Clare GAA Discussion - 2024 All Ireland Hurling Champions

windy shepard henderson · 10-10-2020 3:27am

BloodyBill wrote: »

Its a pity Podge left it so late. Lohan has a job of work to do to get a performance from that squad. Traditionally the Derby with Limerick is close but its hard to see that happening this year.
The footballers should do OK.. but no matter what side they put out they ll get beat by 10plus by Kerry and probably Cork...

dont think they will get beat by cork by ten points for a while , football down there is worse then here , but they wont get a sniff against kerry if they meet them in the final

its sad in a way looking forward from a 2013 point of view to see so many players had such short careers blame football , fitz whoever the fact is somthing had to give with the effort he was putting in back in 13/14 , won an all ireland senior and 21 , county football and lost the munster football final by a point to crokes in 13
won the double in 14 with cratloe ,tried to duel code at intercounty , won a league double with the hurlers and footballers (division 3) in 2016 which is a fair achievement at intercounty level

KIB4Life · 10-10-2020 8:06am

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

i still regard him a far better hurler then footballer , it probably is the last we will see him hurling i think

regrettably you could see this coming back in 2013 and 14 , himself conor mcgrath and cathal mcinerney were doing far too much between hurling ,football 21s and the club football and hurling runs in munster

at one stage i think they won the county football championship on a Saturday and played and beat the waterford champions the next day

Going by the football Championship recently then Podge certainly isn’t in decline from a football point of view anyway, probably one of the main reasons why Cratloe got to the final and one of the few Cratloe players to perform well in the final. Would be a serious addition to the football panel if he was to join the panel.

Clareman · 10-10-2020 3:30pm

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

dont think they will get beat by cork by ten points for a while , football down there is worse then here , but they wont get a sniff against kerry if they meet them in the final

its sad in a way looking forward from a 2013 point of view to see so many players had such short careers blame football , fitz whoever the fact is somthing had to give with the effort he was putting in back in 13/14 , won an all ireland senior and 21 , county football and lost the munster football final by a point to crokes in 13
won the double in 14 with cratloe ,tried to duel code at intercounty , won a league double with the hurlers and footballers (division 3) in 2016 which is a fair achievement at intercounty level

Everything was going to be blamed for the failure to kick on after 2013, that was too many games, not enough focus, not enough investment, not enough support, not enough..... the fact was we were lucky in 2013 and won by playing a hybrid under 21/senior style when we went to a complete Davy style we weren't good enough. There's no point in dwelling on the past though and if a 28 year old wants to drop off the intercounty panel, so be it. Personally I think he's a massive loss to the hurlers as he was a great fighter for the ball and we don't have that many ball winners left.

windy shepard henderson · 10-10-2020 11:25pm

Clareman wrote: »

Everything was going to be blamed for the failure to kick on after 2013, that was too many games, not enough focus, not enough investment, not enough support, not enough..... the fact was we were lucky in 2013 and won by playing a hybrid under 21/senior style when we went to a complete Davy style we weren't good enough. There's no point in dwelling on the past though and if a 28 year old wants to drop off the intercounty panel, so be it. Personally I think he's a massive loss to the hurlers as he was a great fighter for the ball and we don't have that many ball winners left.

True, probably the best summary of 2013 I have seen, we were lucky to win, we had the game won the first day with 7 minutes remaining and blew the lead and but for a total stroke of luck forgred a replay, the madness of the second game hides that fact,

Clareman · 10-10-2020 11:58pm

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

True, probably the best summary of 2013 I have seen, we were lucky to win, we had the game won the first day with 7 minutes remaining and blew the lead and but for a total stroke of luck forgred a replay, the madness of the second game hides that fact,

I didn't really mean the All Ireland itself, more the build up, extra time to Wexford, double marking Joe Canning, Limerick not showing up, Honan's goal against Limerick, Cork just playing hurling.

For the finals, we f**ked up the first day in my opinion by not making changes when we should but we won and that's all that matters isn't it????

Clareman · 11-10-2020 12:11am

And as a way to highlight how lucky we were in 2013, look at SoD's 3 goals from a Cork point of view, absolutely terrible defending but great finishing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLUf3gwIm1U

windy shepard henderson · 11-10-2020 2:57am

Clareman wrote: »

And as a way to highlight how lucky we were in 2013, look at SoD's 3 goals from a Cork point of view, absolutely terrible defending but great finishing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLUf3gwIm1U

Watching the Cork County final last week not much has changed, they have excellent forwards but awful backs, Shane O'Neill was the main culprit in 13 to be fair

windy shepard henderson · 11-10-2020 3:02am

Clareman wrote: »

I didn't really mean the All Ireland itself, more the build up, extra time to Wexford, double marking Joe Canning, Limerick not showing up, Honan's goal against Limerick, Cork just playing hurling.

