Pro14 Season 2019-2020

Squidgy Black

razorblunt wrote: »

It's going to be soooo much better when the English teams open the door and let them play in their league. The Welsh fans are just waiting to get thumped by the English teams at home then they'll come back to watch.
So Wales Online tells us.

But but but.... Don't you know an Anglo-Welsh league will solve ALL their problems?

Podge_irl

salmocab wrote: »

I like the idea of the baa baa’s but honestly almost never watch them and I’m very much over the lions, used to love it but now it’s too polished and too long.

It’s been getting progressively shorter and shorter! 8 games on the next tour is a farce and a dangerous encroachment of the club game into the international one.

Also the Lions are pretty important sources of cold, hard cash to the SH unions who would be far from happy to see it go - and financially struggling SH unions helps no one.

salmocab

Podge_irl wrote: »

It’s been getting progressively shorter and shorter! 8 games on the next tour is a farce and a dangerous encroachment of the club game into the international one.

Also the Lions are pretty important sources of cold, hard cash to the SH unions who would be far from happy to see it go - and financially struggling SH unions helps no one.

Ah I get that alright I’ve just lost interest over the last few tours, still watch the tests and maybe a couple of other games if it suits but I’m not really engaged with it anymore and can’t muster much enthusiasm. It’s possibly down to having so much more rugby available these days to watch.

Digifriendly

I've lost a lot of interest in Baa Baas also as they used to be the climax of international tours to these islands. Now in the present era where there are other competitive fixtures being played at the same time they hold little attraction for the armchair rugby fan.
Also Welsh regions must be cross they're losing players to Baa Baas match this weekend while other countries in Pro 14 can field full strength teams.

El_Duderino 09

leakyboots wrote: »

I think it'd be a shame if we lost The Lions or The Baa-Baas personally

I like the lions and the standard on tests is great. Barbarians is pointless and boring imo. There's nothing at stake in the games except a few quid for everyone involved. It's like journalists making a big fuss writing about the journalists Christmas party. Great for the journalists involved but I couldn't give a nugget of goat sh1t about it.

awec

The Barbarians as a concept just shouldn't exist any more, it's just a piss up for the players.

thomond2006

The Barbarians don't really fit in the current calendar where you cannot gather a proper all star side. Their annual game against the England seconds the day after the Premiership final is a joke fixture.

Granny15

Anyone heard anything on what the IRFU are going to do with the EUR 40M they are getting from the Pro14 deal.

It is all very hush hush and noone has heard anything on how they are going to invest it.

A bit of accountability wouldn't go astray.

Squidgy Black

Granny15 wrote: »

Anyone heard anything on what the IRFU are going to do with the EUR 40M they are getting from the Pro14 deal.

It is all very hush hush and noone has heard anything on how they are going to invest it.

A bit of accountability wouldn't go astray.

The deal hasn't even been finalised yet, just made in principle. They're hardly going to make promises and announce plans for investment before they actually get the money.

Cookiemunster

Granny15 wrote: »

Anyone heard anything on what the IRFU are going to do with the EUR 40M they are getting from the Pro14 deal.

It is all very hush hush and noone has heard anything on how they are going to invest it.

A bit of accountability wouldn't go astray.

They're not the FAI. Their accounts are made public every year. Those accounts show that they're a very rich sporting organisation who are millions of Euro in the black.

seiphil

Pro14 have a new fantasy game here https://fantasy.pro14rugby.org/pro14/en/4/selectteams.do

Clegg

Bit of a shambles at the Ospreys

https://twitter.com/simonrug/status/1200416277778567168?s=19

Evil_g

seiphil wrote: »

Pro14 have a new fantasy game here https://fantasy.pro14rugby.org/pro14/en/4/selectteams.do

What a mess. What was wrong with last year's format?

AdamD

Crazy to see the Welsh union utterly sabotage their sides this weekend. Their own biggest enemy.

Digifriendly

AdamD wrote: »

Crazy to see the Welsh union utterly sabotage their sides this weekend. Their own biggest enemy.

