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Munroe Bergdorf dropped by the NSPCC

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    What the fuck is a transgender person doing calling someone a faggot? :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    RWCNT wrote: »

    Although I'm not a fan of Bergdorf, I think whoever put that picture together has an agenda.
    When she says things like all white people are violent racists, she's going to antagonise a lot of people who will go looking for stuff to use against her. She's like the trans version of Katie Hopkins - says ridiculous things for attention and then cries victim when she gets a negative backlash, although to be fair to Katie, she took the negative on the chin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭Bob Harris


    A Childline ambassador? Good grief. Some cognitive dissonance trying to justify that one.

    Not having a go at you Bertie but that's a term you hear an awful lot of recently.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    Dante7 wrote: »
    Well 88% of them will feel better and desist after they go through puberty. And yet some people are advocating that they should go on puberty blockers and other meds.

    Source?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Ah yes, nothing like a good old fashioned weirdo hiding in plain sight in a children's organisation.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Bambi wrote: »
    Bob Crow did sweet FA about it while he was alive. Same as Len McCLuskey and Jeremy Corbyn do now.

    They carried this scorpion and now its stinging them. **** them all. The left as a whole stopped giving a **** about ordinary working people a long time ago.

    Bob Crow grew the RMT from 50k to 85k members. He fought every step of the way for working class people, there's a reason his members have decent jobs and decent pay and conditions and pensions while the rest of us have had stagnating wages or else been pushed into precarity. He is a hero in the RMT for a reason, he fought and organised tooth and nail until the day he died and he was a warm and engaging person throughout. We need more of Bob Crow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    What the fuck is a transgender person doing calling someone a faggot? :confused:

    Because trans is not a sexual orientation.

    It's possible to be trans and homophobic at the same time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    That wasn’t the point you were making a moment ago, which was something about how the left needs to double down on the idea that revolution will deliver us to a socialist utopia where problems like gender dysphoria and transphobia will melt into air.

    I don’t know anything about Bergdorf really, and her previous interventions sound very naive at best, but someone with her background and experiences definitely has something to contribute to understanding what young people with gender dysphoria are going through.

    No the point I was making was that Bergdorf is a race baiting pain in the arse promoting division and then you jumped in with a load of nonsense about transpeople.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Cryptopagan


    FTA69 wrote: »
    No the point I was making was that Bergdorf is a race baiting pain in the arse promoting division and then you jumped in with a load of nonsense about transpeople.

    In a thread about a transgender activist being let go by a counseling service for young people, you started ranting about how the left needs to focus on the overthrow of capitalism, but I’m the one jumping in with a load of irrelevant nonsense. Ok.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    Because trans is not a sexual orientation.

    It's possible to be trans and homophobic at the same time.

    That makes absolutely no sense. He would once have been a gay man assuming he's attracted to men.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That makes absolutely no sense. He would once have been a gay man assuming he's attracted to men.

    Don't chief. It's not worth it. Trust me.

    "Abandon all logic ye who enter debate about gender dysphoria".


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That makes absolutely no sense. He would once have been a gay man assuming he's attracted to men.

    "He" feels as if "he" was a "she" but was born in the wrong body. Therefore "he" was always a "she" even though biologically "he" will always be a "he".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    Some sick fu***rs out there. Not to mention the people defending them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Bob Crow grew the RMT from 50k to 85k members. He fought every step of the way for working class people, there's a reason his members have decent jobs and decent pay and conditions and pensions while the rest of us have had stagnating wages or else been pushed into precarity. He is a hero in the RMT for a reason, he fought and organised tooth and nail until the day he died and he was a warm and engaging person throughout. We need more of Bob Crow.


    Who was the evil bossman that Bob Crow was shaking down for money?
    The taxpayer aka The worker

    Who was he holding to ransom with tube strikes ?
    The worker

    The trade union movement is dead because the only area their hustle still works in is the public sector thanks to the willingness of politicians to piss taxpayers money up against a wall to keep them quiet

    The left does not give a f**k about the worker. Only their own sacred cows.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Autecher wrote: »
    These are the ones that seem to be the most talked about,. The pic I uploaded is quotes from arguments she has had online with people. More in the linked tweet.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/bettytastic/status/1138738868528848897


    D82c9qiXoAEenXP?format=jpg
    What a scumbag. And Owen Jones et al still defend her. Plus she didn't have her role removed because she's trans... that'd hardly make sense when it was known she was trans when appointed.

