How bad or good is alcohol for society

Muahahaha

Potential-Monke wrote: »

In my 9 years serving as a Garda I reckon 90% of the people I arrested were either drunk or there was drink involved. I've never arrested anyone because they were so stoned they were a danger to themselves or others, or because they did something criminally illegal while stoned. It just doesn't happen.

I always wonder what is the sheer cost to the State from alcohol related crimes. Id imagine it is huge, you need Gardai to arrest them, then some get legal aid then you need judges to convict them. It must cost thousands just to prosecute a single person for acting the maggot when pissed.

Sometimes for entertainment value I read the court reporting from Tralee District Court. Its a bit of a wild town and case after case that comes up involves alcohol. Much of it is pure comedy value like eejits drunk and streaking naked through the town, sleeping on the roofs of cars or in peoples gardens, that type of carry on. The defence is always that they were drunk and they get off lightly. But in the mean time it costs the State millions per year to prosecute these crimes, it s a huge waste of money and of Garda resources. Instead of €100 into the poor box they should be fixed with the entire cost of prosecuting them in the first place.

ArchXStanton

Snotty wrote: »

Having worked in the industry for more years than I should have, it's a curse of a drug that ruins life's all over the country, if it was banned tomorrow, I would rejoice.

I'd have to agree from working in the industry as well, visiting up to 15 bars a day throughout Ireland with sober eyes is actually an eye opener and depressing

suicide_circus

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Wow, relax. If you read my posts you'll see that I said that 90% of people I arrested had alcohol involved. Nowhere did I say it was 90% of all crime. But I was a frontline Garda, so the crimes I mainly dealt with most likely had alcohol involved (burglaries, assaults, public order, rape, criminal damage, to name a few).

And I would love to give you facts on that, but I no longer have access to Pulse so I can't (and couldn't anyway, they're super secretive about it and all requests have to go through HQ).

You're the one who said 'Alcohol has nothing to do with that, nothing to do with muggings, break-ins,', and that's more sweeping than my own experience percentage of the cases I dealt with. You're literally saying alcohol is not involved in any crime ever. That's way less believable than my own figure.

Edit: And I'm fully aware than alcohol doesn't have to be the cause, but it's a mitigating factor, especially when in court you hear 'my client is not normally like that, but had consumed excess alcohol at that time', which means that their own defence is saying alcohol was to blame. So which is it? It's a mitigating factor or it's the cause, either way alcohol caused someone to do something they (allegedly) wouldn't normally do. Which reads that alcohol is a major part of the cause of these crimes. No? Let me add to that that crimes are committed due to alcohol, ie: the people robbing drink.

i dont understand the burglaries part? people getting pissed and committing burglaries? thats surprising

McCrack

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Me! During the rougher times, I was drinking a litre of rum a night. That made me question my habits eventually. Subsequently quit and became a stoner, best decision yet! Why did I become a stoner? Because of anxiety, and it's the only natural remedy for it imo, the alternative is to take a concoction of chemicals created by a company who just wants to make profit and has potential side effects of 'increased suicidal thoughts'. Yeah, great drug for someone with anxiety!

In case anyone doesn't know, I quit being a Garda too, also one of the best decisions of my life, should have done it well before then

You do realise weed causes anxiety and exacerbates it and it certainly does not relieve it long term. It makes the condition worse and a circle of dependency develops

We should be asking ourselves why people feel the need to go out and get pissed so often. It’s all linked to bigger issues in society.

Long hours at work, long hours commuting, wages barely cover rent, can’t afford a home, insurance costs through the roof.

If these situations improved, people might not feel the need to drink themselves silly.

But those issues are too difficult to solve, so blame alcohol.

JupiterKid

Well, I can only speak from experience as a recovering alcoholic who was in rehab a number of times and struggled - most of my 30s was a virtual write-off and it very nearly sent me to an early grave and destroys the lives of countless others.

I've begun to turn a corner but it has been very difficult at times...

I do believe alcohol use is in decline as a new generation find healtheir alternatives to the pub and that is IMO only a good thing. Alcohol has been a curse on this country.

I would thoroughly recommend Scottish author Any Liptrot's book The Outrun - it details her long battle with alcohol living in London and her new sober life in the Orkney Islands.