For the finals, we f**ked up the first day in my opinion by not making changes when we should but we won and that's all that matters isn't it????

I was heavily offended by the" flash in the pan " All ireland by one or two counties in the aftermath

Limerick and Galway have had their flash in the pans also but at least both of them were infactic in victory we Stumbled over the line when we should have costed

Figerty · 11-10-2020 8:21am

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

I was heavily offended by the" flash in the pan " All ireland by one or two counties in the aftermath

Limerick and Galway have had their flash in the pans also but at least both of them were infactic in victory we Stumbled over the line when we should have costed

Didn't limerick win by one point? If the match had another 3 minutes it could have been a different story. But it was a deserved win.
The difference was Galway have been close a few time. Limerick followed up with a League and Munster win, so rather than a flash in the pan, it's more a story of underachievement witht the talent available.

BloodyBill · 11-10-2020 9:25am

2013 was a great win. They were a good team ,playing a very exciting brand of hurling. It wasnt going to last. We were lucky in our run in but we totally deserved to beat everyone we played. Nobody mentions Corks handy All Ireland in 99. Or Wexfords in 96 when Limerick didn't play at all. So the flash in the pan stuff is pointless. A win is a win. You won't ever hear Cody complain about us winning 2013.
But it was unsustainable. Remember the narrative?! Hurling was going to be for the small guys...Podge ,Sod ect...triangles...no more long puck outs, give and goes..And we stuck with that for about 5 years when everyone else had moved on. Hurling evolves,the basics stay the same. Clare are still the worst of the Liam McCarthy teams at catching the ball. Thats terrible. Our half forward line is weak .Lohan is the right man for the job and he ll get the most from them. We ll surprise everyone and put Limerick to the pin of their collar but i can't see us beating them. The backdoor might be a godsend. We badly need fresh blood in all lines and we might get a winning formula. We were very good in the league. So I'd say we are in transition and Lohan needs support. What we must hope for is that Davy stays with Wexford indefinitely so that his acolytes don't start undermining the current management.

willietherock · 11-10-2020 1:05pm

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

Watching the Cork County final last week not much has changed, they have excellent forwards but awful backs, Shane O'Neill was the main culprit in 13 to be fair

Goals 1 and 2 there had nothing to do with Shane O'Neill.

windy shepard henderson · 11-10-2020 11:37pm

willietherock wrote: »

Goals 1 and 2 there had nothing to do with Shane O'Neill.

Goals aside he was poor full stop, and to be fair Cork have been better than clare since but defensively have probably lost 2 all Irelands,

If players like Horgan, harnedy and Lehane have to join a list of players too good not to win an all ireland the world is about to end especially when they are Cork men

windy shepard henderson · 11-10-2020 11:44pm

Figerty wrote: »

Didn't limerick win by one point? If the match had another 3 minutes it could have been a different story. But it was a deserved win.
The difference was Galway have been close a few time. Limerick followed up with a League and Munster win, so rather than a flash in the pan, it's more a story of underachievement witht the talent available.

Cork are an excellent side could have easily won 2 all Irelands in the Last 7 years had they had a bit of luck, we beat them after a replay and people were quick to play it down, counties like clare, wexford, Galway limerick don't have the huge traditions of kilkenny tipp and Cork so we will happily take 1 all ireland every generation

Clareman · 12-10-2020 9:44am

There's no point in looking at it any other way, 2013 was a complete and utter flash in the pan, 1 All Ireland semi final in the 6 years after that confirms that. We had a brilliant under 21 team, got lucky in 2013 and failed to capitalize on it by playing in a manner that didn't suit our players, we were always more concerned about our backs that we were our forwards. We've a bunch of 27/28 year olds who should be in their prime but really because of the amount of mileage they've had they are coming to the end of their careers.

Clareman · 12-10-2020 9:48am

Anyway, moving onto the footballers, massive game at the weekend, with Laois, Kildare and Westmeath all playing each other over the last 2 rounds you'd hope that beat/get walk over against Fermanagh we'd be safe, with the deteriorating state of play with COVID it's hard to see the league being played out.

lab man · 12-10-2020 10:03am

Should they not postpone the fermanagh match for fairness I'd like if we had players missing that they would for us

Clareman · 12-10-2020 10:14am

lab man wrote: »

Should they not postpone the fermanagh match for fairness I'd like if we had players missing that they would for us

The problem is when are they going to postpone it to? Clare are out 3 weeks in a row, Fermanagh, Armagh and then the championship. Personally I think they shouldn't bother with the league and just concentrate on the championship.