    Some of the insults she used would be used by some outraged by her though. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    What the fuck is a transgender person doing calling someone a faggot? :confused:

    It's rife. Ask some lesbians ...and google the cotton ceiling ...which refers to womens knickers ! Specifically lesbian and bi women, who are bullied for not accepting people with penises as partners .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    "Munroe Bergdorf, the NSPCC and the failure of the media.

    It’s exam season, so here’s a test, suitable for anyone interested in how the media and public conversation work in 2019.

    Here is a sequence of events:

    1. A charity involved in the safeguarding and welfare of children appoints a celebrity ambassador.
    2. It emerges that the celebrity has a history of asking children in emotional distress to contact them online. This appears to contradict the charity’s safeguarding guidance, which is that children should not share personal information with strangers online.
    3. It emerges that the celebrity has a history of posing for pictures for publication in sexualised clothing and poses, including for Playboy.
    4. Issues 2 and 3 are raised online by some supporters of the charity, who suggest they will withdraw financial backing for the charity in protest at the appointment.
    5. A journalist asks the charity if it is still happy to work with the celebrity, given the celebrity’s background and the prospect of financial backers withdrawing support.
    6. The charity announces that it will no longer work with the celebrity.
    7. The charity says that is stopped working with the celebrity because the celebrity’s actions were ‘in breach of our own risk assessment and undermine what we are here to do.’


    Now, given that sequence of events, which of the following would best describe media coverage that follows:

    A) Media outlets report the story under headlines along the lines of ‘Child safety charity sacks celebrity ambassador who broke safety rules and undermined its work.’

    B) Media outlets run stories and commentary reporting the celebrity’s dismissal but failing even to mention the reason for that dismissal (breaching rules around child safety) and accusing those who raised concerns about the celebrity’s appointment of hateful prejudice. Several single out the female journalist mentioned in point 5, questioning her motives and her right to speak.

    The answer is A, right? I mean, this is 2019, not 1979. Child safety is well-understood and valued, as is the importance of an environment where concerns about the breach of the relevant rules can be aired freely: no one would try to silence whistleblowers, journalists or anyone else who raised concerns about the messages sent to and examples set for vulnerable children, would they? And shouting down women who ask questions isn’t acceptable any more, is it?

    Well, actually the answer is B.

    This is, if you haven’t followed it, the case of Munroe Bergdorf, appointed and then dismissed as an ambassador for the NSPCC, which operates Childline.

    To be crystal clear about this, the board of the NSPCC dismissed Bergdorf because it judged that her actions breached its standards relating to child protection and would actually undermine the work of the charity (i.e. the protection of children).

    NSPCC guidance to parents is that they should tell children not to contact and share personal information online with people who are not known to them:

    ‘Explain that it isn’t easy to identify someone online. People aren’t always who they say they are, so don’t share personal information. If it’s someone who genuinely knows your child, they shouldn’t need to ask for personal information online. Tell your child that if they’re in any doubt they should talk to you first.’

    Munroe Bergdorf has, on more than one occasion, used social media channels to encourage young people to contact her to discuss their personal struggles and worries.



    In a public statement, the NSPCC said that it dismissed her because of such statements. It said:

    ‘When appointing an ambassador we are required to consider whether the relationship supports our ability to safeguard children and be influential in safeguarding children. The board decided an ongoing relationship with Munroe was inappropriate because of her statements on the public record, which we felt would mean that she was in breach of our own risk assessments and undermine what we are here to do. These statements are specific to safeguarding and equality.’

    Bergdorf has not retreated from those statements, telling the Guardian that she sees nothing wrong in encouraging children to message her ‘as a friend to turn to’. (Bergdorf is 31.) As far as I can see, she has not yet addressed the NSPCC’s point about her online conduct ‘breaching’ its guidelines. She says she has been unfairly treated and dismissed because she is transgender.