How a highly intelligent and beautiful young woman who seemed to have it all in her early 20s ended up a pariah and living in squalour. An excellent read!

Blueshoe

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We should be asking ourselves why people feel the need to go out and get pissed so often. It’s all linked to bigger issues in society.

Long hours at work, long hours commuting, wages barely cover rent, can’t afford a home, insurance costs through the roof.

If these situations improved, people might not feel the need to drink themselves silly.

But those issues are too difficult to solve, so blame alcohol.

What about those who don't work. Drinking cheap cans everyday.
A kick up the hole and frog marched to the job centre is what they need

Welfare handouts are ruining the country

McCrack

odyssey06 wrote: »

People are alive every day due to booze too, that's what the all risks mortality studies tell us - moderate drinkers live longer.
The biggest problem our health service faces isn't alcohol.
It's that people are living longer. Someone who drops dead instantly at 65 from a heart attack saves the HSE a fortune and the government too in pension payments.

Our district courts are full of cases - full stop.
Muggings, break-ins shoplifting...
There are lots of cases linked to drugs in our courts, not because of what someone did on drugs but what happens between rival drug gangs to control the trade.

Alcohol has nothing to do with that, nothing to do with muggings, break-ins,

But ultimately I reject the premise of the question is alcohol good or bad for society as not a verifiable proposition.

Not correct. I work in a professional capacity in the courts.

People with alcohol dependacy regularly come before the courts for thefts and burglary from shops etc and also thefts and robberies from the person

Alcohol is definitely problematic for a lot of people. It can wreck havoc on lives and tear families and relationships apart. However it absolutely can be taken responsibily. I've cut back myself but I still enjoy a drink. There are plenty of people similar to myself, a glass of wine with dinner, maybe a few pints at the weekend. I have little time for pearl clutching in the manner of "ban alcohol it's evil". That to me is far too simplistic.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Alcohol is definitely problematic for a lot of people. It can wreck havoc on lives and tear families and relationships apart. However it absolutely can be taken responsibily. I've cut back myself but I still enjoy a drink. There are plenty of people similar to myself, a glass of wine with dinner, maybe a few pints at the weekend. I have little time for pearl clutching in the manner of "ban alcohol it's evil". That to me is far too simplistic.

Banning alcohol is not what this thread is about. It's an honest look at alcohol and what should be done. Banning it would make it more appealing and a luxury. We should however deglamorise it and ban advertising as that is seen not only by adults but influential children and teenagers who would go on to be the adults of tomorrow with the same issues

JupiterKid

Criticising or questioning our national love affair with alcohol is like criticising the Catholic church 50 years ago.

Deeply ingrained into our cultural psyche and will get widespread backlash and mass denial but we can already see the rural pub culture is dying on its feet and generational tastes for entertainment are changing and beginning to move away from alcohol.

In 30 or 40 years time Ireland will have a very different drinking landscape, mark my words.

Bobblehats

I can’t drink; I really shouldn’t I have a few modest drinks then next thing you know I’m swinging out of the rafters with a bottle of spirits. Remember that lucozade ad?

Blueshoe

Blueshoe wrote: »

What about those who don't work. Drinking cheap cans everyday.
A kick up the hole and frog marched to the job centre is what they need

Welfare handouts are ruining the country

Fully agree with you there. Those people are beyond help.
Working people though have too little free time. It’s a big problem.

How many people waste a portion of their annual leave on necessities like attending funerals, appointments etc

gctest50

McCrack wrote: »

Not correct. I work in a professional capacity in the courts.

People with alcohol dependacy regularly come before the courts for thefts and burglary from shops etc and also thefts and robberies from the person

They're just thieving, robbing scumbags who happen to drink also

Plently of people have a good few drinks and don't go " will i get a chips now or maybe a pizza or maaaybe go break into someones house and steal what i can"


Plenty drive have and drive cars, then you've this :

Should we put a stop car adverts because of that ?

Strumms

You need to look at WHY people drink....

Is it...

A social thing...
A sleep aid...
A personality aid...
A destress tool...
Another reason...

Often for people is a combination of the above, which is VERY dangerous. If it’s a social thing, grand, if it’s any of the other it’s an issue.

