Clare GAA Discussion - 2024 All Ireland Hurling Champions

supernova5

jes*s Chr**t, what a cluster*u*k this is,
the unaccountability is staggering, we've become a nation of cheats, liars and low life's

the kelt

letowski wrote: »

In what will surprise absolutely nobody, the HSE has told Clare FM that no video footage was viewed by the HSE of the match.

https://twitter.com/ClareFM/status/1397524179906273282

I think Wexford need to clarify who supplied the names (or in one case the helmet colour) to the HSE, because its simply clear that the HSE did not designate those 2 players as close contacts by themselves.

But is it not obvious that the Wexford lads would name ALL their contacts, family, friends, team mates, shopkeeper, fell marking them etc etc as is the correct thing to do???

It actually seems in this case the wexford lads tried to not name them "ehh i think it was fella with a red helmet"

Its simply then the HSE who determine who is and isnt a close contact as confirmed by Fergal Mc Gill

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/0524/1223694-mcgill-close-contacts-call-came-from-hse/

This idea of their being some conspiracy to deny Clare 2 players etc is a bit out there, no?

lastly does it not seem to be a bit odd a manager of an amateur sporting team can be given so much information by the HSE simply by making a phone call in the midst of a pandemic and slap bang in the middle of the worst ever "data breach" cyber attack??

GDPR and all that!!

formerlyET

the kelt wrote: »

This idea of their being some conspiracy to deny Clare 2 players etc is a bit out there, no?

lastly does it not seem to be a bit odd a manager of an amateur sporting team can be given so much information by the HSE simply by making a phone call in the midst of a pandemic and slap bang in the middle of the worst ever "data breach" cyber attack??

GDPR and all that!!

Hackers rang Lohan with the info.

the kelt

formerlyET wrote: »

Hackers rang Lohan with the info.

Lohan is the Russian hacker "Bryana Lohanchenko"

letowski

the kelt wrote: »

But is it not obvious that the Wexford lads would name ALL their contacts, family, friends, team mates, shopkeeper, fell marking them etc etc as is the correct thing to do???

It actually seems in this case the wexford lads tried to not name them "ehh i think it was fella with a red helmet"

Its simply then the HSE who determine who is and isnt a close contact as confirmed by Fergal Mc Gill

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/0524/1223694-mcgill-close-contacts-call-came-from-hse/

This idea of their being some conspiracy to deny Clare 2 players etc is a bit out there, no?

lastly does it not seem to be a bit odd a manager of an amateur sporting team can be given so much information by the HSE simply by making a phone call in the midst of a pandemic and slap bang in the middle of the worst ever "data breach" cyber attack??

GDPR and all that!!

But they didn't name 'ALL' their contacts.. they named just the two Clare lads and the rest of the squad went off training last week. The match against Kilkenny was called off on Saturday remember, not Tuesday, after a third Wexford player tested positive later that week.

I agree that the HSE needs to clarify casual vs close contact, because the two Clare players did not meet the close contact criteria in an outdoor sports setting under HSE guidelines.

Billy Ocean

letowski wrote: »

But they didn't name 'ALL' their contacts.. they named just the two Clare lads and the rest of the squad went off training last week. The match against Kilkenny was called off on Saturday remember, not Tuesday, after a third Wexford player tested positive later that week.

I agree that the HSE needs to clarify casual vs close contact, because the two Clare players did not meet the close contact criteria in an outdoor sports setting under HSE guidelines.

The Wexford team haven't trained collectively sense they played Clare, they all returned negative tests Tuesday of last week following the 2 cases initially coming to light and when tested Friday 1 positive showed up which lead to the Kilkenny postponement, there all still isolating and getting tested today.

letowski

Billy Ocean wrote: »

The Wexford team haven't trained collectively sense they played Clare, they all returned negative tests Tuesday of last week following the 2 cases initially coming to light and when tested Friday 1 showed up which lead to the Kilkenny postponement, there all still isolating and getting tested today.

