Pro14 Season 2019-2020

Squidgy Black

thomond2006 wrote: »

Kings win. That's pretty grim for Ospreys.

Hook missed two penalties in the dying minutes when they were two points behind too.

Dog Botherer

is that the Kings’ first away win? appalling result for Ospreys.

ScrubsfanChris

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Hook missed two penalties in the dying minutes when they were two points behind too.

The 2nd one was a bit of a hit-and-hope from the half way line, but that 1st one was a very bad miss.

sydthebeat

Cheetahs had a man sent off after 14 mins.... Went 11 - 0 down... And after now leading 11 - 14 on 33 mins after two quick tries

Eod100

thomond2006 wrote: »

Kings win. That's pretty grim for Ospreys.

So currently Munster's Champions Cup opponents are second last in their leagues (Ospreys and Racing) and last (Saracens after points deduction). Don't think that would have been predicted when pool draw made

thomond2006

https://twitter.com/andymcgeady/status/1193229060215848962?s=19

That's scumbaggery. Lined the defenceless player up and drove his shoulder into him.

Burkie1203

Bizarre from Benetton

ScrubsfanChris

Re: Post Cheetahs v Munster

leakyboots wrote: »

That's a paddlin'.

And their coach is finishing up, wonder will they kick on or regress

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Away to Connacht, Scarlets and Cardiff. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they lose all 3 of those

Well that was predictable :pac:

thomond2006

Scarlets 20-17 Benetton FT, Dan Jones with a 40m penalty kick at the end to win it.

thomond2006

Conference A:

Leinster 29
Ulster 20
Cheetahs 17
Glasgow 15
Dragons 9
Ospreys 6
Zebre 2

Leinster are cruising, they will wrap up top spot with a few games remaining barring a collapse. The Cheetahs lost their three away games after their good start at home. They will need to maintain their fortress at home to contend for the top three. Glasgow had some terrible results during the RWC but you'd expect them to bounce back.
Ospreys have been the big disappointment but their schedule to date has included trips to Ulster, Munster and Leinster.

thomond2006

Conference B:

Munster 24
Scarlets 21
Edinburgh 19
Connacht 19
Benetton 12
Cardiff 10
Kings 6

A much closer conference. Munster will be very pleased with their season to date, their only loss coming away to Cheetahs. The Christmas period will be tough for them as they visit Galway and Ulster with Leinster coming to Thomond Park in between.
Benetton probably suffered from losing their internationals more than anyone so it's not a surprise to see them seven points from the top 3.

MarinersBlues

There will be a good battle for top 3 in pool B.

Cookiemunster

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ospreys have been the big disappointment but their schedule to date has included trips to Ulster, Munster and Leinster.

They just lost at home to the Kings. It doesn't matter what their schedule was, they're awful this season.

thomond2006

Cookiemunster wrote: »

They just lost at home to the Kings. It doesn't matter what their schedule was, they're awful this season.

True!

guapos

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/steyn-to-return-to-bloemfontein/

Hopefully he signs for the Cheetahs

MarinersBlues

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/50453217
Pro14: League agrees £120m CVC investment deal in principle

Erm, what's all this about.
What will CVC bring to the table apart from "knocking heads together"

Dave_The_Sheep

MarinersBlues wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/50453217
Pro14: League agrees £120m CVC investment deal in principle

Erm, what's all this about.
What will CVC bring to the table apart from "knocking heads together"

£120m and some dubious motives.

molloyjh

Possibly the ability to package all games involving English and P14 sides into a single tv rights package, maximising the revenue from the rights and ensuring just 1 single broadcaster?

irishbucsfan

First time it’s been likely that we can see all European club and international rugby in the one rights package alright

thomond2006

I think an external partner taking over the marketing is a good opportunity.

awec

The league could do with bring given a good shake anyway, and this CVC lot surely can’t do any worse than the unions at making the competition something worth taking seriously.

But they can feck off with this North America crap, the league is already overflowing with dross. No more tin pot clubs please.

