Clare GAA Discussion - 2024 All Ireland Hurling Champions

keeponhurling

We missed John Conlon a lot.

We don’t have the depth of talent to simply replace somebody like that.

Clareman

We were beaten between the 40s and also by the lack of scorers, still a bit raw but

Clare: Eibhear Quilligan 6 - solid first appearance, pucks out were constantly under pressure, got pulled harshly by the ref for going out of the small square but that's a rookie mistake for any goalie
Jack Browne 6 - didn't concede as many frees as he normally would, game was played in front of him so didn't have a lot to do
Conor Cleary 5 - not a bad first stint as full back, good stop near the end for a goal
Rory Hayes 5 - was he playing???
Patrick O’Connor - 4 I don't think he played the ball successfully at any stage
Seadna Morey - 4 miscontrolled the ball a few times, didn't do much
Stephen O’Halloran 5 - gets an extra point for a good point in the first half
David McInerney - 4 poor performance with a midfield that was completely missing
Cathal Malone - 5 see above, gets an extra point for scoring 2 points
Diarmuid Ryan - 5 scored a couple of points but was fighting an uphill battle contantly
David Reidy 3 - terrible performance, totally missing and ran around like a headless chicken.
David Fitzgerald 3 - see Reidy
Tony Kelly 9 - 1 of his best performances ever, this is his position, few missed frees (3 I think) blotted his copy book a little but a brilliant display.
Shane O’Donnell 3 - see Reidy and Fitzgerald
Ryan Taylor 5 - took his chances well when they came to him.

Lohan 3 - Terrible tactics where we gave up the middle third of the pitch to protect against goals, no plan B for puck outs, didn't use all 5 subs, didn't make adjustments for a dominated midfield and half forward line.

Clareman

keeponhurling wrote: »

We missed John Conlon a lot.

We don’t have the depth of talent to simply replace somebody like that.

Yeah we missed Conlon, Duggan and Galvin, also missed a Podge type annoyance who would have harrassed the Limerick backs.

Feenie

Clareman wrote: »

Very strange, a 10 point loss is a hammering no matter what way you look at it, conceding 36 scores is shocking.

3 Munster hurling championship matches for Clare this year and we're beaten by 8, 10 and 10 points, hard not to be depressed with not only those types of losses by the nature of the losses.

in the modern game of hurling 10 points get be turned around so quick I don't think it's a hammering really.
a hammering kind of implies clare were never there to win, they certainly were though.
Limerick just took control in the end and when it came down to it Clare lost control and that was the end.

Clareman

Feenie wrote: »

in the modern game of hurling 10 points get be turned around so quick I don't think it's a hammering really.
a hammering kind of implies clare were never there to win, they certainly were though.
Limerick just took control in the end and when it came down to it Clare lost control and that was the end.

A 4 score loss is a hammering in any sport. We weren't ever there to win, I don't think we were in the lead at any stage and were lucky to be level at half time after playing with the wind in the first half, Limerick took control with 5 quick points to start the second half and kept us at arms length the whole time.

Feenie

Lads day is bleak but take away a few positive. Lads who would have much experience in the championship showed they can be up there like Eibhear Quiligan and Stephen O'Halloran. I have more faith in this team after that match.
we're missing alot of players, but when they return we'll have a good go at Limerick and the rest of the teams in Munster. Have faith in Brian and the rest of the panel

Clareman

I'd love to have your faith Feenie, I really would but having shipped heavy losses in all championship matches this years makes me thing that the future is extremely bleak.

Feenie

Clareman wrote: »

I'd love to have your faith Feenie, I really would but having shipped heavy losses in all championship matches this years makes me thing that the future is extremely bleak.

Those can be turned around, Brian is a smart guy. Whoever we play in the backdoor will put up with a more lethal, more intelligent Clare team.