Bobblehats

A good time. High octane rock n roll

JohnnyFlash

I’m a beer drinker of considerable note, and I think there should be a ban on sponsorship and advertising by alcohol companies. Minimum unit pricing is also a positive development, and will encourage people to drink less. ‘Da Gubberment’ crew hate the idea of it, which is a sign it’s a good idea.

McCrack

gctest50 wrote: »

They're just thieving, robbing scumbags who happen to drink also

Plently of people have a good few drinks and don't go " will i get a chips now or maybe a pizza or maaaybe go break into someones house and steal what i can"


Plenty drive have and drive cars, then you've this :

Should we put a stop car adverts because of that ?

Perhaps however with some people the compulsion to drink leads to shortage of money and/or need for alcohol which make that person commit offences and the usual ones are thefts and robbery from the person and in some cases burglary..which doesn't have to be burglary as commonly understood. It can arise in business premises during working hours entering a restricted area

Recent case I had was a middle aged female alcoholic who snatched a purse from an elderly lady on the street, completely alcohol related. This woman had alcohol issues going back 30 years

gctest50

McCrack wrote: »

.........

Recent case I had was a middle aged female alcoholic who snatched a purse from an elderly lady on the street, completely alcohol related. This woman had alcohol issues going back 30 years

She's just a scumbag, plenty of them just sit down somewhere with an empty "Mc D" cup and don't resort to attacking elderly ladies


Where is the scumbag now ? back on the street ?

McCrack

gctest50 wrote: »

She's just a scumbag, plenty of them just sit down somewhere with an empty "Mc D" cup and don't resort to attacking elderly ladies


Where is the scumbag now ? back on the street ?

True but in that instance she did what she did because of her alcohol dependency issues. She took the purse, took the money, handed the purse back to the lady and went down to the supermarket to buy alcohol

I'm not justifying the behaviour I'm just explaining it

gctest50

McCrack wrote: »

...........

She took the purse, took the money, handed the purse back to the lady and went down to the supermarket to buy alcohol ...........

Ah it's ok then, that sound like a lovely encounter of an evening



Where's the scumbag now ? back on the street ?

Greyfox

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think this is a fact at all. Many, many people get off on the buzz of having great chats with friends or acquaintances. These conversations can be stimulated by ideas, by passion for various things or just a simple love for friends and enjoyment of their company.

Also, regarding your other point, if anything I think the alcohol-is-the-centre-of-society culture here is an impediment to getting to know very many people new to Ireland. Our "drinking culture" is understandably not something most foreigners aspire to be part of.

It is a fact, its obvious to everyone living in Ireland who looks around them. why do you think nearly everybody drinks? You can have the craic without alcohol but it's much better with a few drinks, the proof is in how popular it is. Alcohol is part of our culture and I'm proud of that. Besides the nice scenery the best thing about Irish people is the fact that were great craic and we wouldn't be such great craic without alcohol. Yes people overdo it but 80% of the Irish population don't. If you go to a wedding and someone overdo's it then the night could be ruined for some people. If you go to a wedding and nobody drinks alcohol then you went to a sh**e wedding.

completedit

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I’m a beer drinker of considerable note, and I think there should be a ban on sponsorship and advertising by alcohol companies. Minimum unit pricing is also a positive development, and will encourage people to drink less. ‘Da Gubberment’ crew hate the idea of it, which is a sign it’s a good idea.

Who the hell pronounces the government that way lol. Roddy Doyle u are not haha

EmmetSpiceland

completedit wrote: »

Who the hell pronounces the government that way lol. Roddy Doyle u are not haha

Ah now, C, I think we both know there’s a dribbling cohort out there who pronounce it like that.

They’d be the type who you see on here spelling “lose” as “loose” and “tat” for “that”.

The kind of people who’d complain about the “meeja”. They’re out there, C, probably closer than you think.

Greyfox

JupiterKid wrote: »

Alcohol has been a curse on this country.

It's far more complicated than that. If everything is going well in your life alcohol can be part of the best memories you have in life, it can bring people together. The problem is if you have an issue in your life or don't have other hobbies and you turn to alcohol it can lead to a dangerous place.

KM792

I drink because I like how it slows you down,almost like a numbing effect.


I find my emotions are more intense without it,does anyone else feel like that?