Neil3030

In before the inevitable announcement of a mid season, multigame supercup tournament to be held in Qatar or Saudi Arabia.

Growth. Or something.

jacothelad

I wonder are they looking to the medium term with the WRC being possibly held in the USA in 2027 /31

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

The league could do with bring given a good shake anyway, and this CVC lot surely can’t do any worse than the unions at making the competition something worth taking seriously.

But they can feck off with this North America crap, the league is already overflowing with dross. No more tin pot clubs please.

They could merge Connacht/Ulster and then add a yank team, that way there'd be the same number of minnows

Burkie1203

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They could merge Connacht/Ulster and then add a yank team, that way there'd be the same number of minnows

Remove the Kings and replace them with Munster as the SA entrant

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They could merge Connacht/Ulster and then add a yank team, that way there'd be the same number of minnows

Feisty

Former Former

Pro14 in its current guise is not a sustainable competition.

These dudes will make a better go of making it attractive and if they don't, at least they've paid the cash up front.

From that perspective, it's a good deal. The devil is in the detail though, what the actual arrangement is, who knows?

MarinersBlues

The fact the pro14 has 60% of the valuation of the Aviva Premiership is interesting.

From listening to people on here I would have thought we weren't any where near half the value.

awec

Former Former wrote: »

Pro14 in its current guise is not a sustainable competition.

These dudes will make a better go of making it attractive and if they don't, at least they've paid the cash up front.

From that perspective, it's a good deal. The devil is in the detail though, what the actual arrangement is, who knows?

The statement says the unions will still make rugby decisions, but given these lads have been happy to buy 30% of the league you would hope they have been given some sort of assurance that changes will be made.

They'll want to make a profit, and it's hard to see how that will be possible if the unions keep going the way they're going.

thomond2006

This money is something Welsh rugby desperately needs. Whether it's used correctly / responsibility is another question.

The Welsh are the big drain on the competition. If 2-3 regions could become playoff contenders it would make a big difference.

PMC83

thomond2006 wrote: »

This money is something Welsh rugby desperately needs. Whether it's used correctly / responsibility is another question.

The Welsh are the big drain on the competition. If 2-3 regions could become playoff contenders it would make a big difference.

Unfortunately Welsh fans are just more interested in the club scene then the regions.Ospreys had what looked like dismal turn out this weekend.

Maybe a bit of success will help fix that but who knows. From talking a a lot of them, they follow their local club and wales, and pretty much skip by whatever region.

awec

PMC83 wrote: »

Unfortunately Welsh fans are just more interested in the club scene then the regions.Ospreys had what looked like dismal turn out this weekend.

Maybe a bit of success will help fix that but who knows. From talking a a lot of them, they follow their local club and wales, and pretty much skip by whatever region.

The Pro14 is a poor, convoluted mess that people in Wales just don't care about. And Ospreys just played a european game with no internationals.

Not hard to see why interest is low.

Squidgy Black

With a windfall sum to each club and the possibility of increased TV revenue if there is say a joint league TV deal etc, does the league need to start looking at a salary cap?

awec

Squidgy Black wrote: »

With a windfall sum to each club and the possibility of increased TV revenue if there is say a joint league TV deal etc, does the league need to start looking at a salary cap?

There is no way the unions would ever agree to a salary cap. It would make things very awkward for them, especially the IRFU.

PMC83

awec wrote: »

The Pro14 is a poor, convoluted mess that people in Wales just don't care about. And Ospreys just played a european game with no internationals.

Not hard to see why interest is low.

Connacht fielded pretty much a second team (Bundee aside) and it was a sell out. I never really bought this business of 'no internationals, no interest'. Follow the team, not the individuals.

Theres no internationals playing for Neath or Ponty Bridge or these clubs, yet a good derby still gets a massive crowd, which is part of the issue I guess.

As you say, the PRO14 is a bit of a mess, and it seems that average welsh rugby fan would rather attend a domestic league game rather then a Pro14 one. Maybe an injection of cash will help this, but I doubt it.

salmocab

Squidgy Black wrote: »

With a windfall sum to each club and the possibility of increased TV revenue if there is say a joint league TV deal etc, does the league need to start looking at a salary cap?