JR Harvey · 12-10-2020 10:14pm

We've a bunch of 27/28 year olds who should be in their prime but really because of the amount of mileage they've had they are coming to the end of their careers.[/QUOTE]

It is nothing only partly to do with mileage. Look at what Tipperary and Kilkenny are getting, and have got, out of their players around 30 years of age. Those players have even more mileage up than the Clare lads.

BloodyBill · 13-10-2020 9:56am

JR Harvey wrote: »

We've a bunch of 27/28 year olds who should be in their prime but really because of the amount of mileage they've had they are coming to the end of their careers.

It is nothing only partly to do with mileage. Look at what Tipperary and Kilkenny are getting, and have got, out of their players around 30 years of age. Those players have even more mileage up than the Clare lads.[/quote]

Totally agree. Mileage isn't an issue. Its appetite. Podge was a bit part player the last few years. He could have played an important part like Tom Condon does for Limerick. He chose not to and thats disappointing. We need all the experience we can get.
2013 was a hard fought win. We won and Talk of 'flash in the pan' ect is rubbish.

Clareman · 13-10-2020 11:18am

I would have thought that 1 All Ireland out of no-where followed by another barren period would have been the definition of a flash in the pan, couple that with a lack of underage success only makes it worse. Looking at our championship form for the 6 years before and after 2013

2007 - Knocked out in the first round of Munster and All Ireland quarter final
2008 - Beaten in Munster final and All Ireland quarter final
2009 - Knocked out in the first round of Munster and first round of All Ireland qualifers
2010 - Knocked out in the first round of Munster and first round of All Ireland qualifiers
2011 - Knocked out in the first round of Munster and first round of All Ireland qualifiers
2012 - Knocked out in the first round of Munster and second round of All Ireland qualifiers
2013 - ALL IRELAND CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
2014 - Knocked out in the first round of Munster and first round of All Ireland qualifiers
2015 - Knocked out in the first round of Munster and second round of All Ireland qualifiers
2016 - Knocked out in the first round of Munster and All Ireland quarter final
2017 - Beaten in Munster final and All Ireland quarter final
2018 - Beaten in Munster final and All Ireland semi final replay - best performance of the
2019 - Knocked out in Munster

Besides 2018 there isn't a huge difference between pre and post 2013. I agree that the players don't have the appetite for it, I guess it's hard to blame them when they are up on a pedestal and don't have anyone coming through to challenge them for their places on the team.

BloodyBill · 13-10-2020 6:57pm

Clareman wrote: »

I would have thought that 1 All Ireland out of no-where followed by another barren period would have been the definition of a flash in the pan, couple that with a lack of underage success only makes it worse. Looking at our championship form for the 6 years before and after 2013

2007 - Knocked out in the first round of Munster and All Ireland quarter final
2008 - Beaten in Munster final and All Ireland quarter final
2009 - Knocked out in the first round of Munster and first round of All Ireland qualifers
2010 - Knocked out in the first round of Munster and first round of All Ireland qualifiers
2011 - Knocked out in the first round of Munster and first round of All Ireland qualifiers
2012 - Knocked out in the first round of Munster and second round of All Ireland qualifiers
2013 - ALL IRELAND CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
2014 - Knocked out in the first round of Munster and first round of All Ireland qualifiers
2015 - Knocked out in the first round of Munster and second round of All Ireland qualifiers
2016 - Knocked out in the first round of Munster and All Ireland quarter final
2017 - Beaten in Munster final and All Ireland quarter final
2018 - Beaten in Munster final and All Ireland semi final replay - best performance of the
2019 - Knocked out in Munster

Besides 2018 there isn't a huge difference between pre and post 2013. I agree that the players don't have the appetite for it, I guess it's hard to blame them when they are up on a pedestal and don't have anyone coming through to challenge them for their places on the team.

2016,17 and 18 ...still up there . What about Corks team of 1966 or Limerick of 73.....Wexford of 96 has to be the handiest All Ireland...and they were an average team .

Clareman · 13-10-2020 7:23pm

BloodyBill wrote: »

2016,17 and 18 ...still up there . What about Corks team of 1966 or Limerick of 73.....Wexford of 96 has to be the handiest All Ireland...and they were an average team .

2016, lost to Waterford by 7 points in Munster, beat Laois and Limerick in the qualifiers and then lost to Galway by 6 points.
2017, beat Limerick in the first round of Munster, lost to Cork by 5 points in the Munster final and then to Tipp in the quarter final.
Neither of those years would be classified as "still up there", I agree with you about 2018, in fact I would nearly say that 2018 was the most frustrating because it showed what we were capable of.

