Renault Zoe heavy refresh nearly here.

rivegauche

Should have LED lights, much improved interior and dashboard, 136ps motor, 5 wheel bolts per wheel, marginally better drag coefficient, probably 50kwh battery, CCS and 22kw charging, lane keep assist, traffic sign recognition, dynamic cruise control. Range should be around 400km as opposed to current 41kw 300km, front park sensors and maybe automated parking.

Looks like it will be the best supermini sized EV so based on your budget the cars to have are Citigo iV, Zoe, ID3, Model3 and then you are up in to the luxury brands.

revealed next monday.

Gumbo

rivegauche wrote: »

Should have LED lights, much improved interior and dashboard, 136ps motor, 5 wheel bolts per wheel, marginally better drag coefficient, probably 50kwh battery, CCS and 22kw charging, lane keep assist, traffic sign recognition, dynamic cruise control. Range should be around 400km as opposed to current 41kw 300km, front park sensors and maybe automated parking.

Looks like it will be the best supermini sized EV so based on your budget the cars to have are Citigo iV, Zoe, ID3, Model3 and then you are up in to the luxury brands.

revealed next monday.

Manufacturers clutching at straws if they quote that in an updated version of their car :eek:

rivegauche

Any manufacturer which uses 5 bolts needs 5 bolts to handle the extra power and torque. They don't do it for sport.

Gumbo

rivegauche wrote: »

Any manufacturer which uses 5 bolts needs 5 bolts to handle the extra power and torque. They don't do it for sport.

I had cars with more power using a 4 bolt set up.

rivegauche

from 0 rpm?

Gumbo

rivegauche wrote: »

from 0 rpm?

No, mainly from 5800RPM.
Point still stands. If a manufacturer has to advertise that they have changed form 4 stud to 5 stud in their facelift car then its a crap update.

rivegauche

No it doesn't stand. there is a hell of a difference between accelerating on a wheel which is already spinning and on one which is stationary.

Gumbo

rivegauche wrote: »

No it doesn't stand. there is a hell of a difference between accelerating on a wheel which is already spinning and on one which is stationary.

Didn't make a difference in the years of ownership of my cars, over 200bhp and not one, yes not one problems with wheels with 4 studs.

Anyway, point still stands, for a manufacturer to highlight a 4 stud to 5 stud change as part of their promotion of a facelift car is laughable.

You go buy your newly released Zoe with 5 studs :pac:

All you 4 stud Zoe owners, watch your car value drop like a stone :eek:

rivegauche

kceire wrote: »

Didn't make a difference in the years of ownership of my cars, over 200bhp and not one, yes not one problems with wheels with 4 studs.

Anyway, point still stands, for a manufacturer to highlight a 4 stud to 5 stud change as part of their promotion of a facelift car is laughable.

You go buy your newly released Zoe with 5 studs :pac:

All you 4 stud Zoe owners, watch your car value drop like a stone :eek:

At this moment in time a new Zoe looks like the replacement for my current Zoe come time to change in early 2021.

I forgot to mention likely rear disk brakes too not that the car needs them.

Manufacturer has highlighted nothing about it yet. There is a press embargo until Monday.

Gumbo

rivegauche wrote: »

At this moment in time a new Zoe looks like the replacement for my current Zoe come time to change in early 2021.

I forgot to mention likely rear disk brakes too not that the car needs them.

Manufacturer has highlighted nothing about it yet. There is a press embargo until Monday.

My point is that if a manufacturer has to illustrate these things as a mid life cycle refresh (facelift or LCI) then its laughable.

Rear discs.....my 1998 Civic VTi had them.
4 stud....My 1997 Integra Type R had them.

The number of studs is really valid information in markets where you need to change to winter tyres as you know that you'll need to get new set of wheels for this car if you're upgrading from the previous Zoe.

To me it the new Zoe seems like a very useful upgrade with the power upgrade, CCS charging and better interior. On paper it seems like a serious contender in the class if the price is right.

rivegauche

kceire wrote: »

My point is that if a manufacturer has to illustrate these things as a mid life cycle refresh (facelift or LCI) then its laughable.