Be a very difficult thing to implement across 5 countries 2 continents and 3 currencies along with at least 2 countries having national deals for players.

thomond2006

Squidgy Black wrote: »

With a windfall sum to each club and the possibility of increased TV revenue if there is say a joint league TV deal etc, does the league need to start looking at a salary cap?

A salary cap would be difficult to create and enforce with central contracts.

OldRio

PMC83 wrote: »

Connacht fielded pretty much a second team (Bundee aside) and it was a sell out. I never really bought this business of 'no internationals, no interest'. Follow the team, not the individuals.

Theres no internationals playing for Neath or Ponty Bridge or these clubs, yet a good derby still gets a massive crowd, which is part of the issue I guess.

As you say, the PRO14 is a bit of a mess, and it seems that average welsh rugby fan would rather attend a domestic league game rather then a Pro14 one. Maybe an injection of cash will help this, but I doubt it.

IMHO. This idea that club rugby gets massive crowds in Wales is a myth. Have a look on S4C or BBC Wales at some of the club games. 10 men and a dog would sum the crowd up.

PMC83

OldRio wrote: »

IMHO. This idea that club rugby gets massive crowds in Wales is a myth. Have a look on S4C or BBC Wales at some of the club games. 10 men and a dog would sum the crowd up.

Ok -probably not 'massive crowds' on every occasion, but from talking to welsh fans they seem to have a better following and are would almost certainly effect crowd sizes at regional games. Seems like the fanbase is some what split

OldRio

PMC83 wrote: »

Don't know about massive crowds, but from talking to welsh fans they seem to have a better following and are would almost certainly effect crowd sizes at regional games.

I think it's just an excuse to be honest. Have a watch on TV.

PMC83

OldRio wrote: »

I think it's just an excuse to be honest. Have a watch on TV.

So you reckon in general the crowds just don't want to go?

errlloyd

The Welsh thing comes up fairly often and I used to also think their union didn't have it's heart in the Pro14, but in reality they have some challenges. Their population is less than half the whole Island of Ireland. Their teams are clustered in one place. They've had little success at club level and they have competition from soccer in Swansea and Cardiff.

Imagine if the Irish provincial teams were Dublin, Dundalk, Waterford and Cork and Dublin and Cork also had premier league/championship soccer happening. Then imagine we were hardly ever competitive in it.

The IRFU have done a pretty good job with the Pro14, but the Scots, Welsh and Italians are ALL lagging behind. And our fans are failry fickle, if our fortunes change in the future I wouldn't bet on sustainability.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

The Pro14 is a poor, convoluted mess that people in Wales just don't care about. And Ospreys just played a european game with no internationals.

Not hard to see why interest is low.

The league is the way that it is in no small part because of the state of Welsh regional rugby. Imagine having 2 regions regularly challenging for silverware. Throw in a Scottish team and 2 or 3 Irish teams and the league could be fantastic. 5 or 6 contenders on a regular basis would change everything. Instead the Welsh have had 1 contender a season at best. Sometimes none. So the league has had to adapt as a result.

If Wales wasnt such a basket case the product would be better so theres a real element of chicken and egg there.

OldRio

PMC83 wrote: »

So you reckon in general the crowds just don't want to go?

If honestly don't know but more importantly the WRU don't know.
Soccer is a large draw for some of the population. Too many clubs in the Pro14. Maybe changes in people's priorities.

awec

errlloyd wrote: »

The Welsh thing comes up fairly often and I used to also think their union didn't have it's heart in the Pro14, but in reality they have some challenges. Their population is less than half the whole Island of Ireland. Their teams are clustered in one place. They've had little success at club level and they have competition from soccer in Swansea and Cardiff.

Imagine if the Irish provincial teams were Dublin, Dundalk, Waterford and Cork and Dublin and Cork also had premier league/championship soccer happening. Then imagine we were hardly ever competitive in it.

