Clare GAA Discussion - 2024 All Ireland Hurling Champions

BloodyBill

Clareman wrote: »

I'd say that Podge was far better than him at all of that. All I see is a guy who runs around with his hurley over his head looking for frees.

Podge was not on anywhere the same level as SOD. A good link man was Podge for about 3 years .Youre argument has gone way beyond reality at this stage..
We won the All Ireland because of O Donnell. On a bad day he still brings others into the game. Listen the experts agree he's a class act. Not one commentator out there agrees with you and the other poster denigrating him. You have an issue with him. He is effective even when he doesn't score which is rarely. He won 3 scored frees today with no good ball. He missed one bad wide. In a better team he'd run riot. Your totally wrong about him.

Patchin

It's worse they going to get

BnB

BloodyBill wrote: »

Podge was not on anywhere the same level as SOD. A good link man was Podge for about 3 years .Youre argument has gone way beyond reality at this stage..
We won the All Ireland because of O Donnell. On a bad day he still brings others into the game. Listen the experts agree he's a class act. Not one commentator out there agrees with you and the other poster denigrating him. You have an issue with him. He is effective even when he doesn't score which is rarely. He won 3 scored frees today with no good ball. He missed one bad wide. In a better team he'd run riot. Your totally wrong about him.

Wasting your time talking to him about Shane O Donnell. He just doesn't like the guy and point blank refuses to see anything good in anything he does.

Today is a perfect example. On a day when we were completely decimated in the middle 3rd and the inside forwards got sweet FA ball into them, as usual, he's on here having a go at SOD.

Waste of time talking to him.

Clareman

I'm having a discussion with other posters, we don't all have to agree, we can have a discussion, SoD has been brought up by others and is being discussed, some people rate him far higher than I do and I just want people to back up their claims with facts rather than unseen work or potential or if he was on another team etc. etc. Our full forward line today 1-8 from play, that's a decent return from a line but when 1 player doesn't score anything it could be better..

Today I think we conceded the middle of the pitch to the opposition, our full back and forward lines did ok, as I said the full forward line scored 1-8 from play and the full back line conceded 7 points from play and didn't give up any goal chances, they're the positives from the game. The negatives for me would be the other 3 lines and our inability to change tactics or use our bench. Going into the game we expected to be beaten by at least 6 points, 10 points was a fair reflection on the game BUT we were within 1 points after 48 minutes but we never looked to be in the same league as Limerick today.

windy shepard henderson

Not going to join the post mortem as to blame who is to blame for today, but fact is we were missing 6 starters from the 2018 semi final defeat to Galway, limerick have got better since their 2018 win, back then if we lost one player we were in trouble so to be fair today has to be expected

Players missing were

Touhy
Podge
Duggan
Conlon
Galvin
Shanahan

We can’t afford to be without anyone so a ten point defeat against an excellent limerick team is to be expected, yes I am concerned about the middle 3rd and the poor supply to the forwards, we don't have enough depth to compete with the best in the country and surely that was known before today

I am slightly worried about the 36 points conceded but I put the openness of the game down to the behind closed doors scenario, fact is teams of limerick and tipperarys stature are 10 points a better team then us at the moment because of what they have available and what we have lost

windy shepard henderson

Patchin wrote: »

It's worse they going to get

Yeah we have a few lean years ahead of us until we can get the likes of the Rodgers, the Meehans the butlers (if he's not playing for munster) the Cahills or the heagertys up to inter County speed it's far from doom and gloom also young Ryan at scarrif and one or two from clarecastle (provided they don't ruin them) we have plenty coming through once there looked after, roll on 2025......!!!

letowski

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

Yeah we have a few lean years ahead of us until we can get the likes of the Rodgers, the Meehans the butlers (if he's not playing for munster) the Cahills or the heagertys up to inter County speed it's far from doom and gloom also young Ryan at scarrif and one or two from clarecastle (provided they don't ruin them) we have plenty coming through once there looked after, roll on 2025......!!!

I'll try to stay on the positive side too.

If we can get John Conlon, Colm Galvin, maybe Peter Duggan returns, then add in Mark Rodgers and Cian Galvin from the 21s we could potentially inject 5 good players into our starting line up next season. It won't change the fact results underage haven't been good enough though.