Rear discs.....my 1998 Civic VTi had them.
4 stud....My 1997 Integra Type R had them.

I repeat that Manufacturer has highlighted nothing about it yet. There is a press embargo until Monday. These are observations from early photos.

22kw type2 charging and CCS means it will be a better car for travelling a distance than similar sized competitors.

Matqo

Some spy shots of Zoe from motor1 (Heavily camouflaged)





Edit: Leaked photo from yesterday

NIMAN

Looks the same?

Do you still have to rent the battery?

unkel

No, you've been able to buy the Zoe in Ireland for quite some time with the battery owned. Cheapest model lists at €25k

Absurd for a very spartan supermini, but I reckon you could probably get a large discount on it if you tried as a cash buyer. You can in the UK.

Mancomb Seepgood

NIMAN wrote: »

Looks the same?

Do you still have to rent the battery?

Battery rental isn't available on new Zoes in Ireland now,and I can't see it being reintroduced.

rivegauche

https://pushevs.com/2019/06/13/leaked-information-on-the-new-renault-zoe-neo/

Details on battery and range.
This car will probably offer better range and specifications than an entry level ID3 while being cheaper. It will be a good option for those who don't need the space of an ID3.

They've found information on a 30kw battery pack too which is either going to be offered on an entry level Zoe or a Kwid EV or an electric powered twingo.

Mickeroo

Motor: 100 kW

On-board charger: 22 kW

DC fast charging: 50 kW via CCS

Range (WLTP): 380-390 km (236-242 miles)

Battery capacity: 52-54 kWh

If that stays the same price point as the current model it will instantly be the best value for money EV on the market imho (provided the size of the car isn't an issue for you).

unkel

Most people who are buying a spartan supermini car do not need to have 400km range. For most it will just be a city car.

What we urgently need is €15k EV supermini (with say a 27kWh battery). Not a €25k EV supermini with a 54kWh battery.

Mancomb Seepgood

Currently driving a Zoe with the 41kwh battery pack and I find the battery capacity sufficient for nearly all the driving I do.I'd be perfectly happy if they left the battery as is in the hope of dropping the price - CCS charging is the big selling point here. Not that I'm likely to be changing car anytime soon.

Mike9832

Prices in Spain supposed to be €500 more thsn current Zoe

Be amazing news if that turns out to be true

How much is base Zoe here?

€25,000?

50kWh for €25,000 would be impressive

Sure Tesla SR+ for €50,000 only has that size battery

ELM327

50kW on CCS would be disappointing, 25% of the speed now offered in the model 3.
Industry standard is 100kW capable (ie ~72kW, or the max of CCS1.0 @ 200a)

Mike9832

ELM327 wrote: »

50kW on CCS would be disappointing, 25% of the speed now offered in the model 3.
Industry standard is 100kW capable (ie ~72kW, or the max of CCS1.0 @ 200a)

For €25,000 who cares

Tesla is bloody €50,000

Car for the masses lol Elon

Really disappointed with Tesla

Why do I have to be poor

unkel

If it is the same battery chemistry as the current battery, the 50kWh won't get you very far. Winter range in 41kWh Zoe is similar to 28kWh Ioniq, a car two sizes bigger. That's pretty pathetic.

Tesla Model 3 on the other hand is (with Ioniq) the most efficient EV around. Particularly at motorway speeds. Current Zoe maxes out at 125km/h. That's what superminis did 50 years ago :rolleyes:

Mike9832

unkel wrote: »

If it is the same battery chemistry as the current battery, the 50kWh won't get you very far. Winter range in 41kWh Zoe is similar to 28kWh Ioniq, a car two sizes bigger. That's pretty pathetic.

Tesla Model 3 on the other hand is (with Ioniq) the most efficient EV around. Particularly at motorway speeds. Current Zoe maxes out at 125km/h. That's what superminis did 50 years ago :rolleyes:

Its supposed to be 136bhp

Alot quicker than Ioniq

rivegauche

unkel wrote: »

If it is the same battery chemistry as the current battery, the 50kWh won't get you very far. Winter range in 41kWh Zoe is similar to 28kWh Ioniq, a car two sizes bigger. That's pretty pathetic.