Scarlets were poor last night and Kingspan crowd deprived of seeing a fully competitive game due to this non capped match at Millenium stadium.

sydthebeat

Treviso imploded

Leading by 11 with 13 minutes left. Beaten by 3 by cardiff

Homesick Alien

sydthebeat wrote: »

Treviso imploded

Leading by 11 with 13 minutes left. Beaten by 3 by cardiff

Last year Benetton were on the winning side of a lot of these tight matches. This year they are constantly slipping up. They've lost a load of matches by less than a score.

thomond2006

There's a clear top 4 emerging in each conference.

MarinersBlues

thomond2006 wrote: »

There's a clear top 4 emerging in each conference.

There was a clear top 4 in Conference A when the conferences were announced.

Should be an interesting run in in both conferences though, it is a good structure and the 7 teams without Leinster are all fairly competitive with each other.

awec

Interesting comments from Darren Cave in the off the ball podcast this week. He feels the gap between the Pro14 and the Premiership has essentially doubled in recent years, and highlights the fact that Ulster for example had essentially a runaround last weekend against a team that didn't play their best players, while Harlequins had to go full throttle to try and qualify again for the tournament next year.

Feels that the best teams in the Premiership are not any better than the best teams in the Pro14, but the rest of the teams are chalk and cheese. Says Pro14 teams have too many easy weeks in the league.

And this, he feels, is one reason why the English teams might take an interest in league reform, to try and level the playing field in european competition a bit.

171170

Watched the Pro 14 highlights last night and am beginning to ask myself what's the point of it all from an Irish perspective!

Already it's pretty clear that three of the four Irish provinces will finish first and second in their respective conferences and that the fourth (Connacht) have a decent chance of making it too! Realistically, after a third of the matches, the only uncertainty is as to which teams will finish second and third in Conference B and whether Glasgow can overtake the Cheetahs to finish third in Conference A.

Joke of a competition, IMHO.

awec

I ask myself what is the point as well, because it's plainly obvious Leinster will win it again, and it's plainly obvious the Irish teams will qualify for Europe. So really, it's just a procession. I honestly have found my interest in league rugby waning in recent years.

Next year will be exactly the same.

c.p.w.g.w

171170 wrote: »

Watched the Pro 14 highlights last night and am beginning to ask myself what's the point of it all from an Irish perspective!

Already it's pretty clear that three of the four Irish provinces will finish first and second in their respective conferences and that the fourth (Connacht) have a decent chance of making it too! Realistically, after a third of the matches, the only uncertainty is as to which teams will finish second and third in Conference B and whether Glasgow can overtake the Cheetahs to finish third in Conference A.

Joke of a competition, IMHO.

Its unfortunately going to continue, if the international & club calendar intersect as much as they do.

During the 6 nations most sides will be without a large chuck of their first team, there was also the RWC. It just makes a mockery of the club game outside of the European Cup

Dubinusa

So what's the answer? It's not the provinces fault that they are better. The pro14 doesn't have the cash flow that the other league's have.
For the pro14 to improve, the Italian sides need to drastically improve.
A couple of super rugby S.A franchises need to be involved. The Lions are gash.
The Welch regions also must drastically improve, I can't see that happening. They are struggling to stay solvent.
The Scottish sides have improved imo.
The money is not there amongst the unions.
I also think the quality of some of the premiership teams is poor and they would struggle in the pro14 too.
Leicester are awful. Wasps too. They would be mid table at best in the pro14. Gloucester and Sale would also struggle. The premiership is 2 tiered also.

Tigerandahalf

A British/Irish union led league may be the answer. So many of the clubs in England are reliant on sugar daddies and it isn't a sustainable model. Bristol are the latest club to be spending big, driving up wages and yet tv deals are not growing by any huge amount. So much live sport on tv that you are fighting for people's attention.

The worry for a union led league is that it could become very stagnant with possibly no relegation and lack vision going forward.

The French club game is ruined with too many over the hill average players in the system while young French players are left out. The clubs there are similarly reliant on big private investors.