I don't like to compare teams of the knock out era to the present time because it's chalk and cheese but I wouldn't call any All Ireland "handy", I definitely wouldn't call an All Ireland that you have to beat Kilkenny, Offaly (who had contested the 2 previous All Irelands), Galway and Limerick, as handy and I'd say that if it wasn't for the back door in 97 when they defended their Leinster title that they could have really rattled Clare. As for the Limerick team of 73, they DESTROYED Clare in the Munster final of 74, in fact they got to 4 Munster finals in a row in the 70s which wasn't exactly the sign of a bad team.

I would say that no average team has ever won an All Ireland but manys the team of average hurlers have won an All Ireland.

BloodyBill · 13-10-2020 8:23pm

Clareman wrote: »

2016, lost to Waterford by 7 points in Munster, beat Laois and Limerick in the qualifiers and then lost to Galway by 6 points.
2017, beat Limerick in the first round of Munster, lost to Cork by 5 points in the Munster final and then to Tipp in the quarter final.
Neither of those years would be classified as "still up there", I agree with you about 2018, in fact I would nearly say that 2018 was the most frustrating because it showed what we were capable of.

I don't like to compare teams of the knock out era to the present time because it's chalk and cheese but I wouldn't call any All Ireland "handy", I definitely wouldn't call an All Ireland that you have to beat Kilkenny, Offaly (who had contested the 2 previous All Irelands), Galway and Limerick, as handy and I'd say that if it wasn't for the back door in 97 when they defended their Leinster title that they could have really rattled Clare. As for the Limerick team of 73, they DESTROYED Clare in the Munster final of 74, in fact they got to 4 Munster finals in a row in the 70s which wasn't exactly the sign of a bad team.

I would say that no average team has ever won an All Ireland but manys the team of average hurlers have won an All Ireland.

Good post. Tip of my Fedora to you.

Pogue eile · 13-10-2020 10:37pm

BloodyBill wrote: »

It is nothing only partly to do with mileage. Look at what Tipperary and Kilkenny are getting, and have got, out of their players around 30 years of age. Those players have even more mileage up than the Clare lads.

Mileage has nothing to do with games played, that Clare team were flogged to death for three years at u21 and most at senior at the same time, have a look at how many of them suffered serious leg,knee and hip injuries, its frightening. Another cohort had their love of the game slowly sucked from them from being flogged to death, Darach Honan is a perfect example and has spoken on the matter a number of times. Podge and Conor mMcGrath two very obvious guys who also lost their appetite for the game.

Sterling Archer · 14-10-2020 11:36am

Clare Vs Fermanagh is not available on any traditional channels
It can be bought on GaaGo for €5

https://www.gaago.ie/fixture/PL5-20-F-W9J

Clareman · 14-10-2020 11:40am

There was an annual pass up for €70 not too long ago, I was going to buy it for the weekend, I figured all going well I'd get the end of the league as well as this and next years championships, they seem to have taken it down now.

Clareman · 14-10-2020 11:43pm

The match is to go ahead at the weekend, can't see how it can but sure the GAA says it can so it can.....

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40065008.html?type=amp

Personally I think we should just keep our mouths shut and concentrate on the 2 points

Figerty · 14-10-2020 11:48pm

Clareman wrote: »

The match is to go ahead at the weekend, can't see how it can but sure the GAA says it can so it can.....

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40065008.html?type=amp

Personally I think we should just keep our mouths shut and concentrate on the 2 points

What goes around will come around... we should be accomodating them if possible

Treble double · 15-10-2020 2:37am

Figerty wrote: »

What goes around will come around... we should be accomodating them if possible

The talk is the Fermanagh camp are making this situation out to be worse than it actually is.
We shouldn't give them an inch, be fully prepared for battle and make sure we beat them, survival is at stake here.
Ricey McMenamin resorted to all sorts of underhand tactics to gain advantage as a player and don't be naive enough to think he wouldn't do it as a manager.

Figerty · 15-10-2020 11:02am

Treble double wrote: »

The talk is the Fermanagh camp are making this situation out to be worse than it actually is.
We shouldn't give them an inch, be fully prepared for battle and make sure we beat them, survival is at stake here.
Ricey McMenamin resorted to all sorts of underhand tactics to gain advantage as a player and don't be naive enough to think he wouldn't do it as a manager.

Ya. I don't disagree with that either. But if a player is Covid positive, thenn they are are restricited. If they aren't and they are playing that card, then to hell with that.

Clare GAA Discussion - 2024 All Ireland Hurling Champions

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