    In any other context, this would a simple and uncontroversial thing for any media outlet to cover: ‘Celebrity sacked by child safety charity for undermining child safety rules’ would be how I’d expect most journalists to frame the story. Or perhaps ‘Celebrity sacked by child safety charity says she did nothing wrong.’

    Yet at the time of writing, most of the media outlets who have covered this story have not done so. Some have not even reported the NSPCC statement that contains the central fact of this matter, that Munroe Bergdorf was dismissed by the charity for ‘undermining’ its work.

    The Guardian managed to produce an entire video interview with Bergdorf without even asking about the charity’s stated reason for her dismissal. The same piece quotes from that NSPCC statement, but omits the central reason Bergdorf was dismissed.

    The BBC meanwhile has run at least one story online and carried a fairly extensive interview with Bergdorf, discussing at some length her view that she has been unfairly treated by the NSPCC and in which she claims she was the subject of a ‘campaign’ aimed at her removal from her NSPCC role.

    Despite devoting time and resources to this story, the BBC has not, however, reported the NSPCC statement I quote above – the statement that sets out the charity’s reasons for dismissing her.

    The BBC has however found time to mention the journalist who asked the NSPCC a question about Bergdorf’s appointment, at point 5 in my timeline above. That journalist is Janice Turner of the Times. She’s a friend of mine and a writer I admire, so I’m not pretending to be objective here. But it is objectively true that she has been showered with personal abuse on Twitter and elsewhere over this matter.

    Here, you may shrug and say, ‘well, that’s Twitter for you’. But the mistreatment of Janice Turner goes rather further here, and takes in some frankly culpable behaviour by supposedly responsible media outlets.

    The BBC, the Guardian and the Independent have all, by implication, presented the mere fact of a journalist asking questions as some sort of campaigning action. This is not a trivial matter. In this, they are contributing to the dismal trend of treating journalistic inquiry and expression as fair game for attack: see Donald Trump and sadly, Boris Johnson’s press conference this week for examples.

    Spin-doctors and heavy-handed politicians have long sought to characterise the act of asking questions as a form of political participation that opens the questioner up to challenge and attack. That’s bad enough, but it is frankly heart-breaking to see respected professional media platforms putting a target on a journalist’s back because she asked a question.

    Some went further still. I think it is at least arguable that several media outlets have defamed Janice Turner.

    For instance, the Independent: ‘a campaign was led by anti-trans fanatic Janice Turner.’

    Also, QX Magazine: ‘Attacks like Janice Turner’s are putting people in direct physical danger.’

    This is a woeful state of affairs that should trouble anyone who thinks journalists should be able to ask questions and express opinions without abuse and harassment.

    Such abuse can easily exert a serious chilling effect on journalism. I don’t think this will silence Janice Turner: she’s too tough for that, and she’s supported by a strong editor and a big paper.

    But why should she need to be tough, need that support? And I know for certain that there are other journalists who avoid covering the sort of issues she does, for fear of abuse.

    I’ll end this miserable tale with a final exam question:

    Fact 1: Munroe Bergdorf was sacked by a child safety charity because the charity said she undermined its child safety work. She has since been lionised and feted, treated as a victim of injustice.

    Fact 2: Janice Turner sent a single tweet to ask the charity a question about Munroe Bergdorf’s appointment, an appointment the charity has now accepted was inappropriate and mistaken. Janice Turner has since been vilified, abused and defamed.

    Question: what are the differences between Munroe Bergdorf and Janice Turner that might explain the different ways in which they have been treated?"

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/06/munroe-bergdorfs-sacking-and-the-failure-of-the-media/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Did you get permission to copy an entire article from a British newspaper?
    Yeah, like that's the takeaway. :rolleyes:

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,182 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Generally speaking if you want to work and interact with children in the general public you have to be a certain type of person with boundaries around your life and behavior.

    You can't really have working with children as your side gig and porn star/prostitute as your day job. As a college professor this might be fine. A primary school teacher mmm nope.

    Particularly in this day and age where everything can be looked up.

    And the right person can be a transperson or a gay person. Just the RIGHT transperson etc for a job with children.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Did you get permission to copy an entire article from a British newspaper?

    Anal Retentive fundamentalist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Generally speaking if you want to work and interact with children in the general public you have to be a certain type of person with boundaries around your life and behavior.