I didn't realise that, fair enough, but the chairman said after the 2 players tested positive that the game versus Kilkenny would go ahead last weekend, despite all the panel meeting close contact criteria, while the two Clare lads, who did not meet close contact criteria, were deemed out for the weekend. Makes no sense.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/0519/1222610-wexford-confirm-two-positive-covid-tests-among-panel/

It probably just the HSE didn't follow their own guidelines, but there still needs to be clarification on this.

formerlyET

Billy Ocean wrote: »

The Wexford team haven't trained collectively sense they played Clare, they all returned negative tests Tuesday of last week following the 2 cases initially coming to light and when tested Friday 1 positive showed up which lead to the Kilkenny postponement, there all still isolating and getting tested today.

Were Kilkenny kept in the loop? Why wasn't the league and Clare kept in the loop? It affects everyone involved.
The reason there is much distrust and rumours now is because there was no openness from the beginning and Clare players have suffered the most out of everyone despite following protocols and the promise of being casual contacts.

Billy Ocean

formerlyET wrote: »

Were Kilkenny kept in the loop? Why wasn't the league and Clare kept in the loop? It affects everyone involved.
The reason there is much distrust and rumours now is because there was no openness from the beginning and Clare players have suffered the most out of everyone despite following protocols and the promise of being casual contacts.

The whole thing is very odd, problem is HSE are not obliged in any way to provide details with GDPR etc.

Clareman

Billy Ocean wrote: »

The whole thing is very odd, problem is HSE are not obliged in any way to provide details with GDPR etc.

The whole thing is extremely odd and doesn't make sense to me. The Wexford part of the story is focused on the HSE in the South East, the Clare part of the story is focused on the HSE in the Mid-West, this all while most HSE systems were down. This all while there's no comment about the individuals directly impacted but others apparently having full access to sensitive medical information.

Figerty

Clareman wrote: »

The whole thing is extremely odd and doesn't make sense to me. The Wexford part of the story is focused on the HSE in the South East, the Clare part of the story is focused on the HSE in the Mid-West, this all while most HSE systems were down. This all while there's no comment about the individuals directly impacted but others apparently having full access to sensitive medical information.

I think we all have a fair guess at the source of this issue. A badly executed attempt at undermining the Clare Manager.
Wexford should be asking some serious question about the direction they are being taken and the potential cost.. and I don't mean the financial.

Clareman

Figerty wrote: »

I think we all have a fair guess at the source of this issue. A badly executed attempt at undermining the Clare Manager.
Wexford should be asking some serious question about the direction they are being taken and the potential cost.. and I don't mean the financial.

Taking off the saffron and blue glasses, this wasn't an issue until the Clare Manager brought it up in his interview, which was the first interview he took this year.

Billy Ocean

Figerty wrote: »

I think we all have a fair guess at the source of this issue. A badly executed attempt at undermining the Clare Manager.
Wexford should be asking some serious question about the direction they are being taken and the potential cost.. and I don't mean the financial.

so you think Wexford county board and HSE were in collusion in a conspiracy to disrupt Clare? You think Brian Lohan got confidental information on both Clare and Wexford players which completely goes against GDPR and patent privacy basic principles?

Look the whole thing is very odd and only sentiment that seems to be universally agreed is the 2 Clare lads been close contacts was a nonsense but thankfully and most importantly they never tested positive and weren't unwell by all accounts.

formerlyET

Clareman wrote: »

Taking off the saffron and blue glasses, this wasn't an issue until the Clare Manager brought it up in his interview, which was the first interview he took this year.

It was a big issue. Everybody was scratching their heads when the two Clare players were deemed close contacts. The third case made it an even bigger issue. The postponement of the game. Then when Lohan confirmed suspicions, it took off.

The only issue for me is how those two Clare players were nominated and why KK were left so long out of the loop.

That a manager was informed about positive cases and their circumstances, given he is managing a large group of players and two affected players (with jobs and lives) he is entitled to have the right information to inform that group to the best of his ability. It's not an ordinary situation involving an ordinary citizen. There a lot of people involved that need to be managed.

Billy Ocean

formerlyET wrote: »

It was a big issue. Everybody was scratching their heads when the two Clare players were deemed close contacts. The third case made it an even bigger issue. The postponement of the game. Then when Lohan confirmed suspicions, it took off.