I think with regards to this year, it's a bit of a lost cause now with so many absentees.

Davys Fits

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

Yeah we have a few lean years ahead of us until we can get the likes of the Rodgers, the Meehans the butlers (if he's not playing for munster) the Cahills or the heagertys up to inter County speed it's far from doom and gloom also young Ryan at scarrif and one or two from clarecastle (provided they don't ruin them) we have plenty coming through once there looked after, roll on 2025......!!!

Not a great prospect when you have to name them before they even make the squad and pluralise them aswell.

windy shepard henderson

Davys Fits wrote: »

Not a great prospect when you have to name them before they even make the squad and pluralise them aswell.

Not a great sign having a series of talent coming through who actually are holding their own at club level comfortably, of course we are pulverising them yes

Figerty

Davys Fits wrote: »

Not a great prospect when you have to name them before they even make the squad and pluralise them aswell.

Galvin from Clarecastle, who was on the under 20 team was a impressive.
Ross Hayes from Crusheen is another one.

You also have to think about the players we have lost in Conor McGrath, Honan etc. All still very young.
If Brian Lohan has a job to do, it's to rebuild and develop a new breed.

Feenie

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

Not going to join the post mortem as to blame who is to blame for today, but fact is we were missing 6 starters from the 2018 semi final defeat to Galway, limerick have got better since their 2018 win, back then if we lost one player we were in trouble so to be fair today has to be expected

Players missing were

Touhy
Podge
Duggan
Conlon
Galvin
Shanahan

We can’t afford to be without anyone so a ten point defeat against an excellent limerick team is to be expected, yes I am concerned about the middle 3rd and the poor supply to the forwards, we don't have enough depth to compete with the best in the country and surely that was known before today

I am slightly worried about the 36 points conceded but I put the openness of the game down to the behind closed doors scenario, fact is teams of limerick and tipperarys stature are 10 points a better team then us at the moment because of what they have available and what we have lost

Agreed. If we had Podge, Conlon, and Galvin as options I only see a 3-5 point victory for Limerick and if a possible victory for Clare.

BloodyBill

Feenie wrote: »

Agreed. If we had Podge, Conlon, and Galvin as options I only see a 3-5 point victory for Limerick and if a possible victory for Clare.

It still would have been 10. Last year it was 18 with those 3 playing. Why wasn't Rogers given a go yesterday. Hes strong enough,pitch him in.
With regards to the other young guys with potential, its good news. I have my doubts about the pathway to the senior team. Whats their strength and conditioning targets..do they have targets? We are still reaping the terrible decisions to promote small guys above big guys, that was the 2013 to 2017 model. It was a disaster...witness the photo of David Reidy against Hegarty yesterday..He looked like a tidy soccer player against a 2nd row Rugby player.

windy shepard henderson

BloodyBill wrote: »

It still would have been 10. Last year it was 18 with those 3 playing. Why wasn't Rogers given a go yesterday. Hes strong enough,pitch him in.
With regards to the other young guys with potential, its good news. I have my doubts about the pathway to the senior team. Whats their strength and conditioning targets..do they have targets? We are still reaping the terrible decisions to promote small guys above big guys, that was the 2013 to 2017 model. It was a disaster...witness the photo of David Reidy against Hegarty yesterday..He looked like a tidy soccer player against a 2nd row Rugby player.

To be fair you can't do anything about the size of players, however you are dead on about the conditioning we are miles away from tipperary limerick Galway ect..

windy shepard henderson

Figerty wrote: »

Galvin from Clarecastle, who was on the under 20 team was a impressive.
Ross Hayes from Crusheen is another one.

You also have to think about the players we have lost in Conor McGrath, Honan etc. All still very young.
If Brian Lohan has a job to do, it's to rebuild and develop a new breed.

I wouldn't take much notice to be fair, it's not like he has any clue of what we have coming through

Clareman

I don't see Lohans job as being building for the future, his job is to get Clare winning matches or at least being competitive.

As for missing players,we knew a year ago that Duggan wouldn't be involved and 7 months ago that Conlon was injured, if that's not enough time to make adjustments I don't know what else was needed. Of the other players mentioned, Tuohy wasn't exactly setting the world on fire, Podge was relegated to a squad role and Shanahan has never been a regular, Galvin was a big loss. Every team is going to be missing players and will have to adjust.