A 2 division British/Irish league could be an option with relegation and promotion. Dividing up the tv money would be an issue though. You would probably need to have playoffs involving the first 2 from the second division as well.

Until the Welsh sort themselves out nothing will probably work.

aloooof

Dubinusa wrote: »

I also think the quality of some of the premiership teams is poor and they would struggle in the pro14 too.
Leicester are awful. Wasps too. They would be mid table at best in the pro14. Gloucester and Sale would also struggle. The premiership is 2 tiered also.

They may not be near the top but I definitely think they'd fare a lot better than the likes of Southern Kings, Dragons, Zebre and Ospreys currently.

sydthebeat

i suppose the question has to be asked "who owns the problem" ?

do irish clubs need a radical overhaul?
they seem to be doing alright financially with expansion plans either already done (kingspan, thomond pk) or in the pipeline (sportsground, RDS)

arguably they are doing ok at european level usually at least 1 in the semis, with 2 in a lot of years (could have had 3 last year only for ulster meeting leinster)

arguably ireland are doing ok at international level over the last 10 years too.

so are irish clubs progressing against their opponents?? well yes would be the answer.

The welsh are in complete disarray. Their international performances is the only thing keeping the house of cards from falling. They are a non entity in europe, their attendances are generally abysmal ... apart from judgement day. Their club structures seem to be in just as much of a shambles judging by the clarke ospreys episode.

The scottish clubs have a much better chance of progressing. Two teams in their major cities, most of their internationals come from these teams (as opposed to the irish 4) so youd expect better results at club level.... but the flip side of this is their international side on a serious downslide. They have only 136 professional male players registered. Im not sure about ireland but id imagine its close to 200.
There is facility in scotland to improve, but to my eyes its down to the standard of player and thus the standard of coaching available to them

The italians are definitely progressing, with benetton having a great season last year, and should have been finalists. The work that crowley is doing there is excellent, with aboud with the Italian RU. Zebre are still behind, but seem to suffer from being the little brother feeder club.

as long as wales continues to be a basket case, the longer the pro14 will be a secondary completion for the irish provinces.

171170

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

It's unfortunately going to continue, if the international & club calendar intersect as much as they do.

During the 6 nations most sides will be without a large chuck of their first team, there was also the RWC. It just makes a mockery of the club game outside of the European Cup

Yep. Other than the Irish Interpros, there's not really all that much to enjoy about the Pro 14 these days. Glasgow, Scarlets and Treviso showed a bit of promise in recent years. as did the O's when they were bankrolled by (the now bankrupt) Mike Cuddy, but they've all gone backwards, unfortunately.

Tigerandahalf

The Welsh really undermined the competition with their game against the Barbarians. That scenario shouldn't be allowed by the unions but I guess they are stuck for cash. If the club game collapses in Wales perhaps their union would be happy for the English clubs to pick up their players.

It would leave the Scots and Irish in a right pickle then. It wouldn't be a good position to be in going into discussions for a new league.

Cookiemunster

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

The Welsh really undermined the competition with their game against the Barbarians. That scenario shouldn't be allowed by the unions but I guess they are stuck for cash. If the club game collapses in Wales perhaps their union would be happy for the English clubs to pick up their players.

It would leave the Scots and Irish in a right pickle then. It wouldn't be a good position to be in going into discussions for a new league.

They way the WRU run the pro game is a farce, but there's no way they'd allow all the regions to fail. They want control of the internationals just as much as the IRFU does and they'd have zero control of they all played in England.

171170

Cookiemunster wrote: »

They way the WRU run the pro game is a farce, but there's no way they'd allow all the regions to fail. They want control of the internationals just as much as the IRFU does and they'd have zero control of they all played in England.

They've lost Liam Williams, Dan Biggar and that scrum half in Toulon in the past couple of years (others too, but I can't think of any names), so it ain't working too well for them!

Cookiemunster

171170 wrote: »

They've lost Liam Williams, Dan Biggar and that scrum half in Toulon in the past couple of years (others too, but I can't think of any names), so it ain't working too well for them!