The only issue for me is how those two Clare players nominated and why KK were left so long out of the loop.

That a manager was informed about positive cases and their circumstances, given he is managing a large group of players and two affected players (with jobs and lives) he is entitled to have the right information to inform that group to the best of his ability. It's not an ordinary situation involving an ordinary citizen. There a lot of people involved that need to be managed.

I suspect this could be an HSE error just as the Offaly situation was acknowledged as being last year when 27 of their panel were deemed close contacts, they weren't even using dressing rooms.

Clareman

formerlyET wrote: »

It was a big issue. Everybody was scratching their heads when the two Clare players were deemed close contacts. The third case made it an even bigger issue. The postponement of the game. Then when Lohan confirmed suspicions, it took off.

Absolutely, 1 of the big questions here is why 2 Clare players were deemed close contacts, the assumption being made is that the players were deemed close contacts to a positive COVID test because of a hurling match, Wexford are denying that's why they were deemed close contacts, the HSE say they don't say how people are deemed close contacts and the GAA are saying that it doesn't have anything to do with it.

formerlyET wrote: »

The only issue for me is how those two Clare players were nominated and why KK were left so long out of the loop.

The big assumption here is that the only reason the Clare players were deemed close contacts was because of the match, take that out of the equation everything adds up.

formerlyET wrote: »

That a manager was informed about positive cases and their circumstances, given he is managing a large group of players and two affected players (with jobs and lives) he is entitled to have the right information to inform that group to the best of his ability. It's not an ordinary situation involving an ordinary citizen. There a lot of people involved that need to be managed.

There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to start. My boss doesn't have the entitlement to know my medical details just because she is managing a large group of people let alone a manager of a non-elite sport team, I might choose to share information with her but she isn't entitled to it. This is an ordinary situation involving an ordinary citizens, there are schools with far more people involved.

BnB

Billy Ocean wrote: »

I suspect this could be an HSE error just as the Offaly situation was acknowledged as being last year when 27 of their panel were deemed close contacts, they weren't even using dressing rooms.

If it was just a HSE error, it is very very puzzling. It gets even more puzzling when you go into detail on the actual players involved on both sides. I obviously won't to go into it here for fear of giving any hint towards who the players are.

But I would say, if you do know who the players are on both sides - Have a look at their involvement in the game, who they were marking at different stages etc and it raises a lot of questions not alone about the obvious why no Wexford players were named, but also, how the two Clare players managed to be singled out above any other Clare players.

Something absolutely stinks here and it is very important for both the HSE and the GAA that we get to the bottom of it.

formerlyET

Clareman wrote: »

There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to start. My boss doesn't have the entitlement to know my medical details just because she is managing a large group of people let alone a manager of a non-elite sport team, I might choose to share information with her but she isn't entitled to it. This is an ordinary situation involving an ordinary citizens, there are schools with far more people involved.

Well, I'm assuming they were not given medical details and just a general outline of the situation in order to proceed with protecting and arranging the rest of the group. Surely that's fine? You say they were given individual medical records?

Clareman

formerlyET wrote: »

Well, I'm assuming they were not given medical details and just a general outline of the situation in order to proceed with protecting and arranging the rest of the group. Surely that's fine? You say they were given individual medical records?

It appears that Lohan was told that 2 of his players were close contacts to 2 Wexford players, their identify who tested positive for COVID and how the Wexford players named the Clare players as close contacts. That appears to me that he was given individual medical records (those that had COVID) as well as details on the discussion between the players and the HSE. That doesn't appear fine to me, the fact that Lohan identified the player with COVID as "coming on in the 51st minute" means that anyone can figure our who had the positive player, the fact that 2 players came on at the same time means that the other player is incorrectly assumed to have COVID as well.

formerlyET

Clareman wrote: »

It appears that Lohan was told that 2 of his players were close contacts to 2 Wexford players, their identify who tested positive for COVID and how the Wexford players named the Clare players as close contacts. That appears to me that he was given individual medical records (those that had COVID) as well as details on the discussion between the players and the HSE. That doesn't appear fine to me, the fact that Lohan identified the player with COVID as "coming on in the 51st minute" means that anyone can figure our who had the positive player, the fact that 2 players came on at the same time means that the other player is incorrectly assumed to have COVID as well.