The IRFU have done a pretty good job with the Pro14, but the Scots, Welsh and Italians are ALL lagging behind. And our fans are failry fickle, if our fortunes change in the future I wouldn't bet on sustainability.

The IRFU have done a pretty good job in parts, but a lot of the successes are down to sheer dumb luck.

Having 4 teams ready to go that fans could already identify with is a huge slice of that. Didn't the WRU originally try to turn their clubs professional back at the start of pro rugby? I know we Irish like to pontificate about our setup but a lot of it is down purely to good fortune and other unions weren't so lucky.

I don't think the WRU really has it's heart in the Pro14. It's there because it has no other option, rather than through choice.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

The IRFU have done a pretty good job in parts, but a lot of the successes are down to sheer dumb luck.

Having 4 teams ready to go that fans could already identify with is a huge slice of that. Didn't the WRU originally try to turn their clubs professional back at the start of pro rugby? I know we Irish like to pontificate about our setup but a lot of it is down purely to good fortune and other unions weren't so lucky.

I don't think the WRU really has it's heart in the Pro14. It's there because it has no other option, rather than through choice.

Fully agree on the luck thing. That wasn't some masterstroke by the IRFU. They just fell into it. That said, Wales have had over 20 years now to figure out how they want to manage their pro game and they've made a complete mess of it. Ownership of the clubs, managing player contracts, the Millenium Stadium etc etc. Theyve a list of complete balls ups that have hampered their ability to adapt.

If they dont have their heart in the league then they're idiots. Plain and simple. They have less than half the population of Ireland, but they only have about 20% less registered players. That isnt bad going and they need to be looking to invest in their development pathways. The league should play a big part in that for them as it does for us. Guys like Porter, Toner, VDF, Ringrose etc all cut their teeth in P14 rugby. Having their bigger stars leave the country doubly hurts the pro game there by not giving young kids a chance to see these players more often and also not giving them much of a look at success.

Rigor Mortis

The big crowds at club games is a convenient trope that allows those who didnt like regionalisation to claim it has failed. It's B.S. Principality Games get poor attendances most weeks.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-added-fake-crowd-noise-to-principality-premiership-rugby-highlights-vjbdrqv3n

razorblunt

The Welsh journos constantly talking the league down and overhyping anything, anything at all in the Gallagher Premiership doesn't help. Looking at you, Simon Thomas.

awec

awec wrote: »

The IRFU have done a pretty good job in parts, but a lot of the successes are down to sheer dumb luck.

Having 4 teams ready to go that fans could already identify with is a huge slice of that. Didn't the WRU originally try to turn their clubs professional back at the start of pro rugby? I know we Irish like to pontificate about our setup but a lot of it is down purely to good fortune and other unions weren't so lucky.

I don't think the WRU really has it's heart in the Pro14. It's there because it has no other option, rather than through choice.

I would need to find the source for this again but I can recall reading it somewhere, that back around dawn of professionalism I don't think it was given that the provinces would be the professional teams in Ireland, with some backing for AIL clubs to be the pro teams. Similar reasons to the disconnect in Wales, people identified more with their club etc etc.

The whole thing was like the wild west back in the 90s anyway, nobody really knew what way things would go. I think the IRFU have done a very good job at managing the pro game in Ireland, think you're doing them a bit of a disservice there. The provinces just existing was definitely not enough to make the whole thing into the success it has become now.

Zzippy

PMC83 wrote: »

Connacht fielded pretty much a second team (Bundee aside) and it was a sell out. I never really bought this business of 'no internationals, no interest'. Follow the team, not the individuals.

Theres no internationals playing for Neath or Ponty Bridge or these clubs, yet a good derby still gets a massive crowd, which is part of the issue I guess.

As you say, the PRO14 is a bit of a mess, and it seems that average welsh rugby fan would rather attend a domestic league game rather then a Pro14 one. Maybe an injection of cash will help this, but I doubt it.

Well, apart from Bundee plus at least 5 more being first choice, and the fact it wasn't sold out, and Welsh club attendances would bely your last point, yep, pretty much spot on.