As for players coming through, I fear we are back to where we were in the early 00s where no matter how good players coming through are they wont be chanced, ideally we should have been replacing 1 or 2 players every year but now we are going to be in the situation where players will have to be replaced in large numbers.

Clareman

BloodyBill wrote: »

Why wasn't Rogers given a go yesterday. Hes strong enough,pitch him in.

Rogers wasn't on the panel yesterday but I agree that other players should have been tried, it was clear that we were being destroyed in the centre of the pitch BUT we only hit 1 ball into the edge of the square which resulted in the goal, it was clear that the Limerick full back line was shakey, why didn't we target them with long balls by passing the middle?

We brought on 4 subs yesterday, Shanagher at half time, Mccarthy for Reidy after 56, McMahon after 64 and Cunningham after 70. The only 1 of those changes which could have been considered an attempt to recover the situation was Mccarthy, at that stage we were a busted flush and should have made more changes to try to compete in the centre but we seemed happy to continue to do what we were doing to protect against goals.

Feenie

Clareman wrote: »

Rogers wasn't on the panel yesterday but I agree that other players should have been tried, it was clear that we were being destroyed in the centre of the pitch BUT we only hit 1 ball into the edge of the square which resulted in the goal, it was clear that the Limerick full back line was shakey, why didn't we target them with long balls by passing the middle?

We brought on 4 subs yesterday, Shanagher at half time, Mccarthy for Reidy after 56, McMahon after 64 and Cunningham after 70. The only 1 of those changes which could have been considered an attempt to recover the situation was Mccarthy, at that stage we were a busted flush and should have made more changes to try to compete in the centre but we seemed happy to continue to do what we were doing to protect against goals.

Ideally Brian would have went with this for Limerick because of how much we need to target that centre:
McCarthy-O'Connor-Mcinerney
Kelly-Malone
Ryan-Fitzgerlad-Shanager

Clareman

I haven't seen the full stats from yesterday but the start of our problem was our half forwards, not only could we not secure our own puck out but any clearances from our backs were being returned easily or was just put over the bar, this combined with our midfield being pulled back to cover the half backs meant that Limerick were pretty much unmarked from their own 45 to our 65.

The 1 massive positive from yesterday was we have confirmed that the best position for Tony Kelly is at corner forward and allowed roam wherever he wants, I'll admit that he frustrated me no end when he was either midfield or 11 but this role is made for him.

Feenie

Clareman wrote: »

I haven't seen the full stats from yesterday but the start of our problem was our half forwards, not only could we not secure our own puck out but any clearances from our backs were being returned easily or was just put over the bar, this combined with our midfield being pulled back to cover the half backs meant that Limerick were pretty much unmarked from their own 45 to our 65.

The 1 massive positive from yesterday was we have confirmed that the best position for Tony Kelly is at corner forward and allowed roam wherever he wants, I'll admit that he frustrated me no end when he was either midfield or 11 but this role is made for him.

Agreed, I don't know why Podge was playing there, but that raises a bigger question
where do we play podge?

Clareman

Feenie wrote: »

Agreed, I don't know why Podge was playing there, but that raises a bigger question
where do we play podge?

Podge is fine playing football so that's nothing to worry about anymore

Pogue eile

Clareman wrote: »

I haven't seen the full stats from yesterday but the start of our problem was our half forwards, not only could we not secure our own puck out but any clearances from our backs were being returned easily or was just put over the bar, this combined with our midfield being pulled back to cover the half backs meant that Limerick were pretty much unmarked from their own 45 to our 65.

The 1 massive positive from yesterday was we have confirmed that the best position for Tony Kelly is at corner forward and allowed roam wherever he wants, I'll admit that he frustrated me no end when he was either midfield or 11 but this role is made for him.

He was immense yesterday and it was a joy to watch, but is the cat out of the bag a bit now? Limerick were completely caught out by it and didn't seem to react at all. I know when Kelly is in that form hi is near unmarkable but at least make an effort to mark him, every team going forward will have a counter plan for when Kelly plays that role.