I think everyone knew who the two players were at that stage. It was online, all over the shop.

That he was told what two players were involved, was probably an effort to find out who they were marking, if all they had was a helmet colour. They probably asked told Lohan, they have helmet colours only and the names of the positive are, do you know who they were marking?

That does not constitute giving someone's medical records.

And even if that's not what happened and they've explained to Lohan what's happened in detail, using names, I still don't think that qualifies as private medical records.

Has a patient's privacy been breached? YES.
Is that the fault of Lohan? Absolutely not.
It's who ever gave the info and created the situation.

Does Lohan run the HSE?
Did Lohan decide two of his players were close contacts?
Does Lohan have a right to fight his players corner and raise their concerns?

Figerty

Clareman wrote: »

It appears that Lohan was told that 2 of his players were close contacts to 2 Wexford players, their identify who tested positive for COVID and how the Wexford players named the Clare players as close contacts. That appears to me that he was given individual medical records (those that had COVID) as well as details on the discussion between the players and the HSE. That doesn't appear fine to me, the fact that Lohan identified the player with COVID as "coming on in the 51st minute" means that anyone can figure our who had the positive player, the fact that 2 players came on at the same time means that the other player is incorrectly assumed to have COVID as well.

If the limit of what Brian Lohan has done wrong is saying that a sub has come on when they are named on other forums, then it's a very small issue for me. If what he said was a mistake then so be it.

The fact that appears is that someone decided to name two clare players as close contacts when they weren't should be a far bigger concern and not the players on the wexford side who were far closer is the nub of the issue.

Do I beleive there is malicus intent in this..I sure do. That is a far bigger cocern.

jackboy

BnB wrote: »

Something absolutely stinks here and it is very important for both the HSE and the GAA that we get to the bottom of it.

Two organisations famous for not getting to the bottom of things.

Why would they bother. Keep the head down and it will blow over. Truth is, outside of Clare GAA, no one cares.

BnB

Figerty wrote: »

....do I beleive there is malicus intent in this..I sure do. That is a far bigger cocern.

The fact is.... It's either malicious intent from somebody (or some group) or else it is gross incompetency from someone in the HSE.

Either one is an extremely serious matter and needs to be gotten to the bottom of.

jackboy wrote: »

Two organisations famous for not getting to the bottom of things.

Why would they bother. Keep the head down and it will blow over. Truth is, outside of Clare GAA, no one cares.

Very true. I wonder if Clare County Board (or the individual players involved, but I wouldn't ask them to do it - They need to focus on hurling) made an official complaint to the HSE Ombudsman or even the Gardai, would it trigger an investigation that would have to be seen through....?

The other question of course is, do our own county board have a genuine appetite to get to the bottom of it ????

Clareman

I'm hearing the Clare hurlers had a disaster of an evening Friday evening, lost heavily to a second string Limerick team and Pat O'Connor badly injured his knee.

letowski

Clareman wrote: »

I'm hearing the Clare hurlers had a disaster of an evening Friday evening, lost heavily to a second string Limerick team and Pat O'Connor badly injured his knee.

Saw Clare Echo’s report on it. Sad to hear about Pat, I wonder will we see him play for Clare again. Although he is still 29. Looked like experimental line ups, which probably means not many are putting their hands up for places unfortunately.

jackboy

Clare footballers one point down at half time. Terrific effort though. Cork very efficient with their chances so going to be tough.

Figerty

Clareman wrote: »

I'm hearing the Clare hurlers had a disaster of an evening Friday evening, lost heavily to a second string Limerick team and Pat O'Connor badly injured his knee.

is there heavy training going on?

Clareman

Cork down a man, some nasty elbows flying in from both sides

Clareman

Figerty wrote: »

is there heavy training going on?

They've only 1 hurling session done so you'd be hoping they'll be hitting the ground running for Waterford

Clareman

Huge 5 minutes in Clare football history coming up, point down with an extra man