BarryD2

Deleted User wrote: »

I do wonder is the alcohol the new smoking, as in people couldn't comprehend cigarettes downfall over the last 50 years when previously it was social and cool.

You do realise that 'alcohol' has been around since the year dot? Humans discovered the results of fermentation thousands of years ago. It's part and parcel of human existence. Not quite the same as fags or other drugs.

killanena

I don't think drinking is good for society, but I do think banning it would be worse because people are going to get their drink regardless and it will go to criminals and gangs. It would cause more serious accidents because there would be no quality control or restrictions on ingredients, percentage etc.

Allowing it is the lesser of two evils and nothing in this world can be perfect.

Edit: I do enjoy drinking every so often but I also grew up with an alcoholic mother so have seen first hand the damage it causes.

BarryD2

BarryD2 wrote: »

You do realise that 'alcohol' has been around since the year dot? Humans discovered the results of fermentation thousands of years ago. It's part and parcel of human existence. Not quite the same as fags or other drugs.

I'm sure they didnt have the vast industrial quantities we have today. They also didnt have advertising like we do today which has exasperated the situation.

Smoking was back from the Americas, the Indians and other tribes used it but didnt abuse it. The Indians gave the Europeans smoking and the Europeans gave them alcohol.

Anyway I'll say it again I am not telling people to ban alcohol,however the glamour of it through marketing should be removed, no fancy Ads, no fancy bottles, plain bottles wouldn't be so attractive

gctest50

[Deleted User] wrote: »

...........

I'm sure they didnt have the vast industrial quantities we have today.......

Any sources fot that or should we all go with you and yer "I'm sure"


There was maybe 150 - 200 pubs in Pompeii


The Romans were almost swimming in 94 million litres of wine, used to trade it for slaves

Strumms

KM792 wrote: »

I drink because I like how it slows you down,almost like a numbing effect.


I find my emotions are more intense without it,does anyone else feel like that?

I’m the same. It would relax me. I’m more chilled, more happy. With others they are more hyper or more sleepy, more giddy and in some cases more aggressive. It’s the unpredictable nature of it that can affect us all in different ways.

Muahahaha

Greyfox wrote: »

It is a fact, its obvious to everyone living in Ireland who looks around them. why do you think nearly everybody drinks?

Thats not the case, depending on what survey you look at somewhere between 20% and 25% of the population do not drink at all. I've read before that Ireland has some of the highest rates of teetotallers anywhere in the world alongside having some of the highest consumption of alcohol in the world.
https://www.thejournal.ie/healthy-ireland-survey-3663240-Oct2017/

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The good.

Light drinking reduces risk of stroke , heart disease and diabetes.

As has been mentioned a number of times thus far on this thread, this is, in fact, untrue and yet another myth propagated by the alcohol companies and their comparatively enormous resources.

Even among educated Irish people, there is a dearth of knowledge about what drink does to the body, and this "moderation is OK" line is the most common representation of that ignorance - an ignorance compounded by a huge misunderstanding of what qualifies as binge drinking and accordingly many people who might self-identify as "moderate drinkers" are actually binge drinkers. To reiterate the latest research: people are much better avoiding alcohol altogether.

The Irish Times: 'Young Irish topped EU binge-drinking table' (October 2017):

Irish people aged 18 to 24 had the highest rates of binge drinking in the European Union, according to the Central Statistics Office (CSO).

The data, released on Wednesday, showed more than a quarter of men and more than 15 per cent of women aged 18 to 24 in Ireland engaged in binge drinking at least once a week in 2014.

Binge drinking is defined as six or more standard drinks in one session, equivalent to three pints of beer or six pub measures of spirits

So, let's be clear here: if somebody drinks 3 pints or more in one session, it is not 'moderate' consumption - they are, in fact, binge drinking unless they want to abnegate the standard medical definition and invent their own in its stead.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Very childish response imo

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I am not a child.

Seriously, this is such a remedial failure of comprehension that I'm left wondering is English your first language.

IAMAMORON wrote: »

None of his responses were valid. In particular the waffle about the RCC in the 16th century.

You seem to have read something that wasn't written.

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Finally contrasting drinking habits outside of the Pale and whiskey taxes is nonsense. Drink was the last thing on a lot of peoples minds during the 1850's.