Clareman

Pogue eile wrote: »

He was immense yesterday and it was a joy to watch, but is the cat out of the bag a bit now? Limerick were completely caught out by it and didn't seem to react at all. I know when Kelly is in that form hi is near unmarkable but at least make an effort to mark him, every team going forward will have a counter plan for when Kelly plays that role.

After Cork last year I don't think it would have been a surprise for anyone but how are you supposed to counteract it?? Do you man mark him which means you're sacrificing someone and would need someone who can play from any position from corner back to midfield.

Pogue eile

Clareman wrote: »

After Cork last year I don't think it would have been a surprise for anyone but how are you supposed to counteract it?? Do you man mark him which means you're sacrificing someone and would need someone who can play from any position from corner back to midfield.

He is playing corner forward of course you mark him and how is it sacrificing someone, that is a defenders job, mark a player not space? When Kelly came out yesterday Clare were let with 2 inside forwards who cant win their own ball, two defenders in the FB line was plenty.

In yesterdays game it would have suited Limerick perfectly as all of their FB line are arguably more comfortable out the field. But for some reason they decided to leave him free.

BloodyBill

Clareman wrote: »

After Cork last year I don't think it would have been a surprise for anyone but how are you supposed to counteract it?? Do you man mark him which means you're sacrificing someone and would need someone who can play from any position from corner back to midfield.

Fact of the matter is Limerick didnt need to man mark him. They weren't willing to adjust their game plan to deal with him. Im sure if the scores were closer in the 2nd half they would have but it all became abit irrelevant.
Kelly is extremely hard to mark. He lives off breaks and reading the game so a man marker is still usually a step behind all the time. He's very quick over 5 to 10 yards. And then his touch is amazing . Still against whomever we play next he will be man marked.
Massive game next weekend for Limerick and Tipperary. The loser is out the following wkend and I think the wkend after aswell. Thats a tough ask. Still youd fancy both sides to come through the qualifiers. Id favour Limerick because of the extra game and it doesn't suit Tipperary playing Limerick. They caught a big drubbing off them last year.

Clareman

Pogue eile wrote: »

He is playing corner forward of course you mark him and how is it sacrificing someone, that is a defenders job, mark a player not space? When Kelly came out yesterday Clare were let with 2 inside forwards who cant win their own ball, two defenders in the FB line was plenty.

In yesterdays game it would have suited Limerick perfectly as all of their FB line are arguably more comfortable out the field. But for some reason they decided to leave him free.

Taking yesterdays game as an example, Kelly is named at midfield so what are Limerick to do? Tell their midfielder to mark him, them all of a sudden they have a midfielder playing corner back and a corner back playing midfield or playing 4 on the full back line, alternative do they trust players to pick him up as they go past them? IF, and that's a big IF, Clare had 2 more players doing the damage Kelly were doing they there isn't a team in the country (in my opinion) that could cope with them, but that's easier said that done. I'd imagine teams will probably take turns putting different players on Kelly and be willing to give up so many scores against him because they know we won't have that much danger in other positions.

Clareman

BloodyBill wrote: »

Fact of the matter is Limerick didnt need to man mark him. They weren't willing to adjust their game plan to deal with him. Im sure if the scores were closer in the 2nd half they would have but it all became abit irrelevant.
Kelly is extremely hard to mark. He lives off breaks and reading the game so a man marker is still usually a step behind all the time. He's very quick over 5 to 10 yards. And then his touch is amazing . Still against whomever we play next he will be man marked.
Massive game next weekend for Limerick and Tipperary. The loser is out the following wkend and I think the wkend after aswell. Thats a tough ask. Still youd fancy both sides to come through the qualifiers. Id favour Limerick because of the extra game and it doesn't suit Tipperary playing Limerick. They caught a big drubbing off them last year.

Limerick knew they had the beating of us from before the throw in, they even played against the wind in the first half safe in the knowledge that once they had the wind that they'd have the beating of us or at worse we'd have ran ourselves into the ground and they could pull away with 10 minutes to go.

letowski

I think Clare need to completely review their performance standards and improve on them if we want to be competitive against to the top teams in the country. Cork were in a similar situation a few years ago and hired Doug Howlett as a High Performance Lead to oversee a directional change in development of their players.

