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Do software engineers really make that much?

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Comments

  • #52
    Computer Science Student
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 225 ✭✭Computer Science Student


    Yeah the standard seems to be a 4 year vesting period with a 1 year cliff, vesting quarterly/monthly thereafter. So you get a quarter of it if you leave after a year - which is what I would recommend doing several times at the start of your career until you land in that 90k role!


  • #53
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,881 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Computer Science Student wrote: »
    The way it works when you join a new company is you get stock options + 10k salary bump. So if you keep moving companies to the right roles, you can get up to 90k within a few years of leaving college plausibly enough.

    Too many regular moves will also send alarm bells ringing for many prospective employers. The period between taking someone on and them being productive in active projects can be substantial as can the cost and delays involved with replacing an active member of a project. In my opinion the strategy you're describing is well known to employees and likely to reduce your long term prospects.


  • #54
    GreeBo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,465 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    smacl wrote: »
    Too many regular moves will also send alarm bells ringing for many prospective employers. The period between taking someone on and them being productive in active projects can be substantial as can the cost and delays involved with replacing an active member of a project. In my opinion the strategy you're describing is well known to employees and likely to reduce your long term prospects.

    If I see multiple, short term moves its the first thing I am asking in an interview and you better have good reasons.
    Once or twice can be explained, any more and its clear that you are chasing money and I will probably expose a shallowness in your knowledge and contributions to previous projects once I get you on the whiteboard.


  • #55
    DellyBelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,366 ✭✭✭DellyBelly


    Fccwontletmebe wrote: »
    Have a look at what other companies are paying on irishjobs.ie

    32K isn't that bad for a grad really but I'd probably start looking.

    It isn't bad maybe outside Dublin but if you are in Dublin that is a very poor wage. I'd definitely be out looking for something that would be paying nearly double that...


  • #56
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Company culture either rewards loyalty, permanence or it encourages mobility.

    I always stay way too long, and I know I should have moved around far more. When I did, it mostly worked out better.


  • #57
    Creamy Goodness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,584 ✭✭✭✭Creamy Goodness


    DellyBelly wrote: »
    It isn't bad maybe outside Dublin but if you are in Dublin that is a very poor wage. I'd definitely be out looking for something that would be paying nearly double that...

    There's no where that's paying 64k for grads, except for the very exceptional cases (I'm talking maybe 1-2 jobs and they'd be highly specialised and in Facebook/Google).


  • #58
    WhiteMemento9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    Creamy Goodness wrote: »
    There's no where that's paying 64k for grads, except for the very exceptional cases (I'm talking maybe 1-2 jobs and they'd be highly specialised and in Facebook/Google).

    He was probably answering the question inflow of reading the thread. The guy he was referring to isn't a grad, he has 19 months of experience post-graduation and is on 32k.


  • #59
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 54,834 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    BUt you would generally lose your stock options when you move, right? That's generally the whole purpose of options - the long term incentive to stay with the company. You have to stay for the five year vesting period to get any benefit from the options.


    Or have things change from my day?
    beauf wrote: »
    They used to release X amount per year in my day. So if you walked you lost any shares that hadn't been released. Haven't been in a company that offered shares in a long time.
    Computer Science Student wrote: »
    Yeah the standard seems to be a 4 year vesting period with a 1 year cliff, vesting quarterly/monthly thereafter. So you get a quarter of it if you leave after a year - which is what I would recommend doing several times at the start of your career until you land in that 90k role!

    Stock options are different to stocks that vest over x years.

    With Stock options, it just gives you the option to buy stock at a certain price. So in 5 years time, if the stock price shoots up, you might decide to exercise your options and buy stock at the price you were given options at, and make a profit. The stock broker might pay for the stock for you in exchange for a cut of the earnings. But until you buy the stock, you own nothing.

    With vesting stocks, you actually gain and own a percentage of the total value each year. Generally your employer buys them for you and you pay tax on them when they're bought then CGT on the profit minus allowance when sold.

    I personally haven't ever seen stock options as a thing here.


  • #60
    14ned
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 768 ✭✭✭14ned


    Firstly, thanks for clarifying people with confusion, and if people want to know more, Revenue describes all things and their tax treatments at https://www.revenue.ie/en/additional-incomes/employment-related-shares/index.aspx
    awec wrote: »
    I personally haven't ever seen stock options as a thing here.

    Unless the options are for a publicly traded company, I can see it being extremely hard to issue options under current Revenue tax rules because you cannot accurately calculate the tax due to Revenue if the pricing isn't transparent. Hence I suspect options are harder than alternatives, in most situations.

    Niall


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  • #61
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    When I use to got them they'd be for US stocks. You'd be dealing with a US broker. So you have to make a return here on them. Long time ago now.

    Whats changed in the rules?


  • #62
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 54,834 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    beauf wrote: »
    When I use to got them they'd be for US stocks. You'd be dealing with a US broker. So you have to make a return here on them. Long time ago now.

    Whats changed in the rules?

    You still make a return here.

    In my experience, the BIK tax when you earn the shares in the more common, vesting model is handled automatically and will show up on your payslip. You have to make a CGT return when you sell them.

    With options though you are not liable for any tax until you actually exercise the option. Until you actually exercise them they're worthless. If you buy them at no cost, you will pay BIK on the full value of them. If you get them at a discount, you pay BIK on the difference between the price you paid and the market rate.

    Then you have to submit a CGT return as usual if you sell them.

    There are advantages/disadvantage to both models, but I think the biggest downside to options is if the value drops to below your guaranteed price they are totally worthless until the price rises above it again.


  • #63
    14ned
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 768 ✭✭✭14ned


    awec wrote: »
    In my experience, the BIK tax when you earn the shares in the more common, vesting model is handled automatically and will show up on your payslip. You have to make a CGT return when you sell them.

    With options though you are not liable for any tax until you actually exercise the option. Until you actually exercise them they're worthless. If you buy them at no cost, you will pay BIK on the full value of them. If you get them at a discount, you pay BIK on the difference between the price you paid and the market rate.

    Foreign share options would fall under the Unapproved Share Options Scheme, whose tax treatment is described at https://www.revenue.ie/en/additional-incomes/employment-related-shares/unapproved-share-options.aspx.

    That tax treatment doesn't match what you said the tax treatment is, as far as I can tell. Are you referring to how the tax treatment once was?

    Niall


  • #64
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 54,834 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    14ned wrote: »
    Foreign share options would fall under the Unapproved Share Options Scheme, whose tax treatment is described at https://www.revenue.ie/en/additional-incomes/employment-related-shares/unapproved-share-options.aspx.

    That tax treatment doesn't match what you said the tax treatment is, as far as I can tell. Are you referring to how the tax treatment once was?

    Niall

    It does match, no? The long option has a bit extra but the gist of it is pretty much the same.


  • #65
    14ned
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 768 ✭✭✭14ned


    awec wrote: »
    It does match, no? The long option has a bit extra but the gist of it is pretty much the same.

    True, for options whose date is within seven years from now, what you described is essentially right.

    However one must be extremely careful if the options have a date more than seven years from now. You would be advised to seek the advice of a tax consultant so you can structure your affairs. For example, you might want to become non-domiciled, so you only pay tax on income or capital remitted into the State at the moment of remittance.

    Niall


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