Yes, they've lost players. So has Ireland. The vast majority of Welsh internationals still play in Wales however.

171170

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Yes, they've lost players. So has Ireland. The vast majority of Welsh internationals still play in Wales however.

Yep I miss Paddy Jackson too!

Tigerandahalf

171170 wrote: »

Yep I miss Paddy Jackson too!

Speaking of Paddy, he is lining out at full back for LI. Stephen Meyler, ex Northampton is at 10.

declanflynn

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

The Welsh really undermined the competition with their game against the Barbarians. That scenario shouldn't be allowed by the unions but I guess they are stuck for cash. If the club game collapses in Wales perhaps their union would be happy for the English clubs to pick up their players.

It would leave the Scots and Irish in a right pickle then. It wouldn't be a good position to be in going into discussions for a new league.

can we not drop the Welsh teams from the league, the add nothing to it, have a 10 team league, I doubt the English want them either

Tigerandahalf

Liam Williams is on his way back to the Scarlets when his contract with Saracens ends at the end of the season. He is still only 28.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50869036

KevinK

declanflynn wrote: »

can we not drop the Welsh teams from the league, the add nothing to it, have a 10 team league, I doubt the English want them either

I feel like this wouldn’t make much sense... I presume thebWelsh are stakeholders in the pro 14 and as such a whole new competition would need to be set up to exclude them....

Seems like a lot of bother with minimal benefit

The Lost Sheep

declanflynn wrote: »

can we not drop the Welsh teams from the league, the add nothing to it, have a 10 team league, I doubt the English want them either

and replace income with what? It wouldnt be good for us to lose out on them in the league.

Exclamation Marc

declanflynn wrote: »

can we not drop the Welsh teams from the league, the add nothing to it, have a 10 team league, I doubt the English want them either

You mean the union that have provided the league champions six times since 2002, the most recent being two years ago?

Yeah, they add nothing.

The Rape of Lucretia

For the three seasonal 'interpros' games, is the arrangment that the four provinces show agree in advance what strength teams they will play with the expectation being that each province win one, lose one, and contend one ?

declanflynn

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

You mean the union that have provided the league champions six times since 2002, the most recent being two years ago?

Yeah, they add nothing.

Welsh rugby is a mess financially, the regions should be cut loose before they go broke or go to the premiership

The Lost Sheep

declanflynn wrote: »

Welsh rugby is a mess financially, the regions should be cut loose before they go broke or go to the premiership

we cant afford to lose them and they are not going to join the premiership. Removing them will not help us.

CatFromHue

I would hope that once the Millennium Stadium is finally paid for that the Welsh regions will get more money from the WRU and so be more competitive.

I don't know if this is just a pipe dream though.

Squidgy Black

CatFromHue wrote: »

I would hope that once the Millennium Stadium is finally paid for that the Welsh regions will get more money from the WRU and so be more competitive.

I don't know if this is just a pipe dream though.

They'll be getting a pay off from the CVC deal, but money isn't the issue with the Welsh regions. They've got central contracts and funding from the WRU as it is, the main issue is the lack of support and lack of depth in squads.

Exclamation Marc

Scarlets 44 - 0 Ospreys

Ospreys are just poisonous these days. Hard to see them ever get back to their heights the way they're playing.

CatFromHue

20-0 at halftime too so it's not like Scarlets ran away with it at the end, it looks like it was a fairly comprehensive beat down.

Only the Kings are lower than them in the overall table but the Kings have played 2 less games.

OldRio

Ben v Zeb on FreeSports at the moment. Good game.

Bridge93

Zebre are embarrassing. Getting bullied by a team who had a man sent off after 15 minutes. People can bad mouth the premiership all they want. There are more teams in the Pro14 who are dross than in England.

Zebre, Kings, Dragons and Ospreys are useless

OldRio

Well it was a good game. Benetton pulling away.

Bridge93

That is shocking refereeing in the Scottish derby