Range on cars is similar or better in Zoe up to about 110kmph(average)
Zoe is a supermini, Ioniq is a Compact class car. There is no class of car between supermini and compact.
https://pushevs.com/2019/02/10/renault-zoe-ze-40-full-battery-specs/

unkel wrote: »

Tesla Model 3 on the other hand is (with Ioniq) the most efficient EV around. Particularly at motorway speeds. Current Zoe maxes out at 125km/h. That's what superminis did 50 years ago :rolleyes:

135kmph actually.
Are you trying to talk down other EVs so as to support the value of your own EV car with a smaller sounding battery pack making entry in to a Model 3 more affordable for you?

Joseph SEE

unkel wrote: »

If it is the same battery chemistry as the current battery, the 50kWh won't get you very far. Winter range in 41kWh Zoe is similar to 28kWh Ioniq, a car two sizes bigger. That's pretty pathetic.

Tesla Model 3 on the other hand is (with Ioniq) the most efficient EV around. Particularly at motorway speeds. Current Zoe maxes out at 125km/h. That's what superminis did 50 years ago :rolleyes:

The battery chemistry is irrelevant. A kWh is a kWh. The difference between the two cars is aerodynamic, motor and inverter efficiencies.

At 50kWh it will have more than enough range to suit 99% of the population.

adunis

Whilst the Ioniq is super efficient
Zoë beats the pants off Ioniq on range,
Top speed is capped at 140kph on Zoë btw not 125.

unkel

rivegauche wrote: »

135kmph actually.

Officially it's 135km/h but iirc I saw a test where the GPS max speed was 125km/h. Did a quick google, but can't find it now, so I can't back up my claim. Ok then, it's 135km/h unless someone comes up with proof otherwise

Still, I learned to drive 35 years ago. My instructors car was a first generation early 80s Nissan Micra (K10) with a 1l engine. I just looked it up and its top speed was 145km/h. A typical base model supermini from the early 70s (so nearly half a century ago) could do 135km/h

I stand by my claim that those maximum speeds are a bit pathetic today

rivegauche wrote: »

making entry in to a Model 3 more affordable for you?

I was firmly looking into buying a Model 3, had my reservation down I think in mid 2017 iirc. But later that year we got a dog, so a saloon like Tesla Model 3 is out of the question now. I got my deposit back a long time ago.

rivegauche wrote: »

Are you trying to talk down other EVs

No. And I actually like the Zoe. Might buy one for my daughter in a few years time. But yes, I am fierce critical of all EVs, including my own

rivegauche wrote: »

so as to support the value of your own EV

There's no need. Ioniq already is the lowest depreciating car you can buy in this country

rivegauche

The speedometer on my car reached 141kmph today on a stretch of road with no speed restrictions. At a displayed 72kmph it is doing 70kmph according to a GPS.
Official figures show 135kmph for the R110 and unlike an astmathic 1 litre car I have instant torque to pull out in to the overtaking lane without having to worry any more than any other motorist about high speed vehicles bearing down on me.
The Zoe has 40km more range and more torque(7)
It also has a 22kw charger which is immensely more useful than a fast charger for a standard which is quite rare.
In this game of Top Trumps the Zoe does quite well for itself against an Ioniq but both lose hands down to the refreshed Zoe which will be announced tomorrow.

BTW if you decide to travel at about 135kmph with your small battery you'll be lucky to reach your next fast charger. I can travel farther at 135kmph and will have no problems finding a 22kw charger any where along my route.

unkel

No need to tell me the benefits of EVs in general and of Zoe in particular. You're preaching to the converted. I own an EV and I might yet buy a Zoe too

rivegauche wrote: »

I can travel farther at 135kmph

I don't think so. Ioniq might have a very small battery and is a lot heavier than Zoe. But it also has an extremely efficient drive train and the best aerodynamics of any EV (shared with the Tesla S and 3)

I'd say at 135km/h GPS speed (or whatever the maximum speed the Zoe can do), Ioniq will get further. If not in summer, then almost certainly on a cold day in winter.

