Renault Zoe heavy refresh nearly here.

Mickeroo

unkel wrote: »

135bhp/245NM, 0-60 in sub 10s

Pity they kept the torque that low. Could have turned it into a very nippy hot hatch with 350NM for a 0-60 in about 7s - that would certainly appeal to the younger buyer who'd fork out several grand for the acceleration / hot hatch status, same as they have done for hot hatches for decades. Maybe a chance of a RenaultSport high torque version later on?

There was a 460bhp prototype built a few years back: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-geneva-motor-show/hot-renault-zoe-e-sport-gets-460bhp

Mickeroo

Are these supposed to be available for 192 or are they coming 2020?

Mike9832

Mickeroo wrote: »

Are these supposed to be available for 192 or are they coming 2020?

September is what I read

Really interesting as currently Zoe40 is priced well at €25,000 and 0% interest

Wonder what Zoe50 in 136ps trim will go for

They are doing Zoe50 in 110ps trim too so that one won't be too cheap I presume

Nice range for a small car

Mike9832

ELM327 wrote: »

767/mo on hire purchase (turns out it's a 7k down amount, I was confusing the 'after savings' price, which I wish they would not show)

They need to get pcp to sell more here VW style

HP is too much per month

Mike9832

Same range as €42,000 Leaf62

385km vs 390km Zoe

https://pushevs.com/2019/06/17/new-renault-zoe-is-officially-unveiled-with-ze-50-battery/#comments

Both charge at 50kW too ( as faster charging Chademo doesn't exist )

Zoe is looking good

Now it's just the price

Don't disappoint again

unkel

Be a good deal at €25k on the road. But I guess it will be more like €30k

Even at €25k it's a lot to be paying for a supermini when you can get other superminis (made by the same company) for just €10k

Mike9832

unkel wrote: »

135bhp/245NM, 0-60 in sub 10s

Pity they kept the torque that low. Could have turned it into a very nippy hot hatch with 350NM for a 0-60 in about 7s - that would certainly appeal to the younger buyer who'd fork out several grand for the acceleration / hot hatch status, same as they have done for hot hatches for decades. Maybe a chance of a RenaultSport high torque version later on?

Corsa and Peugeot 200EV have warm hatch acceleration

Sub 8s to 60

€31,000 is steep though

With that acceleration and 100kW charging probably better value than Zoe if it comes it at €28,000 it's rumoured to be

Just takes one car with a 50/60kWh battery priced competitively to throw the market

So frustrating

unkel

Frustrating is the right word alright.

Mike9832

unkel wrote: »

Frustrating is the right word alright.

I like that even though you own an EV

You don't defend the excessive prices

So many posters here defend them

Like they've been brainwashed

Find it very strange

unkel

I actually do defend the excessive prices

We live in a capitalist world. Car makers maximise profits (and so they should) given a conditional framework of legislation.

The framework is too slow, the EU (and our government) have set the pace too slow. The car makers are doing nothing wrong here. That's what makes it so frustrating.

rivegauche

Mike9832 wrote: »

Corsa and Peugeot 200EV have warm hatch acceleration

Sub 8s to 60

€31,000 is steep though

With that acceleration and 100kW charging probably better value than Zoe if it comes it at €28,000 it's rumoured to be

Just takes one car with a 50/60kWh battery priced competitively to throw the market

So frustrating

look at this map and tell me that a 100CCS/slow type2 combo is a better option than a 50kW CCS/22kw type2 option when so few CCS chargers are available.
https://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/ecars/charge-point-map

The Corsa-e with extras in Germany is 33k. A bare Corsa-e is 30k.
The Zoe is reportedly going to be the same or almost same price as the current car.
The Zoe has 15% more range than a Corsa/Peugeot.
Paying at public charging sports which is what is going to happen soon means that you want the range to get home and charge inexpensively so the extra 50 to 60km is the difference between putting your hand in your pocket or not.