Figerty

Clareman wrote: »

We were beaten between the 40s and also by the lack of scorers, still a bit raw but

Clare: Eibhear Quilligan 6 - solid first appearance, pucks out were constantly under pressure, got pulled harshly by the ref for going out of the small square but that's a rookie mistake for any goalie
Jack Browne 6 - didn't concede as many frees as he normally would, game was played in front of him so didn't have a lot to do
Conor Cleary 5 - not a bad first stint as full back, good stop near the end for a goal
Rory Hayes 5 - was he playing???
Patrick O’Connor - 4 I don't think he played the ball successfully at any stage
Seadna Morey - 4 miscontrolled the ball a few times, didn't do much
Stephen O’Halloran 5 - gets an extra point for a good point in the first half
David McInerney - 4 poor performance with a midfield that was completely missing
Cathal Malone - 5 see above, gets an extra point for scoring 2 points
Diarmuid Ryan - 5 scored a couple of points but was fighting an uphill battle contantly
David Reidy 3 - terrible performance, totally missing and ran around like a headless chicken.
David Fitzgerald 3 - see Reidy
Tony Kelly 9 - 1 of his best performances ever, this is his position, few missed frees (3 I think) blotted his copy book a little but a brilliant display.
Shane O’Donnell 3 - see Reidy and Fitzgerald
Ryan Taylor 5 - took his chances well when they came to him.

Lohan 3 - Terrible tactics where we gave up the middle third of the pitch to protect against goals, no plan B for puck outs, didn't use all 5 subs, didn't make adjustments for a dominated midfield and half forward line.

Browne gave away awful defensive frees. A 6?
Cleary badly expsoed by the midlfield and balls in front. No goal given away today and on Gillane?
Shane O'Donnell won three frees? three TK points as a result. I doubt any other forward, bar Kelly threatend as much.
Taylor showed well
The problems are from number 5 to 12 and how they play.

David Mc. Needs room to run, not a midfield play.. wing back

No centre forward presence. David Riedy can only do so much at his height. At some stage, a big physical presence is needed.
Limerick far more at ease on the ball.
Limerick are good.. will benefit big time from today.

letowski

Cleary played solid today on Gillane and has been solid all season at full back, is one positive to take.

I think the half back line needs to be re-drawn. I don’t think Pat O’Connor is at this level anymore and Morey isn’t a center back. O’Halloran didn’t play well either. Diarmuid Ryan by rights should be wing back but has to play in the forwards to compensate for a lack of puckout options in the half forward line. McCarthy has to play center forward when he came on but is a half back also. Malone played his best hurling for Clare last year at wing back.

Problem is we have no natural midfield and half forward options to bring in to allow these players play in their best positions. We’re badly stuck for players 8-12.

Clareman

Figerty wrote: »

Browne gave away awful defensive frees. A 6?
Cleary badly expsoed by the midlfield and balls in front. No goal given away today and on Gillane?
Shane O'Donnell won three frees? three TK points as a result. I doubt any other forward, bar Kelly threatend as much.
Taylor showed well
The problems are from number 5 to 12 and how they play.

David Mc. Needs room to run, not a midfield play.. wing back

No centre forward presence. David Riedy can only do so much at his height. At some stage, a big physical presence is needed.
Limerick far more at ease on the ball.
Limerick are good.. will benefit big time from today.

The full back line never looked at risk, our whole gameplan was setup to protect them.

3 frees for SoD, really??? Can't say I remember 3, 2 maybe, but I also remember a bad widen and a couple of soft frees conceded.

The problems are everywhere unfortunately, we don't have the backs or the forwards or the midfield to compete at Limericks level.

Clareman

letowski wrote: »

Cleary played solid today on Gillane and has been solid all season at full back, is one positive to take.

I think the half back line needs to be re-drawn. I don’t think Pat O’Connor is at this level anymore and Morey isn’t a center back. O’Halloran didn’t play well either. Diarmuid Ryan by rights should be wing back but has to play in the forwards to compensate for a lack of puckout options in the half forward line. McCarthy has to play center forward when he came on but is a half back also. Malone played his best hurling for Clare last year at wing back.

Problem is we have no natural midfield and half forward options to bring in to allow these players play in their best positions. We’re badly stuck for players 8-12.