But my general point is that Zoe is too expensive. And that the world does not need a 50kWh supermini, even if they can sell it at €25k (which remains to be seen). The world does need a very cheap EV supermini. €15k or thereabouts.

rivegauche

unkel wrote: »

No need to tell me the benefits of EVs in general and of Zoe in particular. You're preaching to the converted. I own an EV and I might yet buy a Zoe too



I don't think so. Ioniq might have a very small battery and is a lot heavier than Zoe. But it also has an extremely efficient drive train and the best aerodynamics of any EV (shared with the Tesla S and 3)

I'd say at 135km/h GPS speed (or whatever the maximum speed the Zoe can do), Ioniq will get further. If not in summer, then almost certainly on a cold day in winter.

But my general point is that Zoe is too expensive. And that the world does not need a 50kWh supermini, even if they can sell it at €25k (which remains to be seen). The world does need a very cheap EV supermini. €15k or thereabouts.

That is conjecture on your part and you'll certainly be suffering range anxiety much earlier as you won't be sure as to whether a fast charger is available.
If a long journey is planned in a Zoe then you time your charging to end just before you set out on the journey and the batteries will be nice and warm and the interior will be pre-heated too.

unkel

rivegauche wrote: »

That is conjecture on your part

Which bit is? You quoted my whole post!

rivegauche

"I'd say" and "I don't think so" = conjecture.

I measured top speed today and at 140kmph on dashboard it was showing 137 to 138kmph on GPS.
The average of about five 0 to 100kmph tests was just over 10 seconds.
I can easily do the roughly 200km round trip at motorway speed to the nearest large city on a single charge.
I certainly am not paying the headline price for this car or battery rental.

Your constant negativity toward this car which is a technically highly competent car will leave other people passing over this car when the bargains start appearing and you'll drive them to Hyundais or Nissans where they'll be left standing around waiting to charge because they can't find a free fast charger.

unkel

rivegauche wrote: »

"I'd say" and "I don't think so" = conjecture.

I'd nearly accept the challenge of a 135km/h GPS speed range test next winter. See who goes furthest

rivegauche wrote: »

Your constant negativity toward this car

But I keep telling you I actually like the Zoe! It's just overpriced for what it is. So are pretty much all EVs now, the updated Ioniq included. The only exception really imho are the Tesla S and X now after the huge price cut.

Mike9832

rivegauche wrote: »

"I'd say" and "I don't think so" = conjecture.

I measured top speed today and at 140kmph on dashboard it was showing 137 to 138kmph on GPS.
The average of about five 0 to 100kmph tests was just over 10 seconds.
I can easily do the roughly 200km round trip at motorway speed to the nearest large city on a single charge.
I certainly am not paying the headline price for this car or battery rental.

Your constant negativity toward this car which is a technically highly competent car will leave other people passing over this car when the bargains start appearing and you'll drive them to Hyundais or Nissans where they'll be left standing around waiting to charge because they can't find a free fast charger.

Thats a good post man

What Zoe do you have the R90 or R110 41kWh

Read the R110 is pretty nippy

Have driven most EVs at this stage besides Zoe and i3

How much did you get Zoe 41 for?

Read some getting them for €25,000 on the road and low interest pcp

Its not a bad price with the low interest

beauf

unkel wrote: »

... It's just overpriced for what it is. So are pretty much all EVs now, the updated Ioniq included. ....

Why are they so over priced? Because of the new models around the corner?

Ning

I was looking forward this new zoe, but as a first gen zoe owner, I may wait until they have a 60kwh battery model with ccs 100kw to justify trading up.

beauf

unkel wrote: »

....
Still, I learned to drive 35 years ago. My instructors car was a first generation early 80s Nissan Micra (K10) with a 1l engine. I just looked it up and its top speed was 145km/h. A typical base model supermini from the early 70s (so nearly half a century ago) could do 135km/h

I stand by my claim that those maximum speeds are a bit pathetic today
...

Those cars were unstable at those speeds. Skinny tires and arodynamics of a sail. We had the K10 and K11. High speed cruising was not their forte.

If you are planning regular high speed travel I'm not sure a supermini would be the ideal car.

However as a city car in traffic most of it's life....

unkel

beauf wrote: »

Why are they so over priced? Because of the new models around the corner?