My Zoe is faster than the manufacturer claims it to be.

Mike9832

rivegauche wrote: »

look at this map and tell me that a 100CCS/slow type2 combo is a better option than a 50kW CCS/22kw type2 option when so few CCS chargers are available.
https://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/ecars/charge-point-map

The Corsa-e with extras in Germany is 33k. A bare Corsa-e is 30k.
The Zoe is reportedly going to be the same or almost same price as the current car.
The Zoe has 15% more range than a Corsa/Peugeot.
Paying at public charging sports which is what is going to happen soon means that you want the range to get home and charge inexpensively so the extra 50 to 60km is the difference between putting your hand in your pocket or not.

My Zoe is faster than the manufacturer claims it to be.

Not a chance Zoe50 is the same price as current car

Would bet you anything on that

It will be very close to Corsa/Peugeot price

I would love to be wrong here, but i have seen it so many times now

I agree with you btw 50kW/22kW is a great option at the right price

Joseph SEE

unkel wrote: »

I actually do defend the excessive prices

We live in a capitalist world. Car makers maximise profits (and so they should) given a conditional framework of legislation.

The framework is too slow, the EU (and our government) have set the pace too slow. The car makers are doing nothing wrong here. That's what makes it so frustrating.

Yes, batteries cost money. Anywhere between 200 to 300 Euro per kWh at the pack level.

Perhaps Tesla are under 200 Euro per kWh but it's hard to know as Musk has a tenuous relationship with the truth and Panasonic need to make a profit.

alanowx

According to Renault the new ZOE50 will gain 125 km of range in approx 1 hour while connected to street 22kW CP.
That's useful recovery while enjoying your afternoon coffee or trip to shops which should be more than enough to see you home.

Came across this PDF. (32Mb in size. Hit Enter when new tab opens to force download popup window)

https://media.group.renault.com/global/en-gb/download/21227905/presskit/pdf

alanowx

If you have any difficulties getting the above pdf, here is Renault Groups Media page in english

https://media.group.renault.com/global/en-gb/groupe-renault/media/presspacks/21227905/nouvelle-renault-zoe-le-plaisir-de-rouler-100-electrique-prend-une-nouvelle-dimension?utm_campaign=newsalert_96178&utm_medium=email&utm_source=media.renault.com

and under the main photo you will see the link "Download the press kit in PDF"

Note also at bottom of page are some nice interior/exterior close up photos when zoomed to max size.

Markcheese

I suppose battery availability (as well as price will affect the price of the car), if they can only get their hands on 10000 battery packs a year, then they can't make any more cars than this, so they'll price accordingly, sure they might be able to sell double that number (and potentially have more profit) at 25grand than at 30 grand.. But if the batteries ain't available...

rivegauche

prices in Germany announced.
Basically the same as before.

bottom of the range costs €22k which will really impact Up!/Citigo/Mii/Smart sales as the base battery size is 41kw now and has a 110ps motor with 316km range
battery rental still in operation in German market not that it matters to me but a monthly charge of €74 is not a major obstacle.
Top of the range is €28k for a vehicle that will be much better specified than a VW ID 3 with a much longer range.
I see no reason to buy a e208 or e-corsa now.

This car still has 22kw and 50kw charging and more range than e208, e-corsa and ID3.

If I had to place an order for a replacement for my Zoe now then this is the car for me.

https://www.renault-presse.de/main

EUROPE'S MOST POPULAR ELECTRIC CARS COMES FROM 21,900 EURO

NEW RENAULT ZOE: MORE RANGE AND MORE PERFORMANCE AT THE OLD PRICE

The new Renault ZOE can be ordered from the end of July 2019 at a price of 21,900 Euro2. Thus Renault offers the future entry-level version LIFE Z.E. 40 with the 41 kWh battery and the 80 kW / 108 hp electric motor R110 at exactly the same price as the previous base model with the 22 kWh battery. The prices for the ZOE Z.E. 50 with the newly developed, even more powerful 52 kWh battery start at 23,900 euros.