Clare need major S&C work done at all age groups as a start to improve performance. You see two lads on the field, Diarmuid Ryan and Kyle Hayes, both same age, same height around 6’4, but massive difference in physique. All our teams, minor, u20 and senior wilted badly in the second half and could not keep up with the pace of the game. We cannot be competitive if we can only play for 3/4 of the game.

We also need to start finding and developing players with size and athleticism that can play between the 40s. The only players I see from the minor and u20 sides that both have the hurling and those traits are Cian Galvin from the u20s and Killian O’Connor and Ian McInerney rom the u17s. Galvin could be ready to go next year, but he would only be turning 19 and is still very skinny for inter county hurling. But it’s hugely worrisome that there are literally no half forwards in the county up to senior hurling level, leaving us to convert Fitz and Ryan to play wing forward.

BloodyBill

letowski wrote: »

I think Clare need to completely review their performance standards and improve on them if we want to be competitive against to the top teams in the country. Cork were in a similar situation a few years ago and hired Doug Howlett as a High Performance Lead to oversee a directional change in development of their players.

Clare need major S&C work done at all age groups as a start to improve performance. You see two lads on the field, Diarmuid Ryan and Kyle Hayes, both same age, same height around 6’4, but massive difference in physique. All our teams, minor, u20 and senior wilted badly in the second half and could not keep up with the pace of the game. We cannot be competitive if we can only play for 3/4 of the game.

We also need to start finding and developing players with size and athleticism that can play between the 40s. The only players I see from the minor and u20 sides that both have the hurling and those traits are Cian Galvin from the u20s and Killian O’Connor and Ian McInerney rom the u17s. Galvin could be ready to go next year, but he would only be turning 19 and is still very skinny for inter county hurling. But it’s hugely worrisome that there are literally no half forwards in the county up to senior hurling level, leaving us to convert Fitz and Ryan to play wing forward.

Clare are up against counties that have vast financial resources and know how. We know Limerick and Tipp and Cork have deep pockets but they also have a broad range of skilled administrators and everything isn't concentrated in the hands of one man. They are getting further away. We need a constant source of finance...not tapping up diaspora every so often . We need proper money. I dont have the answer. We have no JP McManus. But we need one and fast

Clareman

For me there's 3 big changes that has to be made for Clare hurling to make any improvements. 1 is to stop rating players on what they could/did do but rather on what they are doing, the likes of Tipp and Kilkenny don't hold onto players for a few years because of past performances rather than how they are doing in training. 2 is to stop having so many development squads, it's gotten to the stage now that if you aren't on an under 16 development squad you aren't going to make it at minor/under 20/senior. The third change would be to go outside of Clare for our management, since the last manager from outside the county we've had

1. All star from league winning teams of the 70s
2. Sub from 95 winning team
3. Captain from 95 team
4. Selector from 95 team
5. Selector from 95 team
6. Corner forward from 95 team
7. Goalie from 95 team
8. Successful under 21 managers
9. Full back from 95 team

Outside of Gerry and Donal, every manager in the past quarter of a century has had a link to the 95 team, it was a great team and was ground breaking at the time but unless we start giving guys a second shot at the job we've exhausted that team. This isn't a bunch of hopefuls, this is a core group of 28 year olds with All Ireland medals, someone like Eddie Brennan coming in could get us a good season or 2, which in turn could allow some of the talent coming through to come through, 3 double digit defeats in 2 seasons in Munster shows that stuff isn't working.

Clareman

BloodyBill wrote: »

Clare are up against counties that have vast financial resources and know how. We know Limerick and Tipp and Cork have deep pockets but they also have a broad range of skilled administrators and everything isn't concentrated in the hands of one man. They are getting further away. We need a constant source of finance...not tapping up diaspora every so often . We need proper money. I dont have the answer. We have no JP McManus. But we need one and fast

No point in getting too involved into Clare GAA finances, but I would say that we've enough of money and finances to contest at the top level, I would say that organization is the biggest problem. Historically our best teams came from a core of clubs getting a group of players, we've also lost players due to lack of opportunities being given.

Looking at the facilities around the county, off the top of my head I'm thinking of Tulla, Clarecastle, Clare Abbey, Barefield, Flannan's, Kilmaley, Lees Road, these facilities are some of the best in the country, there in place, yes they need to be funded but they are there.