Because the manufacturers are maximising profits (and pocketing much of the Irish €10k grant). Because they can.

Not until they are punished more for producing cars that cause emissions, will they make more and more affordable EVs. This is still a few years away unfortunately...

ELM327

Mike9832 wrote: »

For €25,000 who cares

Tesla is bloody €50,000

Car for the masses lol Elon

Really disappointed with Tesla

Why do I have to be poor

For 25000 the Ioniq charges 1.5 times faster and probably has similar motorway range with much more practicality.


Poor? I thought you bought your house with cash and were looking at petrol new Civic? Neither of those are moves I would associate with someone claiming 'poor'


48k model 3 is approx 700/month with 6k down. Hardly expensive compared to a new 340i or c class 43.

ELM327

beauf wrote: »

Those cars were unstable at those speeds. Skinny tires and arodynamics of a sail. We had the K10 and K11. High speed cruising was not their forte.

If you are planning regular high speed travel I'm not sure a supermini would be the ideal car.

However as a city car in traffic most of it's life....

I remember in my misspent youth maxing out a mark 2 fiesta (4 speed) on the N7 (as it was then). By god if I had any fillings then they would have fallen out. That car was not happy above 50-55 mph and it was the same for other superminis of the time.

adunis

I bought new Zoë Dyn nav for 25000,with a super trade in allowance and 0% hp for 5 years,looks the same price to me as a well spec'd diesel city car.
I.e I don't accept the overpriced arguement..

Mike9832

ELM327 wrote: »

For 25000 the Ioniq charges 1.5 times faster and probably has similar motorway range with much more practicality.


Poor? I thought you bought your house with cash and were looking at petrol new Civic? Neither of those are moves I would associate with someone claiming 'poor'


48k model 3 is approx 700/month with 6k down. Hardly expensive compared to a new 340i or c class 43.

It's still poor in my book.

It's a 180k house normal house ( worth now ), nothing special

That model 3 price is not bad

Is that pcp, I could only see hire purchase on the site for 1000e a month

700e I could afford ( just )

ELM327

Mike9832 wrote: »

It's still poor in my book.

It's a 180k house normal house ( worth now ), nothing special

That model 3 price is not bad

Is that pcp, I could only see hire purchase on the site for 1000e a month

700e I could afford ( just )

767/mo on hire purchase (turns out it's a 7k down amount, I was confusing the 'after savings' price, which I wish they would not show)

rivegauche

Mike9832 wrote: »

How much did you get Zoe 41 for?

monthly cost is so low that it'd only annoy the rest of you.
These Zoes which are being sold or rather leased at good prices will be off lease in a few years time and hitting the pre-owned market. 2 years in my case.

And here is the new Zoe:
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/renault/zoe/107083/new-2019-renault-zoe-arrives-with-longer-range-and-extra-tech

ELM327

I still think there will be a lot of interest in the old model Zoe ,even with the new one out

rivegauche

press pack for launch here:
https://media.group.renault.com/global/en-gb/search/results?mediatypes=19

unkel

135bhp/245NM, 0-60 in sub 10s

Pity they kept the torque that low. Could have turned it into a very nippy hot hatch with 350NM for a 0-60 in about 7s - that would certainly appeal to the younger buyer who'd fork out several grand for the acceleration / hot hatch status, same as they have done for hot hatches for decades. Maybe a chance of a RenaultSport high torque version later on?

Mike9832

unkel wrote: »

135bhp/245NM, 0-60 in sub 10s

Pity they kept the torque that low. Could have turned it into a very nippy hot hatch with 350NM for a 0-60 in about 7s - that would certainly appeal to the younger buyer who'd fork out several grand for the acceleration / hot hatch status, same as they have done for hot hatches for decades. Maybe a chance of a RenaultSport high torque version later on?

If it's €25,000 I won't mind

Bargain for a 50kWh battery

Mike9832

adunis wrote: »

I bought new Zoë Dyn nav for 25000,with a super trade in allowance and 0% hp for 5 years,looks the same price to me as a well spec'd diesel city car.
I.e I don't accept the overpriced arguement..

No that's a decent price for a 41kWh car these days and super interest rate

Well done