I agree, our half backs aren't up to scratch, our midfield isn't and our half forwards aren't either, we've nothing coming through and what we have isn't good enough.

Figerty

Clareman wrote: »

The full back line never looked at risk, our whole gameplan was setup to protect them.

3 frees for SoD, really??? Can't say I remember 3, 2 maybe, but I also remember a bad widen and a couple of soft frees conceded.

The problems are everywhere unfortunately, we don't have the backs or the forwards or the midfield to compete at Limericks level.

Ya, two in the first half. One in the second. Laid of one ball to Kelly for a score.

I agree re the problems. Conlon, Galvin and Duggan badly needed but not going to appear of thin air.

letowski

Possibly something like this the next day:

Qulligan
Hayes - Cleary - Browne
Malone - Davy Mc - O’Halloran
Taylor - McCarthy
Ryan - Fitz - McMahon
Kelly - Shanagher - O’Donnell

Slim pickings unfortunately

Clareman

Figerty wrote: »

Ya, two in the first half. One in the second. Laid of one ball to Kelly for a score.

I agree re the problems. Conlon, Galvin and Duggan badly needed but not going to appear of thin air.

I don't have enough self hate to rewatch that match so I'll take your word for it. I don't think that's enough of a return for a supposed senior player though

BloodyBill

Pogue eile wrote: »

I know you are a bit down and all but catch yourself on a small bit.

To be fair to O'Donnell someone said earlier that he does a lot of unseen work and by god he did a full 70 minutes of it again today!

Donal O Grady said regarding O Donnell 'hes one of the most dangerous cornef forwards in the country.
Limerick will improve again and probably have too much again for Tipp..

BloodyBill

letowski wrote: »

Possibly something like this the next day:

Qulligan
Hayes - Cleary - Browne
Malone - Davy Mc - O’Halloran
Taylor - McCarthy
Ryan - Fitz - McMahon
Kelly - Shanagher - O’Donnell

Slim pickings unfortunately

Deck chairs being rearranged on the Titanic im afraid.

Feenie

letowski wrote: »

Possibly something like this the next day:

Qulligan
Hayes - Cleary - Browne
Malone - Davy Mc - O’Halloran
Taylor - McCarthy
Ryan - Fitz - McMahon
Kelly - Shanagher - O’Donnell

Slim pickings unfortunately

I don't disagree with this as much, other than I like Cathal Malone at full forward. I want to keep Tony in midfield but keep moving him around and around, half forward, full forward, soon.
I think Davy Mc at half back line would be major, he could even pick a few scores depending on how we play our system

Clareman

BloodyBill wrote: »

Donal O Grady said regarding O Donnell 'hes one of the most dangerous cornef forwards in the country.

I really don't get where these assessments of him come from, take the All Ireland Final Replay out of his CV and he's an average corner forward at best. Loads of explanations are given for his lack of scoring (poor ball, double marked, unseen work) but he hasn't shone out in any match, there has been the odd spark like his goal in the replay against Galway but he hasn't performed as a corner forward in my opinion.

Clareman

Feenie wrote: »

I don't disagree with this as much, other than I like Cathal Malone at full forward. I want to keep Tony in midfield but keep moving him around and around, half forward, full forward, soon.
I think Davy Mc at half back line would be major, he could even pick a few scores depending on how we play our system

It has been shown against Cork last year and Limerick this year that Kelly's position is corner forward and let him go wherever he wants

Pogue eile

BloodyBill wrote: »

Donal O Grady said regarding O Donnell 'hes one of the most dangerous cornef forwards in the country.
Limerick will improve again and probably have too much again for Tipp..

That's your barometer is it? O'Grady was trying to talk up what was a poor challenge match.

Since 2013 O'Donnell has scored 6-25 in 22 matches that's less that 2 points a game and he's not a physical hurler who breaks the game up for others.

So what exactly is it that makes him one of the best forwards in the game

Feenie

Pogue eile wrote: »

That's your barometer is it? O'Grady was trying to talk up what was a poor challenge match.