    You can't really have working with children as your side gig and porn star/prostitute as your day job. As a college professor this might be fine. A primary school teacher mmm nope.

    Particularly in this day and age where everything can be looked up.

    And the right person can be a transperson or a gay person. Just the RIGHT transperson etc for a job with children.

    Exactly, though it must be stressed Monroe had to go because of violating policy not sideline gigs.

    That she was considered at all was a mistake.

    Nasty Individual.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Glass fused light


    Generally speaking if you want to work and interact with children in the general public you have to be a certain type of person with boundaries around your life and behavior.

    You can't really have working with children as your side gig and porn star/prostitute as your day job. As a college professor this might be fine. A primary school teacher mmm nope.

    Particularly in this day and age where everything can be looked up.

    And the right person can be a transperson or a gay person. Just the RIGHT transperson etc for a job with children.

    What's the harm of having boundries, you sound like poor Andy at Great Western Railways porn shaming for not allowing adult or children to sex shop on a public train wifi. (< WTF :rolleyes:)



    PS the shopper was on the way to a select committee.
    PPS that means that they are "important".


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    I'm beginning to think a lot of these people who virtue signal may have **** in their closet they're over-compensating for.

    For example, I regularly see outspoken "male feminists" who turn out to be rapists or abusers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Danzy wrote: »
    Anal Retentive fundamentalist.

    thats a pretty homophobic comment


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Glass fused light


    OMM 0000 wrote: »
    I'm beginning to think a lot of these people who virtue signal may have **** in their closet they're over-compensating for.

    For example, I regularly see outspoken "male feminists" who turn out to be rapists or abusers.

    Yep, but it's screaming transphobia and discrimination when a female refuses to consent to wax someone's pubic hair.

    :eek::eek: NI is lucky it's only arguing over icing a cake.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    Yep, but it's screaming transphobia and discrimination when a female refuses to consent to wax someone's pubic hair.

    :eek::eek: NI is lucky it's only arguing over icing a cake.

    The definitions of bigotry and discrimination have really been diluted recently.

    They've changed from actual bigotry and discrimination to having a different opinion which might hurt feelings.

    For example, I don't think parents should be allowed decide their young child is transgender unless there's a very strong medical reason (two sets of genitals, strong hormone imbalance, etc.). Parents should not be allowed to willy nilly decide to put their kids on hormone blocking drugs.

    Am I a bigot for having this opinion? Many people would think so... but if they knew me they'd know I don't care about transgender stuff as long as you're an adult and you fully understand what you're getting yourself into.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    OMM 0000 wrote: »
    I'm beginning to think a lot of these people who virtue signal may have **** in their closet they're over-compensating for.

    For example, I regularly see outspoken "male feminists" who turn out to be rapists or abusers.

    Well that’s true of all societies. Whenever there’s a moral code people who transgress the moral code privately are often the most public defenders of it.

    Also I do notice a fair bit of misogyny creeping into the pro trans debate from the bearded whatsnots. Women need to suck it up if they are uncomfortable with penises in once safe female spaces. Lesbians better get to like dick.

    Then there’s the fact that while much of the public criticism of extreme trans ideology is from men, like glinner, the verbal and physical attacks are on terfs. Which means, in general, women.

    It’s like the bearded wokes were anti women all along and hiding it behind a veil of pseudo feminism.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Shock and horror that a member of a section of society which has form for advising children to leave their families for "sparkle" families is removed from a child safety position.

    Even more shocking is how fast the transphobic narrative was ramped up, it would seem child safety takes a back seat depending on your sexual orientation in the mind of some (much like priests in Ireland).

    Then the icing on the cake is the guy who hired them is probably a little dodgy themselves.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Bambi wrote: »
    Who was the evil bossman that Bob Crow was shaking down for money?
    The taxpayer aka The worker

    Who was he holding to ransom with tube strikes ?
    The worker

    The trade union movement is dead because the only area their hustle still works in is the public sector thanks to the willingness of politicians to piss taxpayers money up against a wall to keep them quiet

    The left does not give a f**k about the worker. Only their own sacred cows.

    Unions do give a toss about workers in fact. Yes, it’s unfortunate that the only viable unions are in the public sector, but that’s not the fault of the public sector unions.


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