The completely updated Renault ZOE, Europe's and Germany's best-selling electric car, makes electric mobility even more attractive: the new ZOE LIFE Z.E. 40, starting at 21,900 euros, already achieves a range of up to 316 kilometers in the realistic WLTP test cycle4. The ZOE LIFE Z.E. 50 with 52 kWh battery capacity costs from 23,900 euros and allows up to 390 kilometers range

Even more comfort is offered by the equipment level of the ZOE EXPERIENCE in conjunction with the electric motor R110 and the Z.E. 50 lithium-ion battery, available from 24,900 euros. With the more powerful electric motor R135 with 100 kW / 135 hp, the ZOE EXPERIENCE is available from 25,900 euros.

As a new top version Renault offers the ZOE INTENS with the electric motor R135 and the Z.E. 50 lithium-ion battery for the price from 27,900 euros.

ZOE customers can also buy the lithium-ion battery of their electric vehicle. The price difference between battery recharge and battery purchase amounts to 8,090 Euro regardless of the capacity. The purchase price includes a warranty of eight years or 160,000 kilometers and, during the stated warranty period, a guaranteed capacity of at least 66 percent of the initial charge capacity.

SINCE 2013 MODEL FOR AFFORDABLE ELECTRIC MOBILITY

With the ZOE, Renault made electric mobility suitable for everyday use affordable for a broad range of buyers as early as 2013. Since the model was designed from the outset exclusively for the electric drive, pioneering e-technology innovations could be realized in a mass-produced vehicle for the first time. By the end of May 2019 Renault sold about 150,000 copies. In 2018, the ZOE achieved a market share of 12.8 percent for electric vehicles in Europe with 40,000 new registrations. In Germany, the Renault ZOE is also the best-selling electric car: Since the market launch, more than 22,000 customers opted for the electric small car.

KCross

Battery rental is a big obstacle. Makes it much harder to sell.

So, if I'm reading what you posted correctly the base price of a Zoe 50 is €23900+€8090= €31990 and thats in Germany with their lower VAT rate and before we get the Paddy pricing added on. Not cheap by any means

It sounds like it will be about the same price here as the entry model ID.3 after incentives. Not sure I'd pick an entry model Zoe over an entry model ID.3 at the similar price level.... we'd need to see more specs and prices I think.

rivegauche

Not when you are leasing which is a huge element of the market. Battery rental doesn't matter to me myself and in fact is a benefit in the way the monthly calculation is calculated in my lease.

unkel

Leasing is an extremely expensive way of owning a car. Fair enough if you can afford it, and you have the pleasure of a brand new car every three years, but it wouldn't be for me

Didn't Mad_Lad pay €22.5k in lease terms over 2.5 years for a Leaf 24kWh after which he didn't even own any equity in the car?

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

Leasing is an extremely expensive way of owning a car. Fair enough if you can afford it, and you have the pleasure of a brand new car every three years, but it wouldn't be for me

Didn't Mad_Lad pay €22.5k in lease terms over 2.5 years for a Leaf 24kWh after which he didn't even own any equity in the car?

Yes but that was a silly purchase

rivegauche

It is a company car. It isn't consumer leasing. It is a two year lease period which is heavily subsidized by my employer with reduced BIK tax.

Mike9832

How much here for base model based on German prices

€27,000?

Not bad for a 50kWh battery and it's got more range than Leaf60

charlieIRL

Mike9832 wrote: »

How much here for base model based on German prices

€27,000?

Not bad for a 50kWh battery and it's got more range than Leaf60

I priced one last week and it was €29K for the outgoing model.

Mike9832

charlieIRL wrote: »

I priced one last week and it was €29K for the outgoing model.

That must be a top spec one?

Base version is 25k

charlieIRL

Mike9832 wrote: »

That must be a top spec one?

