of Black Panther DLC now.

Parsnips

Temptamperu wrote: »

All games are better with friends. Digging a hole is better with friends. Having played this alone I can tell you its dogshít.

Ive had some amazing long sessions with complete strangers on Destiny.
Im sorry to hear this is going to be Shiiiite
was looking forward to it.
as someone said before. It may be a game that will eventually be great after a year of improvements

SMC92Ian

People comparing this to Fortnight saying it's okay for them... Fortnight isn't costing me €60! It's a free game.

gizmo

Penn wrote: »

To be honest, it's a piece of string type of question. How many emotes, outfits etc are there per character? How many ways are there to earn more XP/credits quickly (eg. harder difficulty missions, specific requirements etc)?

Oh I wasn't asking about cumulatively, I meant individually. It's really the skins I'm interested in as the image of the Marketplace gives us an idea of how much they'll cost via the in-game currently - 900C which equates to $9.

It's hard to tell how many of each item the Heroes have though, all we have is a screenshot of the first page of the Iron Man card from the website which displays a fifth of the content. That shows one skin and what appears to be one takedown amongst the other bits and bobs but it's impossible to tell if a distribution of that kind is consistent amongst the other tiers, nevermind the other heroes, both base and post-release.

Penn wrote: »

But I would say if everything is unlockable with the same currency (by that I mean don't have multiple types of currency used for different things), you wouldn't have to unlock everything. You could pick and choose the things you wish to unlock for each character without having to grind through unlocking emotes you don't want to get the chance to unlock an outfit you want.

They could still also give bonus credits for unlocking everything for a character which could give you a headstart with the next character you move on to, to keep people playing (eg. a player knows Dr.Strange releasing in two weeks, starts playing Black Widow to do her challenge card and get bonus credits/XP to unlock stuff for Dr.Strange when he's released).

Given the number of characters as per the datamined list, you're talking 20+ characters by the end. I'd have thought 8-10 hours standard play to unlock everything for one character would be fairly reasonable, as most people aren't going to play all characters anyway, especially since so many seem to have likely similar movesets to others (Iron Man/War Machine, Hawkeye/Kate Bishop, Dr.Strange/Scarlet Witch etc).

Not that I really disagree with the above but the numbers are interesting in the context of this interview with the Brand Director at Crystal Dynamics. According to them, the game clocks in at between 10 and 30hrs depending on how much you rinse it so, with those numbers, you could be looking at unlocking nearly two Heroes full of content from a single playthrough. Factor in the ability to pick and chose what you actually want to unlock rather than progressing through a series of unlocks linearly and I'd be sceptical that any kind of significant number of people would want to shell out for additional content.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

If I'm reading the Fortnite culture correct, the intention is to manipulate younger demographics and their natural susceptibility towards peer pressure and shiny trinkets to use Mum/Dad's credit-card & purchase these cosmetics. AFAIK kids have been bullied for playing with "default" skins (cos as cute as kids can be, they're also horribly tribal too). And I guess some of the grown-up players buy up these worthless gewgaws too.

Really can't wait for EU legislation to eventually hit this. It seems like companies are getting away with as much as they can before legislation.

SMC92Ian

Deleted User wrote: »

Really can't wait for EU legislation to eventually hit this. It seems like companies are getting away with as much as they can before legislation.

I've tried this Fortnight the last 2 days as it added X-Men but you actually can't unlock anything unless you pay them €20, you get free bits but the characters are money and they hours and hours of grinding to unlock them after giving them €20!

Temptamperu

Seeing people on twitter talk about how good the game is now is really making me laugh.

Zero-Cool

Temptamperu wrote: »

Seeing people on twitter talk about how good the game is now is really making me laugh.

The 'influencers' and people who paid more to pay early are praising it? Seems legit.

SMC92Ian

Zero-Cool wrote: »

The 'influencers' and people who paid more to pay early are praising it? Seems legit.

I'm sure deep deep down there is a decent game, but I won't be paying more than 20 quid for it.

Temptamperu

SMC92Ian wrote: »

I'm sure deep deep down there is a decent game, but I won't be paying more than 20 quid for it.

do you like mashing square? you better :pac:

SMC92Ian

Temptamperu wrote: »

do you like mashing square? you better :pac:

I do in the Lego games haha but at least I don't have to pay €10 to unlock a character in that.