Another failure of comprehension. The point was, clearly, that culture changes. It is benighted to claim, as far too many Irish people still do, that "It's a central part of our culture to abuse alcohol". The post was showing how drinking culture has evolved throughout the centuries. And, furthermore, a whole slew of so-called "Irish traditions" regarding alcohol can be dated no further back than the 19th century. This recurrent claim to [faux] "tradition" to justify keeping the romanticisation of alcohol at the centre of Irish public life is thoroughly nauseating. An "Oirishness" created by the marketing needs of one alcohol company in particular. That you condemn somebody who points this historical reality out as a 'puritan' is obscurantism at its finest.

fryup

Drink!

gctest50

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As has been mentioned a number of times thus far on this thread, this is, in fact, untrue and yet another myth propagated by the alcohol companies and their comparatively enormous resources.

Even among educated Irish people, there is a dearth of knowledge about what drink does to the body, and this "moderation is OK" line is the most common representation of that ignorance - an ignorance compounded by a huge misunderstanding of what qualifies as binge drinking and accordingly many people who might self-identify as "moderate drinkers" are actually binge drinkers. To reiterate the latest research: people are much better avoiding alcohol altogether.

......

You missed this from the thing you pasted in 4 times :

But the study is not the final word on the subject

JupiterKid

As a recovering alkie, I'm not going to get all sanctiomonious about people enjoying the occasional social drink, but the fact that Irish people binge drink, and the massive health and social and crime problems it causes is frankly enormous and the powerful alcohol lobby don't want the Irish public to know the true extent of the problem.

Remember, health effects of excessive alcohol use don't just include accidents and injuries and liver cirroshis, they also include cancers (many types), strokes, seizures, heart disease, diabetes, blood pressure hypertension...need I go on. For pregnant women who drink there is the added risk of Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Syndrome.

I would wager a huge huge number of relatively early deaths of Irish people -
particularly men - betwen the ages of 55 and 75 are directly or indirectly due to alcohol abuse.

Then there are the social costs - not just broken homes, shattered families, domestic violence, but also lost workplace productivity, depression and other mental health problems, lack of career advancement, educational drop out rates, poverty caused by money devoted drinking (a very big problem I believe in the decades up to the 1990s).

And that doesn't even cover the crime aspects such as violent assaults, murders and manslaughters.

Yes, I suspect the legacy of alcohol ab(use) would be a truly appalling vista to consider in this country...

gctest50

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seriously, this is such a remedial failure of comprehension that I'm left wondering is English your first language.

.

That shows a great gra for teh proper use of the Queens English so it does to be sure

[Deleted User] wrote: »

............And, furthermore, a whole slew of so-called "Irish traditions" regarding alcohol can be dated no further back than the 19th century. This recurrent claim to [faux] "tradition" to justify keeping the romanticisation of alcohol at the centre of Irish public life is thoroughly nauseating.

An "Oirishness" created by the marketing needs of one alcohol company in particular.
........

Ah, so you are upset really about Arthur Guinness and his Protestant stout giving people everywhere the "drunken Paddy Oirish" ?

That was all hundrerd of years ago and doesn't matter now though - it stuck

But still there is nothing funnier than some lad making an effort to sing rebel songs while swinging a pint of Guinness around

He may as well be waving heineken around and singing " 50 pence flute "

link to save people searching at this hour

interesting thread

might be coincidence
https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-staying-sober-is-really-hard-but-life-without-booze-is-magic-4682750-Jun2019/

IAMAMORON

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously, this is such a remedial failure of comprehension that I'm left wondering is English your first language.



You seem to have read something that wasn't written.



Another failure of comprehension. The point was, clearly, that culture changes. It is benighted to claim, as far too many Irish people still do, that "It's a central part of our culture to abuse alcohol". The post was showing how drinking culture has evolved throughout the centuries. And, furthermore, a whole slew of so-called "Irish traditions" regarding alcohol can be dated no further back than the 19th century. This recurrent claim to [faux] "tradition" to justify keeping the romanticisation of alcohol at the centre of Irish public life is thoroughly nauseating. An "Oirishness" created by the marketing needs of one alcohol company in particular. That you condemn somebody who points this historical reality out as a 'puritan' is obscurantism at its finest.

I would have gone for obfuscation here , buts that's possibly why we're different.

Just like taking a drink, sometimes it's also fine to be wrong, sometimes.