Base version is 25k

Was a dynaminique model. Nothing special on it.

McGiver

The biggest plus is that it has both CCS albeit only 50kW as well as capable of doing 22kW AC, very good for Esb car chargers which are almost all 22kW, quite a few of them and should be free to use at least a year or so. Handy to get 40% top up while having a coffee or shopping when out and about.

unkel

rivegauche wrote: »

It is a company car. It isn't consumer leasing. It is a two year lease period which is heavily subsidized by my employer with reduced BIK tax.

Company car EV with zero BIK is of course a great deal for the employee

gunnerfitzy

McGiver wrote: »

The biggest plus is that it has both CCS albeit only 50kW as well as capable of doing 22kW AC, very good for Esb car chargers which are almost all 22kW, quite a few of them and should be free to use at least a year or so. Handy to get 40% top up while having a coffee or shopping when out and about.

I would also think it likely that when charging for AC does come in, the pricing will be far more favourable than that for DC fast charging.

Plus hotels, shopping centres etc, many of whom have 22kW charge points, will continue to be free for some time.

Mickeroo

Fully charged having a look at the car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYBz_5H2jdw

Mike9832

Mickeroo wrote: »

Fully charged having a look at the car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYBz_5H2jdw

If it's the same price it's a massive step forward, starting from €25,000 and more range than Leaf 62kWh costing €40,000

Performance with 136bhp is decent too, 0 - 60, 9 secs or so, perfectly adequate for a small car

Interior looks really good, nice tablet, even the Leaf 62 at €40,000 doesn't have one

Really hope base model comes in very close to €25,000

390km wltp range for that price is a game changer imo

Mancomb Seepgood

I really like the look of it,though I don't have my ZE40 a year yet and am not in a position to change even if I wanted to.CCS charging is a game changer, it's annoying to be locked out of the Easygo and Ionity chargers that are popping up.

ELM327

It's much better than the leaf, at 25k with 22kW AC and 50kW CCS I could live with that vs the 15k more needed for a non-3 phase AC leaf with 50kW chademo

Mike9832

ELM327 wrote: »

It's much better than the leaf, at 25k with 22kW AC and 50kW CCS I could live with that vs the 15k more needed for a non-3 phase AC leaf with 50kW chademo

Leaf with all it's issues like excessive degradation, rapidgate, non CCS etc has given EV's a bad rep for long enough

It's good to finally see it being pused aside with proper efforts from autogiants Hyundai, Peugeot, Renault, VW, Kia now having arrived/arriving

Markcheese

Does renault still use the same battery packs as Nissan?

Round Cable

Markcheese wrote: »

Does renault still use the same battery packs as Nissan?

No, they use LG cells.

rivegauche

https://pushevs.com/2019/02/10/renault-zoe-ze-40-full-battery-specs/

https://pushevs.com/2019/06/17/new-renault-zoe-is-officially-unveiled-with-ze-50-battery/

discussion of the ZE50 batteries in the chat at the bottom of the article.

ELM327

Markcheese wrote: »

Does renault still use the same battery packs as Nissan?

I think that was only for the Fluence ZE?

Old diesel

One for the test drive list for sure.

Let's call it 26 k to buy a 52 kwh EV that can be bought like a normal car with no 12 month wait, test drive before you buy.

Active cooling and should be a 140 mile car in winter even with motorway use.

How it will drive is the thing though - but I dont think anyone has ever considered the Zoe a particularly crap drive and the new one is probably tweaked.

Mike9832

Old diesel wrote: »

One for the test drive list for sure.

Let's call it 26 k to buy a 52 kwh EV that can be bought like a normal car with no 12 month wait, test drive before you buy.

Active cooling and should be a 140 mile car in winter even with motorway use.

How it will drive is the thing though - but I dont think anyone has ever considered the Zoe a particularly crap drive and the new one is probably tweaked.