Since 2013 O'Donnell has scored 6-25 in 22 matches that's less that 2 points a game and he's not a physical hurler who breaks the game up for others.

So what exactly is it that makes him one of the best forwards in the game

His hard work rate and ability to harrass and setup scores. In another championship he's huge, but a lack of John Conlon means he's not as prevalent

Clareman

Feenie wrote: »

His hard work rate and ability to harrass and setup scores. In another championship he's huge, but a lack of John Conlon means he's not as prevalent

I'd say that Podge was far better than him at all of that. All I see is a guy who runs around with his hurley over his head looking for frees.

Feenie

Clareman wrote: »

I'd say that Podge was far better than him at all of that. All I see is a guy who runs around with his hurley over his head looking for frees.

Admittedly I expect more of Shane. I think Brian needs to coach back into his biggest role on the squad to me, as a dangerous goal poacher. He has that kind of creativity when he gets the ball and he's close enough to goal.

Figerty

Clareman wrote: »

I'd say that Podge was far better than him at all of that. All I see is a guy who runs around with his hurley over his head looking for frees.

The reality is that O'Donnell isn't the problem. The problem is our inability of the middle diamond to control a game and drive a team back.
When was the last time we saw a midfield break the half forward line and feed a full forward? Colin Lynch probably. Pat Donnelan occasionally.

Where is the structure that pulls half back lines back to face their own goals.

Look our club standard is way off what we saw in Tipp, Waterford or Limerick, it's time to look at what's happening on the ground and see what needs to be done to up that standard, and the aggression that needed at County leve. Aggression doesn't mean wound up close to looking it. It's about attacking the game.

Feenie

Figerty wrote: »

The reality is that O'Donnell isn't the problem. The problem is our inability of the middle diamond to control a game and drive a team back.
When was the last time we saw a midfield break the half forward line and feed a full forward? Colin Lynch probably. Pat Donnelan occasionally.

Where is the structure that pulls half back lines back to face their own goals.

Look our club standard is way off what we saw in Tipp, Waterford or Limerick, it's time to look at what's happening on the ground and see what needs to be done to up that standard, and the aggression that needed at County leve. Aggression doesn't mean wound up close to looking it. It's about attacking the game.

That's the biggest issue in Clare, you even see in our u20s. They never attack the ball, they just kind of stand there waiting for it to come to their hand/stick. I see a bit of hope though at under age in our clubs. In my own club Parteen they seem to be very good at attacking the ball around u14-u16. I can't comment on a bigger more important club like say Cratloe or SixmileBridge, but I think maybe in a few years time the next generation will look good.

Clareman

Feenie wrote: »

Admittedly I expect more of Shane. I think Brian needs to coach back into his biggest role on the squad to me, as a dangerous goal poacher. He has that kind of creativity when he gets the ball and he's close enough to goal.

Looking at his goals since 2013. 2019 - 1 goal, 2018 - 1 goal, 2017 - 2 goals, 2016 - 1 goal, 2015 - 1 goal and in 2014 he didn't play.

letowski

With Shane O’Donnell, he doesn’t have a wide repertoire of striking skills for him to be consistently hitting 3 or 4 scores a game. He needs to be running towards the goal and within a certain range to score. You saw Gillane’s first point, running away from goal, on the sideline, a bit of room and over the bar. O’Donnell can’t take that shot on. Reality is he is not an Aaron Gillane or John McGrath that can take ball in traffic and shoot from hard angles or difficult strikes.

It doesn’t mean he cannot cause serious damage to a team though. He has some excellent attributes like pace and an outstanding first touch and can win frees. But he is at his best when he is put in a position to take on his man and run towards the goal. Problem is we don’t get him that sort of ball enough.

He is a good not elite inside forward.

keeponhurling

Clareman wrote: »

, we don't have the backs or the forwards or the midfield to compete .

This could be a problem for a hurling team Ok

Figerty

keeponhurling wrote: »

This could be a problem for a hurling team Ok

Implies we, at least, have a goalie..