Be good, don't take it to hard and thanks for the memories. Have a drink and think about it.

kunst nugget

gctest50 wrote: »

Any sources fot that or should we all go with you and yer "I'm sure"


There was maybe 150 - 200 pubs in Pompeii


The Romans were almost swimming in 94 million litres of wine, used to trade it for slaves

Big difference between the Mediterranean countries' ability to produce alcohol back in the days of Pompeii and countries like ourselves and the Scandinavian countries. Because of the climate, wine could be made all year round in the Mediterranean, which meant that basically it was always readily available. Alcohol could only produced up in the northern countries at specific times and would not last for long so feasts of celebration revolved around drinking alcohol while it was there.

Culturally, we would still have echoes of this in our countries to this day where binge drinking is a bigger issue in the north than it is on the continent and we would see alcohol as going hand in hand with celebrations.

Greyfox

Deleted User wrote: »

So, let's be clear here: if somebody drinks 3 pints or more in one session, it is not 'moderate' consumption - they are, in fact, binge drinking unless they want to abnegate the standard medical definition and invent their own in its stead.

If I told a friend 3 or 4 pints is binge drinking he would tell me to stop been a dry sh**e and have some fun and he would have every right to give this response. Having 2 junk food meals a week instead of healty ones is much worse then 3 or 4 pints. People have to be allowed have some unhealty stuff and if you exercise regularly having 3 or 4 pints at the weekend is not going to cause any serious long term harm.

branie2

fryup wrote: »

Drink!

Girls!

kunst nugget

Greyfox wrote: »

If I told a friend 3 or 4 pints is binge drinking he would tell me to stop been a dry sh**e and have some fun and he would have every right to give this response. Having 2 junk food meals a week instead of healty ones is much worse then 3 or 4 pints. People have to be allowed have some unhealty stuff and if you exercise regularly having 3 or 4 pints at the weekend is not going to cause any serious long term harm.

I have to say, since hitting my forties, my ability to get over a session has diminished considerably to the point where I'm really not bothered drinking that much anymore. I'm probably okay with three pints but four or more and I'm going to have a headache I'm not going to shake for the rest of the following day.
3-4 pints would feel like binge-drinking to me now in a way that it never would have in my twenties or early thirties. Old age has turned me into a dry shyte.

RobertKK

Everything in moderation, know when to stop, remember you need your liver in the future. Those of us who drink may go a little wild now and again but once it is not regular...I mean I took part in a drinking game for the world cup final last year, doing shots for every goal and yellow card, not expecting much...match ended 4-2 with 3 yellow cards, I didn't drink for a while after that :pac:
I usually don't drink much, and I know which drinks are best for me in terms of the next day, very very rare I now drink enough to get a hangover. It's not worth it.

ILoveYourVibes

branie2 wrote: »

Girls!

FECK!

Seanachai

KM792 wrote: »

I drink because I like how it slows you down,almost like a numbing effect.


I find my emotions are more intense without it,does anyone else feel like that?

I'm kind of the same, it's like a break from being too sensitive, not good to become dependent on it as an anti-anxiety medicine though. One of the reasons I don't drink that much these days is I'm kind of on edge making ends meet a lot of the time and I usually only feel like drinking when I'm in good form, which may sound strange to some people.

Strumms

kunst nugget wrote: »

I have to say, since hitting my forties, my ability to get over a session has diminished considerably to the point where I'm really not bothered drinking that much anymore. I'm probably okay with three pints but four or more and I'm going to have a headache I'm not going to shake for the rest of the following day.
3-4 pints would feel like binge-drinking to me now in a way that it never would have in my twenties or early thirties. Old age has turned me into a dry shyte.

Same, to a tee, up to my early 30’s six pints and work was manageable. Four...a walk in the park. Now, it wouldn’t be almost at all. Don’t drink anymore but hangovers were ****ty. Don’t miss the headaches and disappearing energy levels. Loving the general massive improvement in overall health, endurance and energy.

Arbitrary

Snotty wrote: »

Having worked in the industry for more years than I should have, it's a curse of a drug that ruins life's all over the country, if it was banned tomorrow, I would rejoice.

Drugs are not the problem, people's poor choices are the problem.

Neames

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

FECK!

Arse!