It's got decent power now with 136bhp, that was always the complaint with Zoe, old ones had 89bhp, that a big jump.

charlieIRL

Mike9832 wrote: »

It's got decent power now with 136bhp, that was always the complaint with Zoe, old ones had 89bhp, that a big jump.

for town / city driving the old (2019) Zoe is fine, even on the motorway it ok.

I've been using our work one for the last 3 days to get a proper feel for an EV and even at 89hp, i got on fine. Mixture of driving on N roads / Motorway. One thing i really noticed is that it really doesn't like going over 100kph!! Even the dash goes from green to purple to let you know you are consuming a lot of battery!!

rivegauche

110ps version is happier on the autobahn

Old diesel

Mike9832 wrote: »

It's got decent power now with 136bhp, that was always the complaint with Zoe, old ones had 89bhp, that a big jump.

I was thinking more of things like.....

Seats.....

Ride over bumps....

Motorway composure......

Those are things a Zoe might struggle with vs eCorsa/e208.

charlieIRL

Old diesel wrote: »

I was thinking more of things like.....

Seats.....

Ride over bumps....

Motorway composure......

Those are things a Zoe might struggle with vs eCorsa/e208.

One of two things I really don’t like about the Zoe - the ride over a bumpy road is terrible. I know they probably have to put stiffer suspension in to deal with the battery weight but it’s very solid over bad roads.
Second is the lack of toys, rear parking sensors and that’s nearly it.

rivegauche

charlieIRL wrote: »

One of two things I really don’t like about the Zoe - the ride over a bumpy road is terrible. I know they probably have to put stiffer suspension in to deal with the battery weight but it’s very solid over bad roads.
Second is the lack of toys, rear parking sensors and that’s nearly it.

I don't consider mine poorly equipped with nice features like keyless entry/start, reversing camera, full leather, heated seats, auto lights and wipers, folding mirrors and a bose audio system with subwoofer.
The only thing I'd really like is a glass roof. A Colleague has an identical car in same colour except with armrest and 17" Alloys but I purposely avoided those extras. The roads around here aren't rough so I don't notice the hard ride that much and I am on 16" wheels which have more give in them.

Mike9832

How does this translate to here anyone?

Under €27,500 after grants?

390km car

https://pushevs.com/2019/09/02/new-generation-renault-zoe-prices-revealed-in-france/

charlieIRL

Mike9832 wrote: »

How does this translate to here anyone?

Under €27,500 after grants?

390km car

https://pushevs.com/2019/09/02/new-generation-renault-zoe-prices-revealed-in-france/

I doubt very much it will be that cheap here but we can always hope. Cheaper compeitition is always good for the consumer.

adunis

UK pricing anounced starting at 25500 stg,battery owned.
Ze4.0 pricing was about4k cheaper I think

Ryath

Full Uk pricing. Not too dear to go for higher powered version too. Only £550

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/09/uks-2020-renault-zoe-priced-from-25670-or-18670-with-battery-lease/

Looks a lot better than the old one. Pity it's not a new platform it's looks Edit much smaller than the new Corsa and 208 Actually it's not! The shape makes it look much smaller than it is.

rivegauche

Austrian price list and specifications available here

This says that the 41kw and 52kw versions use the same battery but it is software limited.

It still claims a .75 CDa value which is signigicantly higher than a e208 i.e. worse.
I looked at the specifications and it has a slightly different track and bumper length so it might be just a touch more aerodynamic but not to an appreciable level.

The cheapest one with 15" wheels will have a 316km wltp value with 22kw chameleon and the top one will have around 385 to 390km with ccs fast charging at 50kw thrown in.

The cheapest one in Austria is well enough specified with things like keyless entry and Android Auto and LED lights. The interior is certainly less controversial than the ID.3.

I don't need a big car so at the moment this seems like my best upgrade option when it comes time to change my car. I can easily afford the top trim with a few extras but the base model is very well priced for what you get.